Seventh Day Adventists

[Javl]

Although I have been following this thread for some time, I have been a little reluctant to post to this thread since some of the exchanges seemed a little, um, spicy! :slapfight: However, I think I will weigh in with a little observation of my own. Both of my parents are staunch Seventh-day Adventists, and I was baptized into that church as an adolescent. After I moved away from home I began studying the Scriptures independently, and this eventually led me to the One True Faith. I must say that in most of my interactions with members of the SDA church, I have developed a strong impression that they tend to be a bit aggressive in their approach to discussing any faith other than their own. I have fallen victim to rather “bullying” tactics by SDA members more than once. Sadly, the exchanges in this thread have only reinforced that impression.

Another thing that worries me about the SDA church is it’s propensity to spawn a variety of fringe groups and schisms that in some cases can be quite dangerous (such as the Branch Davidians, which broke off from another SDA sect known as the Davidian Seventh-day Adventists). I have had some rather frightening personal experiences with members of a SDA fringe group that eventually culminated in my having a Temporary Restraining Order placed on some of their members (they began following me around, showing up on my doorstep and trying to prevent me from entering my home, they came to my place of employment and harassed colleagues, etc.). This all happened after I told my parents and SDA pastor that I was going to be joining the Catholic Church. My parents have refused to speak to me since that announcement, although I joined the Church many years ago.

I am now rambling, forgive me! My point is just to say that my personal experiences with this faith were not positive. It is unfortunate that no meaningful dialogue could have been engaged here. It was impossible to discuss matters of faith with people in the SDA church when I converted, because they were as evasive, passive-aggressive and argumentative as some of the people who have posted here. Reading through the exchanges that have taken place here have reminded me of similar exchanges I have had with SDA members. It is regrettable that things just haven’t changed that much, even after all these years!

Thank you Miss Linda for your post. It saddens and grieves me that you were put through such and ordeal, but I do praise and Bless the Lord that you did find the truth and became one of the faithful of Jesus’ Church. We do know the ways and means of the SDA Church and are trying to engage in useful dialogue, but as you can see and know it does not seem to work. But we will keep trying until we can get at least one of its members to look at the real unadulturated truth. Meanwhile God Bless you abundantly.

P.S. Please step in at any time to post your thoughts, comments, and remarks.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Catdan]

Hi All,

Been away on a trip, so haven’t been able to post for a few days. Miss Linda its quite disappointing to her your story re treatment from your former friends and family. Having grown up in an SDA family as a child and walking away from it all at an early age I must admit I have never seen that side of them or any other type of denomination while I spent my time “finding myself”. But any way by the look of thing on here it seems most you lovely people seem to know a lot about the SDA beliefs, so I genuinely ask you all to show me the bible truths with the main topics that they seem to misinterpret.

I suppose we could start with these that I tried to answer below.

They do not believe in Hell.
The Bible quiet clearly talks about hell so a bit hard not to believe in that.

They believe that the pope is the antichrist.
Fairly sure its the papal system

They believe that Christ sinned.
Ha!!! Never heard that one. Fairly sure that’s not true.

They do not worship on Sunday.
Very True

They are mostly vegans (nothing wrong with that, really).
Possible but I think you will find that most are vegetarians, but certainly not biblical. Ask any dietitian for their advice on type of eating, I still love a good Lamb roast though.

They claim to be the authentic remnant church.
They do claim this, but I believe that they will be a part of the last group of people that follow the Ten commandments.

They were founded by Ellen G. White.
True and I believe some put a little to much emphisis on what she says at times. However she does have some good commentary like many others that I have read.

They do not believe in the assurance of salvation.
Eph 2:8 kills that myth

Socially, they are against unionization.
Never read that in the Bible but possibly true, not really sure but has nothing to do with our personal relationship with God.

They believe that worship should be on the original Sabbath (from Friday night to Saturday night). They do not worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, as do the majority of Christians
Very True about the Sabbath. The Ten Commanmnets clearly state this and best of all Jesus worshiped on this Holy day. Jesus came to fulfill the law not to do away with it. But i’m sure we all worship our God everyday, Right?

Having only recently returned to having a relationship with my Lord and Saviour as an adult I suppose I still have many many questions how so many different churches can interpret the Bible so many ways. May I ask that everyone drops the attacks on each other and lets have a genuine discussion on some of your personal beliefs so we can all grow close to our God in heaven. I love the statement that I saw recently WWJD (what would Jesus Do) in this situation.

So Lets begin, Give me everything you have in baby steps please!!!

 

[greggy53]

Hi All,

Been away on a trip, so haven’t been able to post for a few days. Miss Linda its quite disappointing to her your story re treatment from your former friends and family. Having grown up in an SDA family as a child and walking away from it all at an early age I must admit I have never seen that side of them or any other type of denomination while I spent my time “finding myself”. But any way by the look of thing on here it seems most you lovely people seem to know a lot about the SDA beliefs, so I genuinely ask you all to show me the bible truths with the main topics that they seem to misinterpret.

I suppose we could start with these that I tried to answer below.

Having only recently returned to having a relationship with my Lord and Saviour as an adult I suppose I still have many many questions how so many different churches can interpret the Bible so many ways. May I ask that everyone drops the attacks on each other and lets have a genuine discussion on some of your personal beliefs so we can all grow close to our God in heaven. I love the statement that I saw recently WWJD (what would Jesus Do) in this situation.

So Lets begin, Give me everything you have in baby steps please!!!

I would like to comment on a couple of items from your list.
“They believe that the pope is the antichrist.
Fairly sure its the papal system”
Isn’t the Anti-Christ specifically mentioned as an individual in scripture?
If so this would make it difficult for the anti-Christ to be a “system” of anykind.

“They claim to be the authentic remnant church.
They do claim this, but I believe that they will be a part of the last group of people that follow the Ten commandments”.
What is a remnant church??, and what evidence do you have for it’s existence?
Is Ellen White responsible for this so-called prophesy? Or is this the result of another?
I have another question that wasn’t on your list. I have heard that the SDA church is officially pro-choice, or believes that abortion is OK. Is this true? Or just rumor?

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

I was quite interested in replying to Patrick about certain aspects of Adventist beliefs; but I guess he has done the same as you accuse me of?

Hi P101…now why did you go and drag me into that accusation?.. LOL You know I’m not like that…I hope you know

I’m very interested in your reply as well. I think the ball is in your court in our discussion. In Post # 555 and Post #693 I replied to your initial comment when you referenced Hebrews…and provided lots of scripture for my reasons.

I’m still waiting for you to share with me what you think Paul meant when he said that Jesus is a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

Howdy Patrick!

I guess I have to ask you re Gen 18:4, about the connection you have made with that to the Catholic Eucharist. Now, I know you said you didn’t personally make the connection, and that Paul did, but as I have looked at the verses you supplied, I do not see them, as they stand alone, as explaining the phrase “after the order of Melchisedek” very well. Can you show how you have concluded this bread and wine that Melchisedek gave out was in fact related to the Eucharist? And can you explain in response to my above question about why Catholics do not include the wine in the Eucharist/Lord’s supper? (that is the one part you missed commenting on). I think I just need to see a more thorough explanation before I can understand what you are saying. Thankyou.

Well I did provide scripture answers for this back in 555 and 693, but let me briefly clarify my thoughts for you.

It is a fair statement by you that you do not see these verses standing alone as explaining the phrase. That is why we cannot take verses alone to prove doctrines, but study the scriptures in whole. The scriptures which explain this are Gen 18:4, Hebrews, the scriptures regarding the Passover in both the OT and the NT, the scriptures regarding the Last Supper, John 6…and others, but these are sufficient.

Paul said that Jesus was a priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Melchizedek blessed Abram and came to him with bread and wine…bloodless offerings.

Later at Passover, the Hebrews were commanded to slay a lamb, spread its blood around the door posts, eat the entire Lamb and bread made without leaven, and their oldest sons would be saved from death of the plague, and they would be delivered from bondage to the promised land.

The Old covenant was established, with the sabbath given to the Hebrews for rest and reflection that God was the Creator (Ex. 20) as well as the Deliverer (Duet. 5)

The Tabernacle was established for the sacrifice of animals for the forgiveness of sins, since there can be no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. God also dwelled among the follower of the Old Covenant in the Most Holy of the Tabernacle. Later permanent temples were built for these purposes.

At the fullness of time God became man incarnate in Jesus Christ…the True Lamb of God…The True Passover Lamb.

At the Last Supper, Jesus held up bread and proclaimed that it was His body given for them, and the cup of wine and proclaimed that it was His blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. He also commanded us to remember Him and His sacrifice whenever we partake of that meal.

Jesus was sacrificed and shed His blood for the forgiveness of our sins, just as animals were previously. But Jesus sacrifice was perfect and there is no longer the need to sacrifice animals or anyone else, because Jesus once and for all one time sacrifice was perfect and sufficient for the forgiveness of our sins. And by His resurrection He made all things new, new creations, new creatures, THE CREATOR, and delivered us from sin and death, THE DELIVERER

Jesus, is now our High Priest, a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek, who offer the perfect sacrifice in the True Heavenly Sancturary for the forgiveness of our sins. And the sacrifice He presents to the Father is His sacrifice on Calvary.

Jesus sain in John 6 that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life. How in the world are we to do this?

Simple, we eat the Lord’s Supper of bread and wine which Jesus gave us and commanded us to do in memory of Him. We partake of His blood sacrifice in a bloodless meal…and yet because Jesus is God, The Word of God by who all things are created, the bread and wine we offer to God is changed by God into His body and blood, so that we may eat his flesh and drink his blood and have eternal life because of that sacrifice, that perfect sacrifice for our sins on Calvary.

Jesus as our High Priest forever in the order of Melchizedek, provides to us the true bread from heaven, the true passover lamb, the true sacrifice for our sins. His body and blood in the bread and wine which He proclaimed at the Last Supper.

It is only through God’s grace and the gift of faith that we can come to God and receive this wonderful eternal life.

It is a mystery and I did my best to explain it, but the wisdom of God is foolishness to men, and the wisdom of men is foolishness to God.

Because of my inability to explain clearly, you must take this in prayer to God and find His wisdom that seems so damned foolish to us.

Now, I would love to hear what you think Paul means when he says that Jesus is a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. What does that mean to you?

God bless all!!!

Oh…P.S. I told you in a previous post that since I have become Catholic I have indeed received Jesus’ Precious Blood in the species of wine at communion…in other words…both bread and wine have been used in communions that I have attended. Of course with flu season, the cup is not provided for obvious reasons, but His body, blood, soul, and divinity, are in each species of bread and wine completly and independently of the other.

 

[Catdan]

Greggy, I was hoping that you could tell me what your thoughts about how our beliefs are wrong from the Bible so I can get an understanding from your beliefs.

 

[Catdan]

This is a copy of an article that I found that may show some light on how the SDA see the antichrist.

Introduction

Many feel that the books of Daniel and Revelation need not to be studied because they are either to hard to understand or because they think the books are “locked.” However, Jesus Christ tells us in Revelation 1:3:

“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”

“Seal not the saying of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.” Revelation 22:10

The very word “Revelation” means revealed. We see that if we study bible prophecy we are pronounced as a blessed people. We also see how Jesus said “for the time is at hand.” In the book of Daniel, Daniel was told that the prophecies of Daniel were to be “sealed” up until the “time of the end” Daniel 12:9. Now when we return to Revelation 1:3, Jesus said, “for the time is at hand.” Therefore, the time to read and understand the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation is now! These two books go hand and hand, as you will notice while we begin to study them in this booklet. Peter and Paul in their wisdom said:

“We have a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.” 2 Peter 1:19.

“Despise not prophesyings.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20

Friends, be not as the people spoken of in Isaiah 29:11: “And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed.” Let us not be as the one mentioned in proverbs, which says:

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly (silliness) and shame (disgrace) unto him. -Proverbs 18:13.

Will there be an ultimate antichrist that will stand up against Jesus and his kingdom, and war with the saints of God? John spoke of many antichrists who have already crept into the churches, but notice how he also warns of an antichrist whom they have heard will soon come (1 John 2:18). Paul warns of this mega antichrist:

“Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day (the 2nd coming of Christ –verses 1 and 2) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?” -2 Thessalonians 2:3-5

This “son of perdition” exalts himself, and makes himself God, he is opposite of God and puts himself “in place” or “instead” of God: which is what the very word “anti” means. In this booklet, we will expose who this antichrist is through the books of Daniel and Revelation.

Brethren, my prayer is that you are blessed with the study of Daniel and the Revelation. May God richly bless you in your study of God’s word. Amen.

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord.” -Isaiah 1:18

 

[Catdan]

Identifying the Antichrist Part 1
Finding the Identity Marks

Please read Daniel Chapter 2 in your KJV Bible.

God gave the King of Babylon a dream, “In the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.” READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER OF DANIEL 2.

Notice these things about the image: The head was GOLD, then as you go down the chest and arms were of SILVER, his belly and thighs of BRASS, his legs of IRON and his feet part IRON and part CLAY (Daniel 2:32). At the end, a giant STONE smites the image at its feet and destroys it all. Some say this stone represents the 144,000, but I believe the bible is clear that this is Jesus and his eternal kingdom at his 2nd coming (Psalm 18:2, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and Matthew 21:42-44).

Lets let the bible interpret the bible. Each one of these parts of the body represents KINGS with KINGDOMS (Daniel 2:37-40). King Nebuchadnezzar and his Kingdom is the HEAD of GOLD (Daniel 2:38). Now before we find out who the next three kingdoms are, we need to realize that the Image of the Kings dream, and the FOUR beasts of Daniels dream in Daniel 7, are the same (READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER OF DANIEL 7). Don’t believe this? Come, let us reason together:

The four beasts represent four kingdoms (Daniel 7:17, 23) and they came up out of the SEA (Daniel 7:3). According to prophecy the SEA or WATERS represent ‘peoples, nations, multitudes and tongues’ (Revelation 17:15). There are also FOUR kingdoms in the Image the king dreamed (Note: The last part of the Image is not an ‘extra’ world kingdom, but the same as the Iron kingdom, since the Iron of the legs extend all the way down and ends at the toes. Only at that point, that last stage of the last kingdom will be partly weak and party strong, represented by the Iron and the Clay, see Daniel 2:42, and divided into ten divisions, as we will soon see). There are also FOUR beasts in Daniels dream in chapter 7, which are also four kingdoms. Notice also when you read Daniel 7 and 8, how each preceding Kingdom conquers the former Kingdom, an event also taking place among the Kingdoms of the image in Daniel 2. See also how the fourth kingdom in Daniel 2:40 “break in pieces and bruise.” The fourth kingdom of Daniel 7:7 also “breaks in pieces.” So both dreams are about the same thing, but with different symbols. Chapter 7 only provides MORE information. God does this so we study.

Who are the next three kings which take over after Babylon? The second is the Kingdom of the Medes and Persians (Daniel 5:28- 31) One (the Persians) being stronger then the other (the Medes) represented by the Bear beast, which rose up after the Lion beast on “one” side (read Daniel 7:4 and 5).

After the “bear” beast rose up another beast, or kingdom. This kingdom is represented as a “leopard” with four “wings” and four “heads”. This beast is the kingdom of GREECE, which conquered the kingdom of the Medes and Persians (see Daniel 8:20-21).

Now if you paid attention in high school, you’ll know that this kingdom of Greece was lead by king Alexander the Great, who, after he died of an over dose of alcohol, his kingdom was divided into four section with four of his generals to lead them as kings. This is represented by the four heads of the leopard. Compare Daniel 7:6 with Daniel 8:22. Heads can represent either kings, because king Nebuchadnezzar was the ‘head’ of the image, or mountains, see Revelation 17:9. However, we can only apply the heads as representing “kings” here since “dominion” was given unto these heads, see Daniel 7:6. The wings represent “strength, flight and speed” (See Jeremiah 48:9, Exodus 19:4, Isaiah 40:31 and Proverbs 23:5) of which we know that Alexander conquered the then modern world very fast and very young.

Now we have to identify the fourth beast, or fourth part of the image king Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of. Well think about this, what kingdom was in power when Jesus came into the picture? History and Biblical proof will tell you it was the kingdom of ROME (Read Matthew 22:17, Luke 3:1, Acts 17:7). So it was Rome that conquered the kingdom of Greece and began to rule the world! Prophecy says that Rome would be the last ruler of the entire world, no other beast rose up after this beast. The only kingdom that would rule the world and the universe after Rome would be the kingdom of God! (See Daniel 2:44 and Daniel 7:9 and 27). Hitler was once speaking about how he was going to rule the whole world from Germany. A young girl told him that bible prophecy show’s he couldn’t, for only Rome was to be the last ruler. What was Hitler’s reply? He made it clear he will be the conqueror of the world! To bad for him, his kingdom was conquered and he died.

 

[Catdan]

Now notice something peculiar about this last kingdom. Daniel speaks of it in these terrifying words, “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth (Notice how the last kingdom of the image is also of iron) it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.”

Notice as you keep reading, Daniel, while hearing the angels interpretation of this fourth beast, is told this beast (kingdom) has 10 horns, and one “little” horn came up out of these 10 horns and “plucked up” 3 of the preceding horns (read Daniel 7:8 and 20).

Lets break it down: The Ten horns represent ten kings (Daniel 7:24). Therefore, an “extra” king rose up out of these Ten, and he “plucked up” or destroyed “three” preceding kings.

Well out of this we can give the first identifying mark in finding out who the antichrist will be. How do I know this “little horn” power is antichrist? Well, “Anti” means "opposite or “in place of” and this little horn king makes himself “opposite” of God by speaking “great words against the most high,” trying to change God’s laws, and by wearing “out the saints of the most high” (Daniel 7:25). This little horn power is the antichrist!

Wait, but why the TEN horns? Well remember how this beast power is Rome? And remember how a “horn” represents kings? Well take a look at your map, The Roman Empire has been divided and now we have WESTERN EUROPE! (this happened between 351 AD and 476 AD).

Here are the 10 divisions by ancient and modern name:

(1) Alemanni - Germany
(2) Franks - France
(3) Anglo-Saxons - England
(4) Burgundians - Switzerland
(5) Visigoths - Spain
(6) Suevi - Portugal
(7) Lombards - Italy
(8) Heruli
(9) Vandals
(10) Ostrogoths

Why don’t you see the last three, Heruli, Vandals and the Ostrogoths, on your map? Simply because these are the 3 horns that the antichrist “plucked up.”

So now we have FIVE identification marks to help us identify the Antichrist:

(1) He will rise up out of the Ten divisions of Rome
(2) He will destroy 3 of the kings among these Ten divisions
(3) He will “speak great words against the most high”
(4) He will “wear out” the saints of God. He is a persecuting power
(5) He “thinks to change times and laws” Daniel 7:25

Well now this makes sense. Look at Rome today, it is not as strong as it was when it ruled the world before it was divided, but Rome still exists! That’s why the feet of the image in Daniel 2 still have the same “iron” as the legs, except this time its only “party” strong, as she is today. Do you realize what this means? WE ARE LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS OF LIFE ON EARTH! Because in the dream we see a STONE which “smote” it at it’s feet, and destroyed it. This stone is the kingdom of God (Daniel 2:44).

 

[Catdan]

Lets keep going:

Now we have FIVE things that can help us identify who the Antichrist is, but there’s more, a lot more. Let’s now turn to Revelation 13 and 17. Before continuing, we need to understand how Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, and Revelation 13 and 17 are speaking about the same “beast” power. Lets do that now:

First Revelation 13. Notice how the first beast in Revelation 13 rises up out of the “sea” (Rev. 13:1) as does the Roman beast of Daniel 7:3. Notice also how the beast in Revelation 13:1 has “ten” horns as does the Roman beast in Daniel 7:19-20. Again, notice how the beast in Revelation 13:5-6 speaks “great words and blasphemy” as does the beast in Daniel 7:8 and 25. Here are two more clues, I’ll leave the best one for last. Take note how the beast in Revelation 13:7 also “persecutes” the saints of the most high as does the beast power in Daniel 7:25. Now, look at this amazing clue: Read Revelation 13:2. Here it is:

“And the beast which I saw was like unto a Leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a Bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a Lion…”

Did you notice something here; those are the characteristics of the three beasts which were BEFORE the fourth Roman beast! (Read Daniel 2:31-46). This means that, as Daniel looked Foreword into the future and saw all the beasts in order, John was looking Backwards! This also indicates that the Fourth beast has characteristics of the three beasts before him; namely, speediness (Greece) bloodshed (Medes and Persians) and PAGANISM (Babylon)!

So now we know that the beast of Revelation 13 is the same Roman power of Daniel 2 and 7. Revelation 13 now provides some “extra” clues in identifying who the antichrist is. But before we do that, lets see if the “whore” riding the beast in Revelation 17 is ALSO the same Roman power of Revelation 13. We need to know this because Revelation 17 also gives us MORE identifying marks as to who the antichrist is. Follow me…

“And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.” Revelation 17:1

There are those “waters” again. The same as Revelation 13:1 and Daniel 7:3. Remember, “sea, waters” represent “peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues” Revelation 17:15. Hey here’s another clue, this “whore” also speaks great words against the most High, for she speaks “blasphemy” (Read Revelation 17:3) as does the Beast of Revelation 13:5 and the Beast of Daniel 7:8, 25. Notice the third clue, Revelation 17:6 (Compare this with Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7) she is also a persecuting power! Also, did you notice those 7 heads and Ten horns on the beast she is riding? The same as the beast in Revelation 13:1!

“If something looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck, well, it’s probably a duck, right?” -Steve Wolberg

So here we have it, the fourth Roman beast of Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, are the same monstrous power of Revelation 13 and the whore in Revelation 17! Now, take note, Revelation 13 verse 3 says, “all the world wondered after the beast.” This word “wondered” means, “admire, popular.” Verse 4 says they worshiped the beast. That’s another clue, this antichrist will be a “religious” and “political” one! Why do I say political? Well its obvious that if this beast is a “kingdom” with a king, or leader, and we know kingdoms pass laws and have governors, that this beast is religious (he wants ‘worship’) AND political (Notice also how this beast causes ‘war’ Rev. 13:7). Verse 5 says he spoke “blasphemy” which according to the bible, means to claim to be God and to forgive sins (See John 10:33, Mark 2:7).

I want you to notice something important about this fourth beast, the antichrist. Read closely Daniel 8:20-27. After Rome takes over Greece, notice how this Roman beast deceive the nations with “peace!” Study Daniel 8 verse 25. That’s another clue!

 

[Catdan]

Back to Revelation, lets now look for more characteristics from chapter 17. Notice how this “whore” also rides a different beast. This beast she rides is a part of her, since she is on top of it and is riding it. The women is “leading” this beast, and this beast is the beast of Revelation 13:1 because it also has those 7 heads and 10 horns (Revelation 17:3). If she is leading this beast, which we have identified as Rome, she must represent the LEADER (a city – Revelation 17:18) of Rome! Look at her closely, she is RICH (Revelation 17:4) she dwells between the 7 heads of the beast, which represents 7 MOUNTIANS (Revelation 17:9) she causes confusion because on her forehead is written the word “BABYLON” and Babylon means “confusion” study about that meaning in the story of the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11. This women is also a great “city” (Revelation 17:18) sitting upon many “people” (Revelation 17:15). She is a “women” and a woman in bible prophecy can either represent a “pure church” (Matthew 25:1-13, Revelation 19:7, Jeremiah 6:3) or an “evil church” (Ezekiel 16:15-58). And get this, she wears certain colors, they are “purple” and “scarlet” (see the first part of Rev. 17:4)! Have I lost you yet? Hope not, lets keep going. Notice this also, Daniel chapter 11 verse 37, speaking of the same opposing power, says, “Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women…” 1 Timothy 4:1-3 speaks of latter apostate who will forbid marriage! Here’s an extra clue… this antichrist has to claim that Jesus did NOT come in the Flesh:

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” 1 John 4:3

Before I lay out the rest of the identifying marks in order, we need to understand one more thing about the antichrist. Its clear so far that the antichrist is more like a religious/political system then a person. But remember how this kingdom has a “little horn” power? Notice in Daniel 7:8 how out of the Fourth Roman kingdom the little horn has “eyes as a man” and a mouth. Now go back to Revelation 13 which speaks about this same leading man, Revelation 13:18 helps us understand that this antichrist system has a literal antichrist MAN at its head! Another clue!

“Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the BEAST: for it is the number of a MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and Six (666).” (Keep in mind that it’s a man, and not a women, see also 2 Thessalonians 2:3).

Now, lets get those Identifying marks.

1. He will rise up out of the ten divisions of Rome.

1. He will destroy three of these kings of these ten divisions, the Heruli,
   Vandals and the Ostrogoths

1. He will “speak great words against the most high” Meaning, he will speak “blasphemy” (Rev. 13:5), which means to claim to be God and to forgive sins (See John 10:33, Mark 2:7).

1. He will “wear out” the saints of God. He is a persecuting power.

1. He “thinks to change times and laws” Daniel 7:25.

1. He resides in Rome and deceives the nations with “peace.”

1. His kingdom is a Political and Religious kingdom, meaning he has unity between “church” and “state.”

1. Is a great “city” which resides in Rome between 7 mountains (Revelation 17:9 and 18).

1. He is a “man” and his name will equal 666

1. He and his kingdom (the city –Rev. 17:18) are a “Rich” church (Rev. 17:4), wearing the colors purple and scarlet.

1. He does not desire ‘women’ and forbids marriage.

1. He is famous and everyone admires him (Rev. 13:3) and is among many “peoples and nations and tongues” as represented by the “sea and waters” Rev. 17:15.

1. He denies Jesus came in the flesh (1 John 4:3).

Can you figure out who this beast power is? Let me give you THREE more identifying Marks:

1. This antichrist rules for “42 months” or “3 ½ years” and during this time it persecutes and kills thousand of saints (See Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5).

1. After this time period his power is taken from him and he dies “receives a deadly wound to death” but his power is then given back to him “deadly wound is healed,” read Revelation 13:3.

1. The beast is one that was, is not, yet is (Revelation 17:8).

In part 2 of this booklet we will identify who this antichrist system and man is with these 16 identification marks and we will also look at these last three. Get ready, pray, open your scriptures… and be ready for a shocker!

 

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Who is the Antichrist? Part 2
Identifying Him

If you have not read part 1 of this study, please do not read part 2 until you do so, since it can only cause unnecessary confusion. “Let all things be done decently and in order.” -1 Corinthians 14:40.

Now that we know that the antichrist resides in ROME, we need to find out who in Rome fits all 16 biblical identifying marks. Some say the Antichrist was the Emperor Nero, because he furiously attacked and killed thousands of Christians. Nero was certainty a antichrist, but he wasn’t THE antichrist… why? Well he does not fit all 16 of the identification marks we have come up with in part 1. Nevertheless, someone fits all these, and we are about to find out who it is. Come, let us reason together…

“He that answereth (to turn back, see your concordance) a matter before he heareth it, it is folly (silliness) and shame (disgrace) unto him.” –Proverbs 18:13

1. He will rise up out of the ten divisions of Rome.

It’s a proven fact that the Roman Catholic Church (after is has turned into a supposed Christian church, not while being Pagan Rome), with the Popes at its head, is found within Western Europe, and it came up ‘among’ the ten divisions, and ‘after’ the ten horns (Daniel 7:24). The first Pope was Constantine at about 313 A.D. The “Papacy” came into the picture with power after 476 A.D., and at 538 AD was where the papacy received complete power of church and state with military protection. It was in 476 AD that PAGAN Rome fell, which resulted in the formation of these 10 kingdoms.

1. He will destroy three of these kings of these ten divisions, the Heruli, Vandals and the Ostrogoths.

In his rise to power, all of Eastern Europe bowed the knee to the Pope except these three Gothic tribes. These were destroyed:

-The Heruli – destroyed by the Roman Pope in 492AD

-The Vandals – destroyed by the Roman Pope in 534AD

-The Ostrogoths – destroyed by the Roman Pope in 538AD

The power of these kings were given to the Pope. The power of the Papacy was established by Justinian’s decree in 533 AD and was carried out by force of arms in 538 AD with the overthrow of the Ostrogoths by Justinian’s general, Belisarius. 538 AD was the beginning reign of terror of the Papacy with full power, where he began to use threats of torture and death to force others to bow to the Pope and to the authority of the Catholic Church. This is also where the 1260-year prophecy begins. More on this on Identification mark #14.

“Catholic emperors of the eastern empire found ways to help the pope by eliminating three of the Arian tribes. (These “Arian type” nations would not agree with the pope’s plans) The Catholic emperor Zeno (474-491) arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the eradication of the kingdom of the Arian Heruls in 492. And the catholic emperor Justinian (527-565) exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and signifcally broke the power of the Arian Ostrogoths in 538.” -The Heruls, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths - “plucked up by the roots.” -C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares Vol. 1, p. 129

“In 538AD, the year when the Ostrogoths collapsed, it was out of the smoking ruins of the western Roman Empire and after the overthrow of the three Arian kingdoms that the pope of Rome emerged as the most important single individual in the West, the head of a closely organized church with a carefully defined creed and with vast potential for political influence. Dozens of writers have pointed out that the real survivor of the ancient Roman Empire was the Church of Rome.” -E.G. McKenzie, “Catholic Church” p. 14.

(The Divine Program of the World’s History, by H. Grattan Gueness, pp. 318-321.
Historian Machiavelli also comments on the ten divisions of Rome after the death of the last Roman Emperor Romulus Augustus).

 

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1. He will “speak great words against the most high” Meaning, he will speak “blasphemy” (Rev. 13:5), which means to claim to be God and to forgive sins (See John 10:33, Mark 2:7).

Look up those verses, John 10:33 and Mark 2:7. The Priests claim to be able to forgive sins, and the Popes have claimed many times to be God on earth:

“This judicial authority will even include the power to forgive sin.” -The Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol 12, -article “Pope” pg 265

“Thou art the shepherd, thou art the physician, thou art the director, thou art the husbandman, and finally thou art another God on earth.” -Labbe and Coccart’s “History of the Councils,” Volume XIV, col. 109.

The title “Lord God the Pope,” is found in a gloss on the Extravagants of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4, Declaramus.

One of the biblical definitions of “worship” is to “kiss the hand.” Look up the Greek word “proskuneo” translated “worship” in your concordance. Here are some more quotes, look them up yourselves!

“It seems that Pope John Paul II now presides over the universal Church from his place upon Christ’s cross.” -“Auckland Bishop Says Pope Presides From the Cross” AUCKLAND, New Zealand, SEPT. 20, 2004, Zenit.org

“The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God.” -Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” - On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17.

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” -Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”.

“Pope Nicholas I declared that “the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man.” - Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para.

“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty” -Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894

“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.” -Catholic National July 1895.

These quotes are from authoritative works by Catholic dignitaries. For more quotes, refer to the book “National Sunday Law” by A. Jan Marcussen, Appendix 3, p. 77. Contact this ministry for a FREE copy of this book.

1. He will “wear out” the saints of God. He is a persecuting power.

With the killings of faithful martyrs such a Huss and Jerome, the Waldenses, the Lollards, the Bohemians, the killings in Poland, the massacre of Bartholomew, the murders by fire in Spain and Italy, and the secret murders of millions in the cruel institution of the Inquisition, the holy Catholic Church and her Popes are responsible for over 100 million deaths of innocent lovers of Christ. No other institution has killed so many people; the history books are full of blood-soaked page’s of faithful martyrs for Christ.

“More then 300,000 suffered persecution in Spain alone, of whom 31, 912 died in the flames. Millions more were slain for their faith throughout Europe.” Quoted from “The History of the Inquisition in Spain,” by Llorente, pp. 206-208. Printed in Bible Readings for the Home, (Washington: Review & Herald Pub. Assoc., 1942) p. 221.

“The Catholic Church has persecuted … when she thinks it is good to use physical force she will use it… Will the Catholic Church give bond that she will not persecute?.. The Catholic Church gives no bonds for her ‘good behavior’.” -Western Watchman, Dec. 24, 1908 (emphasis added).

“For teaching faith contrary to the teaching of the Church of Rome, history records the martyrdom of more than 100 million people.” -Brief Bible Readings p. 16

For more History reference on this fact: “History of Romanism” (1871 ed.), book 6, chapter 5; sec. 62. “The Western Watchmen (Roman Catholic),” of Louis. “The First Two Visions of Daniel,” by T.R. Birks, M.A., pp. 258, 259. See Identification mark #14 for the prophetic period called the Dark Ages, in which this antichrist system committed most of its persecutions.

 

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1. He “thinks to change times and laws” Daniel 7:25.

In Daniel 7:25, speaking of this fourth king, the antichrist, we are told:

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.” Daniel 7:25

Now compare that with the following quote:

“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” “The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ.” -Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

Which laws has the Roman Catholic Church changed? The second commandment forbidding images, and the fourth commandment! See the Catholic Catechism. Which “law” of God has to do with “time” and is also a “law?” The Sabbath is a law having to do with time; this law has been changed by the Catholic Church, and its no secret:

“It was the Catholic Church which… transferred this rest (Saturday as the Sabbath) to the Sunday… Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.” -Monsignor Louis Segur, “Plain Talk about the Protestantism of Today” page 213.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (from Saturday to Sunday) was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything in matters spiritual and religious without her, and the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.” -Letter from H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the [Catholic] Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power… People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become Seventh-day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” -Saint Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles… From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” -Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August, 1990.

“The Catholic Church of its own infallible authority created Sunday a holy day to take the place of the Sabbath of the old law,” -Kansas City Catholic, February 9, 1893

“The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.” -Canon and Tradition, p. 263

“The seventh-day Sabbath was solemnized * by Christ, the Apostles and the primitive Christians - until the Council of Laodicea did, in a manner, quite abolish the observance of it. The Council (A.D. 364) first settled the observance of the Lord’s Day” -Wm Prynne: Dissertations on the Lord’s Day. Prynne was a 17th century Puritan.
*

 

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"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

1. That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

1. We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change.” -Peter R. Kraemer- Catholic Church Extension Society (1975), Chicago, Illinois.

The Catholic Church also claims that if you are not obeying the true Sabbath, but are instead observing Sunday, you are obeying the authority of the Pope:

“From this we may understand how great is the authority of the church in interpreting or explaining to us the commandments of God- an authority which is acknowledged by the universal practice of the whole Christian world, even of those sects profess to take the holy Scriptures as their sole rule of faith, since they observe as the day of rest not the seventh day of the week demanded by the Bible, but the first day. Which we know is to be kept holy, only from the tradition and teaching of the Catholic church.” - Henry Gibson “Catechism Made Easy” No 2 ninth edition volume one pp. 341, 342 Authoritative quotations on the Sabbath and Sunday.

"The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her Founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant, claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. -The Catholic Universe Bulletin, Aug. 14, 1942, p.4

"It is not yet too late for Protestants to redeem themselves. Will they do it?.. will they indeed take the written word only, the Scripture alone, as their sole authority and their sole standard? Or will they still hold the indefensible, self contradictory, and suicidal doctrine and practice of following the authority of the Catholic church and wear the sign of her authority? Will they keep the Sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, according to Scripture? Or will they keep the Sunday according to the tradition of the Catholic Church, -Rome’s challenge, page 31

God says, “Remember the Sabbath day… for the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God…” Exodus 20:8-11. Yet the Catholic Church says:

“No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church!” -Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802

We will learn in part 3 how important it is to observe the Sabbath, and how dangerous it is to tamper with God’s law and observe Sunday instead. At the end of this part, I will show you some quotes that show how Sunday observance is rooted in pagan sun worship.

 

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1. He resides in Rome and deceives the nations with “peace.”

Pope calls for a new world order
Thursday, January 1, 2004 Posted: 9:21 AM EST (1421 GMT)

VATICAN CITY (AP) – Pope John Paul II rang in the New Year on Thursday with a renewed call for peace in the Middle East and Africa and the creation of a new world order based on respect for the dignity of man and equality among nations.

Pope John Paul is responsible for more peace activity between countries and religions around the world then almost any other person or organization on earth. While peace is good, we need to understand what the true intention of this “peace and safety” movement is really about. Look at the following pictures:

The bible very plainly says:

“What communion hath light with darkness?” 2 Corinthians 6:14

“Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Ephesians 5:11

We need to have Unity and Peace in TRUTH, which Jesus will accomplish in us, not with other religions, which deny Jesus Christ. This type of peace is dangerous… a compromise!

“And when they shall say, Peace and Safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them.” -1 Thessalonians 5:3.

Dr. Alberto Rivera, Ex-Catholic Jesuit, affirms that while he was a dedicated Jesuit, he was being trained on how to infiltrate all protestant churches and Universities in order to introduce Catholic teachings, and to finally in the end move the crowd to preach the “love gospel” who’s goal is to UNITE ALL religions under one banner (to compromise), no matter what name they may have, whether Baptist or Methodist, as long as they are in unity with the Catholic Church through her beliefs. Her goal, in the end, is to set up the ONE WORLD ORDER with the Pope as the leader. Ex-Priest Chiniquy agrees that this is the ultimate goal of the Catholic Church system and the Jesuit order, to unite the world under the banner of the Pope! Read the books “50 years in the Church of Rome” by Chiniquy and “Double-Cross” by Alberto Rivera.

To unite with unbelievers is strictly forbidding in the scriptures (2 Corinthians 6:14). We are not to unite under “love,” we are to unite under the TRUTH which produces true love.

 

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1. His kingdom is a Political and Religious kingdom, meaning he has unity between “church” and “state.”

Remember, a BEAST in prophecy symbolizes a NATION (Daniel 7:23), and this NATION demanding worship (Rev. 14:9), is pictured as a women (Rev. 17:3-6) which in bible prophecy symbolizes a church (Jer. 6:2). This means that its both political and religious. Dr. Alberto Rivera, the ex-Jesuit, affirms:

“No other religious system has [these] two powers, both political and religious.” -The Godfathers, pg. 3.

“The Vatican is a government itself. It is a political state of which every Roman Catholic becomes a member at the time of baptism… Their allegiance should be to Rome first, then to the country in which they were born.” -Double-Cross, pg. 29

1. Is a great “city” which resides in Rome between 7 mountains (Revelation 17:9 and 18).

It is a known fact that Vatican City (the women of Revelation 17) who is riding the beast (Rome) resides between 7 mountains, or hills. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges this:

“It is within the city of Rome, called The City on Seven Hills, that the entire area of Vatican State Proper is now confined” -The Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 529.

ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA
Query ~ Seven Hills of Rome
“…group of hills on or about which the ancient city of Rome was built. The original city of Romulus was built upon Palatine Hill (#1) (Latin: Mons Palatinus). The other hills are the Capitoline, (#2) Quirinal, (#3) Viminal, (#4) Esquiline, (#5) Caelian, (#6) and Aventine (#7) (known respectively in Latin as the Mons Capitolinus, Mons Quirinalis, Mons Viminalis, Mons Esquilinus, Mons Caelius, and Mons Aventinus).” -http://www.britannica.com/seo/s/seven-hills-of-rome/

 

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1. He is a “man” and his name will equal 666.

The chosen language of the Roman Church is Latin. Is is both their ALPHABET and numeric system. This numeric system is called: ROMAN NUMERALS. Now notice this:

The name “JOHN PAUL II” in Latin is: IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO

(John)
IOANES
I = 1, O = 0, A = 0, N = 0, E = 0, S = 0. TOTAL = 1

(Paul)
PAVLVS
P = 0, A = 0, V = 5, L = 50, V = 5, S = 0. TATAL = 60

(II)
SECVNDO
S = 0, E = 0, C = 100, V = 5, N = 0, D = 500, O = 0. TATAL = 605

GRAND TOTAL: 605 + 60 + 1 = 666

"The letters inscribed in the Pope’s miter are these ‘VICARIUS FILII DEI’. which is the Latin for ‘VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD.’ Catholics hold that the church, which is a visible society, must have a visible head… as head of the church, was given the title, ‘VICAR OF CHRIST’. -Our Sunday Visitor, (Catholic Weekly) ‘Bureau of information,’ Huntington, Ind., April 18, 1915.

Vicarius Filii Dei, is cited by the rector of Berlin, Andreas Helwig [or Helwich] (1572-1643) in his Antichristus Romanus. Take a look at this website for more documents which contain this title: VICARIUS FILII DEI 666, The Number of the Beast"

This same exact title for the Pope is used on pages 114 and 122 of this book called, “The Keys of this Blood.” By Malachi Martin, who is a Roman Catholic author.

Let see if this title of the popes will equal 666:

VICARIUS
V = 5, I = 1, C = 100, A = 0, R = 0, I = 1, U = 5, S = 0. TOTAL = 112

FILII
F = 0, I = 1, L = 50, I = 1, I = 1. TOTAL = 53

DEI
D = 500, E = 0, I = 1. TOTAL = 501

GRAND TOTAL = 501 + 112 + 53 = 666

ALL the popes have this title because it means they are all the “Vicar of the Son of God” here on earth.

In HEBREW, the phrase “Roman Man” will also equal 666. Read closely:

(Roman Man)
ROMITI
R = 200, O = 6, M = 40, I = 10, T = 400, I = 10. TOTAL = 666

TOTAL = 666

There are over 50 titles for the pope and his city and religion that will equal 666. Titles such as Vicar of the Court, Italian Church, Roman Kingdom and Holy light of God which is what the Vatican sometimes calls herself. Contact the ministry for references on these.

 

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1. He and his kingdom (the city –Rev. 17:18) are a “Rich” church (Rev. 17:4) wearing the colors purple and scarlet.

“The Catholic Church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual in the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars.” –The Vatican Billions, by Avro Manhattan.

Scarlet in the bible represents “SIN” -Isaiah 1:18. Notice in the Pictures below, the PURPLE and SCARLET colors of the Roman Popes and Priests:

"…deplored the roman popes as “monsters of guilt” and declared in a council called by the King of France in 991ad that the pontiff, clad in purple and gold, was, “Antichrist, sitting in the temple of God, and showing himself as God” -Phillip Schaff, History of the Christian church, 8 vols., reprint of the 3d (1910)ed. (Grand Rapids Mich.: Wm. B Eerdmans Publishing Co., n.d.)

 

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1. He does not desire “women” and forbids marriage.

“Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.” -Daniel 11:37.

“In the latter some shall depart from the faith… speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry…” 1 Timothy 4:1-3.

The Catholic Church, through her institution of nuns and priests, and monastery, forbids marriage. See the following quote:

“Celibacy is the renunciation of marriage implicitly or explicitly made, for the more perfect observance of chastity, by all those who receive the Sacrament of Orders in any of the higher grades.” -Catholic Encyclopedia: newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm).

Yet God blesses marriage, and the bible says we are NOT to forbid marriage (1 Timothy 3:2; 1 Corinthians 7:9, 36).

“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife” 1 Timothy 3:2

Have you noticed how this antichrist has tampered with both the Sabbath and Marriage (Genesis 1:28 and Genesis 2:1-3), the only two institutions instituted BEFORE sin?

1. He is famous and everyone admires him (Rev. 13:3) and is among many “peoples and nations and tongues” as represented by the “sea and waters” Rev. 17:15.

Notice the following quotes:

“During his reign, the pope travelled extensively, visiting over 100 countries, more than any of his predecessors. He was said to have canonized more people than all popes before him put together (though early records are incomplete). Pope John Paul II was extremely popular worldwide, attracting the largest crowds in history. One of his popular phrases in the early part of his reign was to tell huge crowds “John Paul 2…he loves you…” Pope John Paul II died in the Papal Apartments while a vast crowd kept vigil in St Peter’s Square below. Millions of people flocked to Rome to pay their respects to the body and for his funeral. ” -From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_II.

“Pope John Paul II was one of the most significant world figures in the 20th century and one of the most famous popes in the history of the Catholic church. His unprecedented willingness to travel the world and his media savvy allowed him to reach over 1 billion Catholic parishioners in over 100 countries during his long tenure as pope. He drew huge crowds of devoted followers wherever he went, and no doubt many of them will seek to remember him long after his reign has ended.” –Taken from: www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=82160

“The anniversary of Pope John Paul II’s death was remembered last night at the Vatican by Pope Benedict XVI and tens of thousands of people who gathered in and around St. Peter’s Square during a candlelight vigil.” –Monday, April 03, 2006. Pope John Paul II is Remembered.

“Looking tired, Benedict led nearly 100,000 pilgrims, tourists and Romans in Mass in St. Peter’s Square.” -Pope Benedict XVI Celebrates Easter Mass, Turns 79. Sunday, Aril 16, 2006 – Yahoo! News.

The world really does “wonder after the beast!”

 

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1. He denies Jesus came in the flesh (1 John 4:3).

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” 1 John 4:3

The antichrist has to deny Jesus came in the flesh. Let’s look up the greek word “flesh” in the greek Lexicon and see what it can mean:

Strong’s Hebrew/Greek Concordance:

sarx: Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh (-ly]).

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon:

Thayer Definition:

1. flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts

1. the body 2a) the body of a man 2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship 2b1) born of natural generation 2c) the sensuous nature of man, “the animal nature” 2c1) without any suggestion of depravity 2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin 2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering

1. a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast

1. the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

Now… what is our human nature? What are all human beings guilty of according to the bible? They are all guilty of SIN (Romans 3:23). Our human nature if our “want” to, or being “prone” to sin. The bible teaches that although Jesus never sinned, he became sin for us (2 Cor. 5:21). It teaches that Jesus came through the line of David (Matthew 1:1) yet David said, “Behold, I was shapen in INIQUITY; and in SIN did my mother conceive me.” -Psalm 51:5. This means that the whole line of David was a lineage individuals with a nature to sin, including Jesus. This is how Jesus, being God, could be tempted to sin (compare James 1:13 with Hebrews 4:15) because he became man, and being made into a man he had the same human nature as man… the ability to sin.

So, how does the Roman Catholic Church teach that Jesus did not come in the flesh (human nature)? Well when they teach that the Virgin Mary was sinless at her conception of the baby Jesus, they in essence teach that Jesus has not come in the flesh, because Jesus came through her lineage, and as David had a nature to sin, she also had a nature to sin. Read the following quote from a Roman Catechism:

1. "Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, ‘full of grace’ through God, [Lk 1:28 .] was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of JESUS Christ, Saviour of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. -Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus (1854): DS 2803.

View the online version of The Catechism of the Catholic Church ziplink.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/kerygma/a.pl .

To say that Jesus came into the world this way, born of a virgin who was not of sinful “flesh” as we are all in our human nature, is to say he did not come in the “flesh” of sinful nature because he came through HER lineage!

Now it could be said that Mary overcame the sinful nature as did Jesus, but this would put Mary at the same level as Jesus, and would contradict the following scripture:

“And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” -Luke 1:47

If Mary was not a sinner, why did she need a savior? (see also Romans 3:23).

Also, the above Catechism quote speaks about original sin, and Rome defines original sin like this:

“Question. What is Original Sin? Answer. Original Sin is the sin we inherit from Adam, the Father of the Human Race.” -The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine. p. 41

But the bible says different:

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” Ezekiel 18:20

We do not inherit Adams sins. We are NEVER born with original sin; in fact, people bearing original sin does not exist in the bible. What we are cursed with is a Sinful Nature, which is our Human Nature. However, we do NOT inherit the sins of our fathers. So while Jesus NEVER sinned, he was born with the human sinful nature to sin, through a sinful mother who was also of human sinful nature. To say otherwise is to say that Jesus “cheated” when he overcame sin, and would also make you “antichrist.” The Popes of Rome, with their “immaculate conception” theory, fulfill this Identification mark to the very end.