Seventh Day Adventists

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Hi, Catdan,

Surely you do not think that everything of value and everlasting merit is in Bible…do you? Just look how St. John ends his Gospel - telling people that a lot more happened! Jesus did more things then are recorded - or could be recorded (at least by these human writers).

Why do you feel obligated to say, “This is it - Sabbath or sin!” E.G.White is about as far removed from the Church founded by Jesus Christ as the East is from the West? Tell me, did White:

1.) have a special revelation from God? Forget about asking if that is in Scripture - did she prove it? (Recall Miller tried to prove his revelation - and failed both time - called the Great Disappointment.)

2.) produce miracles to show to all she was appointed by God to make this announcement? Please identify the miracle(s). From my research - none exist.

3.) lead a life that focused on bringing all to Christ - instead of establishing yet another splinter protestant cult with yet another gimick? From my research - she just did her ‘thing’ and lead others away from Christ by fixating on the Sabbath.
Catdan said:
where does Jesus say to do this for Him. No where in the bible at all may I suggest.

Jesus tells us that He is here to do the will of the Father. Jesus tells us to pick up our cross and follow Him - because He is following the Will of the Father. Jesus further tells us to love one another and to stop putting stumbling blocks out for others to trip on - this Sabbath ritualism is just such a stumbling block. Why? Because Christ founded a Chruch on Peter and gave this weak man - and his successors - all the way to Benedict XVI - the delegated Power of God to make or lose anything (Matt 16).

At the end of the day forget the info I have provided we all love The same God and that’s I sure that what He really cares about.

If that is the way you want it. Out this way, it is the ‘end of the day’. Catdan,

Your right I can’t prove anything I just happen to trust in God and live in hope of his soon coming. We all have access to the Holy Spirit not just a church because the church are his people. That’s you and me. 👍

We all must place our trust in God - and to be like little children in our approach to Him - for such is the kingdom of heaven.

God bless you
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Catdan, Christ did not tell us to rely only on scripture did he?
Instead Christ established his Church.(and that is in the Bible). Why then would anyone want to rely on just the bible???
 
All keep the Sabbath on Sunday, not because they are forced to, but because they understand why and do so for HIM.
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where does Jesus say to do this for Him. No where in the bible at all may I suggest.
At the end of the day forget the info I have provided we all love The same God and that’s I sure that what He really cares about. Your right I can’t prove anything I just happen to trust in God and live in hope of his soon coming. We all have access to the Holy Spirit not just a church because the church are his people. That’s you and me. 👍
 
Hi, (name removed by moderator),

“Laughable” is an upgrade! Here is a link on this Revera crook: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Rivera… maybe Catdan would be interested in a secular source’s view of Rivera.

I guess I was napping… I totally missed this Chick character as being one of the sources. There is a Wiki link on Chick when you click to the Rivera link.

You know, whether Catdan believes our presentations or not is immaterial. If she is to honestly believe her own sources, then they must be without blemish…without prejudice…and surely, without fraud. The ‘historian’ that goes in with the idea of assembling the ‘facts’ to fit his needs to discredit another group is dishonest. People who believe what he says have been fooled. People who continue to believe him - after he is exposed - are totally lost.

Jack Chick is simply beyond contempt. His only agenda is to attack the Catholic Church. Now, I realize that his ideas fit in very neatly with the SDA view of the CC … but, some may actually wonder how discredited bigots could actually present a credible story - or, are they just pitching to a crowd who is itself already biased and thoroughtly compromised? In the last analysis - Chick has to sell his materials to stay in business. Unthinking and biased groups are his fair prey! Catdan, you have been had.

God bless
 
I am the poster about Rivera. I only had posted from what I had read and what I had been told from so-called reliable sources. I also have heard about a bishop too that Chick has in his pocket. Is this true, or…?

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Hi, Ern:

I have been reading your posts about why we catholoics worship on Sunday, as well as all the excellent explanations you have received from several of our brothers and sisters, and still you can not seem to understand said explanations. I just want to let you know that us, catholics, worship our Lord, Jesus Christ every day of the week, not only on Sundays. At any given time, someone, somewhere is celebrating Mass and praying for you as our separated brother or sister in Christ and for me, as a member of the Catholic Church, the only one TRUE church.

God Bless you!

Maribel
 
Thanks Jharek. This bit about Rivera shows how easily those that do not accept that the CC is the One True Church founded by Jesus can easily be duped. Also, I have read about all of Chick’s venemous diatribes against the CC. Not only are they not true, but they lead me to believe that he is a mouthpiece for the “great deceiver”. I still can not believe that anyone can fall for such tripe. Thanks again and God Bless.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
You guys are really funny, your argueing about your historical facts about your our people.
Greggy you bet I’m basing my beliefs on the bible not on mans traditions from the cc. As Mark 1 says in the beginning was the word and the word was God. I’ve never read an EGWhite book in it’s entireity because I believe in Gods word only. Eph 2:8 says it all, for it is by the grace of God that you have been saved. Brothers and sisters I say make God our centre piece in our lives and let know man stand between us and God for our salvation, no matter what mans traditions tell us.

Oh and can you tell me who Jesus is talking to in mat 18:18??? Is that just Peter???

God bless you all. 👍
 
Really (name removed by moderator) I’ve backed all my info from the bible and historical literature. What have you supplied me? Zero. Nothing but one verse in the bible where Jesus was talking to Peter and 2 chapters later proves that Jesus was talking to everyone with the same words. Go out and spread the gospel about the good news of Jesus Christ our saviour. Not some made up mans traditions over time that can supercede Gods word. One day we will all see the truth, it’s not far now. Jesus is coming soon and only he will stand in front of us for our judgement to God. That’s why he died for you and me.
 
Hi, Catdan,

I think you should pay special attention to this - not only does it try and point out your mistakes, but it offers an approach you can take if you are seriously interested in effective communication. So, let’s start at the beginning…,
Catdan said:
You guys are really funny, your argueing about your historical facts about your our people.

You are really not using standard English to communicate - and that means that there is an excellent chance people do not really understand what it is you are trying to say. You begin with sarcasm - and fall on your face. Facts can not be argued - that is why they are facts. Honest. You may dispute a conclusion based on a fact, but, the facts are facts. But, just whose people are being argued about? These facts are not like cattle with a particular ‘brand’ to identify ownership. A fact belongs to everyone. Your first sentence makes no sense.

Greggy you bet I’m basing my beliefs on the bible not on mans traditions from the cc. As Mark 1 says in the beginning was the word and the word was God.

This looks a bit odd… in this sentence are you telling us that you really are using “…mans traditions from the cc…” :eek: Again, your tortured sentence structure just leaves us wonder what it is you are trying to say. Ah, but the acid test is coming up next… you see the quote you are using actually comes from JOHN and not Mark! Really, check out John 1:1-5 and see if this is closer to what you claim to quote rather then anywhere in Mark 1.

1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
He was in the beginning with God.
3
All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
5
the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Now, I am not going to attempt to do anything with the rest of your post… 🙂 I am just going to stop there and offer three suggestions for you to seriously consider. In my opinion, if you expect anyone to take you seriously you will takes these ideas to heart. If you wish to continue to look like you do not know what you are talking about - simply continue as you are doing.

1.) Do not dismiss this post because it disagrees with you. Take it seriously and see how you can improve in your presentation (e.g., meaningful sentences and accurate statements go a long way to make a convincing argument.)

2.) Please stop being so defensive. Correcting you is really an act of charity - and many before me have put their hand to that plow. But, look at how you respond? Truly, if there was ever an argument for taking heed to what you have been told - and failing to do so - your posts serve as an excellent example.

3.) You claim to read the Bible, and read all of these wonderful documents against the Catholic Church. Yet, in confusing Gospel writers, you throw into sharp relief the weakness of your Bible knowledge. Remember, you selected the quote you used and you mis-identified the source. That error lies at your feet alone. By selecting only anti-Catholic text to read and quote at length you are showing an amazing lack of originality. While you may not be on the payroll of Jack Chick - if you keep doing this, you should at least consider contacting him to show how well you are spreading his poison. Why is it that you don’t think that other sources should be looked at, too? Looking at both sides of an issue is a mark of intellectual honesty. By ignoring historical fact and other views, you make a forceful stand for the problems with maintaining full-blown ignorance.

Now, to be honest, I am just human - and subject to error and multiple mis-steps. There was a time when I could not string five words together and make a logical statement. Many, many people took the time to correct me. Many, many have attempted to correct you - but, instead of thanks, you give them a sharp rebuke, question their motives and then merrily go along like nothing has happened. Shame. You will soon tire those who are trying to help you - and then where will you be? Personally, I am showing some signs of fatigue. So, do me a favor… instead of just blasting out another one of your memorable frothy posts, why not take a time out and think about what so many have been telling you? Think about what it is you want to say, and then take the time to compose a proper sentence to express that idea. Your sentences should have a factual basis and should not accuse others of having an improper motive - even if you do not agree with them. Charity is the foundation for all communication.

Go on…try it - just once - and see what happens. Who knows, there is a chance that you will actually enjoy reading your own properly written sentences. There is no problem with admiring a carefully thought out position - as opposed to simply using a lethgthy cut 'n paste approach that truly did not tell anyone just what it was you believe. I guarantee that your readers will appreciate such a change in style and content. 🙂

God bless
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Catdan said:
You guys are really funny, your argueing about your historical facts about your our people.
Greggy you bet I’m basing my beliefs on the bible not on mans traditions from the cc. As Mark 1 says in the beginning was the word and the word was God. I’ve never read an EGWhite book in it’s entireity because I believe in Gods word only. Eph 2:8 says it all, for it is by the grace of God that you have been saved. Brothers and sisters I say make God our centre piece in our lives and let know man stand between us and God for our salvation, no matter what mans traditions tell us.

Oh and can you tell me who Jesus is talking to in mat 18:18??? Is that just Peter???

God bless you all. 👍
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I understand that SDA base their beliefs on what they think the scriptures say; Sola Scriptura or “Scripture only”. I believe this heresy had it’s beginnings with Calvin. I don’t know much about Ellen White, and I don’t recall talking to you about her. I have read some of the history about her. I read that she was hit on the head with a rock, and almost died. When she did recover from her coma she started having “visions”; So much for that. 🤷

In Mathew 18: 18 Jesus was talking to the 12 apostles. He gave that authority to them not to everyone. Later in Matthew he gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of and repeats what he said earlier. He established His Church with Peter and the other 11 Apostles. Authority and office. That authority and office continues to this day handed down from one generation to the next and the gates of Hell have not prevailed against it.
Mat 19,18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.
 
Tom your right my English is not that good, for that I am sorry. But you knew exactly which gospel I was talking about so thankyou for pionting out the obvious, it’s truely appreciated. Fair enough if you don’t understand my english to not respond to the questions/info I have provided that’s your call. Till next time. 👍
 
Catdan said:
Tom your right my English is not that good, for that I am sorry. But you knew exactly which gospel I was talking about so thankyou for pionting out the obvious, it’s truely appreciated. Fair enough if you don’t understand my english to not respond to the questions/info I have provided that’s your call. Till next time. 👍
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Catdan, may I ask why you joined the SDA church? Was it their propaganda concerning/ against the CC, or did you believe in their explanations? Have you ever truly delved into the history of the CC to find what it’s all about ( without bias or prjudice )? Thank you.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Hi Javl, good question. The main reason I aligned myself with the sda church (prefer to say I’m a follower of Jesus) is really the sabbath. Certianly not the “propaganda concerning/ against the CC”. That has absolutly nothing to do with my number 1 concern to have a full on relationship with my heavenly Father. Not through man or any other source but a direct line between Him and I. A few other issues would be how they see state of the dead. Could never get my head around the rapture idea and that when you die that you go to heaven straight away (if your have been good) but then at Jesus 2nd coming that you will be sent back to your grave to be risen a 2nd time and taken to heaven. That idea just isn’t Biblical from my own studies. I suppose their interpretation of prophecy is so accurate (speaking about Daniel and revelation) which can be back up by history books comes in last place for me. Prophcey has nothing to do with my salvation, the point really is that it gives creedance that the Bible is a reliable source of info (Gods inspired word). Because you can prove it’s from mans records of history.
"Have you ever truly delved into the history of the CC to find what it’s all about ( without bias or prjudice ". No not really, thats the main reason I looked for this site. Would you care to fill me in?? I know/work with many catholic people and mostly when I try and talk about why they call themselves Catholics is because they have been since they were a child. So I guessed that there would be some informed people on this site that would have a good reason why they call themselves Catholics and could explian a few things for me. But to be honest I’ve Mainly got that it’s about Peter and the rock idea and that man has more authority than God. I just can’t believe that other wise Jesus would have spelt it out more clearly that man can change what ever he likes with tradition as the cc has.

That’s it in a nutshell I guess. Hope that made some sense to you. 👍
 
Catdan
I hadn’t studied much about the history of the Catholic Church since school. Then one day a year or so ago an SDA approached me and started giving me some of his “history” of the Catholic Church. I was astonished to find out that such things were being said about the Church especially coming from another supposedly Christian Church. I have since done some research into the history of the Church. The internet provides a vast amount of information about the history of Christianity and from secular sources. If you want to find a fairly unbiased account of the history of Christianity start with these secular sources.; Sources that don’t have an axe to grind one way or another. Your leaders will tell you not to do this. They will tell you that the entire history of Christianity has been suppressed and re-written. This is nonsense. There are fairly accurate histories out there that use secular sources for their information. Try Googling the “history of Christianity” You will find that the wikipedia encyclopedia has a fairly brief account. Don’t be hoodwinked by the SDA into thinking that the entire history of Christianity has been suppressed by the Catholic Church. If it had how would they know it?
 
Catdan said:
Hi Javl, good question. The main reason I aligned myself with the sda church (prefer to say I’m a follower of Jesus) is really the sabbath. Certianly not the “propaganda concerning/ against the CC”. That has absolutly nothing to do with my number 1 concern to have a full on relationship with my heavenly Father. Not through man or any other source but a direct line between Him and I. A few other issues would be how they see state of the dead. Could never get my head around the rapture idea and that when you die that you go to heaven straight away (if your have been good) but then at Jesus 2nd coming that you will be sent back to your grave to be risen a 2nd time and taken to heaven. That idea just isn’t Biblical from my own studies. I suppose their interpretation of prophecy is so accurate (speaking about Daniel and revelation) which can be back up by history books comes in last place for me. Prophcey has nothing to do with my salvation, the point really is that it gives creedance that the Bible is a reliable source of info (Gods inspired word). Because you can prove it’s from mans records of history.
"Have you ever truly delved into the history of the CC to find what it’s all about ( without bias or prjudice ". No not really, thats the main reason I looked for this site. Would you care to fill me in?? I know/work with many catholic people and mostly when I try and talk about why they call themselves Catholics is because they have been since they were a child. So I guessed that there would be some informed people on this site that would have a good reason why they call themselves Catholics and could explian a few things for me. But to be honest I’ve Mainly got that it’s about Peter and the rock idea and that man has more authority than God. I just can’t believe that other wise Jesus would have spelt it out more clearly that man can change what ever he likes with tradition as the cc has.

That’s it in a nutshell I guess. Hope that made some sense to you. 👍
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Thank you Catdan. I understand your reasons. Believe it or not we Catholics also have God ( the Holy Trinity ) as our number 1 source and priority. We also do not accept the rapture or that you go directly to heaven when you die. We believe that although you have been forgiven the sin God’s Justice demands reparations for the consequences of that sin ( much like when a person commits a crime, he may tell all that he’s sorry and be forgiven it, but he still has to pay the penalty for commiting the crime ). Jesus Himself said that we must pay to the last penny. From this we believe that the soul survives the physical death of the body for how else can God judge you if the soul “sleeps” immediately upon death. All we believe and are taught is based in scripture.

Also, man does not have more authority than God. But God ( Jesus ) did give man the authority to “bind and loose” on earth and it will be done so in heaven. This is why sola scriptura is erroneous. Everyone has their own interprtation and accepts or rejects what they want or do not want. There has to be a sole authority for interpretation. That authority is the Catholic Church which Jesus founded.

There is much information about Catholicism. Catholic Protestant, and secular information, that is available on the internet and in books in any library. Try to read without predjudice or bias. I would also recommend sda2rc.com/ for information to help you.

If you are truly interested, you would be amazed to learn that the Catholic Church is not what the SDA paints it to be. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
No answer or comment from any SDA. Then, I guess this thread is closed.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
I am a Catholic currenlty living with, and surrounded by Seventh Day Adventists in South America, many of whom have a commitment to their faith that I admire and respect. However, their anti-Catholicism is obviously a huge barrior, at least some of which is based on false claims. (Some of my friends actually believed that the Catholic Chruch removed one of the ten commandments (about idols) until I explained that we have same commandments, just organized differently.) So that made me curious about some of the other claims I have read Ellen G. White level against the Catholic Church. I came to Cathilic Answers to get some basic clarity in English before I try to carry on theological discussions in my currently poor Spanish. I apologize in advance if these issues have already been dealt with, but I have limited and slow internet service that I have to pay for and spent maybe ten hours plugging through this threat and with my slow connection only got to page 20 where none of these things had been discussed. If they have, can someone be so kind as to direct me to the page/post?

So here are my genuine questions to all the SDA brothers and sisters on this forum: (Im not trying to debate here, just want to understand at this point)
  1. Do SDAs still hold that Michael the archangel and Jesus are the same person like EGW taught, or has this been abandoned by modern SDAs?
  2. I keep hearing from SDAs that the Pope has some title that is 666. What is your evidence to say that the pope uses or used such a title?
  3. Do SDAs currently believe that the Catholic church was always evil/demonic, or was it just for a certain time period, or after Constantine?
  4. What constitutes work for SDAs on the sabath? It is understandably much different from what I experienced when working in a Jewish synagogue for 3years. Is there a SDA teaching or guidelines or is it up to each individual to figure out what is work to them?
For my Catholic brethern,
  1. What is Catholic response to this SDA teaching that the CC is babylon of Revelation?
  2. What is Catholic response to this papal title that is 666?
  3. Is there a book that goes into depth that I could read about Catholic apologitic responses to SDAs?
    Thanks for your patience with this list of questions. I would greatly appreciate clarifation from the knowledgable people on this forum.
    JP
 
Docobi said:
I am a Catholic currenlty living with, and surrounded by Seventh Day Adventists in South America, many of whom have a commitment to their faith that I admire and respect. However, their anti-Catholicism is obviously a huge barrior, at least some of which is based on false claims. (Some of my friends actually believed that the Catholic Chruch removed one of the ten commandments (about idols) until I explained that we have same commandments, just organized differently.) So that made me curious about some of the other claims I have read Ellen G. White level against the Catholic Church. I came to Cathilic Answers to get some basic clarity in English before I try to carry on theological discussions in my currently poor Spanish. I apologize in advance if these issues have already been dealt with, but I have limited and slow internet service that I have to pay for and spent maybe ten hours plugging through this threat and with my slow connection only got to page 20 where none of these things had been discussed. If they have, can someone be so kind as to direct me to the page/post?

So here are my genuine questions to all the SDA brothers and sisters on this forum: (Im not trying to debate here, just want to understand at this point)
  1. Do SDAs still hold that Michael the archangel and Jesus are the same person like EGW taught, or has this been abandoned by modern SDAs?
  2. I keep hearing from SDAs that the Pope has some title that is 666. What is your evidence to say that the pope uses or used such a title?
  3. Do SDAs currently believe that the Catholic church was always evil/demonic, or was it just for a certain time period, or after Constantine?
  4. What constitutes work for SDAs on the sabath? It is understandably much different from what I experienced when working in a Jewish synagogue for 3years. Is there a SDA teaching or guidelines or is it up to each individual to figure out what is work to them?
For my Catholic brethern,
  1. What is Catholic response to this SDA teaching that the CC is babylon of Revelation?
  2. What is Catholic response to this papal title that is 666?
  3. Is there a book that goes into depth that I could read about Catholic apologitic responses to SDAs?
    Thanks for your patience with this list of questions. I would greatly appreciate clarifation from the knowledgable people on this forum.
    JP
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Hi Docobi,

I’m a former SDA who converted to Catholicism. I think you will find the answers to your questions addressed to your Catholic brethern in the links below in my signature line. The web sites were created and are maintained by former SDAs who converted to Catholicism.

Especially helpful will be the articles found on the DiesDomini.com website and the SDA2RC.com website. I highly recommned that you take your time and search and read the articles in them.

The blogspots also contain interesting and informative discussions, but I think the articles in the webistes will be very useful to you!

God bless all!!!
 
I just read last night it was the Nazarene Jewish Christians who broke away from the mainline Jews after worshipping with them, and later moving to their own syngagogues to worship on Sunday…not the ‘Roman Catholic Church’ of their image…
 
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