Seventh Day Adventists

[phummel]

Paul,quite interested with what you say. Do you think that the sabbath you worhip today is the same sabbath Jesus worship when he was here on this earth?
God bless you

Hello SOSOLAK,

Haha for starters I don’t worship the Sabbath, only God. For me, it is a day to set aside for God (keep holy). A tithing of time perhaps…
I don’t think it is the same as it was when Jesus was here on earth. I’m sure there were many Jewish customs and rituals associated with Sabbath keeping back then.
In fact, I associate the crucifixtion and His resting in the tomb on Sabbath as yet another reminder of all the things God has done.

That’s part of the significance of the Sabbath for me. Taking time to remember all the things God has done. Most obviously, I recall Creation week, Exodus (deliverance from bondage), and then as I mentioned the death of Jesus.

Now I will bore you with more personal testimony… At first, Sabbath was just an expression of obedient devotion, but now it’s something I look forward to every week. It went hand in hand with so many other changes in my life - no more TV, football, video games, etc. Not that these things are evil/wrong but rather I can fill my time with so many more worthwhile things. I am blessed that He has filled my life with a sense of purpose and gives me opportunities to work in His service.

blessings,
paul

 

[Protestant101]

hi protestant 101, these comments are not aimed at you. you have already stated that you are on the progressive wing of the sda movement. some of the things i wrote though do need answeres, such as egw possibly having her visions because of partial complex seizure disorder? i would break bread with you any time though my friend, God bless

No; I did not state that I was “on the progressive wing” or any other “wing.” I am just a Seventh-day Adventist

 

[Protestant101]

Hello SOSOLAK,

Haha for starters I don’t worship the Sabbath, only God. For me, it is a day to set aside for God (keep holy). A tithing of time perhaps…
I don’t think it is the same as it was when Jesus was here on earth. I’m sure there were many Jewish customs and rituals associated with Sabbath keeping back then.
In fact, I associate the crucifixtion and His resting in the tomb on Sabbath as yet another reminder of all the things God has done.

That’s part of the significance of the Sabbath for me. Taking time to remember all the things God has done. Most obviously, I recall Creation week, Exodus (deliverance from bondage), and then as I mentioned the death of Jesus.

Now I will bore you with more personal testimony… At first, Sabbath was just an expression of obedient devotion, but now it’s something I look forward to every week. It went hand in hand with so many other changes in my life - no more TV, football, video games, etc. Not that these things are evil/wrong but rather I can fill my time with so many more worthwhile things. I am blessed that He has filled my life with a sense of purpose and gives me opportunities to work in His service.

blessings,
paul

My sons have both stated that they will always have very fond memories of all those Sabbaths we had together as a family; so in my case, it was a double blessing for me to see young people who looked at it so positively, and would always have a healthy balanced testimony about the Sabbath to share with others. The Sabbath has never been any of the stuff to our family, that former Adventists or anti-Adventists seem to enjoy making it out to be.

 

[benidict]

No; I did not state that I was “on the progressive wing” or any other “wing.” I am just a Seventh-day Adventist

lol! my mistake. still your alot more educated and plesant to converse with than the other one. i think im gonna have to take them off my christmas list.

 

[Protestant101]

lol! my mistake. still your alot more educated and plesant to converse with than the other one. i think im gonna have to take them off my christmas list.

LOL, NO! Those are the ones you need to keep on your Christmas list so they don’t get worse!!

 

[benidict]

LOL, NO! Those are the ones you need to keep on your Christmas list so they don’t get worse!!

OK OK! LOL! ill keep them on. but only let them know it is by your intercession that they are there. one thing i agree with egw on tho. and that is when she said that every nation has been placed here to see if they will fulfill the work of their creator. kinda paraphrased. cannot remember in which one of her writings i read this and its been years. i just thought it was a profound statement, that rang true.

 

[Javl]

Hello SOSOLAK,

Haha for starters I don’t worship the Sabbath, only God. For me, it is a day to set aside for God (keep holy). A tithing of time perhaps…
I don’t think it is the same as it was when Jesus was here on earth. I’m sure there were many Jewish customs and rituals associated with Sabbath keeping back then.
In fact, I associate the crucifixtion and His resting in the tomb on Sabbath as yet another reminder of all the things God has done.

That’s part of the significance of the Sabbath for me. Taking time to remember all the things God has done. Most obviously, I recall Creation week, Exodus (deliverance from bondage), and then as I mentioned the death of Jesus.

Now I will bore you with more personal testimony… At first, Sabbath was just an expression of obedient devotion, but now it’s something I look forward to every week. It went hand in hand with so many other changes in my life - no more TV, football, video games, etc. Not that these things are evil/wrong but rather I can fill my time with so many more worthwhile things. I am blessed that He has filled my life with a sense of purpose and gives me opportunities to work in His service.

blessings,
paul

Hi Paul:

Your testimony is very explanatory and fine. I understand your position. But isn’t the
resurrection of Our Lord and Saviour the real basis of our belief? His overcoming of evil
and death and opening of the Gates of Heaven, to me, is more than His Passion. The
celebration of this day, which occured on a Sunday, is why most Christians woship Him
on a Sunday ( also Sabbath does not mean Saturdy, but rest ). God Bless.

Len

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Howdy Patrick; I would like to clarify, which point of your many points would you see as most important that I could reply to first?

I am adding this after making the original post: In post #555, you ask: “How do we access that cleansing blood of our High Priest who intercedes for us sinners with God?” Is this where you would say I could start in my reply?

And BTW, don’t be calling me an expert! I don’t think that’s any more fair than calling you an “expert” at Catholicism.

Hi P101,

There are a few points in my post I suppose, but most relate to Jesus being our High Priest. The scriptures you brought up in Hebrews, is where Paul tries to reason with the Jews and teach them how Jesus is our High Priest. If you agree with what I stated in that post, you don’t need to reply. But if you differ, for any reason, with what I’ve said and shown from the Bible, then please begin any where you see best for continuing our discussion. I look forward to what you have to say!

I also saw your later questions regarding Passover. Let’s put that on hold until we discuss the Sanctuary Services and Jesus as our High Priest which you intially brought up and I responded to. I believe the substance of our initial discussion was Jesus offering Himself and being sacrificed once for the sins all mankind…and what His ministry as High Priest means, and where the Eucharist fits into that plan and ministry.

I have done this comparison you speak about before on other threads in years gone by - I have been on this forum for over three years, and most of it was summarily dismissed, so what you call “failing” is really not the best way to look at it - this type of apologetic where you try to characterize your target as “failing” or some other such weakness really explains nothing about the theology behind the person. I tend not to respond too much to such posts.

I will say that with Patrick’s posts; he is making serious efforts to be biblical and discuss the Bible with me so I am more open to responding to those types of posts; but even at that, my time is quite limited sometimes when I post here; plus there are quite a few of you, and only one of me. I won’t even try to answer everything from everyone.

I believe tqualey was also making serious efforts to be Biblical (in fact he actually referenced more scripture than I did).

I do understand the time contraints, and realize that you have your hands full here being in the minority of posters from your denomination…so take your time to reply!

God bless all!!!

 

[phummel]

Hi Paul:

Your testimony is very explanatory and fine. I understand your position. But isn’t the
resurrection of Our Lord and Saviour the real basis of our belief? His overcoming of evil
and death and opening of the Gates of Heaven, to me, is more than His Passion. The
celebration of this day, which occured on a Sunday, is why most Christians woship Him
on a Sunday ( also Sabbath does not mean Saturdy, but rest ). God Bless.

Len

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Amen Len! The resurrection is where our great joy and hope lies.

Romans 14:5 - I am fully convinced in my own mind.
(this is a blessing for me and you)

So here is where I will fly my Adventist colors - the emphasis on God versus Satan and the lies that Satan has been spreading about God.

I think of “rest” as in “rest my case”. I.e., God has finished fully demonstrating His character. He has never needed rest because of weariness. Rather it’s a pause for the universe to recognize all that He has done.
I like to think of a cosmic trial where God is the accused. Satan has leveled charges against God and has been deceiving both men and angels. We are the jury and we can decide whether we trust God or believe the lies.

Just another way of looking at accepting grace but in a wider context. I.e., we are not the only beings in the universe and God is trying to reconcile all things back to Him:
Ephesians 1:10
Ephesians 3:10-11
1 Corinthians 4:9
Revelation 12:7-9

So the crucifixtion answers charges that were made against God and clearly demonstrates the loving character of Christ and the sadistic monster that is Satan.
Then as you pointed out, with the resurrection we know He has conquered death for all and that we can experience this great joy too:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:12-58

blessings,
paul

 

[Javl]

Amen Len! The resurrection is where our great joy and hope lies.

Romans 14:5 - I am fully convinced in my own mind.
(this is a blessing for me and you)

So here is where I will fly my Adventist colors - the emphasis on God versus Satan and the lies that Satan has been spreading about God.

I think of “rest” as in “rest my case”. I.e., God has finished fully demonstrating His character. He has never needed rest because of weariness. Rather it’s a pause for the universe to recognize all that He has done.
I like to think of a cosmic trial where God is the accused. Satan has leveled charges against God and has been deceiving both men and angels. We are the jury and we can decide whether we trust God or believe the lies.

Just another way of looking at accepting grace but in a wider context. I.e., we are not the only beings in the universe and God is trying to reconcile all things back to Him:
Ephesians 1:10
Ephesians 3:10-11
1 Corinthians 4:9
Revelation 12:7-9

So the crucifixtion answers charges that were made against God and clearly demonstrates the loving character of Christ and the sadistic monster that is Satan.
Then as you pointed out, with the resurrection we know He has conquered death for all and that we can experience this great joy too:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:12-58

blessings,
paul

Thanks again for your kind response Paul. I will not pursue this subject any further. From
your answers i can see you are satisfied where you are. I will now leave you alone. God bless you and yours. I hope to meet you in the Kingdom of God.

Len

 

[phummel]

Thanks again for your kind response Paul. I will not pursue this subject any further. From
your answers i can see you are satisfied where you are. I will now leave you alone. God bless you and yours. I hope to meet you in the Kingdom of God.

Len

Hi Len,
thank you for your thoughtfulness too. You are not bugging me - of course I love to share all the blessings of my church, but I am also blessed by much of the wisdom of the Catholic Church.
I have no doubt that if you keep your right spirit that we could be neighbors in the Kingdom someday.

God bless you and take care,
paul

 

[tqualey]

Hi, P101,

Don’t think you are the only one with time limittions… You really don’t have to respond to me.

Tell 'ya what … if you like Patrick’s posts - then just respond to them. That’s the challenge.

You may want to take a look at Benedict’s post #580 … you really should respond to that, too.

I have done this comparison you speak about before on other threads in years gone by - I have been on this forum for over three years, and most of it was summarily dismissed, so what you call “failing” is really not the best way to look at it - this type of apologetic where you try to characterize your target as “failing” or some other such weakness really explains nothing about the theology behind the person. I tend not to respond too much to such posts.

What I find intriguing is that you have repeatedly come to a Catholic list to propose your ideas and have been given scriptural data that you simply refuse to believe. Either you believe the Word of God or you don’t. Why anyone would go to such lengths to claim the Sabbath still is to be the day of worship after Christ rose from the dead and His Chruch on earth (that would be the Catholic Church) clearly set a new direction under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is beyond me. There really isn’t a cafeteria here where you can pick what you like and avoid what you don’t like.

Why not cling to the requirement of circumcision? dietary laws? various sacrifices and feast days? Are you claiming that these are any less obligatory? Really, P101, it is called the NEW Testament because if fulfilled the Old one. That basically means there are a NEW set of guidelines… and no, we are not to go out and kill, fornicate and do whatever to our parents… if you want a real eye-opener, try reading the Matt 5 on the Beatitudes. No way you can violate the 10 Commandments and keep these Christ-given rules for living the life He wants you to live.

You may need to spend another three years … but, I’d recommend that at the beginning of your next tirannual event, you make a list of the so called ‘human laws and traditions’ that you oppose in the Catholic Church’s Doctrines of Faith - and those of White and her mentor Miller. Seriously, just make “T” typle list, with Catholic on one side of the vertical line and SDA on the other. Then do some research. I am confident you have all the information you need about the SDA from SDA sources. So, here is a real chance to surprise me - and actually do some honest research… go to a Catholic site to get the answers to your objections! Yeah, I know… but, here is your chance to really do a creidble job! In fact, here is a link on the Beatitudes I quote above: newadvent.org/cathen/02371a.htm While I think the home page on this site will answer all your questions, feel free to go to any Catholic site and research the answer you are claiming you have not found to your satisfaction.

Do this and I will be happy to respond to any of your questions.

God bless

 

[jpeach]

I’m coming into this far too late but as a former Adventist I have an unique view here.

1. St. Paul discusses that the “Law” including the 10 commandments (Ordinances) were nailed to Cross for a HIGHER law. The Christian is beholden to the spirit not just letter of law.
2. Law is a a tutor or guide now to this higher standard of spirit of Love.
3. Jesus, bestowed Holy Spirit on the Church to be its guide in morals and truth.

One additional comment: SDA holds a member to their conscience as to whether abortion can be preformed (specifically related to down’s syndrome babies). Much akin in my view of leaving it up to ones conscience to decide if old granny can be “put down” being as she’s infirmed now and is quite a burden.

 

[tqualey]

Now, Javl… I am going to have to call your hand on this one… You are expecting entirely too much!

The basic approach is to attack - and then when challenged, retreat with one of the following schemes: (1) ignore the request for genuine and intellegent dialogue totally, (2) act put out and accuse the responder of attacking or (3) quote non-specific scripture in an effort to put something on paper but continue to evade the issue.

My friend. The uneeded animosity is created on your side. I ask simple questions and expect an answer. Instead I am either completely ignored or some ridiculous statement
is made totaly unrelated to the subject or question asked. I am not angry, nor am I in any
way trying to ridicule your beliefs. I am trying to engage in simple dialogue to further
understand the SDA. I listen to your side, why don’t, or can’t, you listen to mine?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Any serious review of the posts on this thread will quickly unearth many of the posts asking for clarification - and, being ignored… responding - and then be accused of atttacking and then as just seen multiple scripture quotes that are great in and of themselves, but not relevant to the discussion at hand. Once you know how the game is played, you can play, too … if you want to. For my part, I have decided not to play until he does some work and starts researching his topic from other then SDA sources. After all … he is not on a SDA site…

Best wishes,

Tom

 

[Javl]

Now, Javl… I am going to have to call your hand on this one… You are expecting entirely too much!

The basic approach is to attack - and then when challenged, retreat with one of the following schemes: (1) ignore the request for genuine and intellegent dialogue totally, (2) act put out and accuse the responder of attacking or (3) quote non-specific scripture in an effort to put something on paper but continue to evade the issue.

Any serious review of the posts on this thread will quickly unearth many of the posts asking for clarification - and, being ignored… responding - and then be accused of atttacking and then as just seen multiple scripture quotes that are great in and of themselves, but not relevant to the discussion at hand. Once you know how the game is played, you can play, too … if you want to. For my part, I have decided not to play until he does some work and starts researching his topic from other then SDA sources. After all … he is not on a SDA site…

Best wishes,

Tom

Thanks Tom. And yes, I agree with you. The only one who really is intereted in dialoguing and answers all questions truthfully without beating around the bush is phummel..
He is truthful and honest and wishes you to understand the SDA position. I have the deepest respect and love for him. I am sure you will too. God Bless.

Len

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Thanks Tom. And yes, I agree with you. The only one who really is intereted in dialoguing and answers all questions truthfully without beating around the bush is phummel..
He is truthful and honest and wishes you to understand the SDA position. I have the deepest respect and love for him. I am sure you will too. God Bless.

Except Phummel is not representing the mainstream SDA position. Most SDAs would not recognize the group he is affiliating himself with as even being SDA.

 

[Akini]

The SDA church is not a Church at all. Their beliefs are based on the Old Testament stories. Almost every publication you read about SDA, you will always find their premeditated evil attacks on the Catholic Church. That’s simply what they are - to destroy the true & everlasting Kingdom of God on Earth. Anyway they CANNOT succeed because that is what Christ said in St. Matthew 16:17-19. Also keeping Saturday as holy is wrong. Sabbath was made for the good of man, man was made not to please the sabbath. Jesus threw away the Jewish sabbath and its false practices which sadly to say are still being practiced by the SDA sect.

SDAs tell us that they believe in the Bible. What Bible are they referring to? The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church and it is her baby. Remember, the Catholic Church came first, the Bible came after the Church. The 27 books of the New Testatment (NT) were approved by the Catholic Church and used everywhere and by every 'christian". You accept and use the Bible (particularly the NT), because you ADMIT the reliability or infalliability of the Catholic Church. If you don’t agree then find or produce your own home-made SDA BIBLE.

Akini

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Akini,

Welcome to the list…

Yes, the SDA just doesn’t seem to get any respect - from Catholics or from Protestants. And for good cause. You would think that being a cult would tell them something. While this is what E.G.White wanted, this is not the way to following Christ - only the way to following White.

The SDA church is not a Church at all. Their beliefs are based on the Old Testament stories. Almost every publication you read about SDA, you will always find their premeditated evil attacks on the Catholic Church. That’s simply what they are - to destroy the true & everlasting Kingdom of God on Earth. Anyway they CANNOT succeed because that is what Christ said in St. Matthew 16:17-19. Also keeping Saturday as holy is wrong. Sabbath was made for the good of man, man was made not to please the sabbath. Jesus threw away the Jewish sabbath and its false practices which sadly to say are still being practiced by the SDA sect.

SDAs tell us that they believe in the Bible. What Bible are they referring to? The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church and it is her baby. Remember, the Catholic Church came first, the Bible came after the Church. The 27 books of the New Testatment (NT) were approved by the Catholic Church and used everywhere and by every 'christian". You accept and use the Bible (particularly the NT), because you ADMIT the reliability or infalliability of the Catholic Church. If you don’t agree then find or produce your own home-made SDA BIBLE.

Akini

I think you will find this list to be a source of blessing and encouragement in your Faith.

God bless,

Tom

 

[benidict]

The SDA church is not a Church at all. Their beliefs are based on the Old Testament stories. Almost every publication you read about SDA, you will always find their premeditated evil attacks on the Catholic Church. That’s simply what they are - to destroy the true & everlasting Kingdom of God on Earth. Anyway they CANNOT succeed because that is what Christ said in St. Matthew 16:17-19. Also keeping Saturday as holy is wrong. Sabbath was made for the good of man, man was made not to please the sabbath. Jesus threw away the Jewish sabbath and its false practices which sadly to say are still being practiced by the SDA sect.

SDAs tell us that they believe in the Bible. What Bible are they referring to? The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church and it is her baby. Remember, the Catholic Church came first, the Bible came after the Church. The 27 books of the New Testatment (NT) were approved by the Catholic Church and used everywhere and by every 'christian". You accept and use the Bible (particularly the NT), because you ADMIT the reliability or infalliability of the Catholic Church. If you don’t agree then find or produce your own home-made SDA BIBLE.

Akini

hi, i think the jw’s tried this with their new world translation. it didnt work out to well. id rather have the sda reading the one they are using, instead of writing their own. it makes it so much easier for all concerned. i think we could use this argument for all protestants tho. not just sda. and some of their views are even further out there.lol! love your post tho. its interesting that no matter where in the world we are, we are all pretty much providing a solid front to all questions and critisims. i think it goes to show. the Catholic Church is the pillar of truth.

 

[gamewell45]

The SDA church is not a Church at all. Their beliefs are based on the Old Testament stories. Almost every publication you read about SDA, you will always find their premeditated evil attacks on the Catholic Church. That’s simply what they are - to destroy the true & everlasting Kingdom of God on Earth. Anyway they CANNOT succeed because that is what Christ said in St. Matthew 16:17-19. Also keeping Saturday as holy is wrong. Sabbath was made for the good of man, man was made not to please the sabbath. Jesus threw away the Jewish sabbath and its false practices which sadly to say are still being practiced by the SDA sect.

SDAs tell us that they believe in the Bible. What Bible are they referring to? The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church and it is her baby. Remember, the Catholic Church came first, the Bible came after the Church. The 27 books of the New Testatment (NT) were approved by the Catholic Church and used everywhere and by every 'christian". You accept and use the Bible (particularly the NT), because you ADMIT the reliability or infalliability of the Catholic Church. If you don’t agree then find or produce your own home-made SDA BIBLE.

Akini

They use the King James Version I think. Also as far as the Sabbath being on Saturday, please read: Isaiah 66: 22-23 for clarification. The Bible states that earth people will keep the sabbath until the end of time. Jesus never threw away the sabbath; he blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it. Constantine changed the sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday.