Servants of the Holy Family

[MrDickerson]

Yes. Please pray that these Sisters be regularized, along with the SSPX Discalced Carmelite nuns. We miss them in the Carmelite family!

God bless,

Fr. Boyd, OCDS

These Sisters made be a beautiful, quality rosary that I cherish and hopefully will last for the rest of my life. I also own a CD with the Servants’ beautiful chanting and polyphony. I also don’t think they’re sede. Many people assume that any independent traditionalist group must be sedevacantist but that’s not the case.

 

[JReducation]

These Sisters made be a beautiful, quality rosary that I cherish and hopefully will last for the rest of my life. I also own a CD with the Servants’ beautiful chanting and polyphony. I also don’t think they’re sede. Many people assume that any independent traditionalist group must be sedevacantist but that’s not the case.

The Church is not saying that they are sedevacantist. They are schismatic. That’s not the same. They are in the same irregular position as the SSPX. They are good people in an bad situation.

I’m sure that you can use their rosary. There is no harm in that. We just can’t go to them for confession, because we will not receive absolution or marriage, because they do not have the faculties; therefore the marriage is invalid.

Because they are good people trying to do what is right, even if their method is incorrect, we must remember that they are our brothers and sisters and keep them in prayer. Let us not make them a scapegoat of intolerance or promote their community either. Let us speak of them and to them with respect and kindness, but tell the truth. They need to fix their situation.

That’s all we can do.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[malphono]

The Church is not saying that they are sedevacantist. They are schismatic. That’s not the same. They are in the same irregular position as the SSPX.

What seems most accurate at this point is to say that these groups are “independent” which in and of itself gives pause.

As we both said in earlier posts, the conspicuous absence of any reference to PP Benedict XVI again gives pause as to what this group is. Personally I would hesitate to say they’re in the same position as the FSSPX: the FSSPX is well known, and while its status is “irregular” the Society is certainly not sede. Whether it is actually schismatic is a question I’ll leave to PP Benedict XVI.

 

[JReducation]

What seems most accurate at this point is to say that these groups are “independent” which in and of itself gives pause.

As we both said in earlier posts, the conspicuous absence of any reference to PP Benedict XVI again gives pause as to what this group is. Personally I would hesitate to say they’re in the same position as the FSSPX: the FSSPX is well known, and while its status is “irregular” the Society is certainly not sede. Whether it is actually schismatic is a question I’ll leave to PP Benedict XVI.

Actually, if the local bishop declares them to be schismatic, that’s all that is required by the Church. The local bishop is the head of the local Church. You don’t need the Pope to declare a group schismatic. The decree is valid as long as it comes from an Ordinary, that can be a diocesan bishop or a major religious superior of an order of Pontifical Right.

The letter cited above, by the local bishop, says that they are schismatic. No further decree is necessary. The community can appeal to the Sacred Congregation for religious. Unless the decree is overturned by them, the decree stands. It comes with the authority of Ordinary powers.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[malphono]

Actually, if the local bishop declares them to be schismatic, that’s all that is required by the Church. The local bishop is the head of the local Church. You don’t need the Pope to declare a group schismatic. The decree is valid as long as it comes from an Ordinary, that can be a diocesan bishop or a major religious superior of an order of Pontifical Right.

The letter cited above, by the local bishop, says that they are schismatic. No further decree is necessary. The community can appeal to the Sacred Congregation for religious. Unless the decree is overturned by them, the decree stands. It comes with the authority of Ordinary powers.

Yes, I know, and that’s fine but I don’t see it as bearing on whether or not the Colorado groups are sedes. It seems safe to say there’s somewhat of a difference between espousing sedevacantism and simply having a feud with a local bishop. It’s not at all clear where the Coloroado groups fall, so it would seem they are at best “independent” and at worst sedes, both of which come under the schismatic category.

 

[JReducation]

Yes, I know, and that’s fine but I don’t see it as bearing on whether or not the Colorado groups are sedes. It seems safe to say there’s somewhat of a difference between espousing sedevacantism and simply having a feud with a local bishop. It’s not at all clear where the Coloroado groups fall, so it would seem they are at best “independent” and at worst sedes, both of which come under the schismatic category.

The word independent would not fit here, because all relgious orders of Pontifical Right are independent. The term independent in religious law is used for a particular type of religious institute.

JR

 

[malphono]

The word independent would not fit here, because all relgious orders of Pontifical Right are independent. The term independent in religious law is used for a particular type of religious institute.

I know that, but this is not a thread about canon law. I also withdraw my last two posts: Saturday of Light is not the time for me to engage in legal or semantical arguments without purpose.

 

[Annie2186]

Hi,

I ran across this post trying to figure out how to email the Fathers at Servants of the Holy Family…

WOW is all I can say.

I have been going to this church my entire life - I LOVE the priests there. Fr. Ward is an amazing theologian. Anyone who has gone to the Church and left with complaints I have known personally - they left because of selfish reasons and didn’t want to follow the true catholic religion.

My uncle was buried in 2003 by Fr. Ward himself. An completely unbiased person (the funeral home worker - who drove the hearse) came up to me and said how moved he was by the whole ceremony and how he felt that THIS was the only thing God had ever been present at (he had worked at the funeral home for over 20 years)

Look back at Church history - all of the best Saint’s, most holy Popes - and even Jesus Christ Himself have been persecuted. Seeing a pattern? Show me proof that these priests have done ONE THING wrong and I will gladly appoligize.

And if anyone from Colorado Springs is reading this - and you have put a bad name on the Servants of the Holy Family.

SHAME ON YOU - that is all I have to say.

I would die for my faith - and for any one of those priests. I am a 23 year old who practices the faith exactly the same as someone my age did at the very begining of christianity…how many other people can say that?

If anyone has questions about Servants of the Holy Family - feel free to contact me at AnnMarieHammond@gmail.com and I would glady answer any questions.

Secondly - the nuns are amazing - follow the carmalite rule to a T…there is even a prophesy that the carmalites will be one of the only rules that will last to the end of time…and quite frankly - these amazing women could be it.

 

[JReducation]

Hi,

I ran across this post trying to figure out how to email the Fathers at Servants of the Holy Family…

WOW is all I can say.

I have been going to this church my entire life - I LOVE the priests there. Fr. Ward is an amazing theologian. Anyone who has gone to the Church and left with complaints I have known personally - they left because of selfish reasons and didn’t want to follow the true catholic religion.

My uncle was buried in 2003 by Fr. Ward himself. An completely unbiased person (the funeral home worker - who drove the hearse) came up to me and said how moved he was by the whole ceremony and how he felt that THIS was the only thing God had ever been present at (he had worked at the funeral home for over 20 years)

Look back at Church history - all of the best Saint’s, most holy Popes - and even Jesus Christ Himself have been persecuted. Seeing a pattern? Show me proof that these priests have done ONE THING wrong and I will gladly appoligize.

And if anyone from Colorado Springs is reading this - and you have put a bad name on the Servants of the Holy Family.

SHAME ON YOU - that is all I have to say.

I would die for my faith - and for any one of those priests. I am a 23 year old who practices the faith exactly the same as someone my age did at the very begining of christianity…how many other people can say that?

If anyone has questions about Servants of the Holy Family - feel free to contact me at AnnMarieHammond@gmail.com and I would glady answer any questions.

Secondly - the nuns are amazing - follow the carmalite rule to a T…there is even a prophesy that the carmalites will be one of the only rules that will last to the end of time…and quite frankly - these amazing women could be it.

They may be wonderful people; but did they get faculties from the local bishop? That was the issue. They were functioning outside of the authority of the Church.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[I_Believe]

Good grief.

Schismatic this, schismatic that. Yada Yada Yada.

Look at this…
rickross.com/reference/general/general692.html

Ok, I’m reading along, and come to this…

Former members claim priests criticize the Pope from the pulpit - something almost unheard of in most Catholic parishes.

Well, Ok. Not a good idea I suppose, but what of the Bishops who deny the faithful a right to the TLM via the SP ? Are they in full communion with the pope ?

How about the Bishops who lashed out publicly at H.H. BXVI after he lifted the excommunications of the SSPX Bishops ? Or the ones that banded together as a group and called for our Holy Father to step down ? How about the Cardinal who said that the most precious treasure of Holy Mother Church, the TLM, “does not instill he Spirit of Christ in those who attend it” ? And said the Tridentine Mass was invented for those who couldn’t make the transition to the Novus Ordo Missae ? Who also consecrated the Precious Blood in a glass chalice ? Who also used 3 or 4 flavors of Kool Aid in place of wine ? Who also, via his spokesman, denied the indelible mark of Baptism when speaking of Mel Gibson ?

What label can we use to describe them ? Schismatics, Dissidents, Renegades ?

What category do THEY fall under ?

Sorry, I’ll cover the back of a “schismatic” priest fighting for Tradition rather than accept a disobedient dissident, or in two of the examples above, heretic, as being in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

Tradition trumps all. The saddest day in church history was the day Pope Paul VI discarded the Tiara in the spirit of the “c” word.

Tradition ? Modernism ? Rationalism ?

It’s a no brainer to a Catholic.

 

[JReducation]

Good grief.

Schismatic this, schismatic that. Yada Yada Yada.

Look at this…
rickross.com/reference/general/general692.html

Ok, I’m reading along, and come to this…

Well, Ok. Not a good idea I suppose, but what of the Bishops who deny the faithful a right to the TLM via the SP ? Are they in full communion with the pope ?

How about the Bishops who lashed out publicly at H.H. BXVI after he lifted the excommunications of the SSPX Bishops ? Or the ones that banded together as a group and called for our Holy Father to step down ? How about the Cardinal who said that the most precious treasure of Holy Mother Church, the TLM, “does not instill he Spirit of Christ in those who attend it” ? And said the Tridentine Mass was invented for those who couldn’t make the transition to the Novus Ordo Missae ? Who also consecrated the Precious Blood in a glass chalice ? Who also used 3 or 4 flavors of Kool Aid in place of wine ? Who also, via his spokesman, denied the indelible mark of Baptism when speaking of Mel Gibson ?

What label can we use to describe them ? Schismatics, Dissidents, Renegades ?

What category do THEY fall under ?

Sorry, I’ll cover the back of a “schismatic” priest fighting for Tradition rather than accept a disobedient dissident, or in two of the examples above, heretic, as being in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

Tradition trumps all.

Sorry to disagree, but obedience trumps all.

None of the above are right, including the renegage, dissident or the schismatic.

Read the writings of St. Benedict, St. Augustine, St. Francis, St. Vincent de Paul, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, Bl. John XXIII, John Paul II, Bl. Mother Teresa, St. Padre Pio, St. Bonaventure and many others. Obedience is the highest of virtues, because it is the same coin as humility. Christ was obedient unto death to Mary, Joseph and the Father.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[I_Believe]

Sorry to disagree, but obedience trumps all.

None of the above are right, including the renegage, dissident or the schismatic.

Read the writings of St. Benedict, St. Augustine, St. Francis, St. Vincent de Paul, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, Bl. John XXIII, John Paul II, Bl. Mother Teresa, St. Padre Pio, St. Bonaventure and many others. Obedience is the highest of virtues, because it is the same coin as humility. Christ was obedient unto death to Mary, Joseph and the Father.

Fraternally,

JR

Actually, Obedience is listed as one of the Three Evangelical Counsels. The other two are Voluntary Charity and Chastity.

I’ve just looked back at a couple of sources I have here, and nowhere do I find obedience listed under precepts or the various groups of virtues.

I do see that one of The Nine Ways Of Being Accessory To Another’s Sin, and actually the first listed, as “By Counsel”. Another is “By Silence”.

I do refer to Saints when trying to sort out things.

“Not to oppose error is to approve it, and not to defend truth is to suppress it, and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them.”

• Pope St. Felix III

One of the Twelve Fruits Of The Holy Ghost is Patience. This can be applied to support your stand on the issue. And the point you made about Christ being obedient unto death is one of my favorite things I’ve embraced from the writings of St Alphonsus. I can’t recall the exact quote, but it’s there in the context you speak of.

Thing is JR, the situation we find ourselves in today is unprecedented. After the French Revolution, our popes saw this coming. Sure the Church has been fighting errors and so forth throughout Her history, but today, the laity is involved in the division.

If a priest says or does something contrary to Church teaching, there is a good chance it will wind up on the internet. And as long as there are catholic forums, folks are going to take a stand on the internet. In the past, before VII, the Hierarchy dealt with these matters. But the internet and media throw it all in our laps.

Trads won’t shut up about it. How can they, when they have all of those quotes they like to post to support their defense of Tradition ? We even have clergy in the Vatican the share the same concerns. We have, again, the The Nine Ways Of Being Accessory To Another’s Sin to cinsider.

We probably should shut up about it and let the Holy See sort things out. Cardinal Hoyos was fairly blunt about this when speaking of what he has seen on these forums. But, like I mentioned, we have Bishops attacking our Holy Father publicly.

We didn’t ask for this crisis, but the media is going to make sure it’s shoved in our face day in and day out.

 

[Annie2186]

Ok - first of all - as I said I have been going to this church my whole - every Sunday - not just when I feel like it.

I have NEVER heard of them saying ANYTHING bad about any of the Popes…so that is a down right lie.

I know for a fact that they are still in Communion with Rome - because I have looked extensively into the subject and not just taken their word for it.

YES - they are traditionalist. Do you know why Bishop Sheridan doesn’t like them? Because they REFUSE to say an English Mass along with the Latin Mass…Seriously. If they offered ONE english mass on Sunday - everyone would be happy as a lark.

They refuse to do this - if that makes them bad priests for standing up for what they believe and NOT giving in even a “little” to make their life easier then…guess its just the way it is.

Some of my extended family stopped going to this Church - and guess what? They don’t go to ANY church anymore. And as far as the family being shunned by us??? Uhhhhh, no.

The Servants of the Holy Family are loving priests. The people who go there are not a cult. Actually - most of us have messed up pretty bad a few times in our lives. They are always there to help no matter what - and as long as you are willing to not give in to the non-traditional ways EVEN A LITTLE you are always welcome.

The reason they ask you a bunch of questions if you just show up is because they don’t want you to recieve Holy Communion if you don’t understand what it is…is that unreasonable?

Everything is all hearsay. If you ACTUALLY look into the subject you will see that the only thing they are guilty of is not making anyones lives easier by actually giving up their morals.

THEY ARE VERY TRADITIONAL - PERIOD. That is what everything boils down to.

 

[JReducation]

Ok - first of all - as I said I have been going to this church my whole - every Sunday - not just when I feel like it.

I have NEVER heard of them saying ANYTHING bad about any of the Popes…so that is a down right lie.

I know for a fact that they are still in Communion with Rome - because I have looked extensively into the subject and not just taken their word for it.

YES - they are traditionalist. Do you know why Bishop Sheridan doesn’t like them? Because they REFUSE to say an English Mass along with the Latin Mass…Seriously. If they offered ONE english mass on Sunday - everyone would be happy as a lark.

They refuse to do this - if that makes them bad priests for standing up for what they believe and NOT giving in even a “little” to make their life easier then…guess its just the way it is.

Some of my extended family stopped going to this Church - and guess what? They don’t go to ANY church anymore. And as far as the family being shunned by us??? Uhhhhh, no.

The Servants of the Holy Family are loving priests. The people who go there are not a cult. Actually - most of us have messed up pretty bad a few times in our lives. They are always there to help no matter what - and as long as you are willing to not give in to the non-traditional ways EVEN A LITTLE you are always welcome.

The reason they ask you a bunch of questions if you just show up is because they don’t want you to recieve Holy Communion if you don’t understand what it is…is that unreasonable?

Everything is all hearsay. If you ACTUALLY look into the subject you will see that the only thing they are guilty of is not making anyones lives easier by actually giving up their morals.

THEY ARE VERY TRADITIONAL - PERIOD. That is what everything boils down to.

Everything that you say sounds very positive. The only problem that I see is a canonical one. If any community runs a parish in a diocese, the parish falls within the jurisdiction of the local bishop. If the local bishop wans a mass in English or whatever language, the parish must comply. Religious do not have authority over parishes. They simply staff them, even if they built them with their money.

My order has built many parishes with our money. But we do not own them. The law is that dioceses own all parishes. Religious only own their chapels and private oratories that are part of the religious house.

Other than that, everything sounds OK.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Annie2186]

They are wonderful priests. And they actually DO NOT have to do what the Local Bishop tells them to because Fr. Ward started his own religious order (with vatican approval) and is his OWN private chapel. I am not a part of the colorado springs diocese or parish. I go to a private chapel.

They don’t even have to let people go to their church - and frankly - sometimes I’m surprised (grateful but surprised) that they still do.

If anyone has questions about them - why don’t they just ask someone who REALLY knows the status of what is going on - someone with an unbiased opinion. That’s what I did

 

[PaulinVA]

Annie, not to let you think that silence is agreement, I’ll respond to your last post.

The local Bishop does indeed control what goes on in his geographic territory. He determines who is in communion with him. The last public statement I can find from the Bishop of Colorado Springs is that the Servants of the Holy Family are schismatic. That is the unbiased opinion that counts - the Bishop with jurisdiction.

If you have more current information, please share it so this can be resolved.

 

[Annie2186]

Annie, not to let you think that silence is agreement, I’ll respond to your last post.

The local Bishop does indeed control what goes on in his geographic territory. He determines who is in communion with him. The last public statement I can find from the Bishop of Colorado Springs is that the Servants of the Holy Family are schismatic. That is the unbiased opinion that counts - the Bishop with jurisdiction.

If you have more current information, please share it so this can be resolved.

Are you planning on going to my Church? Know someone who would like to go to my Church? Does it really make a difference at all to you?

I ran across this post by accident - and I’m actually glad I found this site - but I was just trying to find The Servants of the Holy Family’s email address. It was kind of a slap across the face to me - quite like someone insulting your family. My knee-jerk reaction was to respond. I had to choice but to defend my Church.

If you actually have a reason (or anyone on here) have a reason that they would like to know the standing. WITHOUT just trying to prove a point for no reason. I would be more than happy to try to help you find a way to prove their upstanding position in Rome. Other than that - I really have no reason to continue this discussion.

I have said my peace - I have defended the Fathers who I owe my faith to. They baptized me, taught me catechism until the 12th grade, gave me my first communion, and finally converted my husband and married us. NOW my step-daughter just finished her pre-communion class for the year.

This church is a little piece of heaven - and anyone who has the opportunity to go there should send me a private message and I will help you ease your mind if at all possible. I don’t remember exactly how I researched it (it was a long time ago - I think it was back in 2005) but I did get confirmation directly from the Vatican that the Servants of the Holy Family are in full communion with Rome…I really don’t care what Bishop Sheridan says - pretty sure Rome trumps the local bishop …and I’m really not sure he’s even still the Bishop…

Anyways - I’m not looking at this post anymore - if I died tomorrow I would go confidently to my death knowing that I go to this chapel and having recieved ALL of my sacraments there along with all of my children doing the same.

The End

 

[GenuineCatholic]

True, i am sure the Vatican over-rides any Bishop.
I too have sent a letter to His Holiness. I sent it today and am waiting a reply. I will also call the Cardinal who deals with Bishops. I will do whatever i can to stand up for this community. I have a vocation there, and they genuinely care for my well-being. They are of God, and i will aid them to the most of my power. With God’s acceptance, what i can do will over throw the influences of their adversaries. I do what Saint Therese did, i am going to out Holy Father. Who better to go to than the Shpeherds of the Church? Those who are suppose to be here for us? That is what i am doing. I trust the Trinity, i trust our Blessed Mother, i trust the Saints, and i trust our Holy Father.

 

[JReducation]

I don’t know the Servants of the Holy Family. However, there are some rules in canon law that apply in this situation of any other situation that may be similar.

As we can see from canon law, the bishop has ALL ordinary power over his diocese, except those that are reserved to the Supreme Pontiff. Determining when a religious congregation or society is in communion with the local bishop is not the role of the Pontiff, but falls within the ordinary role of the local bishop.

I am a religious. We have autonomy from the bishop in all matters that pertain to our way of life and how we govern ourselves, because we are an order of Pontifical Right, our ministry to the laity must be in communion with the local bishop. The local bishop is the highest authority over the people in his diocese, not the religious who minister to them. Therefore, if the bishop says that our ministry is not in communion with him we have to options. We must adjust our ministry according to the requirements of the bishop or we must leave the diocese. To remain in the diocese and run our ministry our way, when the bishop does not approve, is a breach of the vow of obedience.

If we were ministering to people who come to our schools, hospitals, colleges or other institutions that we own, there would be no legal obligation to the bishop. Let me jump down to the next quote to explain this.

Can. 381 §1. A diocesan bishop in the diocese entrusted to him has all ordinary, proper, and immediate power which is required for the exercise of his pastoral function except for cases which the law or a decree of the Supreme Pontiff reserves to the supreme authority or to another ecclesiastical authority.

I don’t know if the Servants of the Holy Family are an Institute of Pontifical Right. But if they are, the bishop may only visit their houses and their PRIVATE ministries when invited by their superior. Their superior is the proper Ordinary when it comes to the life of the community and what they do within the confines of their houses. If they are out of communion with the bishop or the Church, it is up to the Holy See to discipline them. This does not mean that the bishop has to endorse them. It simply means that he cannot order them to change. This order must come from their major superior or the Holy See.

**Can. 397 §1. Persons, Catholic institutions, and sacred things and places, which are located within the area of the diocese, are subject to ordinary episcopal visitation.

§2. A bishop can visit members of religious institutes of pontifical right and their houses only in the cases expressed in law.**

If they are not an Institute of Pontifical Right, the bishop may visit their houses, their chapels and their work. Canonically, he is their superior, even over their major superior.

The question is whether the Servants of the Holy Family are of Pontifical Right or not. If they are of Pontifical Right, they can appeal the bishop’s position to the Holy Father. Otherwise, they have no access to the Holy Father. The principal of subsidiarity applies. That means that the issue is to be resolved at the diocesan level without involving the pope. Said in another way, the pope will refuse to get involved because the Servants to not enjoy his protection.

All that being said, whether they are of Pontifical Right or not, if they are ministering to the people of his diocese, the bishop is responsible for his people. He has the authority to sanction any religious person or religious community and even forbid them to minister to his people. This is usually done by suspending their faculties to preach, witness marriages and grant absolution. The bishop has the right to decide what he wants to suspend, for how long and whose faculties. It can be the entire congregation or certain members.

In conclusion, there is very little that the Holy Father can do to overrule a bishop who is using his legal rights as prescribed by canon law, even if the Holy Father disagrees. The one thing that the Holy Father cannot do is to take the people of that diocese or a portion of the people under his wing. That role belongs to a bishop, unless that group of people is declared to be a Prelature, such as Opus Dei. Those people are governed by a vicar of the pope, not a local bishop. But they are an organized association approved by the Church.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[GenuineCatholic]

I do not mean to sound rude if i do.
But what do you mean you are part of a religious community? And in what way? And pardon my disagreement, but you think i am really going to believe that the Pope himself can not override a Bishop?? In my eyes that is herrasy, and i am sure without a doubt that His Holiness CAN get involved with whatever area he wishes. He is the POPE. The ONLY ones above Him are the Heavenly beings under God and God ((Father Son and Holy Spirit)) Himself. NOT a Bishop, legally or no.
I am certain that with my Lord’s Graces, His Holiness and/or the Cardinal of Bishops WILL intervene.
I can not believe you, a Catholic, would deny His Holiness’ Authority.