Sex Addiction

[Nepenthe]

Nah, there’s no chicken vs egg here, I think. You’re both right, overall. Puberty is devastating, terrifying stuff, and it hits us all, no matter our culture (or species really…who has not had a kitten or puppy, and seen them struggle? they do too).

For us, yes, it’s a little different, especially since our maturation time is so very long. We have a whole huge new organ to support (cerebellum and cortex) and all that entails (plenty), yet we still deal with the hassle of reproductive strategy that goes with…being alive. Yes, I agree that fear of the human form does lead us to act really weirdly. At the same time, it behooves us to cover up the bits that are overly provocative to sexual behavior, in most situations.

As a medium, we have aesthetic appreciation – we can love beauty, of all forms, and we can learn to give each other ‘mental privacy.’ This may not be entirely chaste, yet it is mostly so. If it were entirely, it would be suspect I think, and not human, but it can be entirely respectful, charitable and kindly, which is indeed the signature of humanity.

‘Addiction’ to pleasure is natural to us all, but it need not be a compulsion, nor is it limited to sex, drugs, or anything else. I recommend varying one’s tastes, loving the beauty and satisfaction to be found in all aspects of living. If one becomes damaging, hey, take up surfing or something! No need to objectify other people or yourself, though those options are so accessible they make easy pickings…but we really are better than that, by nature, no kidding!

Heck if I can do it, a mere nontheist, shouldn’t be so tough, right?

 

[TruthSkr]

Well, Catholicism is a religion, so that is what you probably noticed.

But what are your reaons for your disagreement, please? I’m interested in your opinion on this…

The issue here, I believe, is that the Catholic Church teaches that sex outside of marriage is sinful. Since masturbation is sex outside of marriage, it is therefore sinful. That is our belief. If you choose to believe otherwise that is up to you, but others of us choose to believe differently.

I have read all of the posts for the past two days and find that everyone seems to be challanged with staying chaste during periods of abstenance. This is good because it makes me feel pretty normal to know that so many of you also struggle along with me. But I would still love to hear from someone who has been practicing Natural Family Planning for several years. As Dr. Smith notes in her CD that I previously referenced, those who practice NFP seem to have much less trouble with abstenance. I would like to hear from such a person. Is it really easier for you than for others? I have not had to use NFP because my wife had a historectomy many years ago.

 

[TruthSkr]

I would suggest reading the “Good News About Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West.

The first thing that comes to mind is that sex is not about an orgasm. That is not why your and your wife have sex. It is an effect of having sex, yes, but it is not the reason, not the main reason. The reason that you have sex is to renew your marriage vows. To unite as husband and wife, giving yourselves to one another as Christ gave Himself for us. You are open to life in every act.

Actually, I did read the “Good News About Sex and Marriage” a few weeks ago. It was a wonderfully informative and enlightening book. I believe that everyone should read it. So I do get it that sex is about so much more than orgasm, but when it comes right down to it there is still the daily grind of dealing with sexual tension during periods of abstenance. Even though I am 60 years old, the “new abstenance” in my life has left me feeling like someone with the libido of a 20 year old. Doesn’t this get any easier with time?

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Actually, I did read the “Good News About Sex and Marriage” a few weeks ago. It was a wonderfully informative and enlightening book. I believe that everyone should read it. So I do get it that sex is about so much more than orgasm, but when it comes right down to it there is still the daily grind of dealing with sexual tension during periods of abstenance. Even though I am 60 years old, the “new abstenance” in my life has left me feeling like someone with the libido of a 20 year old. Doesn’t this get any easier with time?

Truthskr,

I am glad that you have read that book, that is what has opened my eyes to the beauty of sex with my wife. I have realized that it is not all about having an orgasm and about releasing tension. Having practiced NFP throughout our marriage I am well aware of all the frustrations that can come with it. While there have been times that I want to be intimate with my wife and she does not, it is something that I just “deal with” and move on. Honestly, I do not know “how” I do this, but I have not had a struggle with it. I am not tempted to masturbate during those times nor am I in a position to try and “force” my wife to be intimate.

I think that it is just a light that went on when I read the book by CW. Once I heard that it was as if the flood gates were opened, my eyes could see clearly the beauty that is my wife. I was able to have respect for her and not just use her as a means for my own satisfaction.

It is not fair to put her in a position that she becomes a “sex toy” for my personal pleasure. Practial ways to get through moments of abstinece, again, I do not know. I just try to turn my mind to other things and not focus on the inner feelings that are longing to be intimate with my wife.

(Sorry I would type more, but it is dinner time)

Feel free to PM me.

 

[afitz211]

This post is mainly in response to blacktiger057.

The first problem I have with this post is that you are comparing an animal that does not have reasoning with an animal that does. This is why we have obsession is because humans can think themselves to obsession. And to create pornography you don’t need saints and religion you need people who are willing to degrade themselves for some goal (for example prostitution people willing to have sex for money). And your view of the church and sex is a little misguided, because sex in itself is not bad, it’s the irresponsible use of sex. The church loves sex in a committed marriage relationship.
Now for watching women if you want the actual truth I don’t think it’s that hard to go to a mall and watch women. This is not to say that I actually do it but if you are smart it’s not that hard. (Again I find this degrading because it makes a human person nothing more than a car that you look at in the driveway or a slab of meat you look at in the grocery store before you decide to buy it.)
And your argument also says that the religious leaders do not trust human nature. I personally also find this incorrect because it’s not the fact that they do not trust human nature it’s the fact that the clergy wants to promote the best in human nature. They want human nature to be more than it currently is. With what we see in sexual obsessions in society, people like Hugh Hefner making millions off his Playboy mansion and prostitution running rampant in certain U.S. cities it’s not really a mystery why the church does not like the sexual norms of our society.
And the only major problem with your greed argument is that I don’t see how teaching dignity is promoting greed. Dignity is an essential part of human nature that many have forgotten. Now I remember that you also mention some prehistoric tribes and how they aren’t as obsessed with sex. The reason they are not obsessed with sex is that they can go about their daily routine and people get used to seeing each other like that. Now the problem with this for our society is that we cannot go five minutes without seeing some form of sexuality. (for example I’m playing free poker online and I see provocative pictures of a woman advertising a dating site on my footer that’s a little annoying.)
I trust the poster and his nature too but I also trust in his desire to improve himself. He wants to respect the dignity of women and not masturbate and ask guidance on the issue that’s his decision and quite frankly I find a lot of your reasoning backwards. Something that promotes the good cannot promote the bad because Because sex is about love and it’s about having a stable relationship, without a stable relationship we encounter many of the current problems we have in society, STD’s, teenage pregnancy, emotional trauma.
Sex is a privlege and while it is instinctual it is not a toy and not something we can use irresponsibly. Playboy, masturbation, premarital sex and extramarital sex are all forms of using sex as a toy and taking the love out of the equation.
Now the religious norms have not created our world situation, maybe indirectly by people who do not agree with the religious norms. People that don’t agree with the struggle and don’t want to struggle. But the thing with living a chaste life is that it is a struggle. God never said that it would be easy only that it would be worth it. (yes I did steal this from a user’s sig I don’t know which one though.)
I think the major thing that your post misses is dignity. You miss the point of dignity and it’s really sad. Dignity is also an essential quality of human nature. And while you’ll probably respond by stating that my view of dignity is a misinterpretation of “the church’s” view of greed I cannot agree with you. To a cynic that might be what it amounts to but to the faithful, the hard work that our Church does promoting dignity and a high quality of human life is something that none of us should ever forget and we should always be thankful for it. Remember dignity, it’s essential for good human relations. And yes it might sound like a broken record but it’s something that I want to instill in discussions about sexuality.

P.S. If you want to know the Catholic view of sexuality read the theology of the body.

Peace,

 

[TruthSkr]

Having practiced NFP throughout our marriage I am well aware of all the frustrations that can come with it. While there have been times that I want to be intimate with my wife and she does not, it is something that I just “deal with” and move on. Honestly, I do not know “how” I do this, but I have not had a struggle with it. I am not tempted to masturbate during those times nor am I in a position to try and “force” my wife to be intimate.

That is awesome! So Dr. Smith is really right. Because you have been practicing NFP for so long you do not struggle. You just deal with it and move on. That is what I wanted to hear and it is so profound that everyone who has visited this thread should take note. For some time I have thought that much of the trouble many of us have with the obsession with sex has to do with society’s acceptance of illicit sex. We are constantly bombarded by it in the media and are encouraged by the media to think that illicit sex is what we all want and need. Thank God for a church that points us to the truth.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

That is awesome! So Dr. Smith is really right. Because you have been practicing NFP for so long you do not struggle. You just deal with it and move on. That is what I wanted to hear and it is so profound that everyone who has visited this thread should take note. For some time I have thought that much of the trouble many of us have with the obsession with sex has to do with society’s acceptance of illicit sex. We are constantly bombarded by it in the media and are encouraged by the media to think that illicit sex is what we all want and need. Thank God for a church that points us to the truth.

Amen!!

(I am not a big fan of society)

I was going to type more, but you have summed it all up, nothing further to add.

 

[jmj603]

I gave up this awful habit a few years ago, and have, by the grace of the Holy Spirit, been able to avoid it 99% of the time.

You need to give it up 100% of the time.
Do everything in your power to accomplish this.

Also ask God for the grace of conversion.
Some demons only come out through prayer and fasting.
Consider confessing any sinful desires.
Frequent the Sacraments.
Pray every day and don’t skip days.
Seek spiritual direction from a good director.

 

[Mitzzi]

This is one subject that I struggle with. I was raised protestant my whole life and masturbation was never considered a sin. In fact, it was stated many times that if more people did it there would be less affairs. I converted to the Catholic church this Easter, but after all these years of not being taught that it was wrong and now being taught it is wrong…is confusing. If your partner has a lower drive than you do and does not have a problem with you doing it…I don’t see the problem if both are okay with it. Like I said, it’s hard to change when you’ve been taught for many years that it’s okay.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

This is one subject that I struggle with. I was raised protestant my whole life and masturbation was never considered a sin. In fact, it was stated many times that if more people did it there would be less affairs. I converted to the Catholic church this Easter, but after all these years of not being taught that it was wrong and now being taught it is wrong…is confusing. If your partner has a lower drive than you do and does not have a problem with you doing it…I don’t see the problem if both are okay with it. Like I said, it’s hard to change when you’ve been taught for many years that it’s okay.

Again, it is not if you have a problem with it or see it as okay, the Catholic Church does not. Those that are struggling do find it hard to stop all at once and the culpability of this sin is diminished when you have the habit, but it still is a mortal sin.

 

[Smber2c]

Again, it is not if you have a problem with it or see it as okay, the Catholic Church does not. Those that are struggling do find it hard to stop all at once and the culpability of this sin is diminished when you have the habit, but it still is a mortal sin.

Mirror, how exactly can a sin be diminished yet still be a mortal sin? More so, how can we know any act constitutes a mortal sin when we’re lacking knowledge of the induviduals education and degree of willpower lost to this addiction?

It seems that if someone is truely addicted then they don’t really give full consent of the will b/c their addiction compromises their ability to use their full willpower.

I’d agree that it’s always a grave sin, or a sin concerning grave matter; but I don’t think it’s always mortal.

 

[outfctrl]

I made it 5 weeks without Masturbating. 5 WEEKS!
I am single, live alone and recently came back to the Church.

Confession is on my agenda for tomorrow. I thought I was doing pretty good, then it was like I heard a voice and it said " Dont worry, one time wont hurt anything"
I know now, the Devil tempted me,and I gave in. I felt so bad afterwards, knowing I could of resisted, but didnt.

When the Devil tempted Jesus in the desert and displayed before him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, promising, “All these will I bestow on you if you prostrate yourself in homage before me.”
At this, Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! Scripture says: ‘You shall do homage to the Lord your God; him alone shall you adore.’”
At that the devil left him, and angels came and waited on him.

I should of refused, but I was weak. I am such a wretch at times.

 

[jmj603]

I’d agree that it’s always a grave sin, or a sin concerning grave matter; but I don’t think it’s always mortal.

But you don’t know for sure, so shut up! This is a topic where idle speech can be a mortal sin.

There are three criteria for mortal sin: two of them are obviously met (grave matter and full knowledge). What is left is the question, was the act a personal choice or not? Most addicts acknowledge that they normally have at least some control over the timing of the act–that sounds like a personal choice to me. All are called to avoid the occasions of sin.

Jesus didn’t say, “go and don’t worry about repenting from sexual sins if you’re addicted.” Or, “if you want to inherit eternal life, keep the commandments, only if you can though.” Are you saying his understanding of psychology was deficient?

If you fall into mortal sin a thousand times one day, you should go to Confession a thousand times that day.

 

[jmj603]

Confession is on my agenda for tomorrow.

Why not today? Any priest can give you absolution, right?

 

[outfctrl]

Why not today? Any priest can give you absolution, right?

Confessions at my Church are at 430-530 pm tomorrow.
Didnt know you can go anytime. I figured the Priest would get mad or something.

 

[jmj603]

Confessions at my Church are at 430-530 pm tomorrow.
Didnt know you can go anytime. I figured the Priest would get mad or something.

A good priest would stop everything (except Mass) to hear your Confession and give thanks to God for the privilege.

 

[Smber2c]

But you don’t know for sure, so shut up! This is a topic where idle speech can be a mortal sin.

Jmj, yelling at me to “shut up!” is totally uncalled for. There was no previous insults in this thread and there was no need for such tones to be introduced. (in case you are wondering, I do take offense to being belittled in such a way - I’d expect that on ESPN.com’s boards not here)

As you quoted, I wrote:
“I’d agree that it’s always a grave sin, or a sin concerning grave matter; but I don’t think it’s always mortal.”

This is not idle talk as you put it. The rest of my post explained that masterbation has an addictive nature (which is the topic of this thread).

Here’s the CCC on the subject:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

So the last line teaches, to form judgement on someones moral responsibility people, “must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquited habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minumum, moral culpability.”

Now if you choose to disagree with my position that addiction may reduce masturbation to less than being a mortal sin, fine that is your postion and you can hold it. I disagree. To the best of my understanding the CCC would support my postion.
It’s still a sin. It’s still to be avoided. Saying a sin isn’t mortal doesn’t give addicts liscense to do it all they please, it admits they struggle and acknowledges that thier willpower and thus culpability are both reduced.

And no, this isn’t idle speech.

 

[jmj603]

Jmj, yelling at me to “shut up!” is totally uncalled for.

It’s not YELLING, and it’s totally called for. Shut up.

There was no previous insults in this thread and there was no need for such tones to be introduced.

I never insulted you. You insult people who struggle with sin by denying them their culpability.

Here’s the CCC on the subject:

You underemphasized the first part, “To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action” In this case, you have no such ability or, in fact, capacity to judge, for you are not a judge, but are speaking into the aether. People afflicted with this who read it will come from a variety of circumstances, and all will be attracted by the potential erasure of culpability offered by your words.

And again, to reiterate:

“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”

Nothing in CCC 2352’s “lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum” changes the fundamental teaching about mortal sin, found in CCC 1854-1864, which is summed up in one phrase: personal choice. If the grave sin is a personal choice, then it is mortal. Most addicts will admit that the individual acts are in fact personal choices: the legs walk into the bar, the hand reaches for the drink, or the phone to dial the dealer. In all cases, where there is doubt, recourse can be had to Confession.

And no, this isn’t idle speech.

May God have mercy on you then.

 

[Smber2c]

It’s not YELLING, and it’s totally called for. Shut up.
I never insulted you. You insult people who struggle with sin by denying them their culpability.

You underemphasized the first part, “To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action” In this case, you have no such ability or, in fact, capacity to judge, for you are not a judge, but are speaking into the aether. People afflicted with this who read it will come from a variety of circumstances, and all will be attracted by the potential erasure of culpability offered by your words.

May God have mercy on you then.

JMJ, you used an exclaimation point the first time, that generally means either yelling or some agitation. Secondly it’s rather childish to tell me to ‘shut up’ a second time after I let you know that I found it insulting.
I do hope God has mercy om me, if fact I count of His having mercy on me cause I’m not worthy of much. But I’m trying and I’m recieving His graces through frequent reception of the sacraments…

You emphasised, "“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”
I absolutely agree. The “action” of masturbation is always gravely disordered.
However, a gravely disordered action need not always be the result of a mortal sin. If a man is completely drunk out his mind and then has sex with a sheep. The act of beastiality is certainly gravely disordered, but the man having very little to no understanding of what he was doing was not even capable of moral sin once drunk and without reason (though his getting himself drunk is a totally different story).

The CCC clearly explains that ‘immaturity, habit, anxiety, and phychological/social factors’ can “lessen, if not even reduce to a minumum, moral culpability” for masterbation. This only affects the person doing the act; the act of masterbation itself is still gravely disordered and it’s degree of disorder is neither reduced nor lessen in any way.

As for my ability to judge…I’m not and I didn’t. I’m saying that it is a possibility that culpibility of masterbation is reduced for people with the above circumstances, to deny this is to deny the CCC. Judgement on individual cases is not my place and I would not/do not presume to make those judgements - nor should you.

And lastly if my posts present those struggling with the sin a ‘variety of circumstances’ it is only because the Catholic Church in her teachings does so. People are to be handed truth, and in this case truth means that their culpability of masterbation may be “lessened, if not even reduced to a minimum”.
This doesn’t make masterbation acceptable. It makes certain instances of masterbation less of a sin (as in mortal —> venial). Any addiction is still to be fought and with God’s blessings eventually overcome.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Mirror, how exactly can a sin be diminished yet still be a mortal sin? More so, how can we know any act constitutes a mortal sin when we’re lacking knowledge of the induviduals education and degree of willpower lost to this addiction?

It seems that if someone is truely addicted then they don’t really give full consent of the will b/c their addiction compromises their ability to use their full willpower.

I’d agree that it’s always a grave sin, or a sin concerning grave matter; but I don’t think it’s always mortal.

Please read my post again, I said that the culpability of the sin is diminished, not the sin itself. We are in agreement. Very good posts by the way!