Sex drive question

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Wow, all the replies! I’m so glad to hear that I’m not alone.
So, since the majority of us agree that there is more to female desire and chastity than is commonly believed, does anyone know of any good Catholic/Christian resources that deal with this?
And to those gentlemen who are arguing that male desire is indeed stronger: Unfortunately, we do not have any Tiresias who can settle the debate once and for all: it must surely be enough to note that many women do experience similar struggles with lust and/or easy visual stimulation, and that it would be excellent if some of the wise and Christian experts on chastity would consider this and formulate some much-needed advice.
Jade what do you see as the limitations of traditional theology re chastity (as opposed to the humbug that less than well educated (young/inexperienced?) parish priests sometimes come out with?

I have always found it helpful to distinguish between the “acts of a man” (or woman) and “human acts” if its the alleged “mortal sinfulness” that concerns?
 
*Quote:
Originally Posted by SusanneT

So men endlessly complain of frustration or struggle against sin and women can often only express their sex drive if they are happy to fall pregnant. *
Quote:
*Originally Posted by LeRapt78

I’m not sure I understand the last sentence - there has been a dramatic increase in female promiscuity over the past 50 decades precisely because contraception has allowed women to separate sex from procreation.*

What I meant was that in the context of Catholic marriage for women in the fertile time of life, their “sex drive” is usually highest around ovulation, but whether or not they can express these desires is dependent upon whether at that time they are happy to get pregnant. So many women may be sexually ‘driven’ but supress the ‘urge’ because they do not want to become pregnant - or are unable to endulge it because as a couple they are using NFP.

Your point about the pill and promiscuity is absolutely right and another arguement against it !
 
She has not to be controled by her hormons, in order to want to make love, only, during her ovulations : the absolute procreationsim is too animalistic. As human being, the wife, the female of human specie **has to find the balance between, the fact to want sex for having a baby and sex for bonding of love without wanting a baby. **: moral obligation.

According to Humanae Vitae, the couple, thus the wife too has a moral obligation to conscientize sex for baby, or for bonding of love with, only, pleasure, in the respect of natural moral law.
 
She has not to be controled by her hormons, in order to want to make love, only, during her ovulations : the absolute procreationsim is too animalistic. As human being, the wife, the female of human specie **has to find the balance between, the fact to want sex for having a baby and sex for bonding of love without wanting a baby. **: moral obligation.

According to Humanae Vitae, the couple, thus the wife too has a moral obligation to conscientize sex for baby, or for bonding of love with, only, pleasure, in the respect of natural moral law.
I was not suggesting that women only want to to make love during ovulation or purely to make babies - fare from it. But this Thread is basically arguing as to whether men or women have a higher sex drive and whether women’s sex drive is under recognised by the Church or in this forum.

My point is that most women’s sex drive is related to their hormonal cycle, they do feel more interest in sex around ovualation, but for Catholic women of child bearing age whetherr or not they would like to have sex with their husbands, they have to consider they consequences and for many however much they would like to fear of pregancy stops them expressing this desire.

And I suspect many women rather resdent being labled a frigid just because at the time when they would most like to, as a couple sex if off the agenda.
 
Please folks, no need to argue!
And Blue Horizon: I was just wondering about resources with practical advice rather than philosophy. Of course I realize that traditional theology is very true, but it is mostly philosophy and “orders” rather than simple practical advice on how to obey and stay chaste.
 
Please folks, no need to argue!
And Blue Horizon: I was just wondering about resources with practical advice rather than philosophy. Of course I realize that traditional theology is very true, but it is mostly philosophy and “orders” rather than simple practical advice on how to obey and stay chaste.
I agree we all have sex drives, some of us (male and female) are very strong. It’s important that we remain true to His Church and remain Chaste; using NFP instead of contraceptives; and might I add…help encourage more better, stronger marriages.
 
So in the end your strong universalised view of your own limited experience is backed up by…nothing solid you are prepared to source and obectively debate. 🤷

To make my case I see no need to prove anything more other than to observe that my own equally valid (and equally limited) experience/understanding differs considerably from yours.

This is because I am not the one trying to universalise my limited experience. This issue is far more complicated than your pure biology thesis allows for.
One thing I’ve learned about Internet forums is that it is extraordinary rare that anyone every changes their mind. I’ve changed exactly one mind in 16 years (relating to politics). I’m more than happy to debate. But I debate at their own level. If someone challenges and expects me to research scientific studies (which is easy to do given my science training), I expect them to live up to their own challenge. I don’t subscribe to “do as I say, not as I do,” since it is simply a waste of my time.
 
Instead of letting someone know who is struggling and they are not alone and offering them comfort and support, this has turned into a debate of who has the stronger sex drive. You know, it really doesn’t matter so much if males or females have a stronger sex drive, if the have an equal sex drive, or if it is a strictly individual matter. We need to encourage each other and comfort each other when struggling or sad. It seems many just are more concerned about being right then helping someone who asked for help.
 
Instead of letting someone know who is struggling and they are not alone and offering them comfort and support, this has turned into a debate of who has the stronger sex drive. You know, it really doesn’t matter so much if males or females have a stronger sex drive, if the have an equal sex drive, or if it is a strictly individual matter. We need to encourage each other and comfort each other when struggling or sad. It seems many just are more concerned about being right then helping someone who asked for help.
👍👍

So agree. As someone accused of being uncharitable numerous times I have to ask “Where’s the charity?” 🤷
 
So in the end your strong universalised view of your own limited experience is backed up by…nothing solid you are prepared to source and obectively debate. 🤷
Since I have a few minutes while I’m printing out a few hundred pages, and since it may benefit he OP, here are some articles. Some also have references which you may also research:

carlsonschool.umn.edu/Assets/71520.pdf

science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/men-have-stronger-sex-drive1.htm

medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=147734

webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare
 
Instead of letting someone know who is struggling and they are not alone and offering them comfort and support, this has turned into a debate of who has the stronger sex drive. You know, it really doesn’t matter so much if males or females have a stronger sex drive, if the have an equal sex drive, or if it is a strictly individual matter. We need to encourage each other and comfort each other when struggling or sad. It seems many just are more concerned about being right then helping someone who asked for help.
TMG I am suggesting that if we understand causes we can better understand our situation and even more helpful ways to deal to it (if its too late for ourselves it may not be so for our children). Ambulance at top of cliff rather than 10 times the support energy needed at bottom of cliff. (Of course the world needs both :o).

I find the simplistic biology-only based view that men start hungering for sex (every 3 days or so when if they aren’t getting any, just like not eating food for a day or so) detrimental to the effort to promote strategies/values that can have a positive effect on significant numbers of boys who may well be able to eventually sublimate such energy into more socially integrated directions. Of course human nature is varied and such education/upbringing will have less apparant effect on those who are more biologically “hard-wired”. One can never be sure (e.g. Augustine).
 
Since I have a few minutes while I’m printing out a few hundred pages, and since it may benefit he OP, here are some articles. Some also have references which you may also research:

carlsonschool.umn.edu/Assets/71520.pdf

science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/men-have-stronger-sex-drive1.htm

medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=147734

webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare
Thanks VP, while I may not fully agree with your view (I haven’t looked at your sources yet) the fact you have provided sources means you are to be taken seriously. (Your wisdom above is of course correct but if one doesn’t even buy a ticket chances are certainly zero 👍).
 
TMG I am suggesting that if we understand causes we can better understand our situation and even more helpful ways to deal to it (if its too late for ourselves it may not be so for our children). Ambulance at top of cliff rather than 10 times the support energy needed at bottom of cliff. (Of course the world needs both :o).

I find the simplistic biology-only based view that men start hungering for sex (every 3 days or so when if they aren’t getting any, just like not eating food for a day or so) detrimental to the effort to promote strategies/values that can have a positive effect on significant numbers of boys who may well be able to eventually sublimate such energy into more socially integrated directions. Of course human nature is varied and such education/upbringing will have less apparant effect on those who are more biologically “hard-wired”. One can never be sure (e.g. Augustine).
Maybe so, but is this the place for that? I think the place for that would be maybe a thread of it’s own. People gave up on actually helping the OP to have a debate. That I think is wrong and there is no reason this debate cannot be moved to a new thread.
 
I find the simplistic biology-only based view that men start hungering for sex (every 3 days or so when if they aren’t getting any, just like not eating food for a day or so) detrimental to the effort to promote strategies/values that can have a positive effect on significant numbers of boys who may well be able to eventually sublimate such energy into more socially integrated directions. Of course human nature is varied and such education/upbringing will have less apparant effect on those who are more biologically “hard-wired”. One can never be sure (e.g. Augustine).
I agree that it is bunk and I’m a man, but it’s not entirely bunk. Men are visual creatures and thus are stimulated visually. It is possible for a man to go 3 days without sex and not be “constantly obsessing on it” or “hungering for it” the key is, is that men have to be honest with themselves and realize watching women in yoga pants, is probably not the best way of curbing your sex drive.
 
Since I have a few minutes while I’m printing out a few hundred pages, and since it may benefit he OP, here are some articles. Some also have references which you may also research:

carlsonschool.umn.edu/Assets/71520.pdf

science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/men-have-stronger-sex-drive1.htm

medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=147734

webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare
Since I have a few minutes while I’m printing out a few hundred pages, and since it may benefit he OP, here are some articles. Some also have references which you may also research:

carlsonschool.umn.edu/Assets/71520.pdf

science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/men-have-stronger-sex-drive1.htm

medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=147734

webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare
ValPal, I want to say before my reply to this post that I understand you’re a bit outnumbered here and I hope it doesn’t seem as though the replies are attacking you or your personal opinion. As another poster said, I don’t think this thread is meant to become some a sort of competition over who has the higher sex drive (I don’t think a definitive answer can be reached as long as double standards are in place), but it simply seeks to combat a certain stereotype and assure the many women who don’t fit into it that there is nothing abnormal about their natures.

I read this link you provided,
carlsonschool.umn.edu/Assets/71520.pdf
and I what I noticed was that the entire premise of the authors’ conclusions mostly glossed over the psycho-social aspects of female desire as if they were of little significance. It appeared to take a very superficial view of current sexual activity to make its case and yet neglected to delve much into opposing perspectives which are not quite as noticeable. It also did not even touch upon the cause-and-effect of external stimulation that factors into the frequency of male vs female sexual thought.

In the second link, the conclusion was also based upon the same model asking men and women for a direct admission regarding their sexual desire without taking into consideration the psycho-social barriers that may impede an honest answer. It’s not to say that all women who participate in these questionnaires are lying, but it’s quite possible that many of them are voicing programmed answers. Meaning, women may attempt to predict what their answers will say about them as moral women, and answer according to how they think they are supposed to answer, based upon what they feel is a more proper or expected response. Even among my closest friends (who, although they are more cultural rather than devout Cathoilics, are still what society would deem to be “ladies”) the most revealing questions/concerns regarding sexuality have come about when we were enjoying a few glasses of wine. In other words, women are often more honest during these types of conversations when their inhibitions are down.

And as far as the question “Actual number of sexual partners: Men, six to eight. Women, four [source: Kinsey Institute].” goes. . . . .there’s a popular phrase with regards to number of partners that says “Men lie up, women lie down”. This phrase addresses the idea that the telling of a lie must include a motive for personal gain, which in this case would be lack of condmenation or increased perceived value to the opposite sex. These intangible motives are created by a society that assigns worth to individuals, and not by any biological occurrence. I would stand by my original thought that almost everything goes back to societal nurture, rather than nature.
Please folks, no need to argue!
And Blue Horizon: I was just wondering about resources with practical advice rather than philosophy. Of course I realize that traditional theology is very true, but it is mostly philosophy and “orders” rather than simple practical advice on how to obey and stay chaste.
OP, I think that regardless of whether or not the philosophy equally addresses the sexual nature of both men and women, the advice given is good and can be applied to both. Attempting to view the opposite gender as a child of God, as opposed to viewing them as a tool for sexual release, respecting the sexual act within the context of a marriage in which both parties sacrifice for the other, thinking of intimacy as a unitive act rathern than as a sole opportunity for pleasure, distracting oneself toward more productive tasks when the urge presents itself, etc. - this is the same kind of thinking women can follow as well.

Is that what you’re looking for? I’m not sure - it seems as though you’re asking for something more specific, but I don’t know what that is. Could you elaborate with examples?
 
OP, I think that regardless of whether or not the philosophy equally addresses the sexual nature of both men and women, the advice given is good and can be applied to both. Attempting to view the opposite gender as a child of God, as opposed to viewing them as a tool for sexual release, respecting the sexual act within the context of a marriage in which both parties sacrifice for the other, thinking of intimacy as a unitive act rathern than as a sole opportunity for pleasure, distracting oneself toward more productive tasks when the urge presents itself, etc. - this is the same kind of thinking women can follow as well.
👍
 
What I meant was that in the context of Catholic marriage for women in the fertile time of life, their “sex drive” is usually highest around ovulation, but whether or not they can express these desires is dependent upon whether at that time they are happy to get pregnant. So many women may be sexually ‘driven’ but supress the ‘urge’ because they do not want to become pregnant - or are unable to endulge it because as a couple they are using NFP.

Your point about the pill and promiscuity is absolutely right and another arguement against it !
Thanks for the clarification - I took it to mean you thought women only had a drive while they were ovulating.
 
ValPal, I want to say before my reply to this post that I understand you’re a bit outnumbered here and I hope it doesn’t seem as though the replies are attacking you or your personal opinion. As another poster said, I don’t think this thread is meant to become some a sort of competition over who has the higher sex drive (I don’t think a definitive answer can be reached as long as double standards are in place), but it simply seeks to combat a certain stereotype and assure the many women who don’t fit into it that there is nothing abnormal about their natures.
My opinions on matters such as these are simply formed on the data…studies, my own experiences, the opinions of others (which the internet is great at providing), and simple common sense. When everything points overwhelming toward a particular conclusion, I am likely to concur with that conclusion. In this matter, concluding men’s sex drives are higher is simply a foregone conclusion.

That’s not to say it’s a competition, or one particular sex is better or worse. It’s just the way it is. This information is useful in understanding the how the different sexes respond in certain situations, and those responses are consistent with the sex-drive conclusions.

People tend to insist their opinions are correct, and force/reinterpret the data to fit. That’s not helpful to understanding the issues.
 
Well put ValPal. From a purely primitive and biological standpoint, men are ordered towards polygamy while women are ordered towards hypergamy. Men are ordered towards spreading their genes to as many mates as possible, while women get just one crack at a time, so they’re on the lookout for the best mate possible. However, once they find someone that fits the bill, the switch is flipped into the “ON” position quite hard, especially during peak fertility of a cycle.

So it makes sense then that men would generally have higher sex drives on a given day because they’re never shifting between hormones that flip on and off. We men are always on, barring psychological or medical issues.

But I don’t think there’s any question that A) there are exceptions to the rule B) women don’t naturally have a LOW sex drive, just lower than men during parts of their cycle C) the idea that women do and should have naturally low sex drives is a ridiculous cultural misconception and D) when women are “ON” they are really, really “ON.”
 
ValPal, I want to say before my reply to this post that I understand you’re a bit outnumbered here and I hope it doesn’t seem as though the replies are attacking you or your personal opinion. As another poster said, I don’t think this thread is meant to become some a sort of competition over who has the higher sex drive (I don’t think a definitive answer can be reached as long as double standards are in place), but it simply seeks to combat a certain stereotype and assure the many women who don’t fit into it that there is nothing abnormal about their natures.
Exactly! 👍
In the second link, the conclusion was also based upon the same model asking men and women for a direct admission regarding their sexual desire without taking into consideration the psycho-social barriers that may impede an honest answer. It’s not to say that all women who participate in these questionnaires are lying, but it’s quite possible that many of them are voicing programmed answers. Meaning, women may attempt to predict what their answers will say about them as moral women, and answer according to how they think they are supposed to answer, based upon what they feel is a more proper or expected response. Even among my closest friends (who, although they are more cultural rather than devout Cathoilics, are still what society would deem to be “ladies”) the most revealing questions/concerns regarding sexuality have come about when we were enjoying a few glasses of wine. In other words, women are often more honest during these types of conversations when their inhibitions are down.
You hit the nail right on the head! I think that’s what a lot of us women do consciously or unconsciously. We know what we’re supposed to say and don’t want to look like anything less than a “lady” when asked by strangers or for surveys or whatever, but when women are among friends and all females and relaxed, and discussing the topic, the truth comes out. 😃 Women’s sex drive is closer to the amount of men’s sex drive than what people think or what tradition says. People can argue for ever which one has the stronger sex drive, but I say generally for sure women’s sex drive is a lot closer to, if not equal to, men’s sex drive than society has taught in the past and some individual women’s sex drive can be stronger than some individual men’s sex drive, and a lot of women have equal drive as men. 🙂
 
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