I’m the one who used the word “sect”. It was not meant in a complimentary way but you could hardly say it was name calling. I use it because I am not convinced the SDA are Christian. Perhaps a better description would be “cult”. You speak of being silly, but what is really silly is the way you carve out scriptures that back your point of view, and completely ignore the rest of it. You act as if the Hebrew “ceremonial” laws of the OT were somehow less important than the 10 commandments. It’s like you divide God’s word into the major and minor categories . For a cult that believes in Sola Scriptura I wonder what scriptural evidence you use to back this doctrine? You say the lesser scriptures that contain the ceremonial laws were done away with on the cross, but not others? Who decided then what laws were done away with, and which ones were retained??? Is this in scripture? Or did one of your prophets come up with it?This discussion is becoming a little silly now. Name calling ‘sect’, please javl I’m sure you can be a little more mature like your age and keep it civil. It’s the 4th commandment that talks about the Sabbath not the 3rd. We will keep on going around in a circle with this issue because sda believe in the authority of God not the authority of man to change the laws. I think it’s as simple as that. No one is going change each others beliefs unless the Holy Spirit impresses them to see the truth. And I’m sure we all believe that our own churches have the truth!!! Right. The ceremonial laws were done away with at the cross not the ten commandments, other wise could you imagine our world without them??? Law and order would be worse then it already is.
The SDA has not decided that it is Saturday God did. Jesus never gave the power to change the decaloge in MT16:19 or anywhere else in the bible. The fact that **you have chosen **Sunday sounds really noble and holy and all that, but it is not what the commandment says.It is you who are trying to justify your position. We do take one day out of the week and give it totally and completely to God.
The SDA has decided that it is on a Saturday. We, with God’s authority ( Jesus, Mt 16:19 ), have chosen Sunday, which is the day of His resurrection. We commemorate and honor that event and worship Him on that day. We ARE NOT in disobedience.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
How is calling you a sect being name calling? I did not call you a cult ( which so far you are not ). Sect is a title of distinction, much like denomination. And I do resent your insinuation for me to act my age. Have you no other way of answering me? And I have kept my posts a civil as possible.This discussion is becoming a little silly now. Name calling ‘sect’, please javl I’m sure you can be a little more mature like your age and keep it civil. It’s the 4th commandment that talks about the Sabbath not the 3rd. We will keep on going around in a circle with this issue because sda believe in the authority of God not the authority of man to change the laws. I think it’s as simple as that. No one is going change each others beliefs unless the Holy Spirit impresses them to see the truth. And I’m sure we all believe that our own churches have the truth!!! Right. The ceremonial laws were done away with at the cross not the ten commandments, other wise could you imagine our world without them??? Law and order would be worse then it already is.
Thanks Javl noticed you edited out the sect name calling very nice of you. Also noticed that the number of your post before this one of mine was 666. Now that’s gotta make you giggle!!!
Traditional Catholics worship continually.Hi everyone. What are some of the main beliefs of the Seventh Day Adventist Church? What do they get wrong and what do they get right? I know that they believe in worshiping only on the sabbath which they believe is Saturday. Catholics have services both on Saturday and on Sunday. Also, why did the Catholic Church change the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?
How do you figure this. You can’t argue that he kept Sunday from those posts. So it can’t go any way you want it.
Ya this is exactly my point.
I don’t know where you got this idea. It wasn’t from me.
Talk about ambiguity. I’m not sure what you mean here. Let me just say That for a time there in the book of Acts Paul preaches to both Jews and Greeks in the Jewish synagoge on the Sabbath day, not Sunday and what he preaches there is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. With I might add a great deal of success.
I’m sorry brother, I really don’t know what your point is here.
Well, it wasn’t Peter that changed the law. James does.
Paul has something to say about this in Romans2:25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
The Sabbath is different because it is part of the decalogue and is forever.
Again, as I and others have stated in prior posts. It’s an issue of authority. And I challenge the idea that SDA are “true Bible keepers”. Getting to pick and choose which of God’s commandments you want to keep does not qualify to that description. You choose not to respond to my previous posts concerning the authority that Jesus gave to his Church in the scriptures. Indeed, you would not even answer a simple question about your sects position on abortion. Can I take from your silence that the SDA believe that abortion is an acceptable moral choice? If so I can see why you are ashamed to admit it. Because we hold your feet to the fire on these important differences between us doesn’t mean we are behaving un-Christ like. After all this entire forum is all about WWJD, and if John 3:16 said it all then there wouldn’t be any need for the rest of the Bible would there?With some of the name calling and judging going on here mainly by certain individuals I wonder WWJD. Very sad.
In recent times that I have been posting I have only see infomation backed up by what the bible says. But the disputed by the CC forum members as being false or not relevent any more because man changed the laws.(the Catholic Church). I’m sure God would be very sad to see some of the comments made to individuals who are true God Loving bible keepers for the lord. Never once did Jesus say become CC/Mormans/SDA or what ever, he want us to love him and His commandment. As simple as that. John 3:16 says it all.
And, maybe that is the root for some of this disagreement. So, let’s at least separate fact from fiction here…I really do not think Javl meant any disrespect by using this term. And, while there can be a negative meaning - it is not the first definition. Let’s not go looking for insults when there is none specific.
You are right…from your point of view!
There was an interesting table that I was unable to copy and paste which identifies this commandment may be listed as either the 3rd or the 4th! Here is the link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_CommandmentsSo, how do you explain (Matt 16) when Christ (God) gave the authority to change ANYTHING to Peter (man)? To claim that God is CHANGELESS is great - to claim that His revelation does not CHANGE is simply wrong. God moved from establishing the Jews as His Chosen People (and this was not recinded!) to welcoming everyone in Christ. God did not present Christ as Our Savior in the Garden of Eden - a lot of time passed betweent the First Sinners and the Sinless One. Specific things DO change…but, God does not change.
And, there hangs the tale.
The reference for this - as it relates to Sabbath worship - is what?The ceremonial laws were done away with at the cross not the ten commandments, other wise could you imagine our world without them??? Law and order would be worse then it already is.
… so, let me try again.God bless,
Now, maybe this is my imagination … but it looks like there are some curious similarities between Catdan and P101 … e.g., topic evasion and simply ignoring posts.Thank you Tom, for you response to Catdan. I was really miffed and did not answer in charity. I should have known better. Anyway, you did a better job. Many thanks, again. God Bless.
Len
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
Don’t get your hopes up. I have an aquaintance who is SDA who does the same thing. It’s like they disengage with a robotic reflex if the data recieved does not fall within the parameters of their programming.Hi, Len,
You are more then welcomed.
Now, maybe this is my imagination … but it looks like there are some curious similarities between Catdan and P101 … e.g., topic evasion and simply ignoring posts.
The criticism was that SDA would rather evade then engage … and P101 was the ‘poster boy’ for that characterization. If Catdan follows in his example, it will be very discouraging…
God bless
With regard to the abortion issue for me the 10 commandment say thou shall not kill, thats my answer.I may be wrong but I thought you were SDA?..If so my question related to the official policy of the SDA regarding abortion. I see you are pro-life that’s good, but what about the SDA church?Hi Guys, Sorry been away again. I have provided a document that I believe is factual for my beliefs. Re read it to find the answers to the questions that you have asked, that is why I posted it into this forum. No ducking or weaving around your questions I’m pretty sure its in those posts.
This is great! We are hearing what you think, and that is what an exchange of ideas is all about. I would have to disagree about your interpretation of Matt 16. I have had other protestants say pretty much the same thing, but I could never reconcile the fact that when Jesus bestowed the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven he was not speaking to a crowd he was speaking to one man, St Peter. There is also the OT reference in Isaiah were the Keys to the household were bestowed as a symbol of the stewards authority which again was given to one man.
Except for the break with the eastern Church for the first 1,500 years we Christians were all of one faith, and religion. The so called reformers are responsible for that continuing division among Christians.This whole issue of us call our selves a certian religion is my biggest problem, I prefer to call myself “A Follower of Jesus” as simple as that. Anyway thats it for me tonight off to bed night night.
Hi Guys, Sorry been away again. I have provided a document that I believe is factual for my beliefs. Re read it to find the answers to the questions that you have asked, that is why I posted it into this forum. No ducking or weaving around your questions I’m pretty sure its in those posts.
A re Matt 16:18-19 I believe that it really means that Jesus is saying that the keys maybe the opportunity to bring people to the kingdom of heaven by presenting them with the message of salvation found in God’s word. Catdan, this is an incredible distortion and misrepresentation. I fully realize that your religion does not believe that Christ founded that Catholic Church on Peter - and somehow E.G.White got into the process … but just look at the words and how you have changed them
**Matt 16:17-19
17
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **
and here is what you have done to them…,
*
“Revised per Catdan” Matt 16…
Peter I am not giving you keys - rather, I am giving you an opportunity to give people a message about getting to a kingdom.
This message is not yet defined by Me but, there will be no leadership and you will not lead. You will not be in charge. You will change nothing.
People who hear this message of salvation will only be able to read the Old Testament because nothing else has been written. Got that?*
Jesus want us all to go and tell the world of the Good news of Jesus’s second coming. Act 3:19 is telling us to turn back from your sinful ways and surrender yourself in faith to God.
Catdan, politicians are noted for their ability to evade straight forward questions because they simply do not want to be pinned down and have to explain to one group why they supported another group. Employing the same technique is a problem when trying to discuss religion. Ultimately, it shows up as simply hollow. P101 was apparently gifted at dancing around an issue he chose to talk at - there were many he just ignored. You appear to be following closesly in those misdirected footsteps.
This whole issue of us call our selves a certian religion is my biggest problem, I prefer to call myself “A Follower of Jesus” as simple as that.
Unfortunately, Christ did not lay out His Plan as simple as that. If you will note, His Plan calls for Obedience to the Father, carrying one’s cross and actually believing what He says. Matt 16 is a classic example of where God the Father selected Peter, Christ entrusted Peter with God’s Own Authority and we are to believe that God is protecting His Church from the Gates of Hell. What I understand you to be saying is, "I’m a follower. I do not believe what You said, I will not act on what You said, but, I am a follower - and, I am a follower because I say I am a follower. It is as simple as that.
If it is “rules” you are focused on then you will get tripped up with virtually everyone…every organization has rules. If it is eternal life you are interested in, then do your homework and find out about where you are and what problems you are now having - and how you think changing is going to help.I have also looked into this church. The catch for me is setting unrealistic goals to fit in and not to get caught up in legalist thinking. From my own research into the SDA Church I’ve concluded that long term I just won’t get along unless I do the following:
(Those three alone are a major changes requiring tremendous self discipline and time to achieve)
- Cease drinking coffee
- Quit smoking
As a Registered Nurse - these are not bad things to give up. As a general statement, people take in too much coffee - and there is no serious literature that identifies any health benefit to smoking. So, giving up these items would be considered as a health benefit that you can give yourself - and actually save money on if you give them up!- Become a vegetarian or use meat only in accordance with Old Testament laws.
This is a mixed bag… I think most of the medical profession has identified that we eat too much red meat. But, not all we need comes from plants (most does, however). So, before going for number 3 - check with your doctor…
Honest #1 & #2 are worth considering for your own heath. But, if you are giving them up becuse this is a requirement of a religion you want to join …then you need to do some solid research. Christ told us that we are to carry our cross daily - so tremendous self discipline and time are needed to follow this command. Being fearful of doubtful about something because of the work required is not a solid reason for having doubts! Pick up your New Testament and read Matthew 16 - the whole chapter. Look what happened to Peter: God the Father selected him over all the other Apostles and Christ gave him the Keys to the Kingdom and God’s Power to change anything Peter wanted to change! If you believe the NT, then read the plain words presented here. The Church that Christ founded on Peter is the Catholic Church. E. G. White has nothing to do with this - she was not selected by God as evidenced by there being no entries like Matthew 16 in the NT.
Items #4 and #5 are simply man made rules - or, as they like to say - human traditions. Your wearing jewelry or makeup - by itself - has nothing to do with following Christ. Recall Christ chided the Pharisees for straining out the gnat but swallowing the camel (Matt 23:24). There really are more important things in the Law: Love God with all of your heart, and your neighbor as yourself was the summary that Christ gave and it captures the entire spirit of what we have before us.
- Never wear jewelry (I bead so I wear jewelry).
- Minimal makeup (I’m training to be a makeup artist as we speak)
Best wishes on your course work in makeup artistry.
As I am with the virgin Mary, I’m also uneasy about the prophet Ellen White.
- No “Saturday” activities requiring effort, it’s the Sabbath.
If you are interested in following Christ - the same Christ Who fulfilled the Law - then this no longer applies. We are not to work 7-days a week and we are to set aside the day of workship for the Lord - but, look how the Pharisees at the time of Christ had thoroughly corupted this Law so that legalism was the rule of the day - not charity.
I really do not know what you mean by being “…with the virgin Mary…”. Would you please explain this to me? Now, when it comes to E. G. White, I think she was a girl who was hit in the head and went off on a tangent. Just read about her life. If you want to follow Christ, then following Him through the Chruch He founded would be a good indication that you are faithfully following Him.
This calls for a radical change from what you are doing now. But, I would recommend that you do a careful study of your own religion, of the SDA religion and of the Catholic Church. You will find that the Catholic Church has the authority of God that Christ gave to Peter - and Pope Benedict XVI is the direct successor of Peter - not E.G.White or anyone else. This does not mean that the Popes are perfect - they all were sinful men - beginning with Peter who denied Christ! (It is hard to beat that for severity!) But, Christ forgave Peter and refocused the Apostles after the Resurection on the Mission to save the world. E. G. White is simply a false prophet and is leading people away from Christ.
Im still interested in trying it out but I do have concerns about the rules.