Seventh-day Sabbath Questions And Answers

[Richard_Kastner]

Protestant101, the Sabbath was a sign to Israel, there is nothing in scripture which says that the Sabbath is a sign of anything to Christians. Our Signs of Christ’s authority and presence with us are the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist and Holy Orders.

Actually, there is scipture that says the sabbath is a sign to Christians. Heb24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Ex.31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

This begs the question just who are the children of Israel
Heb.9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:This shows us there are two Israels.

Heb.8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (ministry of death)
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (emphasis mine)

These verses show that these two Israels correspond to the Israel of the flesh and the Israel of the Spirit. The law is not done away with but is kept because we love Jesus. Jn.14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. It is through Him that the law is written in our minds and on our hearts. Heb10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

The Sabbath will be kept in the new Jerusalem Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Gods perpetual covenant will be kept for all eternity by God’s remnant church, spiritual Israel, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev.12:17
Yours in Christ Richard

 

[mozart-250]

The “Glaring Problems” you say that exist for Sabbath, would also exist for Sunday. You haven’t explained a single one of them!!

The difference being of course that for us we are not terribly hung up on the Sabbath either way. We don’t even have a problem with y’all worshiping on Saturday except that you seem to feel that we have fallen into apostasy by worshiping on Sunday.

Since are not hung up with the Adventists worshiping on Saturday (even though they seem to be quite obsesssed with us worshiping on Sunday), we are not hung up with just how the Innuit people decide to manage their unique circumstance in regards to their day.

 

[St_Violet]

Richard Kastner, you are just repeating yourself and ignoring the statements that conflicts with yours. I hope you take the time to respond to them.

 

[St_Violet]

Ever since Day light savings I noticed that the local SDA churches here have changed the time sabbath offically begins. I really do not think the Catholic Church requires everyone to begin to rest and go to church services at a certain limited time simply because of the Fact the church holds mass everyday, morning, aftertoons and evenings. The SDA church in the other hand expects that everything begins to rest around 4 or 5 pm friday and go to church the next morning, they do not have mass throughout the week like the Catholic Church does because they only limit their time of rest in one single day which changes because of day light savings.

The Artic debate does make sense to me because the SDA are very strict about when the Sabbath begins and ends, while the Catholic Church does encourage us to come together to take communion on the Lord’s Day, They do not limited it on just sundays.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Ever since Day light savings I noticed that the local SDA churches here have changed the time sabbath offically begins. I really do not think the Catholic Church requires everyone to begin to rest and go to church services at a certain limited time simply because of the Fact the church holds mass everyday, morning, aftertoons and evenings. The SDA church in the other hand expects that everything begins to rest around 4 or 5 pm friday and go to church the next morning, they do not have mass throughout the week like the Catholic Church does because they only limit their time of rest in one single day which changes because of day light savings.

The Artic debate does make sense to me because the SDA are very strict about when the Sabbath begins and ends, while the Catholic Church does encourage us to come together to take communion on the Lord’s Day, They do not limited it on just sundays.

Sabbath begins at sundown friday and ends sundown Saturday because thats how the bible tells us how to measure a day.
Gen.1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

As for this arctic thing I beleive it would be acceptable to use the clock for your Sabbath measurement.
Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Delraek]

If worshipping God on Sundays is such a huge problem, why didn’t any of the early church fathers say so? And none of the protestant reformers mentioned it… the only logical answer is because the apostles started this “tradition” of worshipping on the Lord’s Day (Sunday) and no one felt any need to question it. I hardly think God would have waited over 1800 years to set people straight, especially since he promised that the “gates of Hades would not prevail against it (My church)”. Mt 16

 

[Protestant101]

If worshipping God on Sundays is such a huge problem, why didn’t any of the early church fathers say so? And none of the protestant reformers mentioned it… the only logical answer is because the apostles started this “tradition” of worshipping on the Lord’s Day (Sunday) and no one felt any need to question it. I hardly think God would have waited over 1800 years to set people straight, especially since he promised that the “gates of Hades would not prevail against it (My church)”. Mt 16

God often waits for a while to reveal truths which He wants us to hear; but knows we are not ready for yet…

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

The “Early Church Fathers” meaning the first Catholics; (not the true early church), did not mention this as a problem because they couldn’t. Most Catholic theologians and pioneers would readily admit that the change to Sunday is not stated in the Bible. They would tell you that this change was done solely by the “authority” of the Catholic Church. Now; in order for any of the Catholic Church Fathers to admit there is a problem with “Sunday observance;” the first thing they would have to do is to deny their own church’s “authority!”

Do Catholics Observe The Sabbath?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=175078
Re: Do Catholics observe the Sabbath?​

Catholics do not observe the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week (Saturday) and is observed by Jews and by some Christian groups who have rejected the Catholic understanding that Christians no longer observe the Sabbath (e.g., Seventh-Day Adventists).

From the earliest times, Catholics have observed Sunday as the Lord’s Day, which is “expressly distinguished” from the Jewish Sabbath (CCC 2175). Sabbath was the memorial of creation and God’s rest on the seventh day; Sunday commemorates the new creation instituted by Christ’s Resurrection on the first day of the week. While early Christians celebrated both Sabbath and Sunday – mainly because the early Church included a significant number of Jews who had converted to Christianity – as the Church became predominantly Gentile, the observance of the Sabbath by Christians eventually ceased.

 

[Delraek]

God often waits for a while to reveal truths which He wants us to hear; but knows we are not ready for yet…!

Yeah, the early Christians would have had a real tough time with this “truth”! I can see why God would want to hold this one back for 1800 years…

The “Early Church Fathers” meaning the first Catholics; (not the true early church), did not mention this as a problem because they couldn’t. Most Catholic theologians and pioneers would readily admit that the change to Sunday is not stated in the Bible. They would tell you that this change was done solely by the “authority” of the Catholic Church. Now; in order for any of the Catholic Church Fathers to admit there is a problem with “Sunday observance;” the first thing they would have to do is to deny their own church’s “authority!”

All the Early Church Fathers were Catholic because the Christian church was Catholic! The change was done solely by the “authority” of the Catholic Church - the Apostles. Peter was the first “head” of the Church, you know…

By the way, how can you KNOW what the “true early church” taught if you don’t have any documents from the late first century and the second century? (I’m assuming you deny all the writings of the ECFs.) The Sacred Scriptures don’t exactly contain every little detail of the celebration on the Lord’s Day (which, of course, is why Catholics also refer to the oral Apostolic Tradition.)

 

[Joel1984]

But, if no one knows when Sabbath really begins in the Artic; they also won’t know when Sunday begins. (even if you don’t go by sunset). And why would God tell people who had no sunset, to go by sunset? Do you mean to tell me there was no Artic in the beginning, on that first Sabbath; and that maybe God didn’t know what he was doing? You are twisting one text out of context from Lev., and making it a pre-text. This is one of the reasons I have stated that there is no problem with keeping the Sabbath in the Artic or anywhere else; except for the problems you are creating. God was particular, in fact, about how people kept the Sabbath; but He was never legalistic like this, and he was always practical and realistic about it. God and His Word have created no problem with Sabbath keeping - anywhere in the world. It is only people who do that.

I am taking aback by the absurity of your post.

“But, if no one knows when Sabbath really begins in the Artic; they also won’t know when Sunday begins. (even if you don’t go by sunset).”

Protestant101 in today’s modern world we have something called clocks. And since we start our days by time and not sunset the clock on the wall will do just fine. But for your postion it won’t do just fine as your fellow sabbatarian Richard pointed out, the days in biblical times started at sunset. So you are in a real bind even though you pretend not to be phased. Also you are defying your prophet Ellen White.

“And why would God tell people who had no sunset, to go by sunset? Do you mean to tell me there was no Artic in the beginning, on that first Sabbath; and that maybe God didn’t know what he was doing?”

Show me in Exodus that God told anybody besides Isreal to keep sabbath. The simply fact is Protestant101 is that God did not give the Covenant to anybody else besides Isreal, so your premise is a fallacy.

*[Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage./I]

Did God bring the ammorites or the cannonites out of the land of Egypt Protestant101?

*[Deuteronomy 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day./I]

There are many passages along those lines. Isreal was God’s choosen people and gave them his law and covenant…nobody else.

Yes there was an artic in the beginning but it wasn’t populated. Also even if it were what makes you think that anyone up there kept sabbath? Also you must first prove that the Sabbath was given at the beginning. You haven’t touched my previous posts where I went through Gen2:2,3. The Sabbath is first mentioned in Ex16. The idea that people in the artic kept sabbath in the beginning is an unbelivable assertion. You cannot even show us where the heathen nations in the OT kept sabbath.

You have failed to even touch Lev23:32 or anything in my previous posts. I’m use to this. SDA’s thinking their going to straiten a group of people out on the sabbath question. Once they’ve been refuted they start to back off. I’m goin to re-post what I covered before Protestant101 and I’d like to see you take a stab at it. I exegeted some of the proof texts I kept seeing you use and abuse over and over on this thread.

Joel Sexton**

 

[Joel1984]

Protestant101

Why do you ignore the real issues? Please go back to to part 11 on this thread and see my first three posts. Please if you can make a rebuttal to my comments on some of your favorite proof texts. It’s obvious you cannot but please try.

Joel Sexton

 

[St_Violet]

Sabbath begins at sundown friday and ends sundown Saturday because thats how the bible tells us how to measure a day.
Gen.1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

As for this arctic thing I beleive it would be acceptable to use the clock for your Sabbath measurement.
Yours in Christ Richard

but again, you ignore the entire matter, in the Artic, it is not uncommon for the sun to not appear for days. this issue just proves that the sabbath was for the jews in the Israel where they do indeed get sun.
you said it yourself, Sabbath begins at friday sundown til Saturday sundown and it is how the bible tells us how to measure a day which would be very difficult for those in the Art to do.

Now remember let’s also keep in mind that those in the east side of the U.S gets darkness earlier then those in the west. and with this idea, what good would a clock do in the Artic?

 

[St_Violet]

God often waits for a while to reveal truths which He wants us to hear; but knows we are not ready for yet…

The “Early Church Fathers” meaning the first Catholics; (not the true early church), did not mention this as a problem because they couldn’t. Most Catholic theologians and pioneers would readily admit that the change to Sunday is not stated in the Bible. They would tell you that this change was done solely by the “authority” of the Catholic Church. Now; in order for any of the Catholic Church Fathers to admit there is a problem with “Sunday observance;” the first thing they would have to do is to deny their own church’s “authority!”

well the early church fathers that had the honor to be taught under directly under the apostles were indeed catholics.

and your theories fail from the start. If the apostles were clear about the sabbath, and if they did keep the sabbath themselves, why would ignatius of antioch (the student of john the apostle) break tradition and teach us to keep sunday?

 

[Joel1984]

To Richard

Richard, you first stated that there is a text that shows the sabbath is a sign to christians. You then give Ex31:16,17 and try to show since there are two Isreal’s we must some how keep sabbath which was a sign to Isreal of the flesh. I had a hard time following your reasoning and biblical gymnastics but will try.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

This is a popular proof text used by Adventist’s to prove their postion. But other things were called a “sign” between God and Isreal which Adventist’s deny are binding on christians today.

Exodus 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD’s law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

The sign here is the passover which SDA’s say has been nailed to the cross with the other annual sabbaths.

Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

The context here shows the “sign” is the whole law, not just part. Listed are “statues, judgments…commandments” v 1,2.

*[Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes./I]

Here we have the “words” of the Lord which He spoke to Isreal that day as a “sign.” These words included again the whole law, not just part;

*[Deuteronomy 11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway./I]

So we see that God gave not just the sabbath but also passover, statues, judgments, precepts, and commandments as a sign between Him and the children of Isreal. To be inconsistent is to take one and not the other. It is clear from the text in question the sabbath as a sign is to the “CHILDREN OF ISREAL” not us Gentilles.

You also mentioned Jn14:15 Richard as if Jesus was speaking of the law. It should be noted that when a NT writer was speaking of the law he freely used the word. Also when we see law-nomos it means Torah, law of Moses…first five books of the OT (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy), not just the 10 commandments. I already covered Jn14:15 and the word “commandments” in a previous post so I will just copy and paste what I already stated.

*[John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments./I]

I see one SDA on an earlier post quote this verse saying something to the effect “what other commandments then the 10 would Jesus be refering to?”

1. First off, there were many more than just the “ten commandments” but there were 613 total in the Law of Moses.
2. Paul states to the church at Corinth “the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord”(1Cor14:37b)

3)Finally the context of Jn14 makes it clear as to what “commandments” Jesus was referring to.

*John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.[John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me./I]

In Jn14:15 Jesus said if ye love me keep MY commandments. V23,24 He says "If a man love me he will keep my WORDS…SAYINGS. The teachings of Jesus are His commandments. The greek word for commandments is entole-divine precept. If John wanted to refer to the law he could have easily done so as he had the word nomos which he uses many other times to refer to the law of Moses. Jesus is not jumping from His discourse with the disciples to bring them back to Sinia.

Another verse that is quoted by SDA’s along the same lines is 1Jn2:4.

*[1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him./I]

Context is also ignored here also by the SDA’s. Hence proof texting. V5 says the same as Jn14:15’s context.

*[1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him./I]

Commandments again are equivalent to His “word”.

*[Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD./I]

Notice the “new moon” Richard. Will we be keeping the new moon sabbaths in heaven? Do you keep them now?

Christian regards
Joel Sexton*******

 

[Maria1212]

Protestant,
Maybe your not very familiar with the Sabbath keeping issues in the artic. Think about it for a minute. The sun is not on 24 hour cycles in the Artic, therefore the Sabbath may last weeks or months. Explain to me how to keep the Sabbath from Sundown to Sundown when they may be 6 weeks apart. Not to mention that this would make the 7th day of the week on days other than Saturday.

Greetings,

I have been traveling so am behind on the threads. I skimmed forward but couldnt find the post where Protestant 101 replied to this post. (On how Adventists keep the sabbath in the Artic. Could someone let me know what post # his reply is in? This topic has come up time and time again on these threads and I have never seen an Adventist response. So I am looking forward to reading Protestant 101s reply.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

In the artic, the Sabbath may end on a Tuesday and start again on a Monday. There is no sundown to sundown daily and weekly cycle like we have in the lower parts of the world.

The Adventist church has made up various ways to get around this… none of which has any Biblical support, showing once again that Adventists betray their own “principles”, and that the Sabbath was not meant to be kept outside of the middle east.

The international date line is a MAN MADE day… therefore, two people are celebrating the Sabbath on two different days although they may be only 5 miles apart. Explain to my the Adventist answer for this…

You say that Adventists have answered this… please show me the official Adventist response on this.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

This is a popular proof text used by Adventist’s to prove their postion. But other things were called a “sign” between God and Isreal which Adventist’s deny are binding on christians today

Consider Deut. 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it. These verses both talk of the law.
However anyone can see that they are two differant laws
You will notice in Deut. 4:13 Moses is saying that God declared unto the children of Israel His covenant which He commanded you to perform, even ten commandments and in verse 14 the Lord commanded Moses to teach them statutes and judgements.
They are both called the law 2 Kings 21::8 Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.
This shows that there are two laws, one given by God directly to the people. The other given by God to Moses to give to the people.
In Daniel 9:11 we see " Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. Again we see the two laws only now we see that the law of Moses has a curse and an oath written in it. there is no curse written in the ten commandments
The biggest difference between them though is the way they were recorded and preserved. The ten commandments were literally written by God on tables of stone Deut. 4:13. Compare with Ex.31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Ok now the Mosaic law Deut. 9, 24-269 And Moses wrote this law
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
This book of statutes and judgments which Moses wrote in a book was placed in a pocket in the side of the ark. In contrast, the law written by God on tables of stone was placed inside of the ark of the covenant. Ex.25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
Finally, for this quote suffice it to say the cerimonial ordinances that Moses wrote in a book and placed in the side of the ark were …"for a witness against thee. The curses and judgements of this law spelled out penalties for transgression totally missing from the Ten Commandments. In Collossians we read the same discriptive language. Col.2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; So the cross of Christ put an end to these cerimonial laws which makes sense since they were all prophetic, pointing forward in time to Jesus and him fullfiling them. There is nothing in the Ten commendments that could be concidered “against us”.After he quotes the 10th commandment in Romans 7:7 Look at what Paul says in Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

*[Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD./I]

Notice the “new moon” Richard. Will we be keeping the new moon sabbaths in heaven? Do you keep them now?

Christian regards
Joel Sexton*

Come on , Joel you have the scripture above. They are not new moon sabbaths. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
What this is saying is just as the new heavens and the new earth which the Lord shall make, will last forever, so shall Gods commandment keeping people and His Sabbaths last forever. Think of it Joel we will get to woship our mighty God on the day He has blessed and sanctified FOREVER.
Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Protestant101]

Originally Posted by SDA2RC
Protestant,
In order to undersand the Bible one must necessarily look at the other writings of the same time period to understand phrases, and customs of the local period, unfortunately, Adventists as a group usually refuse a serious study of anyone other than EGW and the Bible… and they interpret the Bible through EGW. This is evidenced in the Adventist Bible Commentaries, which make an
attemtp to explain the Bible and are heavily interlaced with EGW (having her own volume) in doing this.

Name one place where I have used Ellen White’s writings in discussing the Sabbath, and in proving my point about same; here on The Catholic Answers Forums. I believe the answer to this will provide members of the public with the reality of your malicious anti-Adventist sentiments.

Originally Posted by SDA2RC
The international date line is a MAN MADE day… therefore, two people are celebrating the Sabbath on two different days although they may be only 5 miles apart. Explain to my the Adventist answer for this…
You say that Adventists have answered this… please show me the official Adventist response on this.

I did provide a brief personal understanding in post #160; but as I said Maria1212, that is the answer which Brandon doesn’t like. As I said; only people are creating problems with this Sabbath in the Arctic thing, or the international dateline. None of it is a probem to me - atleast I have seen no convincing reasons here yet; except for legalistic “interpretations” from Leviticus which you guys keep giving us Adventists to stop using!

 

[Joel1984]

To Richard

I will post a reply to your dual law theory once you respond to previous posts by me, (thread part 11, 3 posts on the sabbath) as it seems that Protestant101 is unable (like most SDA’s) to rebutt my objections.

Christian regards
Joel Sexton

 

[Richard_Kastner]

To Richard

I will post a reply to your dual law theory once you respond to previous posts by me, (thread part 11, 3 posts on the sabbath) as it seems that Protestant101 is unable (like most SDA’s) to rebutt my objections.

Christian regards
Joel Sexton

I will answer some of the questions you bring up in (part 11) not because I even care wether you answer me, but because some of your misinformation needs to be cleared up.
Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Richard_Kastner]

*Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

We must ask our SDA friend a few questions at this point.

1. Where in this passage or anywhere in Genesis do we find Adam or Eve or anyone keeping the sabbath?
2. What would Adam and Eve rest from with their first full day with God? Man was made on the 6th day. The 7th was their first full day of fellowship with God in the perfect work of creation. What would the need be of keeping a 24 hr sabbath before the fall?

3)Wouldn’t the fact the phrase “evening and morning” is absent from the 7th day show that this “rest” in Genesis was to be an on going fellowship rest with God before the fall?*

1. I refuse to be limited to one or two books of the bible. In Isaiah we read Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
   9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast.(You can red what Paul has to say about this in 1 Cor.3) 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
   11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
   12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
   13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
   So the whole bible is the word of God. And any statement or rebuttal can and should be taken from any and all of it.
   2)I’ll combine the actual answer to 1) with this answer.
   First we need to realize just what the Lord is talking about when He says rest. We don’t rest from something. We enter into the Lord’s rest and this rest is entered into through faith. Consider Heb.3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
   17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
   18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
   19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
   So we see that not everyone is allowed into the rest of the Lord because of a lack of faith.This continues in ch.4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
   2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
   3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
   4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
   5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
   6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
   7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
   8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
   9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
   10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
   Verse 4 is a reference to Gen. 2:3. Verse 7 says that it is a certain day and verse 8 says that Jesus did not change the day. Verse 9 says the seventh day Sabbath of Gen. 2:1-3 is still binding. I ask you brothers and sisters what more proof do you need than the clear word of Almighty God.
   The need of keeping the Sabbath before the fall was because God wanted it that way. Like I said it was not a rest from anything but a rest (fellowship) in and with the Lord.
2. If you will notice in Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. The work of creation is finished, that is, all the physical things. In verse 2 it says that God finished His work, well the only thing left to finish was the week. So the only thing God created the last day was the day itself and He did that by resting. He also blessed and sanctified this day. Why? He blessed and sanctified that day with the hope that we would enter into His rest through faith.

Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Joel1984]

Richard

Instead of responding to my last post you decided to give a red herring and start a new topic. I gave a rebuttal to your previous post point by point which you have failed to do. It has become clear that you or Protestant101 cannot deal with objections against your postion.

You quote about three or four verses which you believe show that there are two laws. This postion is easily refuted by scripture. The fact of the matter is that God gave the whole law including what Moses had recorded in the book of the law. God gave PART of the law in one manner while Moses gave the whole law to the children of Isreal.

The reason God wrote the ten of his commandments on stone while the hundreds of other commandments were not is because the decalogue was to be the contract of the covenant. Or, the “words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” (Ex34:28b)

It was not uncommon at that time for people to use an object as a witness.

Genesis 21:27 And Abraham took sheep and oxen, and gave them unto Abimelech; and both of them made a covenant.
Genesis 21:28 And Abraham set seven ewe lambs of the flock by themselves.
Genesis 21:29 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What mean these seven ewe lambs which thou hast set by themselves?
Genesis 21:30 And he said, For these seven ewe lambs shalt thou take of my hand, that they may be a witness unto me, that I have digged this well.

Genesis 28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.
Genesis 28:19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.
Genesis 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

Genesis 31:48 And Laban said, This heap is a witness between me and thee this day. Therefore was the name of it called Galeed;

The ten commandments were called a “testimony” which in the hebrew means a “witness.”

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.

*[Exodus 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him./I]

You stated “The curses and judgements of this law spelled out penalties for transgression totally missing from the Ten Commandments.” There were no curses tied to the ten commandments?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The curse of the law was death. Jesus became death for us. Is it not true Richard that if an Isrealite was to say break the 2nd commandment concerning idolatry or the 4th commandment concerning sabbath or if they were to commit adultery and break the 7th commandment would they not fall under the curse of the law…DEATH?? You know they would Richard. If an Isrealite was to commit idolatry, adultery or break the sabbath they were “cut off” taken outside the camp and stoned to death.

Here’s an example of a man gather sticks on the sabbath.

Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Numbers 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Numbers 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
*[Numbers 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp./I]
*[Numbers 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses./I]

That is just one example of many in the OT that could be given for the peanilty of breaking the 10 commandments.

I will continue on my next post…***