Sex before Marriage believers?

[TheWarriorMonk]

Sex makes people feel good, but the reality of the situation is that a married couple has to deal with a whole host of issues, which boils down to living with another human being with different needs than your own and dealing with everything life throws at you. Unmarried couples don’t have to make such decisions at that level, and IMHO having sex simply helps push those other issues aside.

“Trying out” someone for marriage does not prepared one for what comes after marriage. That’s very evident to anyone married for a decade or more. People tend to push off advice given by their more experienced brethren when they don’t want to hear it, but nevertheless it won’t change the outcome.

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by manualman >>
The church doesn’t need to provide such guidance since social science data already conclusively demonstrates that those who conscienciously refrain from premarital sex before marriage have FAR lower rates of divorce and irreconcilable marital conflicts than those who had sex with others before marrying.

Something that I feel the need to point out here is this…The correlation here might be coincidental. Without actual study information it’s impossible to say…

However - I suspect that there is a deeper cause and effect here than just premarital sex. I suspect that the actual correlation is with the overall moral belief system of the people involved - of which avoiding premarital sex is one component.
Those predisposed to avoid premarital sex are also more likely to be predisposed to reject divorce as an option - except in extreme cases.

I bring this up because I think it important for the OP to recognize that compatibility - and stability - in a marriage is a very broad based thing taking in a whole host of issues of which marital intimacy is just one.

Peace
James

 

[TheHolyGhost]

A married couple dont love each other because the sex is good. The sex is good because the couple love each other. No need to “try out” anything.

 

[josh987654321]

I think Bruised Reed has misunderstood Madelayna. She is saying that she wants to try out sex with a possible future husband, not that she wants that person to try her out. She is apprehensive about finding herself permanently trapped in a sexually-unsatisfying relationship. Quite a legitimate concern!

To be sure, the Church condemns sex before marriage, but this proscription is often not very helpful to a young Catholic because life decisions in this area involve weighing the pros and cons of various options against one another. More helpful to Madelayna would be instruction from the Church as to which is worse/better: to remain a virgin until marriage but possibly divorcing or being unfaithful later on; or experiencing sexual relationships before marriage but then remaining faithful in a single marriage throughout her life.

To be sure, premarital sex, infidelity and divorce are all sins, but which is the worst? For the Church, both murder and masturbation are mortal sins, but surely the former is worse than the latter. Madelayna sees the complexity of the moral choices before her and realizes that absolute moral principles that leave no room for human judgment are not helpful.
Wallis Reid

What?

Bruised Reed was spot on with what he said.

She might be saying that ‘she’ wants to try out sex with a possible future husband, but the reality is that she is the one allowing guys to ‘try her out’ not the other way around, Bruised Reed was spot on with that post.

Also, did you read my previous post? What you have said is all backwards.

I suggest you read my previous post here - #32

Or go here - focusonthefamily.com/about_us/focus-findings/marriage/premarital-sex-and-divorce.aspx

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

A few thoughts here: first of all, the choice here is not between “try before you buy and have a sexually satisfying marriage” and “enter marriage in the dark and end up divorced”. That is a false dichotomy, and the research that has been done shows that the conventional wisdom is false–people who engage in sex before marriage are more likely to divorce, even if they end up having sex only with the person they end up marrying. It is not quite certain why this is so–I suppose that several reasons are involved here. Most people do not regret waiting until marriage; “I wish I had tried them out before marriage” is pretty uncommon, and “I wish I had slept with other people before them to gain experience” is even more uncommon (and also very rude!). On the other hand, many people do regret not waiting.

Also, the point made in an early reply here is worth considering. This is something usually leveled at men, but it goes both ways really. When you “test” someone, remember that they, too, may have been tested by previous partners. Not only that, but they are testing you, too! What if your prospective spouse decides that you aren’t that good? The testing is never one-sided. We all know about the car analogy, but you don’t get to test-drive a new car every single time, and the new “cars” in this scenario don’t just keep rolling off the assembly line.

Finally, you must remember that it (sex outside of marriage, and with someone who is not your spouse) is a sin, even if you don’t feel that it’s a big deal (which I can understand even if I do not agree with that).

Amen

 

[josh987654321]

Thanks Wallis. I do kind of feel like some of the answers aren’t taking into account my age.

You are very young, how was this even possible? I wonder what your parents were doing, do they know? are they naive about it?

When you are 18 the part of your brain that deals with future consequences has not fully developed yet, you are in the here and the now and by doing this you are making very immature decisions in which will cost you big time latter down the track.

Like I said in my first posts, some things you cannot take back!

I think the younger you are and the less knowledge of Catholicism you have, makes it harder to make the right choices in the Catholic Church’s eyes. And I’m glad someone recognizes my concerns about “good sex” in a marriage. It seemed that people were pretty much saying “find the one you’ll promise to live with, wait, and if sex isn’t good then deal with it” or “sex will always be good with the one you’re suppose to be with.”

Have you read this yet? If not, please do so, it’s only short - focusonthefamily.com/about_us/focus-findings/marriage/premarital-sex-and-divorce.aspx

I guess infidelity would be worse and that’s definitely not what I’d want. This is all very complex. It’s not like picking an ice cream flavor, this is a life choice. I want to make the right decision but hearing “Be Catholic, or not” isn’t the most helpful. But so many of you are really helping me, so thank you very much!

And thank you Wallis. You’ve made me realize this isn’t just black and white.

It absolutely is black and white, I can guarentee you, that by doing what you are doing, you are greatly! increasing your chances of any marriage in the future to fail.

Also allowing guys to “test drive” you or “try you out” so to speak, it means you will attact the guys who simply want the pleasure they can get from you rather than the person you are.

As freiabereinsam said, none ever say “I wish I had tried them out before marriage” or “I wish I had slept with other people before them to gain experience” or “I’m glad I didn’t wait” Instead it’s all “I wish I had remained a virgin until marriage” or “I wish I had waited.”

You need to think about what you are doing, if you continue it, you will reap the consequences big time latter down the track.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

This is so very important to realize. The thinking that it is important to try each other out sexually, while it can seem to make sense, is unfortunately flawed, and it is not just Church teaching which shows us that, but empirical science. If you want to have a better chance of your marriage succeeding then you want to limit sexual activity outside of marriage as much as possible. The less you engage in sexual activity outside of marriage the greater the chance is that your marriage will succeed.

Absolutely

 

[josh987654321]

Amen. And as a relatively young married man, I can say that sex within marriage with a spouse you love and have vowed to be with before God is much more satisfying than any fleeting sexual pleasure we can find outside of marriage.

Too often, society confuses pleasure with happiness. Pleasure* is not *the same thing as happiness. Sexual intimacy before marriage may give you the former, but it cannot give you the latter.

Well said.

 

[josh987654321]

“Trying out” someone for marriage does not prepare one for what comes after marriage. That’s very evident to anyone married for a decade or more. People tend to push off advice given by their more experienced brethren when they don’t want to hear it, but nevertheless it won’t change the outcome.

True, Most people want, not the truth, but validation, reinforcement for their thinking right/wrong, they seek out the people and information that support their conclusion and the only things they want to hear are the things that make them feel good about who or where they are.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Thankatroop12]

For people who quote the Bible saying that fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. I’ve read somewhere that it could be a translation issue and the New Testiment was written in Greek and that the Greek word for fornicator also means harlequin which is in line with the OT which says with prostitution comes wickedness and does not really touch pre-martial sex. Just asking for opinions.

 

[RedFox0456]

For people who quote the Bible saying that fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. I’ve read somewhere that it could be a translation issue and the New Testiment was written in Greek and that the Greek word for fornicator also means harlequin which is in line with the OT which says with prostitution comes wickedness and does not really touch pre-martial sex. Just asking for opinions.

From what I understand, there was no word in Greek that accurately describes premarital sex. If premarital sex is okay in the bible, then why does Paul suggest that those who cannot abstain get married. He goes on to say it is better to marry than to burn. So, I’m going to say that a mistranslation is not legitimate.

 

[quiet52]

…I do kind of feel like some of the answers aren’t taking into account my age. I think the younger you are and the less knowledge of Catholicism you have, makes it harder to make the right choices in the Catholic Church’s eyes.

Please do not use your age as an excuse for not knowing about “right choices.” You mentioned in your initial post in this thread that you have not yet been confirmed. You have “less knowledge of Catholicism” because you have not yet commited to know more about the faith. In fact, every Catholic has an obligation to increase their understanding about, and to live, the faith, throughout our lives. The purpose is to become holier and ever closer to God, and to help others to know Him and be close to Him.

I have known teens who have diligently studied the faith, and who know much more about the Church’s teachings about faith and morals (which are the teachings of Jesus Christ) than many if not most Catholic adults. Too many adults think they “know enough” after their confirmation in 8th grade – so, they generally remain content throughout their lives in having an 8th grade understanding (and various misunderstandings) of the faith, and not an adult understanding. At great peril, for the sake of their souls and/or the souls of their children.

It seems to me - and please forgive me if I am wrong - that you are intent on resisting the Church’s teachings about sexuality before you understand them.

I notice that you (and other posters) have not commented about my previous post encouraging you to talk with a priest about the issue of pre-marital sex and about preparing for Confirmation. There is a reason I would like you to seriously consider this.

In the last 50 years, too many people, including Catholics, have given higher priority to sex than to God. Sex has become an icon while God has been dismissed, or at least relegated to a low tier when it comes to what’s important in their lives.

The vocation of marriage is a beautiful and powerful gift from God, when a couple allows God to partner with them in their relationship. Marriage is God’s idea. So is sex and sexuality. Within marriage, sex is noble and holy when it is “other” centered, unitive and pro-creative. Yes, holy. When the spouses allow their love of God help them to love each other. When they love with their whole being, physically, emotionally and spiritually. Testing the merchandise before marriage is objectifying a person and is not a holy endeavor. It is self-centered and destructive. It is negating sex as God’s gift; sex becomes a matter of performance or “something to do” rather than two people sharing the fullness of their beings (which requires commitment).

My wish for you is that you lay aside for now your disagreements with Church teaching, and make it a priority in your life to diligently study the faith and to live in harmony with Christ. This is a matter of prioritizing, discipline and commitment, but if you do this, you will not regret it. Participating in Confirmation-preparation will be a good way to begin learning. Trusting in the graces of the sacrament itself – the gifts of the Holy Spirit – will strengthen your resolve to live in accord with God’s will (not “blind” obedience, but freely-chosen, joy-filled and awe-inspired obedience).

Our relationship with God is the most important relationship we have (or at least it should be). It is a natural and good thing at your age to think about and prepare for marriage. But we each belong to God before we “belong” in any other relationship. **Married couples who are strong in faith allow God to be a partner in their marriages. Marriages without God and which are steered by worldly values are the marriages which do not last. ** Other posters have explained well why your concerns about test-driving a potential spouse are misplaced. Please trust their wisdom. We cannot expect to make the “right choice” based on false worldly values, such as “good sex” before marriage. I want so much for young adult Catholics to know the beauty of the faith, because if they are close to God, they are more likely to seek partners who appreciate the beauty of the faith. Our chaotic world needs to witness married couples who reflect God’s radiant love.

 

[fred_conty]

Please do not use your age as an excuse for not knowing about “right choices.” You mentioned in your initial post in this thread that you have not yet been confirmed. You have “less knowledge of Catholicism” because you have not yet commited to know more about the faith. In fact, every Catholic has an obligation to increase their understanding about, and to live, the faith, throughout our lives. The purpose is to become holier and ever closer to God, and to help others to know Him and be close to Him.

I have known teens who have diligently studied the faith, and who know much more about the Church’s teachings about faith and morals (which are the teachings of Jesus Christ) than many if not most Catholic adults. Too many adults think they “know enough” after their confirmation in 8th grade – so, they generally remain content throughout their lives in having an 8th grade understanding (and various misunderstandings) of the faith, and not an adult understanding. At great peril, for the sake of their souls and/or the souls of their children.

It seems to me - and please forgive me if I am wrong - that you are intent on resisting the Church’s teachings about sexuality before you understand them.

I notice that you (and other posters) have not commented about my previous post encouraging you to talk with a priest about the issue of pre-marital sex and about preparing for Confirmation. There is a reason I would like you to seriously consider this.

In the last 50 years, too many people, including Catholics, have given higher priority to sex than to God. Sex has become an icon while God has been dismissed, or at least relegated to a low tier when it comes to what’s important in their lives.

The vocation of marriage is a beautiful and powerful gift from God, when a couple allows God to partner with them in their relationship. Marriage is God’s idea. So is sex and sexuality. Within marriage, sex is noble and holy when it is “other” centered, unitive and pro-creative. Yes, holy. When the spouses allow their love of God help them to love each other. When they love with their whole being, physically, emotionally and spiritually. Testing the merchandise before marriage is objectifying a person and is not a holy endeavor. It is self-centered and destructive. It is negating sex as God’s gift; sex becomes a matter of performance or “something to do” rather than two people sharing the fullness of their beings (which requires commitment).

My wish for you is that you lay aside for now your disagreements with Church teaching, and make it a priority in your life to diligently study the faith and to live in harmony with Christ. This is a matter of prioritizing, discipline and commitment, but if you do this, you will not regret it. Participating in Confirmation-preparation will be a good way to begin learning. Trusting in the graces of the sacrament itself – the gifts of the Holy Spirit – will strengthen your resolve to live in accord with God’s will (not “blind” obedience, but freely-chosen, joy-filled and awe-inspired obedience).

Our relationship with God is the most important relationship we have (or at least it should be). It is a natural and good thing at your age to think about and prepare for marriage. But we each belong to God before we “belong” in any other relationship. **Married couples who are strong in faith allow God to be a partner in their marriages. Marriages without God and which are steered by worldly values are the marriages which do not last. ** Other posters have explained well why your concerns about test-driving a potential spouse are misplaced. Please trust their wisdom. We cannot expect to make the “right choice” based on false worldly values, such as “good sex” before marriage. I want so much for young adult Catholics to know the beauty of the faith, because if they are close to God, they are more likely to seek partners who appreciate the beauty of the faith. Our chaotic world needs to witness married couples who reflect God’s radiant love.

Ditto.

Too many babies without mommies and/or daddies. Put yourself in their place.
Not good for you or them.

Men dump women who are easy…no respect.
Give yourself a break, and don’t go thru a lot of agony.

Wish you the best, and the love of Mary most pure.

 

[PatriceA]

True, Most people want, not the truth, but validation, reinforcement for their thinking right/wrong, they seek out the people and information that support their conclusion and the only things they want to hear are the things that make them feel good about who or where they are.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

This is what I’ve thought this whole thread, that the OP is looking for justification/validation in their line of thinking. Also thought perhaps someone was trolling to provoke CAF and not really looking for advice or the truth.

 

[JRKH]

This is what I’ve thought this whole thread, that the OP is looking for justification/validation in their line of thinking. Also thought perhaps someone was trolling to provoke CAF and not really looking for advice or the truth.

I can’t say that I have had any sense of “trolling” in this thread.

Certainly when we come to a place like this we would first like to hear “validation” - no one wants to put themselves out there on some idea or other and be told they are wrong.
However - my sense of the OP was that she had given the matter some thought and wished to obtain a wider (name removed by moderator)ut on the matter.
This she has received.

What she (or anyone looking in) does with this information is strictly up to her.

Just my 2 cents

Peace
James

 

[RedFox0456]

I can’t say that I have had any sense of “trolling” in this thread.

Certainly when we come to a place like this we would first like to hear “validation” - no one wants to put themselves out there on some idea or other and be told they are wrong.
However - my sense of the OP was that she had given the matter some thought and wished to obtain a wider (name removed by moderator)ut on the matter.
This she has received.

What she (or anyone looking in) does with this information is strictly up to her.

Just my 2 cents

Peace
James

I agree. Who wouldn’t hope to hear agreement about how they look at something? The real question is simply how someone responds to answers that conflict with that view. I feel OP has been respectful and patient in the thread. The next question is how she will use the information gleaned from this discussion.

 

[JamesATyler]

Madelayna, questions are fine. Sure, there are many people who discourage them in the name of obedience and will become insulting and/or abusive to you in short order if a quick and simple answer doesn’t satisfy you. That’s true of all kinds of people in many different groups everywhere.

It would be better if “marriage then sex” seemed the proper order to you naturally. But it isn’t. “Sex then marriage” seems the proper order to you. From your short post I will make an analysis. I will call enjoyable sex, “The Sex” and I will call your boyfriend, “Your Love.” You state that if “The Sex” is not delivered that you may have to consider dismissing “Your Love.” I do not think you are being totally honest about how important “The Sex” is to you. Because you have decided to try out “The Sex” before marriage and because you show signs of doubt about being a part of the Church because of its teaching about per-marital sex, I think it is valid to view “The Sex” as being equal in importance to both “Your Love” and The Church. You may indeed turn away from both to pursue “The Sex”.

You see, there is already a divorce present. The divorce is between “The Sex” and “Your Love”. Normally, sex is enjoyable because it is with “Your Love”. He may not last as long as you like, or his penis may not be the shape and size you thought was ideal, or he may seem awkward and clumsy but all of that you’d be willing to accept because he is “Your Love”. In that case “The Sex” is just sex. What is really important is the one you love and you wouldn’t let him go because he’s not the best in bed.

The problem you face is a common one. You have to deal with your relationship to “The Sex”. All fornicators pursue it. For you, it has gotten you in bed outside of marriage and lead you to question whether you should be a part of Jesus’s Church. Surely, it will lead you to other beds if you pursue it. At least you won’t go blindly. Thank the Lord who has mercy on us.

My advice, don’t wait to long to ask “Your Love” to propose. Else, he may get the idea you tried him out and were not happy with it. (If he knows your reasoning behind having sex with him). Have a long engagement if you don’t want to walk down the aisle just yet.

 

[JRKH]

Madelayna, questions are fine. Sure, there are many people who discourage them in the name of obedience and will become insulting and/or abusive to you in short order if a quick and simple answer doesn’t satisfy you. That’s true of all kinds of people in many different groups everywhere.

It would be better if “marriage then sex” seemed the proper order to you naturally. But it isn’t. “Sex then marriage” seems the proper order to you. From your short post I will make an analysis. I will call enjoyable sex, “The Sex” and I will call your boyfriend, “Your Love.” You state that if “The Sex” is not delivered that you may have to consider dismissing “Your Love.” I do not think you are being totally honest about how important “The Sex” is to you. Because you have decided to try out “The Sex” before marriage and because you show signs of doubt about being a part of the Church because of its teaching about per-marital sex, I think it is valid to view “The Sex” as being equal in importance to both “Your Love” and The Church. You may indeed turn away from both to pursue “The Sex”.

You see, there is already a divorce present. The divorce is between “The Sex” and “Your Love”. Normally, sex is enjoyable because it is with “Your Love”. He may not last as long as you like, or his penis may not be the shape and size you thought was ideal, or he may seem awkward and clumsy but all of that you’d be willing to accept because he is “Your Love”. In that case “The Sex” is just sex. What is really important is the one you love and you wouldn’t let him go because he’s not the best in bed.

The problem you face is a common one. You have to deal with your relationship to “The Sex”. All fornicators pursue it. For you, it has gotten you in bed outside of marriage and lead you to question whether you should be a part of Jesus’s Church. Surely, it will lead you to other beds if you pursue it. At least you won’t go blindly. Thank the Lord who has mercy on us.

My advice, don’t wait to long to ask “Your Love” to propose. Else, he may get the idea you tried him out and were not happy with it. (If he knows your reasoning behind having sex with him). Have a long engagement if you don’t want to walk down the aisle just yet.

James - this is very nicely expressed.

Peace
James

 

[chipeto]

I do believe all those things. I feel a great connection with God. I feel love for God. I find him as comforting and loving. And I’ve always been fascinated by the stories in the bible.

That is wonderful, but being Catholic entails more than that.

But I didn’t know I had to agree with every single thing the Church teaches. It just feels a little oppressing knowing I have to either “agree completely or go away.”

Here’s the thing: either the Church teaches the truth, or the Church is a lie. If the Church is not preserved from error by the Holy Spirit, then the whole thing is a sham. Why would you want to be a part of that?

The teaching of the Church is not, for believers, a matter to be agreed or disagreed with. It is a matter of faith. We don’t have to understand all that the Church teaches, but we do have to give assent. This is itself an act of love.

For me, it is a matter of integrity. If I did not believe in the claims of the Church, then I could not, in good faith, remain.

 

[chipeto]

I guess we’re not really “free to choose” as Catholics then huh? I didn’t realize how much must be given up.

We are all free to choose, but we can’t dictate the terms to God.

Indeed God asks that we give our entire lives to him, just as He gave his for us.