Serving in an unjust war?

[Montie_Claunch]

I remeber hearing rumors a few months ago that the draft for the war. I also remeber hearing questions of the War in Iriaq as a just war or not. I was wondering if they do start the draft and I am enlisted into the army (and if the war is unjust), would it be wrong for me to fight? Thanks and God bless.

 

[Benedictus]

To volunteer to fight in a war, you must be convinced that the war is just. If you are conscripted to fight in a war, you do not need to be convinced that the war is just. I believe that Heribert Jone discusses this in his book Moral Theology.

A conscript who believes the war to be unjust may refuse to serve, but must be willing to accept the consequences. A conscript who does not believe the war to be unjust is morally obligated to serve (barring some other extenuating circumstances).

 

[deb1]

I do not believe that the draft will be reinstated. It would be to much of a public relations nightmare.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

The only ones calling for the reinstatement of the draft have been Democrats (specifically Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., and Sen. Fritz Hollings, D-S.C.).

PF

 

[AndyF]

Montie Claunch:

I remeber hearing rumors a few months ago that the draft for the war. I also remeber hearing questions of the War in Iriaq as a just war or not. I was wondering if they do start the draft and I am enlisted into the army (and if the war is unjust), would it be wrong for me to fight? Thanks and God bless.

What war?

Do you mean the overpowering of another nation by superior might? There is a limit where you can apply the definition I would think. Terms more appropriate would be walk-through,crushing,etc but spare me the tongue-in-cheek…“war”.

The US is at an all time low in global appeal, perhaps it has something to do with what it defines as war.

But yes, by all means resist, and you can use the incident where in a debriefing of landed troops in Iraq, a CO stated to the troops that the troops should forget about any reason they were told to be there, but the real reason was oil, and that is a fact. The officer was summararilly made to disappear. Every once in a while, God reveals the truth in such events, and we can thank Him for the stuff that passess the censors.

Andy

 

[BlestOne]

AndyF:

What war?

Do you mean the overpowering of another nation by superior might? There is a limit where you can apply the definition I would think. Terms more appropriate would be walk-through,crushing,etc but spare me the tongue-in-cheek…“war”.

The US is at an all time low in global appeal, perhaps it has something to do with what it defines as war.

But yes, by all means resist, and you can use the incident where in a debriefing of landed troops in Iraq, a CO stated to the troops that the troops should forget about any reason they were told to be there, but the real reason was oil, and that is a fact. The officer was summararilly made to disappear. Every once in a while, God reveals the truth in such events, and we can thank Him for the stuff that passess the censors.

Andy

Andy,
Your response is uncalled for! Perhaps you have forgotten about the 3000 innocent people who were killed by a bunch of Christian hating folks and the man who gave them safe haven in his country, but I haven’t. I have lost people I know and love, and you make it into a political statement! I am insulted, as I am sure many of our military CA folks are as well. I tell you what, you go tell my baby brother that to his face ok? Hurry, he is about to leave for his 4th tour in the middle east…oh…you will know him when you see him, he is the guy leading his men…you know, the CO of his unit. Tell him it is all about oil, while you are at it, tell my pastor, who has heen there twice now since he is a Catholic chaplian. I for one am a proud vetran, I served during Desert Storm and I never heard anyone tell me it was about oil…

 

[Benedictus]

BlestOne:

Your response is uncalled for!

True.

Perhaps you have forgotten about the 3000 innocent people who were killed by a bunch of Christian hating folks and the man who gave them safe haven in his country, but I haven’t.

Saddam didn’t give them safe haven. No Iraqis were involved in 9/11.

 

[mary_bobo]

BlestOne:

Andy,
Your response is uncalled for! Perhaps you have forgotten about the 3000 innocent people who were killed by a bunch of Christian hating folks and the man who gave them safe haven in his country, but I haven’t. I have lost people I know and love, and you make it into a political statement! I am insulted, as I am sure many of our military CA folks are as well. I tell you what, you go tell my baby brother that to his face ok? Hurry, he is about to leave for his 4th tour in the middle east…oh…you will know him when you see him, he is the guy leading his men…you know, the CO of his unit. Tell him it is all about oil, while you are at it, tell my pastor, who has heen there twice now since he is a Catholic chaplian. I for one am a proud vetran, I served during Desert Storm

 

[mary_bobo]

BlestOne:

Andy,
Your response is uncalled for! Perhaps you have forgotten about the 3000 innocent people who were killed by a bunch of Christian hating folks and the man who gave them safe haven in his country, but I haven’t. I have lost people I know and love, and you make it into a political statement! I am insulted, as I am sure many of our military CA folks are as well. I tell you what, you go tell my baby brother that to his face ok? Hurry, he is about to leave for his 4th tour in the middle east…oh…you will know him when you see him, he is the guy leading his men…you know, the CO of his unit. Tell him it is all about oil, while you are at it, tell my pastor, who has heen there twice now since he is a Catholic chaplian. I for one am a proud vetran, I served during Desert Storm and I never heard anyone tell me it was about oil…

 

[mary_bobo]

mary bobo:
Sorry for the misstep. What I want to add is that I pray daily for the wonderful young Americans who have chosen to serve our country. Your brave brother must see the things that are being accomplished in Iraq. Sorry others are blinded by hatred for the President and blindly follow those who insist nothing good is happening there.

As for fighting for oil, another one of the uneducated (I will try not to state it more firmly in accord with forum rules) statements repeated over and over by those who cannot see beyond the end of their noses. What do they think runs the country?

And the idea that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, regardless of what the liberal media keep repeating, the president never said he did. But if you can look at the whole issue of terrorism and cannot see the footprints of Saddam, Assad, etal, you just do not want to face facts. Please do some study and get the facts before you put down our troops. The deserve our prayers and our eternal gratitude no matter what war they serve(d) in.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Montie Claunch:

I remeber hearing rumors a few months ago that the draft for the war.

Has rumour-monguering taken over from investigative reporting? If so, when and why?

 

[vern_humphrey]

AndyF:

But yes, by all means resist, and you can use the incident where in a debriefing of landed troops in Iraq, a CO stated to the troops that the troops should forget about any reason they were told to be there, but the real reason was oil, and that is a fact. The officer was summararilly made to disappear. Every once in a while, God reveals the truth in such events, and we can thank Him for the stuff that passess the censors.

Andy

Please give us a cite for this incident, including the name of the officer and the date and place it occurred.

 

[mikew262]

AndyF:

What war?

Do you mean the overpowering of another nation by superior might? There is a limit where you can apply the definition I would think. Terms more appropriate would be walk-through,crushing,etc but spare me the tongue-in-cheek…“war”.

The US is at an all time low in global appeal, perhaps it has something to do with what it defines as war.

But yes, by all means resist, and you can use the incident where in a debriefing of landed troops in Iraq, a CO stated to the troops that the troops should forget about any reason they were told to be there, but the real reason was oil, and that is a fact. The officer was summararilly made to disappear. Every once in a while, God reveals the truth in such events, and we can thank Him for the stuff that passess the censors.

Andy

Here we go.

 

[mikew262]

Benedictus:

True.

Saddam didn’t give them safe haven. No Iraqis were involved in 9/11.

No, but Saddam’s gov’t was having talks with Bin Laden’s people before 9/11 in Iraq. BTW, who do you think we are fighting now in Iraq? It’s Al Queda (sp?) terrorists. Have we been attacked here in the US since 9/11? No. Why? We are taking the fight to them.

 

[cargau]

Determining justfication for war is a major ethical dilemma. I am not altogether certain that this war can be labeled as “unjust”.

Remember, we got rid of a ruthless dictator that did use weapons of mass destruction. Further, this same leader snubbed his nose at UN weapons inspectors chose to ignore UN sanctions.
He was given ample opportunity to alter his ways and chose not to.

I have seen posts that state that this is a war for oil. One could state that the interest by our leaders in opting to fight this war is because this region has so much oil. That makes it much more important from a strategic viewpoint. If the oil were to be suddenly turned off, what would your world look like? Have you ever considered the impact that so many lives would suffer because this same tyrant had the power to control the flow of oil?

My question is; Is the world and the Middle East going to be better off with a democratically elected leader or with Saddam Hussein? Perhaps, that is a question only history could tell…

One last thought, America (particularily the North) had the same reservations about the civil war. Many couldn’t comprehend shedding so much American blood for the sake of “Negros”. Remember, African Americans were widely considered to be a commodity just like oil! Although Lincoln favored freeing the slaves, his main motivation was preserving the Union. Abraham Lincoln stayed the course and the rest is history…

 

[AndyF]

BlestOne:

Andy,
Your response is uncalled for! Perhaps you have forgotten about the 3000 innocent people who were killed by a bunch of Christian hating folks and the man who gave them safe haven in his country, but I haven’t. I have lost people I know and love, and you make it into a political statement! I am insulted, as I am sure many of our military CA folks are as well. I tell you what, you go tell my baby brother that to his face ok? Hurry, he is about to leave for his 4th tour in the middle east…oh…you will know him when you see him, he is the guy leading his men…you know, the CO of his unit. Tell him it is all about oil, while you are at it, tell my pastor, who has heen there twice now since he is a Catholic chaplian. I for one am a proud vetran, I served during Desert Storm and I never heard anyone tell me it was about oil…

There is no direct connection between the war in Iraq and 9/11, and that’s the truth, but we have to give Bush a pat on the back
for taking the opportunity to make it part of the excuse.

Besides, Ragean would have something to say about his friend’s (Saddam) trial, as the attorcities he was committing was well known by the US even when it chose to ally itself with Iraq.

You can tell everyone you know going over there if you wish, because that’s the truth.

Andy

 

[AndyF]

mikew262:

No, but Saddam’s gov’t was having talks with Bin Laden’s people before 9/11 in Iraq. BTW, who do you think we are fighting now in Iraq? It’s Al Queda (sp?) terrorists. Have we been attacked here in the US since 9/11? No. Why? We are taking the fight to them.

Raegan knew all about the attrocities that Saddam was committing, but that didn’t prevent the US from allying itself with Iraq. So you tell me, where’s the justice to Saddam. We have Reagan who by complicity should have known better but decided to break the very rules of Christianity.

In fact, if Raegan was alive and I was Saddam, I would call him on it in front of the UN and expose the farse in front of the world.

Andy

 

[mikew262]

cargau:

Determining justfication for war is a major ethical dilemma. I am not altogether certain that this war can be labeled as “unjust”.

Remember, we got rid of a ruthless dictator that did use weapons of mass destruction. Further, this same leader snubbed his nose at UN weapons inspectors chose to ignore UN sanctions.
He was given ample opportunity to alter his ways and chose not to.

I have seen posts that state that this is a war for oil. One could state that the interest by our leaders in opting to fight this war is because this region has so much oil. That makes it much more important from a strategic viewpoint. If the oil were to be suddenly turned off, what would your world look like? Have you ever considered the impact that so many lives would suffer because this same tyrant had the power to control the flow of oil?

My question is; Is the world and the Middle East going to be better off with a democratically elected leader or with Saddam Hussein? Perhaps, that is a question only history could tell…

One last thought, America (particularily the North) had the same reservations about the civil war. Many couldn’t comprehend shedding so much American blood for the sake of “Negros”. Remember, African Americans were widely considered to be a commodity just like oil! Although Lincoln favored freeing the slaves, his main motivation was preserving the Union. Abraham Lincoln stayed the course and the rest is history…

Good post!!

 

[AndyF]

vern humphrey:

Please give us a cite for this incident, including the name of the officer and the date and place it occurred.

It was quite some time ago, so I’ll have to hunt up the news item, but meanwhile here’s something to digest. Blestone should keep up to date on the goings on of politicians and should learn about the US past foreign policy, and here is a good start.

On the same tact, when Saudi Arabia was well in a trade deal with the US (50’s/60’s I think), it had decided to open up trade with other nations as well. When the US got word of this, the ambassador told the Prince (Faud I think.) that “the US will not tolerate a cutting off of oil”. The Prince became afraid to stop exports to the US. From that time on a business deal turned to extortion.

This is all common information known to most other global nations, and can be retreived quite readily.

greenleft.org.au/back/2003/535/535p14.htm

boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/08/31/bush_gives_new_reason_for_iraq_war/

Andy

 

[cargau]

AndyF:

Raegan knew all about the attrocities that Saddam was committing, but that didn’t prevent the US from allying itself with Iraq. So you tell me, where’s the justice to Saddam. We have Reagan who by complicity should have known better but decided to break the very rules of Christianity.

In fact, if Raegan was alive and I was Saddam, I would call him on it in front of the UN and expose the farse in front of the world.

Hi Andy,

Diplomacy and the National Interests often call for strange bedfellows. The enemy of the Reagan era was clearly Iran. Just before Reagan had taken office Iran illegally held Americans hostage for many months. Iran and Iraq were at war, and, it was politically expedient to ally in some capacity with the Iraqis in order to oppose Iran.

That is not a carte blance endorsement for everything Saddam did or said. I would hardly characterize Ronald Reagan as a farce! And, I would seriously question the integrity of a man (Hussein, that gassed his own people) to entertain an opinion of another world leader.

God willing, Saddam will get his justice brought forth, not by Americans but by his own people.

You sound awfully angry… Take a deep breadth, it’ll be OK.