Sex Addiction

[TruthSkr]

This is one subject that I struggle with. I was raised protestant my whole life and masturbation was never considered a sin. In fact, it was stated many times that if more people did it there would be less affairs. I converted to the Catholic church this Easter, but after all these years of not being taught that it was wrong and now being taught it is wrong…is confusing. If your partner has a lower drive than you do and does not have a problem with you doing it…I don’t see the problem if both are okay with it. Like I said, it’s hard to change when you’ve been taught for many years that it’s okay.

Mitzzi,
I totally sympathize with what you are feeling right now. For many years I was an absent member of the church. I came back about 4 years ago as the result of a crisis in my life. I made a decision at that time that I was going to come back the right way and follow all the church’s teaching, but I needed to understand some of the teachings that didn’t make sense to me. The two subjects that most challanged me were masturbation and artificial contraception. I just couldn’t understand what the problem was with them, but I felt I needed to learn the truth. So I joined a bible study group at my local church which led me to Dr. Janet Smith’s CD, “Contraception, Why Not” and Christopher West’s book, “The Good News About Sex and Marriage”. Those two sources singlehandedly changed 40 years of disbelief into being a disciple for Christ. Please get them and listen/read. As for my personal experiences that reinforced my beliefs I can tell you that while I engaged in “self gratification” it led me to pornography and a self centered attitude about sex that made my desires more important than my wife’s. Since I changed my attitude and gave up the bad stuff my relationship with my wife greatly improved and I can honestly tell you that the hard work involved in giving up self centered sex is most assuredly worth the effort. Good luck to you. Never stop seeking the truth.

 

[jmj603]

If a man is completely drunk out his mind

I don’t understand the correlation. The moral situation you cite refers to the effects of drink, not the habit of alcoholism. A vicious act is worse than a vice.

The CCC clearly explains that ‘immaturity, habit, anxiety, and phychological/social factors’ can “lessen, if not even reduce to a minumum, moral culpability” for masterbation.

The sin itself remains objectively mortal. If compelled to masturbate at gunpoint, all Catholics are called to choose death, regardless of force of acquired habit, psychological/sociological factors, anxiety or immaturity.

All sins require three conditions in order to be mortal: grave object, full knowledge and complete consent. Complete consent is defined by CCC 1859 as “a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice”. The litany of potentially mitigating factors provided by the Catechism in the section on masturbation you cited all relate to consent, and must be understood in light of CCC 1859. The mere presence of a habit, or anxiety, or psychological problems, or social pressure, or lack of affective maturity does not mean that the next time the person commits the act he will not commit a personal mortal sin. It will be an objectively mortal sin in any case.

Judgement on individual cases is not my place and I would not/do not presume to make those judgements - nor should you.

The OP asked for posters to exercise judgment on an individual case. Subsequent posters also brought up other individual cases.

And lastly if my posts present those struggling with the sin a ‘variety of circumstances’ it is only because the Catholic Church in her teachings does so.

We don’t get off the hook that easily. There are many teachings of the Catholic Church which, presented incompletely or out of proper context or at the wrong time or in the wrong way, could lead to scandal. We all need to exercise prudence and consideration in the apostolate.

 

[super64]

Pax Christi,

All of you have good information and (name removed by moderator)ut. People sharing their stories; trials and tribulations, what works and doesn’t work.
I found Smber2c’s comments in post #7, to be sincere and I could relate. The grace of God working in him, to help him as well as others, is something I find encouraging.

jmj603 Quote:

*Originally Posted by Smber2c
I’d agree that it’s always a grave sin, or a sin concerning grave matter; but I don’t think it’s always mortal. *

But you don’t know for sure, so shut up! This is a topic where idle speech can be a mortal sin.

JMJ603, you have used poor judgement in your choice of words. No matter how you see it, that language and tone is uncalled for. This is a good topic and the discussion is benefical to many here, so please keep it civil.

Scott

 

[jmj603]

This is a good topic and the discussion is benefical to many here, so please keep it civil.

If by beneficial you mean, you now feel comfortable masturbating without going to Confession, then perhaps I should have been clearer in my post to my friend Smber2c. Reading his post, that is what I felt. The last thing I would want is for him to go through life committing the same error again, especially with his offline friends. Because then souls may go to Hell, and Jesus will be upset.

You understand, I’m saying this with a civil and measured tone. If when you read my civil speech, you hear the bellowing voice of an angry man, perhaps it is your prejudice which is the problem? Certainly there is no such thing as “tone” in written language.

When you meditate on the words of Jesus, you see Him say things like, “it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement”, and you have to realize that he’s saying this with great love in his heart, and a voice breaking with love, hoping to win people back to Him, because He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. A lot of people can’t stand this honest love, and they misinterpret His words as fundamentalism or hatred. But the words are from Jesus. This is our religion. This is our Faith. This is why we are here. Not just to enjoy our chat, but to listen to Him.

And certainly we are not here on these threads to defend ourselves and our conduct. The question of pastoral prudence of advice on masturbation, which I was discussing with Smber2c, is at least tangentially related to the OP’s topic. The question of forum etiquette is, thankfully, off topic.

 

[raphieboy]

Dear TruthSkr,
I too have the same struggles as you. I’ve only been trying to abstain for about 6 months and it is not easy. Too make matters worse, I am gay, so there is not chance for me to release the sexual urges I feel. I have two thoughts about this problem. While I truly believe that people can be sex addicts (be it intercourse, pornography, masturbation, whatever), there is help out there to try and deal with it. Like an alcoholic or drug addict, the cravings never go away, but we can learn to deal with them as best we can. For those of us who are not “addicts” in the chemical/physiological sense, this is what Christ meant when He said “Take up thy Cross.” Possible solutions that I’ve developed for this are try and think about the feelings of failure and disappointment you feel after you’ve given in before you let yourself give in again. I can tell you, once you have succumbed it is twice as hard to get back on the wagon. The other thing that helps me are praying to St. Michael the Archangel, by saying his Chaplet daily and calling on him when I’m stuggling and the best help to me so far, praying to Our Lady of Perpetual Help, she is very powerful and has not let me down yet. That is not to say that we may not fall again. Jesus fell with His cross three times, to show us that the failing isn’t falling, it’s failing to get up again! Try as hard as you can to avoind the situations that will lead you most to fail, and be truly contrite and penitent when you fail and take to Christ in confession. Remeber, He is always ready to forgive those who contritly ask to be forgiven. Pray for me and I will pray for you. While you’re there say a prayer for those in Purgatory as well, we’ll hopefully end up there ourselves. Good luck!

 

[Riley259]

Actually, I did read the “Good News About Sex and Marriage” a few weeks ago. It was a wonderfully informative and enlightening book. I believe that everyone should read it. So I do get it that sex is about so much more than orgasm, but when it comes right down to it there is still the daily grind of dealing with sexual tension during periods of abstenance. Even though I am 60 years old, the “new abstenance” in my life has left me feeling like someone with the libido of a 20 year old. Doesn’t this get any easier with time?

I heard a quote from a priest who responded to a question similar to yours: Does it get any easier? The priest’s response was that temptations of the flesh do indeed end…about 7 minutes after you die. The struggle is life-long I’m afraid but if you stay faithful to Christ then you’ll be ok.

 

[Riley259]

Dear TruthSkr,
I too have the same struggles as you. I’ve only been trying to abstain for about 6 months and it is not easy. Too make matters worse, I am gay, so there is not chance for me to release the sexual urges I feel. I have two thoughts about this problem. While I truly believe that people can be sex addicts (be it intercourse, pornography, masturbation, whatever), there is help out there to try and deal with it. Like an alcoholic or drug addict, the cravings never go away, but we can learn to deal with them as best we can. For those of us who are not “addicts” in the chemical/physiological sense, this is what Christ meant when He said “Take up thy Cross.” Possible solutions that I’ve developed for this are try and think about the feelings of failure and disappointment you feel after you’ve given in before you let yourself give in again. I can tell you, once you have succumbed it is twice as hard to get back on the wagon. The other thing that helps me are praying to St. Michael the Archangel, by saying his Chaplet daily and calling on him when I’m stuggling and the best help to me so far, praying to Our Lady of Perpetual Help, she is very powerful and has not let me down yet. That is not to say that we may not fall again. Jesus fell with His cross three times, to show us that the failing isn’t falling, it’s failing to get up again! Try as hard as you can to avoind the situations that will lead you most to fail, and be truly contrite and penitent when you fail and take to Christ in confession. Remeber, He is always ready to forgive those who contritly ask to be forgiven. Pray for me and I will pray for you. While you’re there say a prayer for those in Purgatory as well, we’ll hopefully end up there ourselves. Good luck!

Very inspiring words for everyone who struggles - thanks!

 

[super64]

jmj603 If by beneficial you mean, you now feel comfortable masturbating without going to Confession, then perhaps I should have been clearer in my post to my friend Smber2c. Reading his post, that is what I felt. The last thing I would want is for him to go through life committing the same error again, especially with his offline friends. Because then souls may go to Hell, and Jesus will be upset.

Certainly not jmj603. Smber2c may not understand that grave sin *is *mortal sin, but you seem to fail in understanding that people can and have commited sinful acts without fully understanding what they are doing and that has a bearing on whether they will be held accountable to the fullness of God’s Divine judgement. I can not see his soul or anyone else’s soul to know how much they’re trying to avoid sin or not, or for that matter how much they understand.

I read his post differently then you I guess. It sounded to me that people who have true addictions or mental problems, perhaps, don’t have the same will or ability to deal with issues as those without an addiction or mental problem.

Although, I would never walk up to a stranger and tell him or her to shut-up because they misunderstood or misstated a concept, theory or an idea. Especially if they were being civil to start with. I would never walk into a room filled with mental patients and scream at them to shut-up. So much for love and charity. Well sounds like you might be friends offline anyway, that’s cool:thumbsup: That’s great that you wish to help him.:clapping:

What I find benefical is the fact that we can discuss this issue in a civil manner,because, this is a serious problem for many men in our culture. It may be benefical in other ways for different people though. Such as how people deal with their addictions. What sort of prayer life do they have. Resources available for people. Support groups, etc…

I hope this helps

Pax Christi

 

[Smber2c]

you have no such ability or, in fact, capacity to judge, for you are not a judge

As for my ability to judge…I’m not and I didn’t. I’m saying that it is a possibility that culpibility of masterbation is reduced for people with the above circumstances, to deny this is to deny the CCC. Judgement on individual cases is not my place and I would not/do not presume to make those judgements - nor should you.

The OP asked for posters to exercise judgment on an individual case. Subsequent posters also brought up other individual cases.

Your logic though these posts is very strange. First, you say I can’t judge. Then I say I don’t. Then you say that we’re supposed to judge …let’s just say what’s true. Regular humans like us don’t know people’s souls, so we can’t judge souls. We can see and understand actions, so we can judge them through the truth and guidance God provides us in His scriptures and Church.

If by beneficial you mean, you now feel comfortable masturbating without going to Confession, then perhaps I should have been clearer in my post to my friend Smber2c. Reading his post, that is what I felt.

JMJ ironically you claim on this thread that in writing there is no such thing as tone (which is simply not true: webster.com/dictionary/tone Tone- style or manner of expression in speaking or writing). It may be that in reading my posts you somehow felt my tone exonerated masterbation’s sinfulness. I ask to you please read them again. Never in this thread or in any have I directly or thru suggestion claimed masterbation is anything less than undeniably sinful. Venial sins are still wounds to Christ and anything be a laughing matter. Just because I am defending that under certain conditions masterbation can be a venial sin, that in no way mean I encourage it or pretend it’s unimportance.

All sins require three conditions in order to be mortal: grave object, full knowledge and complete consent. Complete consent is defined by CCC 1859 as “a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice”. The litany of potentially mitigating factors provided by the Catechism in the section on masturbation you cited all relate to consent, and must be understood in light of CCC 1859. The mere presence of a habit, or anxiety, or psychological problems, or social pressure, or lack of affective maturity does not mean that the next time the person commits the act he will not commit a personal mortal sin. It will be an objectively mortal sin in any case.

Interesting points because your first line in this quote directly contradicts your last line.

If premise #1 is: “All sins require three conditions in order to be mortal: grave object, full knowledge and complete consent.”

Then premise #2 cannot be, “It will be an objectively mortal sin in any case.”

You just explained (in #1) ALL sin require 3 conditions be be mortal. So, any sin would then be not mortal if it didn’t meet conditions in #1. Thus #2 must be false. (well unless #1 is false - but we can’t have both )

I think I’ll go start a moral sin thread on this to get better clarity on this.

 

[jmj603]

Your logic though these posts is very strange. First, you say I can’t judge. Then I say I don’t. Then you say that we’re supposed to judge

You can’t judge these particular sins venial, you have no capacity to do that, because 1st) there is not enough evidence provided that they are, and because 2nd) you are not in the position of pastor under CCC 2352. You have been asked to exercise judgement on an individual case, which means that your post is seen as a form of judgement, so you must refrain from acquitting the subject unjustly or usurping the position of pastor described in CCC 2352.

…let’s just say what’s true.

I’m not lying here.

We can see and understand actions, so we can judge them through the truth and guidance God provides us in His scriptures and Church.

OK, let’s read Genesis 38:7-10 again.

JMJ ironically you claim on this thread that in writing there is no such thing as tone (which is simply not true: webster.com/dictionary/tone Tone- style or manner of expression in speaking or writing).

It sounded like what was meant was vocal inflection.

It may be that in reading my posts you somehow felt my tone exonerated masterbation’s sinfulness.

Perhaps, in which case wouldn’t you say that the tone you interpreted from my advice would be an appropriate response?

Venial sins are still wounds to Christ and anything be a laughing matter. Just because I am defending that under certain conditions masterbation can be a venial sin, that in no way mean I encourage it or pretend it’s unimportance.

A venial sin is the second worst thing anyone can possibly do. But a mortal sin is infinitely worse than a venial sin. It would be better for the entire universe to cease to exist than for one person to commit one mortal sin.

If premise #1 is: “All sins require three conditions in order to be mortal: grave object, full knowledge and complete consent.”

Then premise #2 cannot be, “It will be an objectively mortal sin in any case.”
…
I think I’ll go start a moral sin thread on this to get better clarity on this.

Don’t bother with the thread. Objectively mortal = objectively grave = sin w/grave object. This is why we say things like, “abortion is objectively a mortal sin”.

 

[jmj603]

I would never walk into a room filled with mental patients and scream at them to shut-up.

But if one of them was killing another, you would try to get him to stop, right? Scandal is worse than murder, because it kills the eternal soul.

Enough. This is not a thread about me and Smber2c. If we have relationship issues to work out, we can do it ourselves. Thanks.

 

[super64]

Objectively mortal = objectively grave = sin w/grave object. This is why we say things like, “abortion is objectively a mortal sin”.

Symber2c,

Masterbation is always ‘objectively a mortal sin’ just as quoted by jmj603. Whether a person commits ‘actual sin’ does not change the objectivity of the matter. It’s a mortal sin in its nature, but did you know it was a mortal sin? Apply the three conditions that constitutes sins to be mortal:

Grave object (matter) - Masterbation, murder, rape, etc.

Full knowledge - Being on Catholic Answers forum , Reading the Bible and the Catechism,etc.

Complete consent - Thinking about doing it, speaking about how you want to do it, then doing it and regreting that you did it.

Disordered in its nature, knowing its wrong and then commiting the act. = Mortal sin ----> time to see the priest in confession.

I will pray for you. Peace.

Hey jmj603, your killing me…shut-up! Just kidding :hug1:

Have a great day,

Scott