Seventh Day Adventists

[Richard_Kastner]

The Seventh Day Adventist church is a false church with false doctrines. Ellen G. White is a liar and a plagiarist and a false prophet.

I would probably be banned from this forum if I made a statement like this about the CC.
I struggled with ever replying on this thread again because of acrimonious statements like this. But you bring up some questions that really need to be answered.

Show me in the New Testament where Christians are obligated to follow the Sabbath commandment. This commandment is not even binding on anyone except Jews or converts to Judaism in the Old Testament.

Mark2
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Doesn’t say anything here about the sabbath being made for the Jews only. Also, if the son of man (Jesus) is Lord of the sabbath wouldn’t that make the sabbath the Lord’s day.

I suggest you read the account of Moses receiving the 10 commandments in the old testament. Moses said these laws were given to him and the Jews at that time.

Are you suggesting that the ten commandments weren’t given to all the world, just the Jews. Wouldn’t that mean that they are not binding on anyone but the Jews? I did what you suggested and found this in Exodus 19

5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

What I here you saying is that Christians of the new testament are not a peculiar treasure to God and they are not a kingdom of priests and an holy nation. How sad for you. I choose to claim these promises of God. Compare this with 1 Peter 2

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Its pretty obvious to me that Peter is quoting Exodus 19 here. He adds however **“that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;” ** Let me ask you walker p Who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Would not that be Jesus (The Word) The same one who gave Moses the ten commandments. And if that is true (and it is) then isn’t Jesus calling us {all christians) to "obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant"

Their forefathers new nothing about the 10 commandments, including your precious Sabbath. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not keep the Sabbath. Noah did not keep the Sabbath. Adam and Eve did not keep the Sabbath.

This statement is just not true. Consider this:Gen.3: 6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. If thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. Well what is sin 1Jn.3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom.5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. So the law was in the world from the very beginning.

God told the Jews, and only the Jews, at that time to remember the Sabbath because otherwise they would forget since they had never kept the Sabbath before. I can hear Moses now: Now remember people, tomorrow is the Sabbath. We have never done this before, so let’s all try to remember.

I’m sorry brother but this doesn’t make any sense at all. How can you remember someting that you knew nothing of in the first place? The fact is this word implies two uses. Remember what has gone before because they had forgotten in the 430 yrs. of Egyptian captivity and remember it in the future. Consider this: Isaiah 24:5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. What is the everlasting covenant, the ordinance that has been changed?
Ex.31:16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

You are obviously very unfamiliar with Saint Paul. He explains how the Sabbath was done away with. He never kept it either after his experience on the Damascus road.

Well, I guess you are not as familiar with Paul as you think you are. In Acts18 Paul goes to Corinth 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Notice he pesuaded Jews and Greeks. Apparently Pauls preaching was so powerful that the Greeks came to the synagoge to hear him on the sabbath day. v11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. Thats 78 sabbaths. After this he went to Ephesus Acts19: 8And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. That’s 12 sabbaths. v.10 10And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks. That’s 104 sabbaths. From these three verses alone we see Paul preaching the word of God in synagoges to both Jews and gentiles on 194 sabbaths.

The Sabbath was a ceremonial law and was only meant to be temporary.

The sabbath commandment was spoken by the mouth of an unchanging God and written in stone by His own finger to signify it’s permanance. Also see Isaiah 24:5 and Ex. 31:16 above.

That is why it alone of the 10 is not repeated in the New Testament.

Mark2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

You seem to think that the 10 commandments are all God has. Does God have any other commandments or just the 10? Hint: God has much more. John 14:15 is not talking about the 10 commandments. Read John 15. Jesus command is that we love one another. You claim to want to be obedient to God. Then observe that in John 20:23 Jesus gave us the sacrament of confession? Why are you being disobedient?

Matt.22:34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

You know of coarse when Jesus answered the pharisee lawyer He was quoting the old testament.
Deu.6:5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Lev.19:18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
and that these two commandments are a synopsis of God’s law of love The ten commandments. Notice v. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. On these two commandments the synopsis of the ten, first four deal with love of God, last six deal with love of neighbour, hang all the law and the prophets or God’s plan of salvation.

 

[Javl]

Well, I guess you are not as familiar with Paul as you think you are. In Acts18 Paul goes to Corinth 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Notice he pesuaded Jews and Greeks. Apparently Pauls preaching was so powerful that the Greeks came to the synagoge to hear him on the sabbath day. v11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. Thats 78 sabbaths. After this he went to Ephesus Acts19: 8And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. That’s 12 sabbaths. v.10 10And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks. That’s 104 sabbaths. From these three verses alone we see Paul preaching the word of God in synagoges to both Jews and gentiles on 194 sabbaths.

The sabbath commandment was spoken by the mouth of an unchanging God and written in stone by His own finger to signify it’s permanance. Also see Isaiah 24:5 and Ex. 31:16 above.

Mark2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Matt.22:34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

You know of coarse when Jesus answered the pharisee lawyer He was quoting the old testament.
Deu.6:5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Lev.19:18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
and that these two commandments are a synopsis of God’s law of love The ten commandments. Notice v. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. On these two commandments the synopsis of the ten, first four deal with love of God, last six deal with love of neighbour, hang all the law and the prophets or God’s plan of salvation.

But Acts also does not say that Paul did not worship on a Sunday. Although the Jews kept Saturday as the Sabbath, Paul had to preach Jesus in the Synagogue after the services since the Jews were still assembled there. Also if any Jew had a message for Jews, the synagogue is where it was read ( as is still done among the Orthodox today ).
The Synagogue was/is a meeting place for the Jews. As for the Gentiles going to the synagogue on the Sabbath, the reason is obvious.

Also as I’ve stated before, the Law and Covenant was meant for the Jews. Jesus’ resurrection gave us a new creation and Jesus gave us a new and everlasting Covenant.
And He also gave us a new commandment “to love your neighbor as yourself”. If we adhere to and follow this commandment we cannot break any of the old. Don’t forget, those that live by the Law will be judged by the law.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

But Acts also does not say that Paul did not worship on a Sunday.

I’m sure Paul worshiped every day as these texts seem to indicate.

Acts5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
Acts16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
This is not however any kind of proof that the sabbath had been changed.

Although the Jews kept Saturday as the Sabbath,

You make it sound as though they had a choice. They did not. The day is prescribed by God not selected by man.

Paul had to preach Jesus in the Synagogue after the services since the Jews were still assembled there.

You make it sound as if Paul was allowed to preach as an after thought in the basement. Paul was the main coarse in the sabbath worship service, as is indicated in Acts 13:15And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
16Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
After which Paul declares Jesus to them.

Also if any Jew had a message for Jews, the synagogue is where it was read ( as is still done among the Orthodox today ).
The Synagogue was/is a meeting place for the Jews. As for the Gentiles going to the synagogue on the Sabbath, the reason is obvious.

It’s interesting after Paul gets done preaching in the synagoge on the sabbath day. We see this:
42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Now would not this have been an opportune time if Paul had been keeping Sunday to simply say. I’ll see you tomorrow, Sunday, but he doesn’t do that. Verse 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. You have to realise that most of the people he was talking to here were not Jews, but he preaches to them the next sabbath day. Paul was a sabbath keeper.

Also as I’ve stated before, the Law and Covenant was meant for the Jews. Jesus’ resurrection gave us a new creation and Jesus gave us a new and everlasting Covenant.
And He also gave us a new commandment “to love your neighbor as yourself”. If we adhere to and follow this commandment we cannot break any of the old. Don’t forget, those that live by the Law will be judged by the law.

I think I’ve covered this comprehensively in my first post.

 

[Javl]

I’m sure Paul worshiped every day as these texts seem to indicate.

Acts5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
Acts16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
This is not however any kind of proof that the sabbath had been changed.

It also can be considered as no kind of proof that it had not.

You make it sound as though they had a choice. They did ot. The day is prescribed by God not selected by man.

How does it sound as if they had a choice? They were sticklers of and for the law.

You make it sound as if Paul was allowed to preach as an after thought in the basement. Paul was the main coarse in the sabbath worship service, as is indicated in Acts 13:15And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
16Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
After which Paul declares Jesus to them.

This point you dont, or refuse to understand. Being Orthodox and sticklers of the Law, worship of God took precedence, after which Paul may have been allowed to preach. Preaching Jesus during the services would have been considered blasphemous.
Even today, in synagogue, services come first, after which anyone may speak. Also, today, as in those days, anything of importance is always disseminated in synagogue, with or without services. It is a standard gathering place.

It’s interesting after Paul gets done preaching in the synagoge on the sabbath day. We see this:
42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

And?

Now would not this have been an opportune time if Paul had been keeping Sunday to simply say. I’ll see you tomorrow, Sunday, but he doesn’t do that. Verse 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. You have to realise that most of the people he was talking to here were not Jews, but he preaches to them the next sabbath day. Paul was a sabbath keeper.

I think I’ve covered this comprehensively in my first post.

As you say of, and to, others, Paul was not necessarily a Sabbath keeper. There is no proof either way. And I also have covered this subject comprehensively in my other posts on this thread.

As an added note. If you wish to worship on a Saturday, that is your perogative, but please do not say that we are wrong for worshipping on a Sunday, or that we follow pagan customs. We do not, but can hurl unpleasant epitaphs about the LDS also.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

As you say of, and to, others, Paul was not necessarily a Sabbath keeper. There is no proof either way.

The evidence however is overwhelming. Paul was a sabbath keeper.

As an added note. If you wish to worship on a Saturday, that is your perogative, but please do not say that we are wrong for worshipping on a Sunday, or that we follow pagan customs. We do not, but can hurl unpleasant epitaphs about the LDS also

First of all I’m not LDS. I’m Seventh Day Adventist and I didn’t hurl unpleasant epitaphs and I certainly did not say you followed pagan customs and I would not say that you or anyone is wrong for worshipping on Sunday or any other day. You do well when you worship every day. What I have a problem with is when you substitute Sunday for the Sabbath day and say that the sanctity of the day has been changed. This is an effrontery to God Who blessed and sanctified the seventh day Sabbath.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Catdan,

WOW! I do not think I have ever seen such a lengthy post… One thing I am quite sure about: you certainly worked hard at putting out this material…! Considering the volume you presented, there may be a copyright violation… but, that is another matter… So, let’s take a look…

Identifying the Antichrist - Part 1

youtube.com/watch?v=R2CJTFSU6Bk&feature=player_embedded

Identifying the Antichrist - Part 2

youtube.com/watch?v=Uizh2nGCTKc&feature=related

You received several excellent comments that criticized your approach (or, at least the approach used by the author of the material you copied) - and, I won’t burden you with a repitition of those valid concerns. But, two things did catch my eye as I honestly tried to understand the content of the copied text:

1.) As in all logic, a error in either the major or minor premis establishishes the foundation for an error in the conclusion. The author of your text commits seveal errors.

      The amount of time and effort cross referencing the prophetic works of Daniel and Revelations is of interest.  Then trying to hang this on the Papacy because it is located in Rome is simply absurd.  Naturally, such an activity falls right in line with your bashing of the CC and the Vicar of Christ on earth - but, you have really chosen the wrong path.  Why?  Well, we need to have a sense of history to grasp what is really going on here.  From 306 - 324 Constantine was Emperor of the Roman Empire ([en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_of_the_Roman_Empire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_of_the_Roman_Empire)).  Prior to his rule, the Christians were a persecuted religious group that enjoyed neither status or protection, and in fact were murdered for their Faith. In 313 Constantine issued the Edict of Milan that recognized and protected the Christians. I really do not know anyone who argues with that as a simple historical fact.  Just stop there and think about that for a moment.  Here we have the Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter (this took place sometime between  30 - 33) with Peter being martyred in about 64 ([en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter)) still apparently going strong for more then 250 years before Constantine took power.  The issue that must be addressed is: just how did this group survive this most bloody period?  I submit to you that the answer lies in John 14:12-18.

12
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
13
And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14
If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.
15
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always,
17
the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.
18
I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

2.) Your quoted author went to great lenghts specific to one of the marks of the beast would be a denial of the Humanity of Christ. Again, there is a bit of history that has been overlooked. Here is a link on Catholic Church Councils: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Ecumenical_Councils .

Here are some of the heresies that attacked the Early Catholic Church:

The Docetists denied that ‘the Christ’ ever had a real body.
The Ebionites taught that Christ was not pre-existent and only had the Spirit after His baptism.
The Arians viewed Christ as a demi-god, neither fully human nor fully God.
The Nestorians believed Christ had two persons and was not a unified person.
The Monarchians, believed Christ and the Spirit mere ‘functions’ of the Father.
The Gnostics taught that Christ was just another level between God and man
The Eutychianics acknowledged that there were two natures in Christ before He came to earth, but the human was subsumed into the divine – Christ was a mixture of God and man

And the Catholic Church responded to these challenges in the following manner:

The First Council of Nicaea (325) formulated the original Nicene Creed. Most importantly, the council defined the equality of God Father and Christ, his son. It taught, that Jesus was of the same substance as God the Father and not just merely similar. By defining the nature of the divinity of Jesus, the council did not solely rely on the Bible but jointly gave it a binding interpretation. Arianism was repudiated.

The First Council of Constantinople (381) defined in four canons the Nicene Creed, which is still used in the Catholic Church in the original form. Most importantly, it defined the divinity of the Holy Spirit, which is derived but not defined in the Bible. Thus the Council interpreted on the Apostolic Tradition.

The Council of Ephesus (431) proclaimed the Virgin Mary as the Theotokos ( “Mother of God”). It rejected Nestorianism

The Second Council of Constantinople (553) again dealt with the issue of the two natures of Christ, as monophysitism had spread through Christianity despite the decisions of Chalcedon. The Council met from May 5 until June 2, 553

There is no pretense of arranging things so that total count is equal to 666 -like this was some kind of math exercise and you come up with a number. You presented an author who presents page after page of distortions - without really looking at Christ as the answer or the historical facts - that, of course, pre-date E.G.White. And, there is where the rub begins.

God bless

 

[Javl]

The evidence however is overwhelming. Paul was a sabbath keeper.

Sorry, but the evidence is not overwhlming. It is only so in your eyes.

First of all I’m not LDS. I’m Seventh Day Adventist and I didn’t hurl unpleasant epitaphs and I certainly did not say you followed pagan customs and I would not say that you or anyone is wrong for worshipping on Sunday or any other day. You do well when you worship every day. What I have a problem with is when you substitute Sunday for the Sabbath day and say that the sanctity of the day has been changed. This is an effrontery to God Who blessed and sanctified the seventh day Sabbath.

My sincerest apologies for my error in calling you LDS. I had just come from a thread with LDS when I posted here.

You personaly may not have said that we followed pagan customs, but other SDAs have said so. I requested proof of the charges but have never received any.

As for substituting Sunday for Saturday, first off, Sabbath means rest and it could be any day of the week. Then as mentioned many times before, with Jesus’ resurrection there was a new creation, the old law was fulfilled and a new covenant was given to us By Jesus. The old covenant, which incudes the law was for the Jews only. The followers of Christ, Jew and Gentile, were no longer under any obligation to follow the old law. Jesus gave us a new one “to love your neighbor as yourself”. this supercedes the old law for if you adhere to it you do not need the old law. In the eyes of the SDA alone has the sanctity of the day been changed and it is not an effrontery to God. If it were so, then we would all still worship on a Saturday.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Sorry, but the evidence is not overwhlming. It is only so in your eyes.

These quotes from two of my posts

Well, I guess you are not as familiar with Paul as you think you are. In Acts18 Paul goes to Corinth 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Notice he pesuaded Jews and Greeks. Apparently Pauls preaching was so powerful that the Greeks came to the synagoge to hear him on the sabbath day. v11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. Thats 78 sabbaths. After this he went to Ephesus Acts19: 8And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. That’s 12 sabbaths. v.10 10And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks. That’s 104 sabbaths. From these three verses alone we see Paul preaching the word of God in synagoges to both Jews and gentiles on 194 sabbaths.

It’s interesting after Paul gets done preaching in the synagoge on the sabbath day. We see this:
42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

If you don’t find these verses compelling evidence that Paul was a Sabbath keeper, then I guess nothing will convince you

As for substituting Sunday for Saturday, first off, Sabbath means rest and it could be any day of the week.

Not true,
Gen.2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Luke 23:53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

In Gen.2:3 we see the Lord blessing and sanctifying the seventh day.

In Ex.20:10 we see that the seventh day is the Sabbath day.

And in Luke 23:53-56 we see that the Sabbath day lies between the Preperation day, the day Jesus was taken down from the cross or Friday and the first day or Sunday. That would make the Sabbath Saturday. Notice that the women left the body because they rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Apparently they didn’t think the day was changed.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Then as mentioned many times before, with Jesus’ resurrection there was a new creation, the old law was fulfilled and a new covenant was given to us By Jesus.

What does that mean “to fullfill”. It certainly does not mean to do away with, because the whole quote in Matt5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. What Jesus means here is that He is the only one that fullfilled the requirements of the law perfectly. In other words He kept the law perfectly.

Ex. 19:5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

In Ex.19:8 We see the people saying "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do"
Well we know they failed and in order for God’s plan of salvation to work God had to have His covenant fullfilled. So Heb.8:7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The them here refered to is specifically the Mosaic Jews and generally all of mankind and the fault found with them was/is sin. Rom.3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; The difference between the old and the new covenant is not the wording of the covenant (the ten commandments). That’s the same. The difference is in who the covenant is with. The old with the people, who make no provision for the Spirit of God to help them “All that the LORD hath spoken we will do” The new with one man, the Son of God. Who abides eternally with the Father Jn 17:22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So the law has not been done away with. As we see in Jer. 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

In the new covenant the law will be written on our minds and in our hearts by the Spirit of almighty God through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
1Jn:2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The old covenant, which incudes the law was for the Jews only. The followers of Christ, Jew and Gentile, were no longer under any obligation to follow the old law. Jesus gave us a new one “to love your neighbor as yourself”. this supercedes the old law for if you adhere to it you do not need the old law.

Well’ first of all there were two laws that Jesus quoted from the old testament. The first was Deu. 6:5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Lev. 19: 18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

These two laws are a sumery of the decalogue.

In the eyes of the SDA alone has the sanctity of the day been changed

You have this backwards javl SDA keep the seventh day sabbath of God. It is the CC that has thought to change times and laws. Dan. 7:25

and it is not an effrontery to God. If it were so, then we would all still worship on a Saturday.

Well as I have shown Saturday is the seventh day Sabbath and God blessed and sanctified the seventh day Sabbath and the CC has trampled on God’s blessing by trying to usurp God’s authority and ignoring that blessing. I would say that certainly is an effrontery to God.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Richard,

Basically, the evidence we have, at least as I understand it, is that Paul probably worshiped every day. He worshiped on the Sabbath - no doubt about that! But, I think that too much is being placed on what is honestly ambibuous evidence.

These quotes from two of my posts

Well, I guess you are not as familiar with Paul as you think you are. In Acts18 Paul goes to Corinth 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Notice he pesuaded Jews and Greeks. Apparently Pauls preaching was so powerful that the Greeks came to the synagoge to hear him on the sabbath day. v11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. Thats 78 sabbaths. After this he went to Ephesus Acts19: 8And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. That’s 12 sabbaths. v.10 10And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks. That’s 104 sabbaths. From these three verses alone we see Paul preaching the word of God in synagoges to both Jews and gentiles on 194 sabbaths.

No doubt about it - Paul’s God inspired preaching was powerful! But, don’t forget, there were also converts to the Jewish faith who would have been considered Gentiles until such time as they completed their initiation. I have no doubt that other Gentiles (non-converts to Judiasm) came to listen to Paul, too

It’s interesting after Paul gets done preaching in the synagoge on the sabbath day. We see this:
42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

If you don’t find these verses compelling evidence that Paul was a Sabbath keeper, then I guess nothing will convince you

Not true,
Gen.2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Luke 23:53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

In Gen.2:3 we see the Lord blessing and sanctifying the seventh day.

In Ex.20:10 we see that the seventh day is the Sabbath day.

And in Luke 23:53-56 we see that the Sabbath day lies between the Preperation day, the day Jesus was taken down from the cross or Friday and the first day or Sunday. That would make the Sabbath Saturday. Notice that the women left the body because they rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Apparently they didn’t think the day was changed.

For me the heart of the matter is that Christ gave Peter the authority to change anything he chose to change - and this would be under the direction of the Holy Spirit (Matt 16). So, the real issue is that Peter, as leader of the Catholic Church, made the change - and that was that.

Everything really is secondary to the fact that Christ is really in charge and made changes that were necessary. Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church and keep it from teaching error. Christ did not promise that the leades of the Church would be sinless - and Peter gave some stunning examples in this area - most notable were denying Christ!

God bless

 

[phummel]

Well I don’t know where you get that philosophy from. Jesus certainly gave a lot of authority to the disciples. They cast out demons and healed the sick in his name. If that isn’t claiming God’s authority and power I don’t know what is.

From my Protestant point of view, we all have the authority of the disciples.

I don’t believe you have to be a member of a church to ask for or receive God’s mercy. But he did establish a Church, and he did give the leaders of that Church his authority. It’s all over the NT.

It’s good talking to you. I’m starting to flush out the differences. I guess it’s the concept of exclusive authority that makes me uncomfortable. That is, only clergy members of the Roman Catholic Church has the authority to do things in God’s name. It’s the exclusiveness… I.e., I don’t have the authority to read the Bible and pray and interpret scripture.

I have a nephew who told me once that he wouldn’t go to Church because it was full of hypocrites. I told him that’s like saying you won’t go to see the doctor because his office is full of sick people.

Beautiful! Now the question is - do we see these spiritual patients getting better? I.e., how effective is this doctor’s office. Mileage may vary from local church to local church.

God bless you,
paul

 

[greggy53]

From my Protestant point of view, we all have the authority of the disciples.

I think that you and I are getting to the “meat” of the issue. When you look at the pertinent scriptures, the ones where Jesus is bestowing the authority and the commission he is speaking directly to the disciples-not everyone. Here is just one example.

“When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.”

It’s good talking to you. I’m starting to flush out the differences. I guess it’s the concept of exclusive authority that makes me uncomfortable. That is, only clergy members of the Roman Catholic Church has the authority to do things in God’s name. It’s the exclusiveness… I.e., I don’t have the authority to read the Bible and pray and interpret scripture.

No one in the Church has ever taught that you and I as individuals don’t have any authority. We are sons of God, and the Holy spirit is with us as such. But as a family, and his “lambs” in obedience we submit to that rule of order that Jesus established through the disciples and continuance of His Church. St Peter had this to say about interpretations of scripture:

2nd Peter 1:19 “And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.”

Each of us as individuals have the right as children of God to petition him, and he is faithful to us. Mother church has always encouraged us to read the scriptures, for it (the Church) knows the blessings that come from it to us. As far as the correct interpretations of prophesies, and the doctrines established in scripture only the Church with the guidance of the Holy Spirit can give us the right answers. The authority is by no means exclusive, but just as there is a leader in each family there is also a leader at the head of God’s Church.

Beautiful! Now the question is - do we see these spiritual patients getting better? I.e., how effective is this doctor’s office. Mileage may vary from local church to local church.God bless you,paul

I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. The doctor is Jesus of course. I believe The doctor has one office, one Church.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Hi Tom

Hi, Richard,
Basically, the evidence we have, at least as I understand it, is that Paul probably worshiped every day. He worshiped on the Sabbath - no doubt about that! But, I think that too much is being placed on what is honestly ambibuous evidence.

So, you are saying that the fact that altho Paul repeatedly preached on the Sabbath day and altho he had ample opportunity never once mentioned that the Sabbath had been changed by Peter to Sunday. And never seemed to attempt to change his day of preaching to Sunday. You call this ambiguous evidence.

For me the heart of the matter is that Christ gave Peter the authority to change anything he chose to change - and this would be under the direction of the Holy Spirit (Matt 16). So, the real issue is that Peter, as leader of the Catholic Church, made the change - and that was that.

So you are saying that Peter made the change from the Sabbath to Sunday. This is a pretty major change this must be well documented. I don’t recall it being in the bible could you direct me to that documentation?

Also, This was posted by another Catholic in a discussion I had with him on another thread. He said it was from the CC’s definition of papal infallability.

1. For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles. Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.

The changing of one of God’s laws to me seems to be a major change and definitely a new doctrine. How would you reconcile your statement above with this official church statement?

 

[Javl]

What does that mean “to fullfill”. It certainly does not mean to do away with, because the whole quote in Matt5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. What Jesus means here is that He is the only one that fullfilled the requirements of the law perfectly. In other words He kept the law perfectly.

Ex. 19:5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

In Ex.19:8 We see the people saying "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do"
Well we know they failed and in order for God’s plan of salvation to work God had to have His covenant fullfilled. So Heb.8:7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The them here refered to is specifically the Mosaic Jews and generally all of mankind and the fault found with them was/is sin. Rom.3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; The difference between the old and the new covenant is not the wording of the covenant (the ten commandments). That’s the same. The difference is in who the covenant is with. The old with the people, who make no provision for the Spirit of God to help them “All that the LORD hath spoken we will do” The new with one man, the Son of God. Who abides eternally with the Father Jn 17:22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So the law has not been done away with. As we see in Jer. 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

In the new covenant the law will be written on our minds and in our hearts by the Spirit of almighty God through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
1Jn:2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Well’ first of all there were two laws that Jesus quoted from the old testament. The first was Deu. 6:5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Lev. 19: 18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

These two laws are a sumery of the decalogue.

You have this backwards javl SDA keep the seventh day sabbath of God. It is the CC that has thought to change times and laws. Dan. 7:25

Well as I have shown Saturday is the seventh day Sabbath and God blessed and sanctified the seventh day Sabbath and the CC has trampled on God’s blessing by trying to usurp God’s authority and ignoring that blessing. I would say that certainly is an effrontery to God.

May I ask, before God created, were the days named Sunday, Monday Tuesday, etc. Or did God name them? Was that a week? Did one day equal 24 hours? Although God said to rest on the Sabbath, how do we know that He meant Saturday?

It is we humans who decided to name the days of the week. It is we humans who decided that Saturday was to be the Sabbath, not God. For all we know the Sabbath could be any day of the week. Just because the Jews call Saturday the Sabbath, does not make it so. The Sabbath is a human decision. God said to rest on the seventh day of your work. If my work begins on a Tuesday, does that mean I still have to rest on Saturday even though I have not worked seven days?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Catdan]

It is we humans who decided to name the days of the week. It is we humans who decided that Saturday was to be the Sabbath, not God. For all we know the Sabbath could be any day of the week. Just because the Jews call Saturday the Sabbath, does not make it so. The Sabbath is a human decision. God said to rest on the seventh day of your work. If my work begins on a Tuesday, does that mean I still have to rest on Saturday even though I have not worked seven days?

Great question!!! So why do the CC worship on the1st day of the week if that’s Sunday???

 

[Richard_Kastner]

May I ask, before God created, were the days named Sunday, Monday Tuesday, etc. Or did God name them? Was that a week? Did one day equal 24 hours? Although God said to rest on the Sabbath, how do we know that He meant Saturday?

This is a joke right? You didn’t read my previous posts? Let me post again.
Not true,
Gen.2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

**Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: **

Luke 23:53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

**In Gen.2:3 we see the Lord blessing and sanctifying the seventh day.

In Ex.20:10 we see that the seventh day is the Sabbath day.

And in Luke 23:53-56 we see that the Sabbath day lies between the Preperation day, the day Jesus was taken down from the cross or Friday and the first day or Sunday. That would make the Sabbath Saturday. Notice that the women left the body because they rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Apparently they didn’t think the day was changed. **

It is we humans who decided to name the days of the week. It is we humans who decided that Saturday was to be the Sabbath, not God. For all we know the Sabbath could be any day of the week. Just because the Jews call Saturday the Sabbath, does not make it so. The Sabbath is a human decision. God said to rest on the seventh day of your work. If my work begins on a Tuesday, does that mean I still have to rest on Saturday even though I have not worked seven days?

Humans named the days of the week after gods. God did not name the days of the week He just went by numbers, but it is God who called the seventh day His Sabath day. There is no reason for us to keep the seventh day Sabbath except one and that is because God said so.

**Exodus 20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. **
You have to remember that these commandments are considered so sacred by God that He did not trust man with them. They are the only words in the bible that are not inspired. They didn’t have to be because God Himself spoke them with His own mouth and He wrote them with His own finger on stone to signify their permanance
You cannot keep the Sabbath on any other day than Saturday. That would be like trying to keep Monday on Friday.

One other thing that needs to be pointed out. Atltho the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 It does not belong to man. It is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Gen2:3 says And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Did God need to rest? No of coarse He didn’t. It says He blessed and sanctified the seventh day by resting. In other words it was an example to the man and woman that He had just created the previous day. The Sabbath rest means more than just not doing work.

Isaiah 58:13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

It means to take one day out of your week and give it totally and completely to God. And not just any day, but His day. Javl my suggestion would be for you to stop trying to justify disobedience to Gods law and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: and then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD;
You do want to delight yourself in the Lord, don’t you?

 

[Javl]

This is a joke right? You didn’t read my previous posts? Let me post again.
Not true,
Gen.2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

**Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: **

Luke 23:53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

**In Gen.2:3 we see the Lord blessing and sanctifying the seventh day.

In Ex.20:10 we see that the seventh day is the Sabbath day.

And in Luke 23:53-56 we see that the Sabbath day lies between the Preperation day, the day Jesus was taken down from the cross or Friday and the first day or Sunday. That would make the Sabbath Saturday. Notice that the women left the body because they rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Apparently they didn’t think the day was changed. **

Humans named the days of the week after gods. God did not name the days of the week He just went by numbers, but it is God who called the seventh day His Sabath day. There is no reason for us to keep the seventh day Sabbath except one and that is because God said so.

**Exodus 20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. **
You have to remember that these commandments are considered so sacred by God that He did not trust man with them. They are the only words in the bible that are not inspired. They didn’t have to be because God Himself spoke them with His own mouth and He wrote them with His own finger on stone to signify their permanance
You cannot keep the Sabbath on any other day than Saturday. That would be like trying to keep Monday on Friday.

One other thing that needs to be pointed out. Atltho the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 It does not belong to man. It is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Gen2:3 says And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Did God need to rest? No of coarse He didn’t. It says He blessed and sanctified the seventh day by resting. In other words it was an example to the man and woman that He had just created the previous day. The Sabbath rest means more than just not doing work.

Isaiah 58:13If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

It means to take one day out of your week and give it totally and completely to God. And not just any day, but His day. Javl my suggestion would be for you to stop trying to justify disobedience to Gods law and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: and then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD;
You do want to delight yourself in the Lord, don’t you?

It is you who are trying to justify your position. We do take one day out of the week and give it totally and completely to God. The SDA has decided that it is on a Saturday. We, with God’s authority ( Jesus, Mt 16:19 ), have chosen Sunday, which is the day of His resurrection. We commemorate and honor that event and worship Him on that day. We ARE NOT in disobedience.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Richard,

Your question goes to the heart of the matter from several aspects. Let me identify a couple…

So, you are saying that the fact that altho Paul repeatedly preached on the Sabbath day and altho he had ample opportunity never once mentioned that the Sabbath had been changed by Peter to Sunday. And never seemed to attempt to change his day of preaching to Sunday. You call this ambiguous evidence.

It is ambiguous because it can go any way you want it to go. He spoke to the Jews on the Sabbath - he probably worshiped with them, too. This does not mean he was still waiting for the Messiah as they apparently were. Just because he incorporated something into his teaching ministry does not mean that it exclueded anything else.

Paul was also a tent-maker. Does this mean that he only met with others in this skilled trade? No. Does it mean he was partial to tent makers - well…there is no evidence he was - but, so what? Any fact can be made to stand alone - but, it does not mean it can be logically linked to any other fact or opinion we happen to offer.

So you are saying that Peter made the change from the Sabbath to Sunday. This is a pretty major change this must be well documented. I don’t recall it being in the bible could you direct me to that documentation?

You know at the Council of Jerusalem, Peter, acting under the direction of the Holy Spirit, CHANGED the law concerning circumcision. This law was directly given by God. There is all kinds of references to the role of circumcision in the OT. There was a effort to keep this - but, God said - through His Church - that this was no longer necessary. Change happens as an unfolding of God’s eternal plan. So, why would the Sabbath be any different?

God bless

 

[greggy53]

Great question!!! So why do the CC worship on the1st day of the week if that’s Sunday???

Because it’s the day our Lord rose from the dead. Sunday represents the first day of creation in the OT, and the new day of creation in the NT. All Christian denominations agree on very little, but they all agree on Sunday as the day of worship. Your sect is the only one that claims to be Christian and yet does not worship on the same day.