Seventh Day Adventists

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A great post from an anti-Catholic who picks and chooses whom he will answer, Also one who makes fantastic and ridiculous statements and when asked for proof conveniently ignores the request. It is such as you that gives Protestantism in general a bad name.Thank you for your statement. Now we know.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
Well you “knew” before anyways didn’t you. I have some very close friends who are Catholic, but such are hard to find on this forum; and yes, I do pick and choose due to time and energy restrictions I deal with here. And I must say; it was a lot more fun with my wife tonight that bickering away the night with you.👍
 
P101,

I will be happy to answer your questions - but, this means you will need to pay attention…😉
What kind of “fraud” did you say I was? One of the saddest I know. While unsuccessfully attempting to decieve members on this list, you appear to have successfully deceived yourself. Exactly how have I committed “fraud” on this forum? Let me count the ways…

1- when asked for specifics about the belief system of SDA you generalize and blur your responses by off-topic comments

2- you make derogatory comments about Catholic beliefs (e.g., based in pagan practices) and then when asked for specifics to back up such statements, you ignore the posters and their efforts to dialogue with you, and,

3- when you ‘re-enter’ the discussion you provide remarkable excuses for why you have not responded (in your very next sentence you drag your wife into your excuse system…and, surely she deserves better then this!) So rather then simply answering the questions, you play games. To my way of thinking this is a fraud.

I had a choice tonight of either answering to all the ridiculous statements here about Adventists, by all the Catholic “experts” or to go on a date with my wife; my time would not allow both, so guess which I did?

Sometimes, what is called “fraud” and other similar terms of imprecation are just as innocent as a man taking his wife out instead of arguing with a bunch of anti-Adventist malcontents. Considering your expressed low opinion of the members on the list, it is a marvel to me that you continue to engage such ‘malcontents’ . Why, even you must find this unique - unless we are talking about secondary gains.

But, I am out of time for now, Classic! there’s nothing sensible here to reply to anyways, Just dismissing any criticism as irrelevant and continuing on with your ‘dance’! and I am sure you will use this post as yet another excuse for your whimpering and whining about all the “personal failures” of Protestant101. There is no ‘whimpering and whining’ on my part - but, you have certainly laid bare all that I have been telling you from the start. I fully realize that you have, by now, dismissed this, too. But, my prayer is that some of this will come back and remind you that fraud is simply not tolerated or appreciated. I am sure your “message” will be appreciated around the world by many people. :highprayer:

I was quite interested in replying to Patrick about certain aspects of Adventist beliefs; but I guess he has done the same as you accuse me of? 🤷 Classic. “I was going to answer, but now I’m not - because I am dismissing your comments, again!” Personally, I just don’t see how you can write these consecutive contradictions and not be awere of just wha you are doing. This is what I really find so very sad.

I have heard over three years now the same tired Catholic responses to certain things; (You may have heard, but you certainly were neither paying attention or listening) and what I tend to do now is to avoid most of what I have already hashed through before in years gone by on this forum. Actually, you have avoided all efforts at honest dialogue. Your decision to remain in the SDA group is strictly yours. Your involvement on this list is strictly yours. But, you know, if you are going to take the time and effort to do these things, it would be in your own best interest to do them right. People like you keep trying to tell me how the Catholic Church doesn’t teach anything bad about Adventists; yet when one looks at forums like this; and what you say to me for “refusing” to answer, that is very hard to fathom. :confused: I can see why you are confused. Where I have a problem is why you want to continue this way. With all of the verbage you poured into this post - not one answer to any question has been provided. You may recall about the ‘other way’ to spell ‘denial’: D.E.K.I.A.L (Don’t Even Know I Am Lying).

I really don’t mind though when you want to call me names and throw out the accusations; (this is where the secondary gains comes in…) it is a good way for me to learn certain things too, (you have yet to demonstrate this…) but I would not want to try saying that I have good news of any kind for Adventists; (the good news you seek comes from honest dialogue … not in ‘dancing around issues’). if I was any one of most of the Catholic members of this forum. 😦
Now, if you are interested in classic whining and whimpering… that last sentence of yours deserves special recognition.

Personally, you may take this post in the nature it was intended - fraternal correction and benefit from it … or… you can fall back to your usual way of doing things and dismiss it, complain - and ‘dance around’ what has been said. My suggestion would be to just clearly answer the questions presented to you without excuses.

God bless
 
Well you “knew” before anyways didn’t you. I have some very close friends who are Catholic, but such are hard to find on this forum; and yes, I do pick and choose due to time and energy restrictions I deal with here. And I must say; it was a lot more fun with my wife tonight that bickering away the night with you.👍
Yes, I did “know”. Your being so restricted with time and energy sounds like a lame excuse. If your restriction is so, then why bother coming into the forum and participate in these threads? It can serve no useful dialogue and gives a bad impression. And please don’t let me stop you from enjoying your bickering with your wife.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
What a shame, SDA’s believe that anyone who worships on Sunday is worshiping the Beast and his whore of Babylon. They teach that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon. I have watched several of their “seminars” on line and have an acquaintance that is SDA. The lies and filth that they spew about Gods church are unbelievable. They teach that the Catholic Church in the near future will put to death any Christian who refuses to worship on Sunday. They brainwash their followers with a twisted interpretation of several scriptures, and have re-written the history of the Church to suit their propaganda.
The only scriptures they care about are the ones they can twist into lies to make traps for the unwary. I have little charity for this group, for I do not believe they are at all Christian, and I welcome the chance to debate with them any time.
Hi Greggy , don’t give up on them. Prove them with the scripture(verse by verse) that they might be wrong.

God bless you

God bless you as you deligently search the scripture
 
The Seventh Day Adventist church is a false church with false doctrines. Ellen G. White is a liar and a plagiarist and a false prophet. Show me in the New Testament where Christians are obligated to follow the Sabbath commandment. This commandment is not even binding on anyone except Jews or converts to Judaism in the Old Testament. I suggest you read the account of Moses receiving the 10 commandments in the old testament. Moses said these laws were given to him and the Jews at that time. Their forefathers new nothing about the 10 commandments, including your precious Sabbath. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not keep the Sabbath. Noah did not keep the Sabbath. Adam and Eve did not keep the Sabbath. God told the Jews, and only the Jews, at that time to remember the Sabbath because otherwise they would forget since they had never kept the Sabbath before. I can hear Moses now: Now remember people, tomorrow is the Sabbath. We have never done this before, so let’s all try to remember. You are obviously very unfamiliar with Saint Paul. He explains how the Sabbath was done away with. He never kept it either after his experience on the Damascus road. The Sabbath was a ceremonial law and was only meant to be temporary. That is why it alone of the 10 is not repeated in the New Testament. You seem to think that the 10 commandments are all God has. Does God have any other commandments or just the 10? Hint: God has much more. John 14:15 is not talking about the 10 commandments. Read John 15. Jesus command is that we love one another. You claim to want to be obedient to God. Then observe that in John 20:23 Jesus gave us the sacrament of confession? Why are you being disobedient?
Walker, you may be right by saying that the 10 commandment was not given to Adam and Eve or Abraham. It was only given to Moses on mount Sanai. Yes , i agree with you(some one may correct me). God gave this commandments as a sign or covernant for them to know him and remeber him as their God who lead them out of Egypt and to the promise land .But my question to you is "why did Jesus say in the new tastament i come not to destry the law(10 commandment) but to fulfil. Also we find him going to the synagogue on Sabbath. Sure God can give us More than 10 commandment but he knows that the 10 command sume uo our duty towards him(Thou shalt not have other Gods before me, remeber the Sabbath Day to keep it holyetc) and to our neighbours(thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not committ adultary,etc. You will realize the first 4 commandments are our duty towards God and the other six are our duty towards men.

God bless
 
Javl;5968984:
That would be Saturday…The day named after the pagan God Saturn.😃
Hi greggy thanks for yur inspired thought to my curiosity . Let’s discuss it further; did Julius Caesar changed the day when he came up with a Calendar or still using the same day(s) as been kept by the jews during Moses time up to Jesus time in the new tastament to make a calendar.? If he is still using the same day and giving now the name of the days(sunday, mon to sabbath) then the sabbath is still the sabbath. It is still the day(now named as Saturday)that was even kept by the old tastement.

Thank you, God bless
 
Hi, Sosolak,

Welcome to the list… 🙂

I think Walker is totally correct in what he said.
Walker, you may be right by saying that the 10 commandment was not given to Adam and Eve or Abraham. It was only given to Moses on mount Sanai. Yes , i agree with you(some one may correct me). God gave this commandments as a sign or covernant for them to know him and remeber him as their God who lead them out of Egypt and to the promise land .But my question to you is "why did Jesus say in the new tastament i come not to destry the law(10 commandment) but to fulfil. Also we find him going to the synagogue on Sabbath. Sure God can give us More than 10 commandment but he knows that the 10 command sume uo our duty towards him(Thou shalt not have other Gods before me, remeber the Sabbath Day to keep it holyetc) and to our neighbours(thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not committ adultary,etc. You will realize the first 4 commandments are our duty towards God and the other six are our duty towards men.

God bless
“The Law” to the Jews was far more then the 10 Commandments… it is other-wise known as the Torah. Here is a link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah. If you want another way to look at this and how Christ fulfilled the Law, the 10 Commandments would be like learning the alphabet, the Beatitudes would be writing a love letter. Here in Matthew 5:1-12 is where we as Christians are challenged to move beyond the basic as we follow Christ.

**1
When he saw the crowds, he went up the mountain, and after he had sat down, his disciples came to him.
2
He began to teach them, saying:
3
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4
Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.
5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.
6
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
7
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
8
Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.
9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
10
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11
Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.
12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you. **

In my opinion, the time and effort spent on ‘defending and re-defining’ the Sabbath in the manner of the SDA is a sinful waste of both time and talent. Christ has set the tasks before us in these verses - did you notice that there is no, “Blessed are the Sabbath keepers…” ? Many of the reasons for this were identified by Walker. Let me add one more: from the time that Moses received the 10 Commandments until Christ began His Public Ministery, the Jewish religious leaders had put all kinds of requirements and restrictions on the Sabbath so that it became binding chains. When Christ told the Pharisees (Mark 2:27) that the Sabbath was made for man - Christ freed man from these man-made observances…so that man could focus on God.

Just look around you at the SDA approach to worshiping God. E. G. White with her limited focus and her desire for the novel on brought a group of floundering Millerites out of their Great Disappointment and headed them off towards destruction from a new cliff.

My suggestion would be to go over what Walker posted and do some prayerful reflection. The challenge that Christ gave us in Matthew 5 is still with us. With His Grace we can move forward to this Blessed state as we interact in the real world where grief, pride, hungar and a host of other evils are still with us.

God bless
 
Hi, Techno2000,

I think you are just beating a dead horse…😃
From what I have seen, this guy has just ‘danced’ his way off the path of serious discussion. I am still waiting for a response to Post #761 and #813 … but, I shall not hold my breath on that! 😃 My suggestion would be not to hold your either - he just evades and taunts those who try to hold a serious discussion.

There was a time when I thought he was serious. But, not any more … it really appears to be just a game of spewing out malicious statements from his cult’s abundant library of anti-Catholic material - and then running away when confronted. I called this approach fraud - and he has yet to do anything to convince me he is honest in his postings.

My guess is that anyone who willingly engages in this type of hollowness still has something to offer the group! He can surely represent the bad example in posting…:eek:

God bless
 
greggy53;5968989:
Hi greggy thanks for yur inspired thought to my curiosity . Let’s discuss it further; did Julius Caesar changed the day when he came up with a Calendar or still using the same day(s) as been kept by the jews during Moses time up to Jesus time in the new tastament to make a calendar.? If he is still using the same day and giving now the name of the days(sunday, mon to sabbath) then the sabbath is still the sabbath. It is still the day(now named as Saturday)that was even kept by the old tastement.

Thank you, God bless
As far as I can recall my patron saint Gregory the great gave us the edition of the calendar that we use today. Saturday is the seventh day. The day of rest. Sunday is the first day of the week. In Genesis it was the first day of creation. (This is not brain surgery, and you are not going to succeed in confusing it) We Christians don’t worship on Saturday because that is the day our Lord rested in the tomb. It is a day of mourning. Instead we worship on the 1st day of creation when our Lord rose from the dead as a new creation, and renewed all things. You can call Saturday the Sabbath that’s ok with me. You can quote all the scripture you want about the Sabbath and that’s ok too. But as a Christian I worship on Sunday because that is when God’s Church says we should worship, and for the reasons the Church has given. The Catholic Church has the authority to do so. (It’s in the Bible), but you and your group do not. The Bible is not the final answer on everything. The Church however has the final authority on everything. “Whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven”. You might want to read Acts chapter 15, the council of Jerusalem. There you will find that the Church decided to go against scripture. The Church has the authority not you or me. It’s that simple.
 
As far as I can recall my patron saint Gregory the great gave us the edition of the calendar that we use today. Saturday is the seventh day. The day of rest. Sunday is the first day of the week. In Genesis it was the first day of creation. (This is not brain surgery, and you are not going to succeed in confusing it) We Christians don’t worship on Saturday because that is the day our Lord rested in the tomb. It is a day of mourning. Instead we worship on the 1st day of creation when our Lord rose from the dead as a new creation, and renewed all things. You can call Saturday the Sabbath that’s ok with me. You can quote all the scripture you want about the Sabbath and that’s ok too. But as a Christian I worship on Sunday because that is when God’s Church says we should worship, and for the reasons the Church has given. The Catholic Church has the authority to do so. (It’s in the Bible), but you and your group do not. The Bible is not the final answer on everything. The Church however has the final authority on everything. “Whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven”. You might want to read Acts chapter 15, the council of Jerusalem. There you will find that the Church decided to go against scripture. The Church has the authority not you or me. It’s that simple.
Yes greggy. The Church has the authority to change the day of worship. But keep in mind that the first day of creation did not mean a Sunday. We really don’t know which day of “our week” was the first day of creation. It could have been any day at all. It is we who named the days of the week and determined that Sunday should be the first. Also, Sabbath does not mean Saturday. It means rest. Since the seventh day of “our” week is Saturday, we make it the Sabbbath. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Yes greggy. The Church has the authority to change the day of worship. But keep in mind that the first day of creation did not mean a Sunday. We really don’t know which day of “our week” was the first day of creation. It could have been any day at all. It is we who named the days of the week and determined that Sunday should be the first. Also, Sabbath does not mean Saturday. It means rest. Since the seventh day of “our” week is Saturday, we make it the Sabbbath. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
From what I have read of the early Church fathers Sunday was named for the first day of creation. When the Lord God separated the light from the darkness. The Seventh day was the day our Lord rested. Of course we don’t know for certain what actual day of the week it was. That is irrelevant. If the Roman pagans called them Saturday, and Sunday, and the Hebrews called Saturday Sabbath what of it? Why complicate it?. After all it means to us is what it means to us. A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet.🙂
 
From what I have read of the early Church fathers Sunday was named for the first day of creation. When the Lord God separated the light from the darkness. The Seventh day was the day our Lord rested. Of course we don’t know for certain what actual day of the week it was. That is irrelevant. If the Roman pagans called them Saturday, and Sunday, and the Hebrews called Saturday Sabbath what of it? Why complicate it?. After all it means to us is what it means to us. A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet.🙂
Yes, it makes no difference to us. but the emphasis that the SDAs place on Saturday is as if God named the seventh day Saturday and made Saturday the rest day. That is the point I’m trying to get across. They are so wrapped up in ritual like the Pharisees and scribes of old that they can’t see the deep pit of the error that they have fallen into.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Yes, it makes no difference to us. but the emphasis that the SDAs place on Saturday is as if God named the seventh day Saturday and made Saturday the rest day. That is the point I’m trying to get across. They are so wrapped up in ritual like the Pharisees and scribes of old that they can’t see the deep pit of the error that they have fallen into.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
Lost in Ritual and their interpretation of the Bible. “They can’t see the forest for the trees.”🤷
 
Hey, Fellas …

Have you noticed that the field has been cleared of SDA supporters…?
Lost in Ritual and their interpretation of the Bible. “They can’t see the forest for the trees.”🤷
Now, it could be that they have found a dark recess in the internet … a www-type pothole, maybe… 😃 and will not be heard again. Then again … they may suddenly spring to life like one hit in the head by something and going into a coma…! Who knows, even P101 may wander back here.

Anyway, continue with your excellent posts.

God bless
 
Hey, Fellas …

Have you noticed that the field has been cleared of SDA supporters…?

Now, it could be that they have found a dark recess in the internet … a www-type pothole, maybe… 😃 and will not be heard again. Then again … they may suddenly spring to life like one hit in the head by something and going into a coma…! Who knows, even P101 may wander back here.

Anyway, continue with your excellent posts.

God bless
Yep. Like the Mormons ( who they closely resemble ) they disappear to gather their tattered forces again and/or send in new troops to do battle. As for P101, I’m sorry but he’s not qualified to answer any questions, what with his hemming and hawing and picking and choosing, etc. I would not communicate with him. He has too many lame excuses. I’m sorry to be so harsh, but it’s true.

By the way, you’re an excellent first class poster.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Hey, Fellas …
Have you noticed that the field has been cleared of SDA supporters…?
Now, it could be that they have found a dark recess in the internet … a www-type pothole, maybe… 😃 and will not be heard again. Then again … they may suddenly spring to life like one hit in the head by something and going into a coma…! Who knows, even P101 may wander back here.

Anyway, continue with your excellent posts.

God bless
Perhaps, drawn like a moth to the flame…I think he and others still monitor. My hope is that they take some of what they have read here back to their leaders (should I be calling them ministers?) and question them. Our message to all SDA’s should be: “Come let us reason together.”
I think that is somewhere in the Bible;)
 
Perhaps, drawn like a moth to the flame…I think he and others still monitor. My hope is that they take some of what they have read here back to their leaders (should I be calling them ministers?) and question them. Our message to all SDA’s should be: “Come let us reason together.”
I think that is somewhere in the Bible;)
I agree. By the way "come let us reason together " is a favorite of the Jehovahs Witnesses. they use it all the time.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Although I have been following this thread for some time, I have been a little reluctant to post to this thread since some of the exchanges seemed a little, um, spicy! :slapfight: However, I think I will weigh in with a little observation of my own. Both of my parents are staunch Seventh-day Adventists, and I was baptized into that church as an adolescent. After I moved away from home I began studying the Scriptures independently, and this eventually led me to the One True Faith. I must say that in most of my interactions with members of the SDA church, I have developed a strong impression that they tend to be a bit aggressive in their approach to discussing any faith other than their own. I have fallen victim to rather “bullying” tactics by SDA members more than once. Sadly, the exchanges in this thread have only reinforced that impression.

Another thing that worries me about the SDA church is it’s propensity to spawn a variety of fringe groups and schisms that in some cases can be quite dangerous (such as the Branch Davidians, which broke off from another SDA sect known as the Davidian Seventh-day Adventists). I have had some rather frightening personal experiences with members of a SDA fringe group that eventually culminated in my having a Temporary Restraining Order placed on some of their members (they began following me around, showing up on my doorstep and trying to prevent me from entering my home, they came to my place of employment and harassed colleagues, etc.). This all happened after I told my parents and SDA pastor that I was going to be joining the Catholic Church. My parents have refused to speak to me since that announcement, although I joined the Church many years ago.

I am now rambling, forgive me! My point is just to say that my personal experiences with this faith were not positive. It is unfortunate that no meaningful dialogue could have been engaged here. It was impossible to discuss matters of faith with people in the SDA church when I converted, because they were as evasive, passive-aggressive and argumentative as some of the people who have posted here. Reading through the exchanges that have taken place here have reminded me of similar exchanges I have had with SDA members. It is regrettable that things just haven’t changed that much, even after all these years!
 
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