Seventh-day Sabbath Questions And Answers

[Joel1984]

Continuing last post
Richard

Paul states clearly that both the 10 commandment part of the law and the whole law had curses of death tied to them.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
*2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:/I]
2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Paul clearly calls what was “engraven in stones” the “ministration of death” and “condemnation” (2Cor3:7,9). Nothing could be clearer. It goes to show that people can be so blinded by their own system that they can miss such plain passages of scripture.

You then quote Col2:14 as somehow a proof for your postion.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The assertion is made that since here we have the word “ordinances” and the same word is used in the OT they must mean the same thing! Wrong. Two words in two different contexts usually give you a different meaning. For instance, within the same chapter of Col2 you have “ordinances” twice with two different meanings in the greek.

The context and greek of the verse in question clearly shows that the law in no way was nailed to the cross. (It seems that we’re both arguing each others postion as it wouldn’t be favorable for you if the law was nailed to the cross.)

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

The context is clear as to what Paul is referring to in v14. The context from v11-13 is clearly about the sins of the believer and not the Law as a whole or part. This is especially true of v13, the statement right before the verse in question.In v14 Paul is clearly finishing on what he stated in the previous verse…“being dead in your sins…having forgiven you all trespasses.” The orginal bares this out also.

The “handwriting of ordiances” is “cheirographon dogmas” meaning: record or legal document of decrees. The greek word for “way” in v14 means middle. Some translations render the text “sin of indebtness” as the handwriting of ordanices. I think Paul was making a figurative statement to show his point that the sins of the believer are nailed to the cross. He uses the illustration of a legal document. Kind of the same as early in Romans. It should also be noted that when Paul wanted to refer to the law he always used the word law-nomos, did so about 187 times. So it’s clear from the context that it is our sins that were nailed to the cross.

Also, if in fact the law of Moses was nailed to the cross that wouldn’t help your postion at all Richard. The law of Moses was the first five books of the OT. Gen-Duet. In those five books you have the ten commandments listed twice, (Ex20; Deut5) and also your dietary laws (Lev11; Deut14). So this type of argumentation actually shows the great inconsistentacy of the Adventist postion as they shoot themselves in the foot.

You then state that Isa66:23 does not refer to the monthly sabbaths. Any bible student knows that the phrase “new moons” are clearly the monthly sabbaths as listed seven times in the OT and once in the NT with the weekly and yearly sabbaths. We both know that the SDA church doesn’t keep the new moons but yet quote Isaiah to prove the sabbath will be kept in the New heavens and new earth. Inconsistency all over!

I will continue to respond to your posts as time permits. Tired of typing now
Christian regards
Joel Sexton*

 

[Joel1984]

To Richard

I’ll make a few points on the dual law theory and on Heb 4 which you brought up in your last post.

First, the word “law” in most cases in the OT as well as the NT means the Pentateuch, the first five books of the OT. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The Hebrew word for Law is Toraw or Torah and the greek word for law in the NT is nomos. Both imply this. So when someone quotes a text with “law” in it and says it means the ten commandments, nothing more or nothing less is dead wrong as the original shows.

Second, many verses show that the “law of Moses” and the “law of God” or the “law of the Lord” are the exact same thing. Those phrases are used interchangably. Thus, the SDA view that they are two totally different things contradicts the word of God. As an SDA Richard I’m sure you are aware that your church teaches that the “law of Moses” and the “law of God” are two different things, and I bet you agree and say the same thing. Below I give list a few verses that show they are indeed the same thing.

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

Ezra 7:11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel.

Ezra 7:12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.

Ezra 7:14 Forasmuch as thou art sent of the king, and of his seven counsellors, to enquire concerning Judah and Jerusalem, according to the law of thy God which is in thine hand;

Ezra 7:21 And I, even I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which are beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, shall require of you, it be done speedily,

It’s pretty clear from the above passage that the “law of Moses” and the “law of the Lord” “law of thy God” are one and the same thing.

Nehemiah 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

Nehemiah 8:2 And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Nehemiah 8:14 And they found written in the law which the LORD had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month:

Nehemiah 8:18 Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.

What was the book of the law? Adventist’s say it was the law of Moses put on the side of the ark…

Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

And they are correct…but it is also called the “law of God” in Neh8! Thus the SDA whole dual law theory comes crashing down.

2 Chronicles 31:3 He appointed also the king’s portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD

This one should make any SDA shutter. The SDA church claims the “law of the Lord” is the 10 commandments, nothing more at all. But where do we find “burnt offerings” and “feasts” in the 10 commandments??? Also notice the weekly sabbath is lumped right in with the monthly and yearly sabbaths.

Luke 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, EVERY MALE THAT OPENETH THE WOMB SHALL BE CALLED HOLY TO THE LORD

Where is the above found in written in the 10 commandments? It is found in Ex 13. Showing again, clearly, that the Law of the Lord is the Law of Moses which included the 10 commandments.

Luke 2:24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Where is “sacrifice” required in the 10 commandments? I think you get my point Richard. It is way to clear from scripture. So when ever you see the word “law” in the bible Richard it simply means the whole law, not just a small chunk as you and your church try to say.

This clearly blows out of the water 9 out of 10 SDA proof texts as SDA’s themselves don’t do the things written in the law of the Lord. They themselves don’t keep it!

Continued on next post…

 

[Joel1984]

Continued from last post
Richard

Your last post was on Heb 4. You seem to think Richard that this passage is a proof that christians must keep sabbath. Richard Heb 4 doesn;t answer the questions I posted. I will re-post them here.

1. Where in this passage or anywhere in Genesis do we find Adam or Eve or anyone keeping the sabbath?
2. What would Adam and Eve rest from with their first full day with God? Man was made on the 6th day. The 7th was their first full day of fellowship with God in the perfect work of creation. What would the need be of keeping a 24 hr sabbath before the fall?

3)Wouldn’t the fact the phrase “evening and morning” is absent from the 7th day show that this “rest” in Genesis was to be an on going fellowship rest with God before the fall?

1. Since God gave Adam and Eve commandments (be fruitful and mulitply, dont eat of the tree of good and evil etc) and yet not one is given to keep sabbath hint at the fact that they werent commanded to do so?
2. From Genesis-Exodus before Sinia the pariarchs and Isrealites were given commandments concerning: circumsion,sacrifices,the altar,tithe,marriage,feast days etc but not one word is said about a sabbath untill Ex16. Would not this also show that the sabbath was not known untill Ex16 and not given in Gen2?

Please answer Richard. Protestant101 didn’t seem able to at all and am curious to see how you do.

A few points on Heb 4.

First, your own churches Bible Commentary vol 7gives a lengthy expostion of Heb 3,4 and say in no way can they use this passage of scripture to support sabbath keeping. Maybe you should take a look at that commentary Richard. I don’t have access to it now but I remeber it was well done.

Second, you quote v4 of Heb 4 as some proof as the writer is somehow advocating sabbath keeping.

Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

This is a direct quote of Gen2:2. You assume the thing that has yet to be proven. That Gen2:2,3 shows that Adam and Even kept sabbath and that God had given the sabbath there in Eden.

Notice that Gen2:2 says God ENDED His work on the seventh day. Hence He did not keep a 24 hour period anyway you want to slice it.

Third, Notice also from Heb 3,4 that it says “Today” to enter his rest 5 times. Not on the sabbath day, but “today”. Notice also that the word for rest in Heb 4:9 is not sabbaton which means sabbath which is used every place in scripture to denote the sababth but sabbatismos. This word does not imply keeping the weekly sabbath at all but a “heavenly rest.” This rest is a future “canna” rest but believers are told now to enter into it. Isreal had the sabbath for 1500 years but Heb 4 says that they did not enter His rest, thus the writer is not speaking of a physical sabbath rest.

Lastly, the book of Hebrews was written to Jewish christians who were going back to the law and the temple services. The intro of the whole rest discourse in Heb 3 makes a comparison of Moses to Jesus.

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

This is what opens up the whole discourse about “rest” Heb3:7-4:11. Jesus and His house is SUPERIOR to Moses and his. It is really hard to see that in all of that and the whole book of Hebrews which talks about a better covenant and the old being done away that the writer would then say, by the way…you are to still keep the weekly sabbath! Too much is assumed on your part Richard without proof.

Christian regards
Joel Sexton

 

[Protestant101]

I was asked by someone to post my answer to the following question:

**

Q. Isaiah 66 talks about the Sabbath and the New Moons. It says God is never changing, so we will always keep the Sabbath. Is this New Moon the same as it was given to the nation of Israel?

**This passage reads, “And it shall come to pass from one New Moon to another, from one Sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship before Me.” And the answer is yes and no.

First of all, there’s no question that God is saying that from one week to another, and one month to another, we will all come and worship before the Lord. The Jewish weeks were divided by the Sabbath. Their months were divided by the New Moons.

Now one theory is that the seasons of the world were altered by the flood. I think our earth went through a catastrophic upheaval during the flood, and the earth did not cycle through the seasons we have each year now. I think the earth tilted on its axis, which is what gives us our seasons. It may be that the month in the new earth will have exactly 28 days, and if that’s the case, it means that every new moon will also be a Sabbath.

However, God is not telling us anywhere in the Ten Commandments that we need to keep the New Moons. The New Moons were separate from the Sabbath commandment in the Bible.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard
You quote about three or four verses which you believe show that there are two laws. This postion is easily refuted by scripture. The fact of the matter is that God gave the whole law including what Moses had recorded in the book of the law. God gave PART of the law in one manner while Moses gave the whole law to the children of Isreal.

The mountain of misinformation in your posts is almost overwhelming. For that reason I had almost decided not to answer you, but then I prayed and the Lord seems to be directing me to give it one last try. I’m not even going to try to answer all of what you wrote simply because much of it is irrelavent or pointless.

You start hear by saying that the two laws spoken of in Deut. 4:13,14 can be easily refuted by scripture yet you don’t cite the scriptures. Instead you go off on some tangent about witness or covenant or something.I’m not sure why.

The reason God wrote the ten of his commandments on stone while the hundreds of other commandments were not is because the decalogue was to be the contract of the covenant. Or, the “words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” (Ex34:28b)

Bravo, I agree with this.

You stated “The curses and judgements of this law spelled out penalties for transgression totally missing from the Ten Commandments.” There were no curses tied to the ten commandments?

Now see what you are doing here Joel. You have that nice quote there and then in your next statement you misquote it.
6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
17 Thou shalt not kill.
18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19 Neither shalt thou steal.
20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour’s wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ***, or any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Here are the ten commandments as found in Deuteronomy 5. You can’t find anything written in these commandments that is against us or is a curse. I did not say that there is no curse connected with them tho. Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What is sin? 1 John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The curse of the law was death. Jesus became death for us. Is it not true Richard that if an Isrealite was to say break the 2nd commandment concerning idolatry or the 4th commandment concerning sabbath or if they were to commit adultery and break the 7th commandment would they not fall under the curse of the law…DEATH?? You know they would Richard.

Of course they would. Couldn’t agree more. Again I dirrect you back to your misquote.

Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Also, if in fact the law of Moses was nailed to the cross that wouldn’t help your postion at all Richard. The law of Moses was the first five books of the OT. Gen-Duet. In those five books you have the ten commandments listed twice, (Ex20; Deut5) and also your dietary laws (Lev11; Deut14). So this type of argumentation actually shows the great inconsistentacy of the Adventist postion as they shoot themselves in the foot.

Ok, I proably was not specific enough. The “hand writing of ordinances” spoken of in Colossians I beleive is that part of the Mosaic law that is pophetic in nature and is a type or foreshadowing of the cross ie the sanctuary system, the monthly and yearly sabbaths, festivals etc. The sanctuary system shows us God’s plan of salvation in a most vivid way. The courtyard in which was the altar of burnt offerings is symbolic of the cross and Christs sacrifice for us. (justification) The holy place wherein was the lampstand with the oil lamps (Holy Spirit). The table of shewbread (Jesus, bread of life) And the altar of incence (the prayers of the faithful). This room symbolizes sanctification. then there is the veil which symbolizes our sins. And finally the holy of holies wherein is the ark of the covenant which is covered by the mercy seat upon which God dwells. Inside the ark are the tables of the ten commandments. Symbolizing that God’s kingdom is based on this law however it is tempered by mercy manifested in the son of God Jesus Christ. These prophesies were fulfilled in the cross therefore are no longer needed.

You then state that Isa66:23 does not refer to the monthly sabbaths. Any bible student knows that the phrase “new moons” are clearly the monthly sabbaths as listed seven times in the OT and once in the NT with the weekly and yearly sabbaths. We both know that the SDA church doesn’t keep the new moons but yet quote Isaiah to prove the sabbath will be kept in the New heavens and new earth. Inconsistency all over!

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Here it is again Joel. What this is saying is that the faithful in heaven will come to worship the Lord from month to month and from Sabbath to Sabbath. Are you saying that Isaiah is wrong and the Sabbath won’t be kept in the new heaven and the new earth.

Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Richard_Kastner]

To Richard
What was the book of the law? Adventist’s say it was the law of Moses put on the side of the ark…

Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

And they are correct…but it is also called the “law of God” in Neh8! Thus the SDA whole dual law theory comes crashing down.

I don’t see why. All law comes from God. The fact that the bible says so should come as no surprise.

2 Chronicles 31:3 He appointed also the king’s portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD

This one should make any SDA shutter. The SDA church claims the “law of the Lord” is the 10 commandments, nothing more at all. But where do we find “burnt offerings” and “feasts” in the 10 commandments??? Also notice the weekly sabbath is lumped right in with the monthly and yearly sabbaths.

Again all law comes from God. “burnt offerings” and “feasts” are not found in the ten commandments thats my point they are found in a diferent set of laws.

Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Richard_Kastner]

First, your own churches Bible Commentary vol 7gives a lengthy expostion of Heb 3,4 and say in no way can they use this passage of scripture to support sabbath keeping. Maybe you should take a look at that commentary Richard. I don’t have access to it now but I remeber it was well done.

I’ll just let the SDA bible commentary answer this:

SDA Bible Commentary on Did rest Heb. 4:4
Did rest. Gr. Katapauo “to stop,” “to cease,” “to rest.” Like the related noun katapausis, the verb katapauo denotes cessation from labor or other activity, together with the state or condition of inactivity that follows cessation (see on ch. 3:11). The equivalent Hebrew word, shabath, translated “rested” in Gen. 2:2 (see comment there) – the passage of Scripture here quoted –literally means “to cease” from labor or activity. Katapauo and shabath thus include both cessation from previous activity and the state of inactivity that follows cessation. Both aspects of meaning were true of God’s “rest” on that first Sabbath day; He ceased creating, and then continued in a state of inactivty so far as further creating was concerned. The “works” of creation were complete in every respect, and on that first Sabbath day, which He made a memorial of creation. God began His “rest” from creating this earth. So far as our world is concerned God has never again taken up the work of creating then laid down, nor has He revoked or amended the laws then set up to govern the natural world. The writer of Hebrews here focuses attention on creation – including the material world, the laws that govern it, man, and God’s purpose for him and for the world –as a completed act not subject to later revision. The emphasis, then, here, is on God’s cessation from further creative activity.

The Sabbath of creation week was also the first full day of life for Adam. His experiences that day were a foretaste of the eternal “rest” that was in store for him should he remain loyal to God. Our observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath testifies to our faith in the true God as a Creator of all things, and is a visible expression of that faith. It testifies also to our desire to live in harmony with His great eternal purpose for this world – implicit in the creation of this world and of man to live upon it – and with His purpose for us as individuals. See on Ex. 20:8; Eze. 20:12, 20; Isa. 58:13. As God’s original purpose for this world – His “rest” – remains unchanged, the seventh day Sabbath, the day of “rest.” He established to be a memorial of creation and thus a reminder of His purpose in the creation of the world, likewise remains unchanged. The observance of the seventh-day Sabbath thus testifies not only to faith in God as the Creator of all things, but also to faith in His power to transform the life and qualify men and women for entering into that eternal “rest” He originally intended for the inhabitants of this earth. The Sabbath thus bears witness both to the creative and to the sanctifying power of God, and its observance is an acknowledgment of faith in His power to create and to re-create, or sanctify, individual lives.

Again. The statement is here quoted for the third time (cf. Chs. 3:11; 4:3). The entire argument in chs. 3:7 to 4:10 revolves around God’s withdrawal of His invitation to enter into His “rest.” Here, the quotation with that from Gen. 2:2 (in Heb. 4:4) by way of explaining the significance of the reference in vs. 3, 4 to God’s “rest” on the seventh day of creation week. The writer has introduced this reference to God’s “works” being “finished” (see on v. 3) and to the fact that He “did rest” (v. 4), to prove that the withdrawal of His promise to ancient Israel was not absolute. In other words, the promise was not withdrawn altogether from all men, but only from those who “entered not in because of unbelief” (v. 6)

Yours in Christ Richard

 

[Maria1212]

What is the SDA Bible commentary? Is that the same as the SDA Clear Word Bible? Is it online?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Richard_Kastner]

What is the SDA Bible commentary? Is that the same as the SDA Clear Word Bible? Is it online?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

The SDA bible commentary is the bible with exegetical and expository comment. No it isn’t the same as the Clear Word Bible. I don’t beleive it is on line.

In Christ Richard

 

[Maria1212]

The SDA bible commentary is the bible with exegetical and expository comment. No it isn’t the same as the Clear Word Bible. I don’t beleive it is on line.

In Christ Richard

Thanks. Is the title called SDA Bible Commentary? Or, is it an Adventist Bible with footnotes? Is it sold at Amazon.com? If so, could you post the link?

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Thanks. Is the title called SDA Bible Commentary? Or, is it an Adventist Bible with footnotes? Is it sold at Amazon.com? If so, could you post the link?

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Maria1212

It is called the Seventh Day Adventist Bible Commentary. The Reveiw and Herald Publishing Association holds the copyrights. I was just on their website trying to get some information on it. They don’t seem to have it available there. If you find it somewhere please let me know.

In Christ Richard

 

[planter654]

God often waits for a while to reveal truths which He wants us to hear; but knows we are not ready for yet…

The “Early Church Fathers” meaning the first Catholics; (not the true early church), did not mention this as a problem because they couldn’t. Most Catholic theologians and pioneers would readily admit that the change to Sunday is not stated in the Bible. They would tell you that this change was done solely by the “authority” of the Catholic Church. Now; in order for any of the Catholic Church Fathers to admit there is a problem with “Sunday observance;” the first thing they would have to do is to deny their own church’s “authority!”

When did Jesus go into the temple? Did he not also obey the laws of God, the sabbath, passover, etc. when he walked the earth?? Did he not also say I did not come to change “ONE” tittle of the law, but added a new commendment???

Did Jesus come to change God’s laws, NO!!! But to re-teach them. Was Jesus not angry with the chief priest and scribes? What did Jesus call them? Remember all the WOES, HYPOCRITIES? That is why Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel!! They had NO true Shepherd, don’t you think?

I am a Catholic but rather now be called a “very little child” of God. When I was a child the Catholic church said if you ate meat on Friday it was a “SIN”! I thought if I did so I would go to hell! Hello! I am not talking bad about the Catholic church!

Jesus asked the Scribes and Pharisees this–'WHY"? do you TRANSGRESS the commandments of God because of “YOUR TRADITION”? Is Jesus not saying-- Man made traditions not God’s!

JESUS SAID: HYYPOCRITES, well did Isaias prophesy of “YOU”, saying, " this people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me: and in “VAIN” do they worship me, teaching as “DOCTRINE” the percepts of “MEN”!!! Jesus also “NEVER” changed the words of the prophets.Jesus said: What did Moses say? What did Isaias say? etc!!

“DO NOT THINK that I have come to destroy the LAW or the PROPHETS! I have “NOT COME” to destroy, but to fulfill. For amen I say to you, “”“TILL HEAVEN””"" AND""""“EARTH PASS AWAY”""", NOT “ONE” JOT of “ONE” TITTLE SHALL BE LOST FROM THE LAW TILL ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED.

There-fore “WHOEVER” does away with “ONE” of these least commandments, and so “TEACHES” men, shall be called least in the KINGDOM of heaven: but who ever “CARRIES THEM OUT” and “TEACHES THEM, he shall be great in the kingdom of heaven. " For “I” say to ;you that unless your justice “EXCEEDS” that of the Scribes and Phariesees, you shall “NOT ENTER” the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN”!!!

And no— not all things have been accomplished yet!! Jesus accomplished his works as spoken at the last supper, but not till all the gentles are in!!!

Jesus said: NOT everyone who says to me, " Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven: but he who “DOES” the “WILL” of my Father in heaven shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

We are not here to please man!!! Believe the word, fallow the word, live in the word, obey the word!!

We were created from “LOVE” to become “LOVE” to serve “LOVE”–Love to all

 

[planter654]

Strictly speaking, there is no sabbath anymore…Not for Christians. The sabbath was part of the Mosaic law. (Still is, for Jews, but that is another thread).
Christians are to observe, through worship, the “Lord’s Day”–ie, the day that Jesus Christ arose from the dead. That was/is the day* after* the sabbath…Which is to say, Sunday.

You are wrong Jesus did not rise on Sunday my friend. When Mary MagdaLene came early to the tomb while it was still dark ON THE DAWN OF THE FIRST DAY, Jesus was already gone “BEFORE” SHE GOT THERE!! —GOSPEL OF JOHN

But on the first day of the eek at EARLY DAWN they came to the tomb etc etc. Jesus was risen before they got there. He was gone!!! Gospel of Luke

Now late in the night “of the Sabbath” as the first day of the week began to dawn Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came–Jesus was gone had already risen!!! Gospel of Matthew

And when the sabbath was past! And very early on the first day of the week they came to the tomb, when the sun had just risen (first day of the week) Mary Magdalene, Mary— the Angel said: He has risen, he is not here!!! The angel said also—he goes BEFORE you to Galilee!! Jesus was gone before they got there!!! Gospel of Mark

God Bless

 

[mercygate]

You are wrong Jesus did not rise on Sunday my friend. When Mary MagdaLene came early to the tomb while it was still dark ON THE DAWN OF THE FIRST DAY, Jesus was already gone “BEFORE” SHE GOT THERE!! —GOSPEL OF JOHN

But on the first day of the eek at EARLY DAWN they came to the tomb etc etc. Jesus was risen before they got there. He was gone!!! Gospel of Luke

Now late in the night “of the Sabbath” as the first day of the week began to dawn Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came–Jesus was gone had already risen!!! Gospel of Matthew

And when the sabbath was past! And very early on the first day of the week they came to the tomb, when the sun had just risen (first day of the week) Mary Magdalene, Mary— the Angel said: He has risen, he is not here!!! The angel said also—he goes BEFORE you to Galilee!! Jesus was gone before they got there!!! Gospel of Mark

God Bless

While it is correct that the women arrived early on the first day of the week, the Sabbath had ended in the evening prior. There is no reason to presume that Jesus rose before the “first day” especially in light of Jesus’ citation of the “three days” parallel with Jonah (Mt. 12:40).

 

[planter654]

While it is correct that the women arrived early on the first day of the week, the Sabbath had ended in the evening prior. There is no reason to presume that Jesus rose before the “first day” especially in light of Jesus’ citation of the “three days” parallel with Jonah (Mt. 12:40).

Sorry I do not agree. There is witness and it is recorded as such Why do we alter just facts that are spoken in simple words? Before the dawn of the first day. He, Jesus was gone period before the full light of the first day of the week!

thank You

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Sorry I do not agree. There is witness and it is recorded as such Why do we alter just facts that are spoken in simple words? Before the dawn of the first day. He, Jesus was gone period before the full light of the first day of the week!

thank You

Jesus was gone before the light of the first day, however the day in the bible is measured from evening to evening. So when the seventh day ended the first day began. Therefore the women could have come very early the fist day and Jesus would have risen hours before, yet still on the first day.

In Christ Richard

 

[planter654]

Saturday is the sabbath. It has always been the sabbath and it will always be the sabbath. As I understand it, Catholics teach that Sunday - as the eigth day, and the day on which our Lord rose from the dead - is termed the Lord’s day. It wasn’t a pope that first taught that we should worship on the Sunday instead of the Saturday, but the apostles themselves. I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of evidence in the Acts of the Apostles that they did this.

In worshipping on the Sunday, Catholics can keep the third Commandment - ie fulfil the sabbath obligation as it were.

Did Jesus not go and preach in the temple on sabbaths–Sat.! Were not the apostles with him. Jesus celebrated as a young child with Mary his mother and Joseph going to the feast days-passover etc!

That was 2,000 years ago!!! They still do it till this day! I do not believe his eye witnessess his apostles would do the opposite changing to a Sun!

Jesus was removed from the cross before the Sabbath day because it was against their law!!

Where are you getting your information?

Love to all

 

[planter654]

Jesus was gone before the light of the first day, however the day in the bible is measured from evening to evening. So when the seventh day ended the first day began. Therefore the women could have come very early the fist day and Jesus would have risen hours before, yet still on the first day.

In Christ Richard

What day did God “COMMAND” the Sabbath to be on? Is the sabbath day not a “HOLY” Day? God said: that the sabbath day would be a sign a token between you and me. When God brought the Hebrews out of the land of Egypt, out of bondage. Did Jesus not also bring us out of bondage also?"

In the “early dawn” of the first day means what?
They would not go if it was still the hours of the sabbath day, would they? It would be against their law, would it not? Do you know what time Jesus rose?

Love to all

 

[planter654]

What day did God “COMMAND” the Sabbath to be on? Is the sabbath day not a “HOLY” Day? God said: that the sabbath day would be a sign a token between you and me. When God brought the Hebrews out of the land of Egypt, out of bondage. Did Jesus not also bring us out of bondage also?"

In the “early dawn” of the first day means what?
They would not go if it was still the hours of the sabbath day, would they? It would be against their law, would it not? Do you know what time Jesus rose?

Love to all

Was Jesus not taken into custody on Thurs. Held against his will? Thurs. Fri. Sat. He rose on the third day? Was Jonah not thrown out of the fish on the third day?