Seventh Day Adventists

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Thank you SDA girl for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I was really feeling depressed about being misuderstood. I have no hatred of anyone. I would like to discuss doctrine but to do so in a way that is not offensive.

The thought was brought up about not understanding the Great Controversy from some readers on the thread. I said that you would have to understand some things about the Reformation first before The Great Controversy would make sense (because it was written for Protestants and not Catholics). This is why I brought up Daniel 7. The interpretation is what all the Reformers had in common. If you don’t want to know about it then fine. I thought I would offer what the Reformers thought of Daniel 7. Again, I don’t want to offend anyone or think that I hate anyone, but if you are interested I will tell you. It seems as thought at least some of you are so I will. Unfortunetly I can’t right now because I am at work right now but I will tonight - with references and all.

Until then, God Bless.
 
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SDAgirl:
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Hi! I obviously am Adventist and I just had a couple things to say. I have been reading your threads for quite a while and I just had a few comments. I have been a member of the church since I was 9 and I have attended church regularly since. I have also been to seminars and evangelistic meetings. And I have NEVER heard ANY Adventist say that they dislike, hate, or pity Catholics. The conversations I have been a part of have always been those of love and peace. This is not a religion to be thought of as “the ones that hate us”.
We do believe that the church in the higher levels does have some apostacies, but to the everyday Catholic who does not bear the weight of thousands upon thousands of souls on their head; they have only their own and will be judged as such.
There is no TRUE Adventist who would say that Catholics are not making it to paradise. For he has many sheep, not all of one fold. AMEN? I hope that you can understand the Illuminator??'s objective in here is not to upset you, but to direct you to some of the Catholic quotes that many do not know about. In a hope of either causing you to ask questions, or to make you stronger in your faith. But as anyone entering a “room” of those who have different ideas than you, the road to going on the defensive, is short!
Well thats my 2 cents. I just want you to know that I read the section on Adventism and the quotes are accurate. Though taken out of context and not presented in their paragraphs, those are our core beleifs. But to make it sound like we hate you or do not consider you family in Jesus, is wrong. Thanks for reading
I have heard that the SDA’s are very prayerful people. Welcome to the forum my sister in Christ! 👋
 
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Mickey:
I have heard that the SDA’s are very prayerful people. Welcome to the forum my sister in Christ! 👋
Thank you. It is quite frustrating in some of these rooms to discuss things like communion, and then be baraged with attacks. i always try to be polite even when differences occur. After all, I am Adventist on a Catholic site, and I am interested in what Catholics think of us and why. Thats my main reason for being here.
 
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SDAgirl:
Thank you. It is quite frustrating in some of these rooms to discuss things like communion, and then be baraged with attacks. i always try to be polite even when differences occur. After all, I am Adventist on a Catholic site, and I am interested in what Catholics think of us and why. Thats my main reason for being here.
Doctrinal differences are a fact of life. I do believe there is one truth and so you will often see me defending the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I read Scriptures and study Sacred Tradition, Magisterial teaching, and Church history, etc. I am convinced that the fullness of truth is found within the Catholic Church. I also believe that all Christians are brothers and sisters in Christ and the Holy Spirit will guide us. I cannot force someone to understand and accept the teachings of the Church. God works on his own time. 🙂

I was told by a holy Catholic monk, (who has since passed away), that he once met a group of people from the SDA church. He told me that they were charitable, kind, and prayerful. I respect that. 🙂
 
Maybe you don’t know what the 9 signs are? Why don’t you want to talk about it?
I’ll be glad to talk about it.

#1-Arose from the ruins of the Roman Empire
#2-Received its ruling power and authority from the dragon (Satan, pagan Rome)
#3-World wide power
#4-Rule of 42 prophetic months (1260 yrs.)
#5-The deadly wound that healed
#6-Speaks blasphemy (mortals being able to forgive sins)
#7-His name is (or adds up to ) 666
#8-will be worshiped
#9-make war with the saints

That is how I’ve read it. I don’t agree with it one bit, but I’m not ignorant of it.
The Roman Catholic Church has traditionally suppressed, opposed, and forbidden the open use of the Bible. It was first officially forbidden to the people and placed on the index of Forbidden Books List by the Council of Valencia in 1229 A.D.
Well, seeing what trouble unguided reading of the Bible has caused, I can see their point. But, you misunderstand the “why” part of it. We want people to know the Scriptures, medieval Catholics lived and breathed Scripture because they were taught by men and women who devoted much of their time to reading Scripture, and painstakingly handwritting it. The stain glass windows of our Cathedrals and other art works are full of Biblical stories.

However, when someone comes along and thinks they know better than the Church, better than the Fathers, and that their private interpretation “proves” the Church wrong it is a problem. “How can I understand unless someone explains it to me?” as the Ethiopian eunuch said.
The Council of Trent (1545-63 A.D.) also prohibited its use and pronounced a curse upon anyone who would dare oppose this decree.
From the Fourth Session of the Council of Trent, Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures- history.hanover.edu/texts/trent.htm

I don’t see one part of the Decrees and Canons of the Council of Trent that “prohibited its (Bible) use and pronounced a curse”.
Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,–in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,–whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,–hath held and doth hold; or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers; even though such interpretations were never (intended) to be at any time published. Contraveners shall be made known by their Ordinaries, and be punished with the penalties by law established.
Many popes have issued decrees forbidding Bible reading in the common language of the people, condemning Bible societies and banning its possession and translation under penalty of mortal sin and death.
I suggest you read “Where We Got the Bible” by Henry Graham.
The Roman Catholic Church has openly burned Bibles and those who translated it or promoted its study, reading, and use (John Hus, 1415 A.D.; William Tyndale, 1536 A.D.)
Yes we did-heretical bibles. We freely burned heretical bibles because they spread error to the Faithful. However, we also got an English translation (the Douay-Rheims version) out before the KJV of 1611.

users.binary.net/polycarp/burning.html
First of all, if you knew anything about revelation, it predicts that an image of the 4th beast would be set up. NOT THE FOURTH BEAST ITSELF. So , the pope as president, even though you meant it in gest shows how really far off you are
I realize that, I was actually making a parody with the accusations against Al Smith (a Catholic) campaigning for pres. back in the day. I do apologize if you took offense at my sarcasm, so I’ll stick to the conversation at hand.
 
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Mickey:
Doctrinal differences are a fact of life. I do believe there is one truth and so you will often see me defending the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I read Scriptures and study Sacred Tradition, Magisterial teaching, and Church history, etc. I am convinced that the fullness of truth is found within the Catholic Church. I also believe that all Christians are brothers and sisters in Christ and the Holy Spirit will guide us. I cannot force someone to understand and accept the teachings of the Church. God works on his own time. 🙂

I was told by a holy Catholic monk, (who has since passed away), that he once met a group of people from the SDA church. He told me that they were charitable, kind, and prayerful. I respect that. 🙂
Well can you come over to the PROPAGANDA one a help me out? I’m getting a little defensive all though I’m trying not to. It’s just frustrating to be labeled thats all. I’m sure you feel the same way when in a room with Protestants.
 
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SDAgirl:
Well can you come over to the PROPAGANDA one a help me out? I’m getting a little defensive all though I’m trying not to. It’s just frustrating to be labeled thats all. I’m sure you feel the same way when in a room with Protestants.
👍
 
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SDAgirl:
Well can you come over to the PROPAGANDA one a help me out? I’m getting a little defensive all though I’m trying not to. It’s just frustrating to be labeled thats all. I’m sure you feel the same way when in a room with Protestants.
Why don’t we focus on what is really important? WE BOTH, SDA and Catholics, believe there is only one way to salvation … through Christ. Other than that, noting else really matters. Though I do have to say, that most SDA’s are better versed in the bible than a lot of Catholics I know.
 
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SDAgirl:
Thank you. It is quite frustrating in some of these rooms to discuss things like communion, and then be baraged with attacks. i always try to be polite even when differences occur. After all, I am Adventist on a Catholic site, and I am interested in what Catholics think of us and why. Thats my main reason for being here.
I have to be honest, the Adventist religion is not going to get any level of respect from me. A lot of the religion is based on further tearing apart Christs Church. I can love the people and hold thier beliefs in utter contempt. The majority of the adventist religion is simply an attack on our beliefs, how could you honestly expect us as Catholics to be cordial about being called the whore of babylon, and the Pope is the anti-Christ? It’s not logical to think we could think like that.

When someone says hurtful things about your beliefs, you’ll be hurt by it, and I am hurt by Adventist, Baptist, and Mormon teachings that rail against us. I wear my heart on my sleeve that will never change.
 
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SDAgirl:
Thank you. It is quite frustrating in some of these rooms to discuss things like communion, and then be baraged with attacks. i always try to be polite even when differences occur. After all, I am Adventist on a Catholic site, and I am interested in what Catholics think of us and why. Thats my main reason for being here.
Tell me about it. Most of the people on this site are very polite and understanding. However, there are some that can be sarcastic (unfortunetly they are the vocal minority). Some confuse explaining what Adventist think as “hate” So it’s impossible to have a normal conversation under those circumstances with those few people. But for the rest of you, thank you for the conversation and I’ll work on Daniel 7 tonight - only because some of you asked for insight on The Great Controversy.

Thanks.
 
SDAgirl and Illuminator,

I have some questions for you. This has bothered me about the SDA church and perhaps you can clarify for me.

I have read the book The Great Controversy. In the first couple of chapters Ellen G White writes some things about the Catholic Church that are blantant lies. (Sorry to sound harsh here but I don’t know how else to describe them.) I will give you just two examples: 1. she accuses the Church of changing the ten commandments in order to promote idoltry. If you look in any Catholic Bible you will see this is not true. 2. She defines infallibility of the Pope as the pope having declared he never can make a mistake. Again her presentation is a total misinterpretation of the doctrine of infallibility with regards to faith and morals. The examples she then gives are then not examples of infallible situations. There are many other instances of clear misrepresentations of the Catholic Church. These are just some examples.

So my Questions to you are: How can someone be considered a prophet when her books contain many things that can quite easily be shown to be wrong? (I have her whole collection of books) There are not just a few things but a lot of things wrong in the books. I just cannot understand how she could be considered a prophet.

Secondly, why does the SDA church continue to allow these books to be published? The only reason that I could think of that they might continue is that they actually believe these falsehoods.

Thank you for your consideration.
Annette
 
Good Evening Everyone,

I would like to ask several additional questions about core SDA beliefs. If I have misinterpreted them, please let me know. I know that Catholics and SDAs share many core beliefs but I am asking questons on where our beliefs differ in order to better understand the SDA perspective.
  1. Ellen White: I have read that SDA members believe that White`s writings are considered to be inspired, in the same way that the Bible is inspired by God. However, I have heard that in recent years, some SDA members no longer believe this, while other members consider it a core SDA belief. Is this true? For those SDA members who consider her writings not inspired, do they regard her as a false prophet?
  2. Question regarding the Sabbath: From what I have read on this forum, other websites, and books, SDAs argue that the Church had no authority to change the commandment regarding the Sabbath.( Exodus 20: 8-11. ) Is this a correct assessment? On the other hand, Catholics believe that since Christ established the Catholic Church and granted authority to “bind and loose” (Matthew 18:18) and teach with his authority(Luke 10: 16, Matthew 28: 18-20), the Church does have that authority.
Moreover, in the first several decades after the death and Ressurection of Christ, the Church rapidly shifted the practive of observing the Sabbath on Sunday, the day Christ rose from the dead. (John 20:1). From what I have read, this shift was made for two reasons. First, the early Christians recognized their weekly, communal celebrations of the Mass, was more appropriately carried out on Sunday. The second reason was to differentiate themselves from the Jews beginning with an immediate abandonment of Judaisms system of animal sacrifices, the gradual abandonment of circumcision, and Jewish ceremonial ritutals and dietary restrictions imposed by the Law of Moses, observance of Passover, and other Jewish feats. (Deut.12:15-18, 14: 3-21, Col. 2: 16-23). Moreover, since Jesus has authority over the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8, and Jesus gave this Authority to HIs Apostles, and his Church, I am not sure why SDAs think Catholics are not following the commandment to keep the sabbath holy; in other words since Catholics celebrate Sunday as the Lords Day, they are still following the commandment. But I know SDAs do not agree with this, but I am not sure what their reason is? Could you help clarify this for me? On this forum, and via other venues, some SDAs have told me, it is unbiblical of Catholics to celebrate Sunday as the Lord`s Day, rather than on Saturday, but to me, the following Scripture supports celebrating it on Sunday. Matthew 10:40, Matthew 16:19, Matthew 18: 18-20, Matthew 28: 1-6, Luke 10:16, Romans 8: 18-25, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 2 Corinthians 5; 1-5, Colossians 1:1-15, 2:16-22.

I am Catholic and know Catholics still keep the commandment to celebrate the Sabbath by keeping Sunday as the Lord`s Day, due to the Scripture cited above, but am trying to understand the SDA perspective. If I offended anyone iwth poor wording I apologize, but my questions are sincere. I have several additional questions but will post them separately.
 
I have often been offended by sda’s. At their amazing falsehoods (facts) seminars I have been lied too and my faith has been vilified. After that I added them to the list of cults I warned my parishioners against. If sda’s want to change the first thing they need to do is dump amazing ‘facts’.
 
I have several additional questions on SDA beliefs but did not want to put them all in one post. So here is my second post with some questions. There will be more to follow in a separate post.
  1. I read that SDAs do not believe the Catholic teaching that the soul will live for eternity, but rather SDAs claim that God temporarily suspends the existence of the soul at death, and ressurects it at the last judgement and then completely and permanently “annihilates” it, in the case of those who are condemned. Is this true? If so, why do SDAs believe this? Catholics use the following Bibllical evidence to show that the soul is not annihilated but is destined to live for eternity, either with God in heaven, or separated forever in hell. As a result, I am not sure why SDAs would believe something contrary to the following Scripture, if they believe in “Sola Scripture” (the Bible alone).
Genesis: 1: 27. “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.”

Matthew 10: 28 “And do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10: 39 “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” (One who denies Jesus in order to save ones earthly life will be condemned to everlasting destruction; loss of earthly life for Jesuss sake will be rewarded by everlasting life in the kingdom).

Revelation 6: 9-10. “When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they havd borne; they cried out with a loud voice, `O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

The following Scripture also support the Catholic viewpoint.1 Samuel 28, Matthew 17: 1-8, and Luke 16.

If I am misunderstanding SDA beliefs on this, could you let me know. If my understanding of the SDA is belief is correct, doesn`t the above Scripture conflict with the SDA belief?
 
Wow, so many good questions. I was going to write tonight about Daniel 7 but I will not have enough time. Tommorow I hope.

There have been several qood questions, particularly from Maris 1212 and amills on beleifs of the SDA church.

I want to be as honest as I can so I will discuss one of your questions at a time since they require a rigorous discussion to be fair to you.

First, however, I must simply tell you that this exercise is to tell you why SDA’s believe what they do. I am not condeming you. Please do not be offended. Please also realize that becuase another belief teaches differently from yourself doesn’t mean that they hate you or that they want to hurt you etc.

With that lets begin: Here is what you asked:
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Maria1212:
  1. I read that SDAs do not believe the Catholic teaching that the soul will live for eternity, but rather SDAs claim that God temporarily suspends the existence of the soul at death, and ressurects it at the last judgement and then completely and permanently “annihilates” it, in the case of those who are condemned. Is this true? If so, why do SDAs believe this? Catholics use the following Bibllical evidence to show that the soul is not annihilated but is destined to live for eternity, either with God in heaven, or separated forever in hell. As a result, I am not sure why SDAs would believe something contrary to the following Scripture, if they believe in “Sola Scripture” (the Bible alone).
Genesis: 1: 27. “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.”

Matthew 10: 28 “And do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10: 39 “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” (One who denies Jesus in order to save ones earthly life will be condemned to everlasting destruction; loss of earthly life for Jesuss sake will be rewarded by everlasting life in the kingdom).

Revelation 6: 9-10. “When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they havd borne; they cried out with a loud voice, `O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

The following Scripture also support the Catholic viewpoint.1 Samuel 28, Matthew 17: 1-8, and Luke 16.

If I am misunderstanding SDA beliefs on this, could you let me know. If my understanding of the SDA is belief is correct, doesn`t the above Scripture conflict with the SDA belief?
First let me tell you what the official belief is of the SDA church and then I will tell you why this is in harmony with the Biblical teaching.

taken from adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
  1. The Nature of Man:
    Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though created free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:7; Ps. 8:4-8; Acts 17:24-28; Gen. 3; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12-17; 2 Cor. 5:19, 20; Ps. 51:10; 1 John 4:7, 8, 11, 20; Gen. 2:15.)
  2. Death and Resurrection:
    The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)
I will give the Biblical proofs for this in the next post.
 
Illuminator wrote:
First of all, I am against abortions in any sense unless the mother’s life is in danger (this is usually a rare occurance but it does happen). There is president in the Bible for the Mother’s life above the unborn fetus’ life:
SDA Church doctrine allows for abortions.
They teach error.
  1. The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman’s life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.
 
On the topic of the state of the dead:

Point #1) Life and death are contrasted. In death there is no consciousness, knowledge, emotion or activity which are a part of life.

TEXT: Eccl. 9:5:5, 6, 10
009:005 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
009:006 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
009:007 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
009:008 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
009:009 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
009:010 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for **there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. **

Point #2) The cessation of all thought processes occurs at the moment of death.

Psalms: 146:3,4
146:003 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
146:004 **His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. **
Point #3) Those who are dead are unaware of events transpiring on earth even those effecting family and friends

Job 14:21
014:021 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

Point #4) The fact that the dead praise not the Lord is indicative that they are not in heaven in a conscious state.

Psalms 115:17
115:017 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Point #5) IN death there is no communion even with God.

Psalms 6:5
006:005 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Point #6) The biological process of death is the same for man and animals

Eccl 3:19-21
003:019 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
003:020 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
003:021 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Point #7) Peter made a most interesting observation regarding David. A thousand years after the death of the Patriarch he was still in his tomb and had not as yet ascended to heaven.

Acts 2:29,34
002:029 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the **patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. **
002:030 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
002:031 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
002:032 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
002:033 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
002:034 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

cont next page
 
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