Seventh Day Adventists

[benidict]

Benidict:

The Seventh Day Adventist General Conference has issued a “Guidance” that says that while abortion should considered very seriously and not used as a birth control method, it is up to the mother. If you are not anti-abortion you are pro-abortion, ergo the SDA denomination is pro-abortion. Granted individual SDAs are anti-abortion, but the denomination is not.

Definition 5a of "cult’ in the Webster’s New Collegiate Diction: “a great devotion to a person, idea, or thing” Look at the SDA devotion to EGW and her visions. Take away EGW and there will be no SDA denomination left. This is particularly true because without EGW the denomination’s entire eschatological theology will go down the drain.

I stand by what I said.

i read this aritcle and it does not state that. it was talking about in cases of rape or incest. i understand where your coming from. but its a very sensitive issue. ive done work for the 40 days for life campaign. my best friend had an abortion her parents made her get when she was 16. shes 50 now and it still affects her. also have met other women who have gone thru with this procedure. it does not help to berate them or treat them with anger or hate. many times they did not get all the correct information to make an informed decision. its very sad. but if you do not reach out in the love of Christ to these women,then where are they to go? the mothers are in many ways the victims of this as well as the unborn who were murdered. thank God for pregnancy centers set up by christians that can educate these women and give them a better option. will adress egw later. but i do agree with you. she was not prophetess. Love in Christ.

 

[Bill_Pick]

One very important distinction to realize too Patrick is that the Old Testament sanctuary, and it’s services, were not in fact “copies” but “types” and there is a huge difference. This is something that I have seen some Adventists miss too. I will be back in a few days and will enjoy responding to your other points in your last post. We’re a ways away from the 1000 post mark on this one so there should be lots of room to get into it better when I come back.

Are the Seventh Day Adventists the people that worship snakes a few years back, and a off take of the JW. Just asking I have no dog in this fight or was it the Penctestal.

 

[benidict]

Are the Seventh Day Adventists the people that worship snakes a few years back, and a off take of the JW. Just asking I have no dog in this fight or was it the Penctestal.

lol! no, negative on both parts. the adventist actually came out of the teachings of william miller. i think i have tht correct. they have nothing to do with snakes and such. not even close to the teachings of the jw teachings. they were founded by charles taze russle. who was twice found to be a pergurer in a court of law. miller may have laid the groundwork for the adventist to come about, but it was the visions of ellen g white that really got the group started. the interesting thing about the adventist history is that they didnt all come from one denomination. it was a movement in a variety of denominations. but the pentacostles? ok its a very very small minority of pentacostals who practice snake handling and the drinking of stricknine. my inlaws actually went to a service where this was praticed much to their shock. but its a tiny minority that do this. i dont even know what youd call them, they go way beyond pentacostal.

 

[benidict]

Again you call Jesus a liar. John 6: 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

You really need to stop doing that.

i do admit marsha, i love your fire! my former baptist tendencies come out themselves at times. but to respond to something you had stated before. i do believe you are correct without the visions of ellen g white, the adventist would lose their end times scenario. also this is where the apocrypha is so important. many of the passages they cite from daniel are in fact fulfillled in the life of antiocus epiphinus. who is found in the book of maccabees. the adventist are not the only ones not to see this, most pre millinialist do the same thing. if you go thru the life of antiocus, he fits daniels description perfectly. and did exactly as daniel said he would do as the man of sin. from the changing of the laws and seasons, to the abomination of desolation, to his death. all were prophesied by daniel. i just wish the protestants would give the apocrypha a chance and see whats being said. i believe it could clear up alot of errors and strange ideas floating around out there in this day and age. HAIL MARY FULL OF GRACE,THE LORD IS WITH THEE. BLESSED ART THOU AMOUNGST WOMEN,AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB JESUS. HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD. PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH. AMEN.

 

[Bill_Pick]

lol! no, negative on both parts. the adventist actually came out of the teachings of william miller. i think i have tht correct. they have nothing to do with snakes and such. not even close to the teachings of the jw teachings. they were founded by charles taze russle. who was twice found to be a pergurer in a court of law. miller may have laid the groundwork for the adventist to come about, but it was the visions of ellen g white that really got the group started. the interesting thing about the adventist history is that they didnt all come from one denomination. it was a movement in a variety of denominations. but the pentacostles? ok its a very very small minority of pentacostals who practice snake handling and the drinking of stricknine. my inlaws actually went to a service where this was praticed much to their shock. but its a tiny minority that do this. i dont even know what youd call them, they go way beyond pentacostal.

Ok I am sorry but it was the pentecostal they come and put up tent and did have a server and did worship with snakes this was back about in 1942,I may be wrong and if Iam I be sorry Smail

 

[DavidMark]

Protestant101:

I would like a response from you or others in the SDA Church about 1844. An entire new calendar began in that year with monthly and daily names reflecting the attributes of God instead of some Roman or Norse myths.
I’m saying that the Promise was fulfilled. Are you going to tell me that Saturday and diet etc. are more important than establishing Who the Promised One is?

Doesn’t it prick your interest just a little when I tell you that others in Islam were awaiting the same year (1260 AH = 1844 CE) because the Qur’anic 1000 years had elapsed since the disappearance of the 12th Imam in 260 AH? No? Well, what about this:
**
Know thou of a certainty that whenever thou makest mention of Him Whom God shall make manifest(Bahá’u’lláh), only then art thou making mention of God. ** (The Bab, SWB, p. 80)

 

[greggy53]

Protestant101:

I would like a response from you or others in the SDA Church about 1844. An entire new calendar began in that year with monthly and daily names reflecting the attributes of God instead of some Roman or Norse myths.
I’m saying that the Promise was fulfilled. Are you going to tell me that Saturday and diet etc. are more important than establishing Who the Promised One is?

Doesn’t it prick your interest just a little when I tell you that others in Islam were awaiting the same year (1260 AH = 1844 CE) because the Qur’anic 1000 years had elapsed since the disappearance of the 12th Imam in 260 AH? No? Well, what about this:
**
Know thou of a certainty that whenever thou makest mention of Him Whom God shall make manifest**(Bahá’u’lláh), only then art thou making mention of God. (The Bab, SWB, p. 80)

I take it by Norse and Roman myths you are referring to the names of the days of the week? I watched a web video where an SDA speaker inferred that Catholics worship a pagan god because we worship on Sunday. He didn’t bother to mention that SDA also worship on a day named after a Roman God.

 

[Javl]

How can anyone who claims to be Christian follow the teachings of Ellen White, who made false claims and pedictions that also were false? How can they follow the old covenant when Jesus gave us a new covenant? How can they claim the CC is false when
Jesus gave it full authority and He promised to be with it always? Are they claiming Jesus is a liar and a con man, much as many of the cults do?

I’d like an SDA to answer these questions if possible.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[DavidMark]

Protestant101:

I would still like a response from you or others in the SDA Church about the prophetic year1844. William Miller deduced that Christ would come around that time. What is it that made this issue of no importance?

 

[tqualey]

Hold on, there P101… what IS truly amazing is how you evade while claiming not to evade the scripture you quote - but, only in sections. Patrick did not miss a thing …and, neither did I … there was nothing there to miss, old buddy. I think you’d do better to get an IHOP franchise rather then try and ‘sell’ your hotcakes…

Jesus is literal on the cross; not in a slice of bread or a beaker of “wine.” All believers have access to His shed blood, through faith. The remembrance is a literal experience of faith; yet, the bread and the wine cannot be literal; for Christ crucified on Calvary is the literal part.

I am sorry, Patrick, that you apparently missed the truly amazing part of my last post.

Disagree? Fine. My challenge to you over many posts (that you have yet to rise to… ) is that Christ identified Himself with Food that had to be eaten no less then 20 times in John 6. In no other account of Christ’s teaching does He go over and over and over the same point. Do you think He called Himself a Vine in 20 different ways? or a Door in 20 different ways? Now, most folks - at least those without an agenda - would wonder why He did that? Since all teaching is for instruciton, the idea that I think is valid is that Christ was trying to re-focus our attention on the God who made heaven and earth was perfectly capable of hiding from our eyes under the appearance of bread and wine. St. Paul believed this - no one is condemned for arguing with a metaphor - ah, but arguing with the Body of Christ will merit eternal damnation. Your response is that you simply disagree with this literal interpretation - and that ends that. Well, God gave us minds to use and He will hold us accountable for how we used them.

So, according to your mind - just why did Christ reference Himself as Food to be eaten so many times?

As far as I am concerned, just answer that I will let you go in peace… As to the dying Catholic who you ministered to, I am convinced that wherever two or more are gathered - there I am in the midst (Matt 18:20). God bless your kindness.

God bless

 

[Bill_Pick]

How can anyone who claims to be Christian follow the teachings of Ellen White, who made false claims and pedictions that also were false? How can they follow the old covenant when Jesus gave us a new covenant? How can they claim the CC is false when
Jesus gave it full authority and He promised to be with it always? Are they claiming Jesus is a liar and a con man, much as many of the cults do?

I’d like an SDA to answer these questions if possible.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Good luck

 

[Protestant101]

Hold on, there P101… what IS truly amazing is how you evade while claiming not to evade the scripture you quote - but, only in sections. Patrick did not miss a thing …and, neither did I … there was nothing there to miss, old buddy. I think you’d do better to get an IHOP franchise rather then try and ‘sell’ your hotcakes…

Disagree? Fine. My challenge to you over many posts (that you have yet to rise to… ) is that Christ identified Himself with Food that had to be eaten no less then 20 times in John 6. In no other account of Christ’s teaching does He go over and over and over the same point. Do you think He called Himself a Vine in 20 different ways? or a Door in 20 different ways? Now, most folks - at least those without an agenda - would wonder why He did that? Since all teaching is for instruciton, the idea that I think is valid is that Christ was trying to re-focus our attention on the God who made heaven and earth was perfectly capable of hiding from our eyes under the appearance of bread and wine. St. Paul believed this - no one is condemned for arguing with a metaphor - ah, but arguing with the Body of Christ will merit eternal damnation. Your response is that you simply disagree with this literal interpretation - and that ends that. Well, God gave us minds to use and He will hold us accountable for how we used them.

So, according to your mind - just why did Christ reference Himself as Food to be eaten so many times?

As far as I am concerned, just answer that I will let you go in peace… As to the dying Catholic who you ministered to, I am convinced that wherever two or more are gathered - there I am in the midst (Matt 18:20). God bless your kindness.

God bless

The number of times He mentions “food” has no relevance in determining the literal or non-literal intent of a given Bible passage. It does have relevance; but not in that.

 

[Protestant101]

Hi P101,

I don’t see that terminology as an important distinction. But if you do, then please feel free to substitute, in the scriptures I cited, the word “type”, or “pattern”, or even “shadow”, or whatever word seems more clear to you. Any or all of those words are good for me, and do not alter in any way the points I was making. I want you to feel comfortable and secure in discussing this!

As for Adventists missing some things…well…you would know better than me since you are the expert on Adventism.

However, I didn’t miss anything and very much look forward to your responses concerning all the points I raised!

Enjoy your time off!!!

God bless all!!!

Howdy Patrick; I would like to clarify, which point of your many points would you see as most important that I could reply to first?

I am adding this after making the original post: In post #555, you ask: “How do we access that cleansing blood of our High Priest who intercedes for us sinners with God?” Is this where you would say I could start in my reply?

And BTW, don’t be calling me an expert! I don’t think that’s any more fair than calling you an “expert” at Catholicism.

 

[benidict]

If you do not subscribe to those quotes, you are not and never will be SDA. It’s like people who claim to be “pro-choice Catholics”, they are lying to themselves as well as to the rest of the world. It is not possible to be pro-choice and to be Catholic too, it’s like trying to be a little bit pregnant or a little bit married or a little bit saved, it just can’t be done. You can call yourself SDA if you want, but trust me if you don’t subscribe to those quotes then you ain’t SDA.

hi marsha, keeping a promise to patrick. looks like i was wrong on some things and owe you an apology sister.
apparently to some degree you are right about the sda not being pro life. and the real shocker to me was that the adventist hospitals do preform abortions. how sad. i honestly believed that this church was pro life. that however appears not to be the case. wonder how many sda know this about their health care system. so with regret i have to say its looking more and more like the sda leadership endorses more of a pro choice stance as opposed to a pro life stance. this would explain the cold shoulder i got when i attempted to enlist their help in the 40 days for life campaign. keep up the good work your doing exposing some of the things that most people including those in the adventist community would not otherwise know. appreciate all you do. LOVE IN CHRIST

 

[benidict]

Hi, Katgee,



Do you have a link you can share on this aspect of Luther’s life?

God bless

not to hard. just google martin luther, plenty of material on how he hated the jews, and how his movement almost caused a breakdown in civilization due to his “reformation.” the peasant believed that since they had thrown off the shackles of rome, they were free to throw off the shackles of secular powers too. these ideas caused a huge amount of upheavel that have been felt into the 20th century. ie hitler used his writings to get the people in germany to side with him on his “final solution.” how tragic. it shows our descisions can have far reaching effects which may be unintended. there are some good jewish publications also which adress this, but i cannot off the top of my head remember the titles. had to leave alot of books home when i moved to my duty station. any jewish brothers out there help us out?

 

[benidict]

No I do not.

I took a class on ecumenism by a bishop who attended the Vatican II on ecumenism.

He spoke to us of the psychology of Martin Luther, a very conscientious, and a highly scrupulous person. However, he was valid in regards to the corruption – in some parts of the church, particularly Italy at that time.

An acquaintance of mine went to a class on the history of the church, and came back in a state of shock…it was pretty bad.

(People forget there were other geographical locations in the church that were not scandalous like that which Luther witnessed.)

Catherine of Siena preceeded Luther, I believe by several hundred years…and she stated that it is grace in faith in Christ that saves us…the Mass says it…in the offering of Christ as the only acceptable sacrifice and this memorial has been prayed and celebrated for 2,000 years now…

The bishop did not say the following, but I read it some where…that Luther did have physical problems…that he was in a latrine when he got his great inspiration…and there was an article here on Worms, the city of Luther, that still keeps the toilet.

People, correct me…I am getting old, have been a very fast reader and am now making mistakes. I certainly don’t want to give false information here…

But how holy is that…?? Look at individualistic America and its 34,000 cults all claiming to get it right through Sola Scriptura…

Yet it is very hard to see beyond people’s or institutions shortcomings…

lol! ive had some of my best inspirations on the latrine too! and im getting old too! i hate having senior moments i really do. thanks for the humor. you made my day!:hug1:

 

[benidict]

Why did I become a Catholic? Well, here it is in a nutshell.

It was twenty-eight years ago (when I was 30 ½ years old) that I was baptized and
confirmed Catholic. Sometimes looking back I find it difficult to distinguish
between what prompted the change then and what would have prompted the change
now if it hadn’t then – if you know what I mean.

I had been born and raised Seventh Day Adventist. I was teaching the
kindergarten Sabbath School Lesson when I was ten and the Youth Sabbath School
Lesson when I was 18 and the Adult Sabbath School Lesson by the time I was 22.
I attended Broadview Academy and Andrews University (where I minored in
religion), served in my local church as Sabbath School Superintendent and Dorcas
Leader. I gave Bible studies and assisted in Evangelistic series. Occasionally
I was even asked by the pastor to preach in his absence. Just as Paul could say
that he was a Pharisee among Pharisees, I could safely say that I was an
Adventist among Adventists.

Was I happy? No. No matter how hard I tried, no matter how much I prayed and
read the Bible and read EGW, I experienced no spiritual growth. I could stand
in a corner with my eyes closed and my hands folded and still fall into sin. It
occurred to me that if I was in a constant state of sin no matter what I did,
why bother? I was tired of always being different from my friends and
colleagues and since I constantly sinned anyway, why continue being different,
why always be an outsider? So I left the denomination.

Now as I am sure you know, to have been a member of the One True Church and to
have left it, meant that I was damned. But I figured, I was damned even before
I left anyway.

I had a friend who was a devout Catholic who had a close friend who was a
priest. And it happened that some months after I left the denomination, we had
lunch with Fr. Tom and he and I fell into conversation. He was probably the
first priest I’d ever spoken to in my life. Of course, the subject turned to
religion. In the course of our discussion, I learned something that I had never
thought possible – many of the Catholic beliefs that SDAs scoff at as the
traditions of man were in fact based in Scripture. This interested me greatly.
Now since I knew that I was already damned, I didn’t think that I could get
anymore damned by studying with a priest, so Fr. Tom and I began to study
together. We had a great time, he would prove a point by quoting a text of
Scripture and I would supply the text and quote another.

As we studied together, things like transubstantiation and confession and the
role of Mary were just so obviously true, that I couldn’t understand how I could
have been blind to them in all my years of Bible study! Actually, in my youth
as I studied the Bible some of these doctrines seemed to be true and these
questions occurred to me, but since the SDA denomination had provided an
explanation (even though it didn’t really satisfy me), I had not questioned
further. After all, why would I question the teachings of the One True Church?

As I studied with Fr. Tom I realized that I was not damned. I realized that the
rules of conduct that the denomination held me too, were the traditions of man,
not the laws of God – such irony since that is what the SDAs always accuse the
Catholics of. I realized that God had provided avenues of grace for us that
would draw us ever closer to Him.

The three doctrines that made me realize that I had to become Catholic, were
Eucharist, confession and the role of Mary. Later as I came to understand other
doctrines, the Teaching Authority of the Church and the Apostolic Succession
also became important to me and made me glad that I am a Catholic.

Marsha

this is one awesome testimony!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, P101,

Simply dismissing the issue does not make it go away. It will reamin in John 6 and it is quite literal - and no metaphor. It is the repitition that makes it stand out to anyone willing to read the text totally - and, without an agenda.

Denying the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist is not just a SDA misadventure - but, one shared by almost all of Protestantism - so, you are not alone in the P101. Of course, we are to approach the Word of God as individuals and not as some heard going off the cliff.

The number of times He mentions “food” has no relevance in determining the literal or non-literal intent of a given Bible passage. It does have relevance; but not in that.

I really wish you would take the time to compare any other teaching of Christ with this teaching in John 6. It is significant because it is so unique. The Jews of Christ’s time (not unlike the Protestants out there today) refused to believe that the Creator of all could not do what He wanted to do in this matter. God’s Ways are not our ways - and this is a perfect example. Becasue Christ did not conform to the Jewish expectation - they walked away - and this is the same argument that you are giving.\

P101, you really did fail to meet the challenge. But, really, evading is something that is taking on the appearance of an art form. It looks like you have chosen to continue to march - but, you are really going over the cliff by failing to believe Christ’s Words of Life.

God bless

 

[benidict]

You claim that the Seventh Day Adventist are “borner line Christians” who are you to judge a person or what they beleive? When did God give you the power of reading a persons heart or what’s on their mind? Second, if the 10 commandments are part of the old testament and “just for the Jews” then let’s kill, lets fornicate, why don’t we treat our parents like **** or maybe we can set up false idols and worship them, and pray to them, oh I forgot some people are doing this already. If the old testament is old history and the commandments were just written by the finger of God, and they count for nothing today, then let’s cut the Bible in half and throw the old testament in the garbage! Use the common sense God gave you! WHY DO YOU DEFEND MAN MADE LAWS LIKE SUNDAY! IF SUNDAY IS SO HOLY THEN PROVE IT! FIND ONE VERSE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE THAT TELLS US TO KEEP SUNDAY AS GOD’S HOLY DAY! You seem to know the scriptures.
You say that the SDA church is a false church and you said to read John 15, where Jesus says to love one another.
Well let me ask you a question? Would you consider a church that burns people alive, tortures human beings because they believe differently then everyone else the correct church. Maybe I miss read the scriptures, but I have NEVER read that Jesus Christ the SON OF GOD, EVER!!! Beat or burned anyone, because they didn’t follow him.

Here’s a quote from the enclyclopedia of your “methods of Love for your fellow brothers”:

“The methods of torture most used by the Inquisition were garrucha, toca and the potro. The application of the garrucha, also known as the strappado, consisted of suspending the victim from the ceiling by a pulley with weights tied to the ankles, with a series of lifts and drops, during which arms and legs suffered violent pulls and were sometimes dislocated. The toca, also called interrogatorio mejorado del agua, consisted of introducing a cloth into the mouth of the victim, and forcing them to ingest water spilled from a jar so that they had impression of drowning (see: waterboarding). The potro, the rack, was the instrument of torture used most frequently.”
The LOVE that the Roman Catholic Church showed humanbeings through out the years of the Inquision was one of a “true church” that professes love for it’s fellow man.

If Jesus died for me on the cross (killed by the “ROMANS”), and his blood covers my sins, then WHY do I need to confess my sins to a sinful man (preist)? Is it that Jesus’s blood isn’t powerful enogh to clean my soul of sin. Or, maybe Jesus is to busy to hear me pray, and that’s why accourding to you, he needs men (priest) to help the prayers move along. The only thing you say that makes any sense what so ever, is when you called me disobedient!
You hit the nail on the head! I am and will die being disobedient to men that think they are God and try to take God’s position.
Only God can forgive sins, not the Catholic Church, not the Seventh Day Adventist Chuch, not the Mormons, or the Baptist, and especially not the Pope or his priest!
I hope you can some day realize that it’s about following God or Man, you can’t serve both!
PS> I’ll be waiting for the Bible text that tells me to keep SUNDAY HOLY!
Love Ern!

hello my friend, first and formost, you need to study up on the inquisition. it really was very limited in scope, and each incident lasted for a very short period of time. also i think you need to start studying Church history. Origen would be a great place to start. but lets look at the bible first. we read in acts of pharisees who had converted attempting to get people circumcised according to the law of moses. the apostles who had the authority of Christ, stated that no they did not. this is but one example from the bible, i can find you more. however on to origen. no one would ever accuse this man of being a heretic or a pagan. so here goes. origen wrote about the traditions handed down by the apostles. that the Church was bound to. these traditions were ( just to name a few) infant baptism. the eucharist. which the apostles had handed down to the time of origen to mean that when the priest prayed over the bread and the wine, they truly became the body and blood of our Lord. that to think otherwise was to eat and drink condemnation unto oneself. apparenly, origen was convinced that the apostles had souls and had gone to be in their heavenly abode to wait with Christ until the ressurection. by that time sunday was being celebrated, and according to clement ignatious and origen, the apostles had started a line of succesion that was to end only when Christ returned, with the same authority they had held. so yes. the
Church did have the right to change the day from sabbath to the Lords day. who am i to believe? a woman who quite possibly suffered from partial complex seizure disorder? my daughter suffers from this and her symptoms are eerily similar to egw’s. or an institution,that Christ and his apostles set up? Who am i to believe. a church whose history is based on the false prophecies of milller, ie the great dissapointment, wich is directly contrary to the scriptures that no man would know the day or the hour. or a Church that has lasted throught the millenia and will be here when Christ returns. your problem is not with a day of worship my friend, and you are the ones following the traditions and opinions of man. not the Catholic Church. so get angry if you want, it wont help. but your problem is with the authority that Jesus and his apostles set up. also i would suggest you read malichi 1:11. only one Church fits that prophecy, ill leave the determination up to you. Love in Christ.

 

[Javl]

Good luck

Thanks. I’m not holding my breath though. They all seem to ignore legit questions and make astounding fallacious remarks. Oh, Well. Ce’st la vie…

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem