Sex abuse in the Eastern Churches?

[Stathios]

Obervations made by a concerned group chronicling sex abuses in the Orthodox Churches in the U.S.:

pokrov.org/

It is a societal problem and no religious group is immuned from it!

I never SAID it was immune from IT.

What I was saying ALL the priest that abused children that I KNOW OF WERE CLERGY THAT WERE NOT MARRIED!!!
I NEVER SEEN A MARRIED PRIEST, PASTOR OR WHATEVER ABUSE CHILDREN, IT IS ALLWAYS AN UNMARRIED PRIEST.

GOT IT???

 

[Amadeus]

I never SAID it was immune from IT.

What I was saying ALL the priest that abused children that I KNOW OF WERE CLERGY THAT WERE NOT MARRIED!!!
I NEVER SEEN A MARRIED PRIEST, PASTOR OR WHATEVER ABUSE CHILDREN, IT IS ALLWAYS AN UNMARRIED PRIEST.

GOT IT???

Relax!

You don’t have to “shout” to make your point across. And don’t get mad.

The group I cited says marital status is not a factor: married, single, or divorced persons can be the perpetrators, or the victims.

(I have a sneaky feeling that I know what you are trying to convey! Bad boy! )

 

[Linda_W]

I wonder why this has happened predominantly in our Catholic church much more so than in Protestant churches or EO churches. The liberal media disdains conservative Protestant churches like the Southern Baptist Convention almost as much as it does us so if they (or other Protestants) had done any appreciable amount of this then I think it would have been reported.

Sure, Protestant churches do have other problems, but they don’t seem to have this one. Why us?

Eric

I used to wonder this same thing until I spoke with a wise priest/personal friend about this same matter. My question was, “why when we see Roman Catholics fall away they seem to engage in deeply evil activities or hold evil beliefs?” My priest’s response was this: "Unlike all others, we Catholics have been given the eucharist. As a result we are ’ more alive’ in this world because we have Christ Himself dwelling in us. The gift of being more alive is a grace that God cannot take away since He does not take back His gifts. When we fall into mortal sin we self excommunicate ourselves from God but the aliveness of the Catholic still remains. As a result of this Aliveness we Catholics, and fallen away Catholics maintain a life that is fuller than the non-Catholic. This is a gift that God cannot rescind although the person be in a state of mortal sin (do not confuse this state of being with being in the state of mortal sin; this grace is like all other sacraments. Meaning that once the grace is given it is forever). When the fallen away Catholic loses the physical contact of Jesus living in them via the Eucharist they still maintain the special aliveness. In their futile attempt to satiate the aliveness with nourishment they seek physical sinfulness that is most evil and often become adamant enemies of the church. I am aware this may be in the wrong sticky but I wanted to answer your question.

 

[FiremanFrank]

Hey!

Have the Eastern Catholics or Eastern Orthodox had any or as much trouble with pedophile priests as the Roman Catholics have? Thanks!

Myrrh23

A recent study linked to on Spiritdaily.com showed that sexual abuse was practically linear across ALL types of people.

Whether they be teachers, lawyers, politicians, Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic, … whatever.

Virtually the same percentage of people abuse in all factions of life.

 

[twf]

Stathios: Yet we know from the Apostle Paul that celibacy is better. The problem is, most of the sex-abuse offenders in the CC were men formed and ordained during the 60s and 70s…the seminaries were way too lax about who they let in. Standards are much more strict, in a psychological sense, today. Celibacy is a wonderful gift, but most men are too weak to endure it. It’s also interesting to note that virtually all the victims were male, which suggests the problem (in the CC) was connected to homosexuality and the priesthood as well.

 

[Hesychios]

Stathios: Yet we know from the Apostle Paul that celibacy is better.

Yes, for those who are able.

The problem is, most of the sex-abuse offenders in the CC were men formed and ordained during the 60s and 70s…the seminaries were way too lax about who they let in. …

I do not know that this is true. Laxity may not be the real reason.

Can you cite a study to support this contention?
*
Michael*

 

[Ridgerunner]

I NEVER SEEN A MARRIED PRIEST, PASTOR OR WHATEVER ABUSE CHILDREN, IT IS ALLWAYS AN UNMARRIED PRIEST.

Wow! I sure have! In one case near here a non-denom pastor did it, and his wife participated in it! And that’s not the only one of which I’m aware.

 

[kaygee]

Wow! I sure have! In one case near here a non-denom pastor did it, and his wife participated in it! And that’s not the only one of which I’m aware.

Most cases of child sexual abuse are perpetrated by family members, often by parents, most often by step parents.

 

[Thomas_a_Sinner]

I’ve been Orthodox for 13 years now and I only know of two cases of sexual abuse in Orthodox Churches.

The first case happened at the Mother Church of my Church. (We started as an offshoot Mission Church) about 10 years ago. The Children of the accused Priest were some of the founders of our Church and about 70% of the congregations were former members of the accused Priest Church. So I’m quite familiar with the case.

When the accusation first surfaced the Priest was suspended and the police were called. No questions asked! Everyone (The accused Priest, the Parish Council and our Bishop) involved thought that their first duty was to protect the child. What other rational action would a “normal” person take? The accusation was a crime. Does the Latin Church have a criminal investigation team? I sure know we don’t.

The accusation really hurt the congregation. Everyone I knew loved the Priest, but he had to be suspended. I can’t imagine how hard it must have been for the Priest to step aside under such circumstances and still come to the Divine Liturgy and all of the services of the Church as a lay person knowing everybody was talking about the accusation.

In my heart I knew the Priest was innocent, but what could I do? It’s a crime and a police matter. All I could do was pray for everybody involved. The police conducted their investigation and absolved the Priest of the accusations. The report hinted that the mother of the child (by this time the child was 18) created the accusation as a vendetta against the Priest. The mother has been suffering mental illness for as long as I’d known her. I still feel it’s demonic.

The Priest came back to the Priesthood but soon after took an early retirement.

The second case I know of happened at a Greek Monastery in Texas. The Abbot was a former used car salesman who along with several of the Monks had joined the Church as a whole congregation/monastery.

The Monastery was troubled from the beginning. They produced several, as it turned out, fake miracle working icons!

Again as soon as the sex abuse accusations surfaced the police were called. Everybody was suspended until the police conducted their investigation. Arrest were made in this case and jail time was served. People were excommunicated. I don’t think a case like this can be handled in any other way. If it were, I would think all sorts of conflicts of interest would appear. To keep a convicted/known child molested in communion with the Church let alone in the Priesthood would be sinful in and of its self!

I think there are several reasons why the Eastern Orthodox Church does not have a history of sexual abuse.

First, as others have pointed out, most Orthodox priests are married and have an outlet for their sexuality. By the way, a wife has to sign the final paperwork for a man to become a Priest. If the mans wife does not sign the paper work, the man can not join the Priesthood.

Secondly there is much more local control at the parish level in the Orthodox Churches in America. The local Priest is the Father of the congregation, but the people and council have a lot of authority in and of themselves. There is no way that the Bishops could hide a pedophile (God forbid) even if he wanted to. There is just no place it could happen. Everybody would know! When an Orthodox Priest changes parishes, it’s for a reason and everybody starts asking what happened? There would be phone calls and the truth would come out sooner rather than later.

Thirdly, why would the Holy Spirit allow a Bishop to hide a pedophile amongst the people of his flock? I think in legal terms it’s called aiding and abetting. In the Church it’s called sin. Not that the Church is without sin. The Church is the hospital for sinners like me and you. There is an old Orthodox saying that the “road to hell is paved with the skulls of Priests”! Why would a Bishop want to add to his judgment by hiding a pedophile?

Lastly, I would think if a pedophile Priest were discovered in an ethnic Slavic Church the congregation would literally rip the Priest apart with their bare hands. I’m not joking here. I’m a third generation Italian American so I’m not boasting from ethnic pride. It’s just been my observation of Serbian and Russian Orthodox that they are that devoted to the Church and their children.

Thomas, a Sinner

 

[prodromos]

Stathios: Yet we know from the Apostle Paul that celibacy is better.

Why then does he write to Timothy and Titus that the priest or bishop should be married with children?

John

 

[homewardbound]

I never SAID it was immune from IT.

What I was saying ALL the priest that abused children that I KNOW OF WERE CLERGY THAT WERE NOT MARRIED!!!
I NEVER SEEN A MARRIED PRIEST, PASTOR OR WHATEVER ABUSE CHILDREN, IT IS ALLWAYS AN UNMARRIED PRIEST.

GOT IT???

Just because the only ones you know of are unmarried priests does not mean they are the only ones who abuse nor abuse more than other men. All the men I know of who are abusers are not priests and are married. It is not always an unmarried priest, the media just likes to make it look that way. Plus, the married men and pastors who have families have their families and congregations there willing to cover for them. I know this from personal experience. I am a survivor of sexual abuse and it was not in a Catholic Church. Many many many young children are molested in non-Catholic churches, but when they try to tell they are kept quiet and shut down very quickly. More people are willing to jump to the aid of the abusers in non-Catholic churches. The survivors there are cast out and made to look bad, even if they are children.

Its sad that it has happened in any church, but the Catholic church does not have it happen more than other churches. People just like to think that because thats how its portrayed in the news. They are wrong.

 

[PazFeAmor]

First, as others have pointed out, most Orthodox priests are married and have an outlet for their sexuality.

I think that whether or not a person is married carries no weight as to whether or not that person will then go on to abuse a child. Most children who have been abused are abused by members of their own family.

So how does being married curb the sick and perverted mentality of someone sexually attracted to children??? It doesn’t. period. I was abused as a child and the family member who abused me was married. And I can’t tell you of the thousands upon thousands of children here in America (females for the most part) who have been abused by their uncles, father’s, step-father’s or older male cousins and the majority of these abusers were married men.

Whenever I see the case made that if Catholic priests could marry there would be less abuse it makes me want to scream. A sexually depraved person is a sick person and marriage does not cure such depravity.

I am sorry for going off-topic but I hate it when marriage is put as the antidote for sick, perverted sexual deviants.

Please forgive me again but I just needed to get this off my chest.

Peace to you all

 

[homewardbound]

I think that whether or not a person is married carries no weight as to whether or not that person will then go on to abuse a child. Most children who have been abused are abused by members of their own family.

So how does being married curb the sick and perverted mentality of someone sexually attracted to children??? It doesn’t. period. I was abused as a child and the family member who abused me was married. And I can’t tell you of the thousands upon thousands of children here in America (females for the most part) who have been abused by their uncles, father’s, step-father’s or older male cousins and the majority of these abusers were married men.

Whenever I see the case made that if Catholic priests could marry there would be less abuse it makes me want to scream. A sexually depraved person is a sick person and marriage does not cure such depravity.

I am sorry for going off-topic but I hate it when marriage is put as the antidote for sick, perverted sexual deviants.

Please forgive me again but I just needed to get this off my chest.

Peace to you all

AMEN! I agree, it is a very stupid argument. :hug1:

 

[Thomas_a_Sinner]

AMEN! I agree, it is a very stupid argument. :hug1:

I was always taught that when someone makes an ad hominem attack, it means that they’ve run out of argumants and cannot support their position.
Now, I could understand if you disagreed with me and had an alternative explaiation for pedophile priests, but to call me stupid is uncalled for.
I do know that most pedophiles are family members and I’m not saying that all celibate priest are pedophiles, far from it. Celibate monastics are our boast.
My first argument was that as men, priests need an outlet for their sexuality. Of course, I understand that a celibate priest is the ideal. I think we would all agee to that, but we have to deal in a fallen world and can only strive for the ideal.
Also, when you limit all the priests to celibacy, you are severely limiting your pool of candidates. And what’s the m.o. of a pedophile…happy, positive, try to get into positions of authority, try to project a “safe” image, kind to children, etc? What an ideal position for a pedophile.
Regardless, my main point was that the Latin Church has a knack for not calling the police when these situations arise. Don’t you think this gives the pedophiles out there the green light?
Thomas, a sinner

 

[homewardbound]

I was always taught that when someone makes an ad hominem attack, it means that they’ve run out of argumants and cannot support their position.
Now, I could understand if you disagreed with me and had an alternative explaiation for pedophile priests, but to call me stupid is uncalled for.
I do know that most pedophiles are family members and I’m not saying that all celibate priest are pedophiles, far from it. Celibate monastics are our boast.
My first argument was that as men, priests need an outlet for their sexuality. Of course, I understand that a celibate priest is the ideal. I think we would all agee to that, but we have to deal in a fallen world and can only strive for the ideal.
Also, when you limit all the priests to celibacy, you are severely limiting your pool of candidates. And what’s the m.o. of a pedophile…happy, positive, try to get into positions of authority, try to project a “safe” image, kind to children, etc? What an ideal position for a pedophile.
Regardless, my main point was that the Latin Church has a knack for not calling the police when these situations arise. Don’t you think this gives the pedophiles out there the green light?
Thomas, a sinner

I didn’t call you stupid, I called the argument that all men need to do is get married and Poof! they won’t be pedophiles anymore stupid, because it is. I’m sorry you felt attacked, I wasn’t meaning anyone when I posted that.

The Catholic Church is not the only one that has done nothing. I was molested in the Baptist faith and trust me, they do even less. This subject is not merely a Catholic problem, it is everywhere. The only reason it isn’t discussed as much is because people refuse to see whats right in front of them. Most people do not lie about being molested, especially not children. So anyone who says “Well, he was accused but I KNOW he was innocent.” Is just fooling themselves. People want to try to say this is an issue only for the Church because they refuse to accept that more than likely someone they know is being hurt.

1 out of every 4 women are abused or raped before they are 18. 1 out of every 8 men. It happens everywhere. But everyone wants to blame Latin Rite Catholics alone so that they themselves can be lulled into their false sense of security and keep turning the other way when those who are being hurt try to come forward.

 

[Catherine_Grant]

The previously stated guideline for discussion of pedophilia was so eloquently worded by the Eastern Christianity moderator that I present it here for re-iteration. Please take heed of the warning.

Warning!

That anyone is ever abused, sexually or otherwise, is a tragedy. That children and youth are the victims of such heightens the horror of the act. That the perpetrator of any such act be a clergyman or religious - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, or of any other Faith - escalates the act to a extraordinary level of revulsion, as these are persons with particular responsibility toward those they are intended to serve and accorded extraordinary trust by their victims, as a consequence of being seen as representatives of God, however the particular Church or Faith understands him.

I will not tolerate posts to this thread that attempt to use it as a podium to tout the idea that any Church is less or more culpable than another. There is more than adequate evidence available to suggest that the problem exists in every religious body to some extent - the numbers may vary - the tragedy remains the same. The horror of any one such instance is made no less so by a hundred elsewhere, nor is the horror of a hundred such instances cheapened by the discovery that there was one elsewhere.

More in order than finger-pointing and taking pleasure in the failings of others (“hah, you had more!” or “see, yours did it too!”) would be a rational discussion of why and how this is allowed to happen, what can be done to prevent it, and prayers for those victimized, for their families, for the families of the victimizers, and for both the victimizer and any in authority who were conscious of a victimizer’s abuse and failed to act on it in a timely and responsible manner.

Future posts to this thread will conform to these expectations or will engender appropriate consequences.

 

[sassenach49]

Two websites thoroughly discuss the issue of clergy sexual abuse in the Orthodox Churches (at least in North America), one was already mentioned: www.pokrov.org run by Cappy Larson and Melanie Jula Sakoda. They are moms of victims of abuse, they are controversial, and they are passionate advocates for victims. Believe it or not, that doesn’t make them popular people in the O.C, either among the hierarchy or the clergy and especially among the converts!

Another site that’s of more recent origin is: www.orthodoxreform.org The whole Nick Katinas debacle is detailed on that site, as well as a number of other clergy credibly accused, one of which ruined the life of my child!

 

[surgei]

As my brother, Carson, has noted, there have been instances of sexual abuse by both EC and EO clergy (as well as OC and OO). They have been relatively few in number but, given the smaller sizes of the Churches involved, do the percentages approach those in the Latin Church - or in any other faith? I can’t say that I’ve seen any formal studies, but I don’t believe so.

Frankly, it concerns me less whether the percentages are comparable than that it happens. Rather than speculating, I’d be more inclined to suggest prayers for all involved - victims, perpetrators, and the faithful whose faith is threatened.

Many years,

Neil

just a note. there is no statistical difference in clerics of any denomination. nor is there more abuse in the crerical rank than in another career choice.
growing up baptist preachers kid I remember some of my friends were abused sexually and otherwise by their baptist preacher fathers.

 

[lucy212]

I am not trying to pit one side against another, but sincerely have a question that has been on my mind a long time, but have hesitated to ask because I it is such a painful wound, and I understand why Roman Catholics swiftly rise to defend their Church, when this subject is brought up, and is completely understandable.

I believe that Christ founded the one visible Church, and provided all things needed including His presence through the Holy Spirit. Given these gifts of Grace, the Truth of Faith to be guarded and handed down, and the source of Fullness of Grace for the world; all things that should make the Church stand out as a Light to the World, that professes that it cannot teach error or fall into heresy;

On one hand are very bold claims, and to a point, True claims, of her Superior Status, yet when it comes to something as important as the care and guarding of the flock, even to the most vulnerable, She, (I won’t say makes excuses, because she does not excuse, but condemns these sins) but seems to take refuge, comfort, and justification in occupying an even playing field in this situation…that statistically She is no better or worse than any other institution or any other segment of society… as if there no difference between Her and any other institution, sacred or secular.
I have been personally affected by this heartbreaking situation, and do not ask to start any flame war.

This may get me banned, but it is one question I have wanted to ask for a long time, but have been scared to death to ask; But since I have learned and understand most of the other questions that I have had, or at least now know where the reliable sources are to find answers, I’ll risk it; and deem it worth banning to now ask it.

I think the answer must be found among those whose faith has not been shaken by these scandals and no where else…I have looked long and hard for answers and they seem are not to be found anywhere else; but since, bottom line, this is one of the main reasons I haven’t reconciled to the Roman Catholic Church, it is more important to me than any other question.

Please…I would rather have and “I don’t know”, or the an admission that the " indelible mark of the Roman Catholic Priesthood or the fact that Rome is the True Church offers absolutely no special protection or grace when it comes to the human weaknesses that all men suffer due to original sin…if this is how Roman Catholics are able to have a peace about this that I have not been able to find.

I don’t need pages and pages of cut and paste quotes of why the Roman Catholic Church is the True Church; I know all those by heart. And even if the media has been extremely hard on the Church, by everyone’s admission, the statistics seem to say that they are no better or worse than anywhere else; I’ll except that though the media spins it differently; I will give the Church the benefit of the doubt, that problems have been exaggerated and that she is no worse than any other segment of society.
To those whose faithful whose faith has not been shaken or budged on iota, nor any doubt entered their mind…please, how do you reconcile this in light of all the other claims the Church makes.
I am just looking for something to hang on to; that someday may give me the courage to make peace with this.

 

[surgei]

Sorry that my statistics post came off the way it did.
The very fact that the grace is there is what bothers me in this scandal. I think thats what bothers the world as well. In our hearts we all know that they have rejected the grace that God has given them in the same ways the rest of us have rejected the grace we were given.
I don’t know why God allows it.
I know that my Mother and sisters being molested has opened a great sensativity to women in my own life. It has allowed me to be sensative in an way that is not my typical personality. I know that sensativity saved my ex girlfriends life on the night she was raped and called me after a year of being apart.
I hope that those that suffer this way now get a special love from God in the hearafter.
May God grant you Peace. For in doing so he grants you himself.