Sex Starved Husband

[fpt]

Does she know her sexual obligations toward him? Does she know her sexual duties toward him? Does she know the notion of marital debt? Does she know her own dimension of conjugal lover? Does she know the sexual rights of her husband on her person?

Does she agree with the fact that the marital act is a remedy to the concupiscence, for him? Does she agree with the fact of being, in a certain way, his “female doctor” in order to regulate and to canalize his sexuality of male?

 

[LongingSoul]

Sort a kind a. In order to survive and thrive, human beings evolved requiring and desiring communities, not situations where males roamed around mating with women whenever she was fertile and then wandering off while the woman was pregnant for 9 months in the wild, had her kid on a rock, and then raised it on her own. This sort of scenario might happen in the 21st century, but it certainly didn’t happen in the 21st century BC. People are feeble and her chances of mortality in such a situation would be very high. Pretty much 100% unless she had a stable, easy food source. This instead meant men being in ongoing monogamous or polygamous relationships with women, but from the very beginning monogamy would have been encouraged due to the roughly equal ratio of the sexes. If a man has three wives, A) it means a high chance of an uncharitable pecking order among the wives, both from the husband and from each other, B) it means two other men in the village are getting shafted. Cultures where monogamy was the norm (if not totally universal) were the happier and more successful ones.

I’m not convinced men have an inherently more demanding sex drive than women, but psychologically, they are more ‘ambitious’ and readily accessible to it, because they’re not the ones that carry and birth the breastfeed the kid. Women are more conservative and protective of their bodies, and this is readily observed outside of the context of sex as well. They obsess about their health, their weight, their appearance, etc, in areas where many men couldn’t care less. There is a high demand for a woman to feel secure and loved before she is willing to tap into her sexuality. All people’s bodies are a temple to the Lord, but ontologically this is more obvious for the female (vulnerable creation) than for the male (not-vulnerable Creator)

On the flip side, you don’t say that the reason men don’t talk about their feelings is because they don’t have them. Men are built to psychologically safeguard such things and are very demanding before unraveling that aspect of them to other people. They need to be strong and unreadable. The feelings are there, but they are less accessible, perhaps even to themselves. This is why if you go through the history of the Family Section, you’ll find more female rants on emotional needs. Men don’t talk about it so much to other people. They find it uncomfortable, unless you’re me, because other men are weak but I have no feelings and am strong caveman, hence I have no need to talk about such petty things.

At the end of the day it is nature and not culture that determines the needs of the sexes though. Culture can facilitate some fluidity of gender because technology and progress is taking care of some gender specific roles and allowed women to have careers outside the house for example and men to be child rearers. But I really think that dismantling the ‘general rules’ that have surrounded gender identity has been detrimental to society. This idea that the differences between males and females are not inherent has run its course in society. It was a social experiment that didn’t work. For example. there’s a big move in my area to go back to separating boys and girls in the school rooms and to rebuild the gender divide for the sake of maximising learning styles and bringing back the mutual respect in recognising and acknowledging the inherent differences between males and females. Gender is not as fluid as what was being suggested.

Of course men have emotions and women do have sex drives, but as a general rule, males sexual need takes a higher priority and females emotional needs take a higher priority. That’s not shameful to admit. The genders need each other and that’s a good thing to acknowledge. It has become a weakness or a sin to admit need these days. A male can naturally provide a safe protected environment for a female to exist without the natural fears she has for herself and her offspring. A female can provide an environment for a male to be vulnerable and experience his softness. But to say that that means that they are inherently the same by nature tends to deny something that being human, we have to value. That is that the sexes need each other to experience the fullness of being a human. That’s the beauty of the ‘general rule’. It provides a basis of truth to grow from in relationships.

Another point is that you can see this is somewhat unraveling in modern culture with the breakdown of exclusive, permanent marriage and the advent of contraception. Female violent crime is on the rise, infidelity is soaring, effeminate men are up. The factors that guided prior behaviors in healthy marriages aren’t non-existent, but they have been weakened.

And it could be that much of the confusion is stemming from a lack of appreciation of God given femaleness or maleness and our inherent qualities.

 

[fpt]

She has to agree with the fact that the marriage is a sexed and sexual contract and a sexed and sexual institution.
She must respect her own sexual vows that were taken the day of marriage, in his favor. She does not have to shrug her shoulders about this issue. This topic is very important in the marriage.
She has the moral obligation to solve this conjugal issue with her husband via the dialogue and treatments. She has to try to make some efforts and some sacrifices, in his favor, sexually speaking: she must try to satisfy normal sexual needs of her husband, and by principle, she must not reject her husband, sexually speaking and physically speaking. She has to care the sexuality of his husband: the sexual sins of her husband are, also, her businesses. By principle, she (her own person) has to be a remedy to the concupiscence of her husband, she has to offer him and to give him her body.

Her unilateral refusal of practicing the marital act with her husband, without some fair, real, objective and reasonable reasons, can be immoral, for her. What is the position of her confessor? What is the position of her spiritual director? What are her reasons?

The fact of identifying the causes and the reasons is a moral obligation, for her, for him and for them. She has to work on, he has to work on, they have to work on.

 

[fpt]

Many women absolutely do consider their husbands’ needs as important as their own needs. But I would again point out that the generalization that women need emotional intimacy and men need physical intimacy is too simple to be true. Women have physical needs and men have emotional ones. Christians really need to be honest and open about this. Wives will desire sexual relations with their husbands, and sex is not only about him or for him. It is about the joining of TWO bodies and the intimacy between TWO souls. Now men may be more or less chatty, depending upon their personalities, but emotional intimacy is not solely dependent upon speech. Being able to be silent with each other, or being allowed to have feelings that are not belittled, or being able to work side-by-side with someone, those are emotionally intimate moments, too. Besides that, the physical intimacy of sexual relations can enhance the emotional intimacy, and emotional intimacy can lead to the spouses making more opportunities for physical intimacy. It is all wrapped up in the same package: married love.
As an aside, I see it often asserted that women must have their emotional needs meet BEFORE being able to engage in sexual relations. But it feels like sexual relations is being viewed as something she allows if she is happy enough. But shouldn’t sexual relations actually BE A REASON for her own joy, too, and NOT just the reward for him making her happy? Maybe I have misunderstood others’ posts…But I see plenty of opportunity for emotional/physical intimacy in the meeting of each other’s needs. If sexual relations is approached slowly and tenderly, and not insistent upon one’s own timing or preferences, but is instead other-seeking, then there is no discernable order to whose needs have priority.
Husbands can entice their wives. Wives can entice their husbands.
Husbands can please their wives. Wives can please their husbands.
Each can be accepting of the other, with all the flaws of their bodies, and still say “I love you and you are sexy”.
Each can be accepting of the other’s fertility, and remember what the purpose of sex IS (hint: pleasure is a motivator, but not its purpose). That is more complicated.

**The theory of four causes of the marital act is not simple.

The formal cause of the marital act; the material cause of the marital act, the motrice cause of the marital act or called the cause of changing of the marital act; the final cause of the marital act???

Essence versus existence; objectivity versus subjectivity; absolu versus relativity; institution versus contract???

Causes of the marital act ; goals of the marital act ; purposes of the marital act; intentions of the marital act; objectives of the marital act ; ends of the marital act; finalities of the marital act???

Nothing is simple. **

When I read threads like this, I often wonder if the couple in the OP were caught in the trap of believing the culture’s lies about sex, and if they were ever told the truth. Sex is not just a guy thing. If a woman believes that lie, how will she ever learn that she is meant to experience joy from and a longing for the marital embrace? If a man believes that lie, how will he ever slow down enough to not hurt her and to see that she enjoys it? Our minds are powerful things, and our perception becomes our reality. So we should always tell the truth, as Catholics, who possess the fullness of the faith and thousands of years of discussion on such matters.

 

[Galbin]

This was similar to my situation many years ago (14 to be exact). Except in our case my wife would not consent to counseling, so I went by myself. The psychologist and then the priest eventually said “you need to get her to attend…” but my wife responded to me that she had “replaced me” with time spent on the small business she started from home, and her friends, and sisters, etc.

When I confronted her with “why?” she responded “you’re never here, don’t make enough money, side with your parents instead of me” etc. In retrospect she had some good points, but only when I could see it from her perspective. So I said “ok I accept your premise, and take 80% of the responsibility for this situation.” Unfortunately, that did not resonate with her. She wanted me to take 100% of the blame.

Anyway, I drifted around as a sex deprived/starved husband for awhile. I found outlets for my sexual needs that I am/was not proud of. However, can’t deny that I paid for a woman’s company 25 or so times over three or four years. Believe it or not, it wasn’t just for sex, it was for companionship and tenderness. It was a convincing lie for me.

Thankfully, I went to confession once, then regularly, and over time I was able to get all of that behind me, with prayer and contemplation. I’ve abstained for nearly a decade. Sadly, my wife and I have no relationship other than her leaving the bills for me to pay. She left the Church when she replaced me, and only attends now for a few holidays.

I found renewed meaning in the Church and now spend most of my free time in endeavors related to catechesis, volunteering, etc. My chief regret is that my wife and I cannot reconcile and my love for her (as she behaves now) is waning. I pray for her and us and leave the rest to the Lord.

Sorry for the discourse but my point is that it is possible for there to be many versions/sides of the same story. There probably isn’t an objective truth for those that are immersed in it, only “him vs her” which makes it difficult to articulate everything–even one’s own perception. I know we’re both wrong, but it takes two to tango. I still pray for divine inspiration and intervention: For anything is possible with the Lord.

I am so sorry you are going through this. I seem to be the exception here, but I deeply believe it is a spousal duty to have regular sex. And I think that goes for BOTH husband and wife. So I am so sorry that your wife has not been there for you at all. Do you no longer live with your wife? Is she no longer Catholic?

 

[awsiukiewicz]

:bigyikes: but there are some misguided and uncharitable replies on this thread.

OP, I feel your pain (not in a clintonian sense), because I am where you are. My wife doesn’t “shrug her shoulders” and refuse me, but since she returned to the Church, she has been making it very obvious that she doesn’t like it. She will acquiesce, but I have found begging for sexual relief to be very degrading. Also, her dislike for the process causes major problems for me when it comes to finishing the act, because a big part of my enjoyment is knowing that my partner (and I’ve only ever had one partner) is also enjoying it, and if she’s not enjoying it, I have to sidetrack my mind into other scenarios, or I lose my . . . umm . . . capability. And that is also considered to be a sin.

I go to confession every two weeks, and my priest knows all about my problems. He has told me that this seems to be the cross that I have to carry, and that is the message that I give to you. Bear your cross as well as you are able to, and receive the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist as often as you need to. But don’t fall into thinking that her refusal gives you the right to make it with someone else.

(((manhugs)))

 

[awsiukiewicz]

I am so depressed, my wife doesn’t want sex anymore and doesn’t care that I do.

I do so much for her, I do most between us actually but she is being selfish. She just shrugs her shoulders.

We are both catholics but how do I go my whole life without sex? I am not allowed to masturbate either. I don’t want to just masterbate like when I was a teen but I am desperate, it feels like someone is playing with my bits and walking away, I constatntly feel turned on as its been so long, even waking during the night every night turned on and not being able to sleep. This is the worst feeling.

The feeling of rejection hurts too.

Wiping my wifes bum wouldn’t be enjoyable but if she were ill and I needed to do it then I would out of love for her, I wouldn’t just shrug my shoulders at her and maybe I will have to do that one day if my wife has parkinsons or alzheimers or something like that. Or maybe if I have something like that she wont look after me and just dump me in a hospice.

I cant go to communion when I sin in that way which is at despeperation and she shrugs her shoulders and goes to communion herself.

How am I supposed to get to heaven? why is it so hard for a man, my body constantly telling me to have sex. I either go to hell or I pray for testicle cancer so they get chopped off but then I would be in a different type of depression and I am sure if I told her I had cancer she would shrug her shoulders at that too.

we are in our thirties, I cant go 30/40 years without sex it is impossible.

I don’t know how to pray for this.

I know if I were starving my wife and she wanted it I would be a selfish man pushing her into the arms of another man where she can get love but as she is starving me then I know I will be the selfish one somehow.

:bighanky:

 

[awsiukiewicz]

I don’t agree at all with the “be kind and understanding” because a wife doesn’t enjoy or like having relations…excuse me, but isn’t this grounds for serious concern…lets remind ourselves that sexual relations between husband and wife are a gift…ofcourse the husband should be interested in making “love” to his wife…and not just thinking about himself…but if she just isn’t there for the hand off…(no pun)…she may have problems that might be addressed by a physician…it’s amazing, most of my colleagues at work, without being disrespectufl to their marriage…occasionally will make comments regarding their wifes not being there for them…but. most of these women are older/going through the change…but even then…I don’t believe that husbands should be ignored…sorry…but all of that suck it up…be understanding…pray…come on…I don’t think ‘offereing it up’ in this instance applies…I’;m all about redemptive suffereing and the benefits…but seek counseling…if the flowers…and compliments, public or otherwise don’t facilitate some intimacy…get some professional help is my respectful suggestion…wives are obligated to be there for their husbands just as husbands are to be there for their wives…I will pray for you and your wife my brother…

 

[fpt]

Does she have an idea of constitutive elements of marital vows, of conjugal vows, of nuptial vows and of spousal vows? Her person (her body, her soul and her heart) was given by herself, in a free will, to her husband, the day of wedding. She has obligations and duties toward him and he has rights on her.

The “whys”, the reasons, the factors, the causes, the motives, the intentions, the contexts, the environement, the motivations of the non-practice of the marital act have to be identified, searched, found out by her, by him, by him and her, by him with her, by her with him, via some helpers: medical doctors, nurses, midwifes, psychologists, sexologists, priests, philosophers, theologians, canon lawyers, advisers… etc.

Why is she in this situation? Why does she refuse of practicing this act? What are her reasons? What are her problematics? Why does she refuse to make her duty of female spouse (wife)? Is she a good wife?

What are his own issues and his problematics? Is he a good husband? The reasons can be , also, in his side?

The lack of communication, of romance, of signs of love and of will coming from her and or coming from him…ETC??? Is she radical feminist? Is he radical masculinist? Is she honest with him? Her duty of wife??? Is he honest with her? The responsibility can be in the middle, her and him???

 

[fpt]

Steps:

His own introspection, her own introspection, her questioning by him, his questioning by her, her questioning by a priest, his questioning by a priest, a conjugal questioning by a priest, in presence of him and her.

And after with all other professionals.

 

[fpt]

Does she have an idea of constitutive elements of marital vows, of conjugal vows, of nuptial vows and of spousal vows? Her person (her body, her soul and her heart) was given by herself, in a free will, to her husband, the day of wedding. She has obligations and duties toward him and he has rights on her.

The “whys”, the reasons, the factors, the causes, the motives, the intentions, the contexts, the environement, the motivations of the non-practice of the marital act have to be identified, searched, found out by her, by him, by him and her, by him with her, by her with him, via some helpers: medical doctors, nurses, midwifes, psychologists, sexologists, priests, philosophers, theologians, canon lawyers, advisers… etc.

Why is she in this situation? Why does she refuse of practicing this act? What are her reasons? What are her problematics? Why does she refuse to make her duty of female spouse (wife)? Is she a good wife?

What are his own issues and his problematics? Is he a good husband? The reasons can be , also, in his side?

The lack of communication, of romance, of signs of love and of will coming from her and or coming from him…ETC??? Is she radical feminist? Is he radical masculinist? Is she honest with him? Her duty of wife??? Is he honest with her? The responsability can be in the middle, her and him???

Is she touched by one of several heresies or ideologies concerning the marital act and the corollaries? Is she polluted by wrong intellectual approaches about the regime of the natural moral order of conjugal sexual relationships, between husband and wife? *Is she a modernist wife, religiously speaking? *Why does not she think of being involved, in a certain way, by the sexual sins of her husband?

Is she ill, mentally speaking? Is she sick, physically speaking? Is she honest with her husband about conjugal sex, intellectually speaking? Is she really in conjugal love with her husband (soul, heart and body)? Is she afraid by a new baby?

Sexual emotional issues, sexual affective issues, sexual sentimental issues, sexual physical issues, sexual physiological issues, sexual psychical issues, sexual mental issues, sexual romantic issues, sexual technical issues, sexual moral issues???

 

[MarySB]

https://www.marriagebuilders.com

This is a website you might want to visit. It is endorsed by Retrouvaille, so I think would be sanctioned by the Church.

It should help you get you and your wife get on the right track, together. If you continue to have difficulties after a reasonable time, you can also get online counseling from therapists on this website. Expensive, but worth it.

And Retrouvaille is very good, as well. It will help you learn to communicate better.

Best of luck to you both!

 

[CesarAugustus]

The opinions of a priest matter more to me than a lay person who seems to be equating masturbation to grave sin.

Doctrine and Magisterium matter more than the heterodox opinions of some Priests.

Masturbation is a grave sin. Is in the Catechism.

 

[Galbin]

Doctrine and Magisterium matter more than the heterodox opinions of some Priests.

Masturbation is a grave sin. Is in the Catechism.

So you are seriously saying that masturbation is along the same lines as grave sins like rape, murder, incest etc.? I don’t agree that it is a grave sin unless one is using porn or cheating on their spouse by thinking of another person. Just because something is in the Cathechism doesn’t make it 100% truth. The church has changed its position on many matters over the years after all…

 

[CesarAugustus]

So you are seriously saying that masturbation is along the same lines as grave sins like rape, murder, incest etc.? I don’t agree that it is a grave sin unless one is using porn or cheating on their spouse by thinking of another person. Just because something is in the Cathechism doesn’t make it 100% truth. The church has changed its position on many matters over the years after all…

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

The eternal truths don’t change.

If is part of Catholic doctrine, it has to be believed and followed.

Something is not grave only because secular reasons. Natural Law, Divine Law, triumph worldly understanding of evils.

 

[Galbin]

I don’t just believe things without good reason. That quote doesn’t specify why either. For example, abortion is clearly wrong because it murders a child, and premarital sex is denounced by the church because the union has not been blessed by God.

However I just do not see good reasons against masturbation. Why would men have such high sex drives if masturbation is so inherently evil? After all, if God intended men to have sex daily (as their drive often desires) then he would have made it so that women had equally high sex drives. Yet the reality is that many women don’t. And I also do not believe God would be so cruel as to give men a high sex drive as some sort of test against daily temptation. Especially when we see many posts here where married men get very little sex from their wives!

Furthermore, there are few references to masturbation in the Bible, and the only direct one is Leviticus 15:16, “If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water, and be unclean until the evening”. However, this seems to refer to hygiene and not sin. Jesus certainly never mentioned it as being a great sin.

 

[CesarAugustus]

I don’t just believe things without good reason. That quote doesn’t specify why either. For example, abortion is clearly wrong because it murders a child, and premarital sex is denounced by the church because the union has not been blessed by God.

However I just do not see good reasons against masturbation. Why would men have such high sex drives if masturbation is so inherently evil? After all, if God intended men to have sex daily (as their drive often desires) then he would have made it so that women had equally high sex drives. Yet the reality is that many women don’t. And I also do not believe God would be so cruel as to give men a high sex drive as some sort of test against daily temptation. Especially when we see many posts here where married men get very little sex from their wives!

Furthermore, there are few references to masturbation in the Bible, and the only direct one is Leviticus 15:16, “If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water, and be unclean until the evening”. However, this seems to refer to hygiene and not sin. Jesus certainly never mentioned it as being a great sin.

Is simple. Sexual relations should be open to life.

Masturbation is not procreative.

**“The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.” **

Is contrary to the purpose of sexual relations.

And the purpose is explained in that quote.

 

[Galbin]

Is simple. Sexual relations should be open to life.

Masturbation is not procreative.

So why did God give men such high sex drives then, and from such a young age too?

 

[CesarAugustus]

So why did God give men such high sex drives then, and from such a young age too?

Well, people used to marry younger some decades ago.

But high sex drive is not an excuse for sin.

Also, people can abstain. Because there are urges that doesn’t mean they have to be instantly followed. What about chastity, etc?

 

[CuriousReader]

But high sex drive is not an excuse for sin.

Also, people can abstain. Because there are urges that doesn’t mean they have to be instantly followed. What about chastity, etc?

True, but I’ve always felt that people with low sex drives have unfair expectations about those others of us who are more “amped up.”

I do the best I can with what I’ve got, and I do the best I can to follow the rules, but I simply cannot accept the notion that masturbation is on par with acts of violence.

I’ve struggled, like so many others, with masturbation since–well, I had strong sexual urges from the time I was 3 or 4 years old. (no, I was not molested, or exposed to porn, etc.) . When it really started to happen, around puberty, I felt so horribly, horribly guilty that I would “punish” myself by thinking that I would be punished with “bad luck” for the next 24 hours. I hoped that would somehow break me from doing it.

Punished with bad luck? One day a family pet was killed in a tragic situation–and I blamed my having masturbated the day before, because it had been a Holy Day, and God must have been particularly angry with me.

By the time I got to college, I realized that God wasn’t sending me bad luck. And it was happening so frequently that I gave up on confessing it. I just lived with it.

Then internet porn came around, and suffocated me for many years. I tried, and tried, and tried to quit. Talk about beating oneself up for repeated failures. It takes its toll on the psyche. Yes, I had even been confessing it by now.

My wife has absolutely no interest in sex. At all. She has some problems associated with multiple c-sections and intercourse is too painful for her to do. We have intercourse three or four times per year. We’ve been in this situation for almost 10 years. And I can’t even tell you how many times I justified porn/masturbation/orgasm as simply being my sex life.

For whatever reason, I went cold turkey on Ash Wednesday this year, and have had hardly any interest at all in porn or masturbation or sex of any kind, with anyone, including my wife. I feel totally flat in that regard.

Here’s the thing: last weekend we had a plumbing disaster in the house. In the moments afterward, the first thought I had was one of relief. ‘I’m glad I didn’t masturbate, because it would have been miserable to know that’s why it happened.’

At my age, in my 40s, and I still had a tiny part of my brain convinced that masturbation is so horribly disordered that God is waiting to punish me for it by bursting a pipe in my basement.

You know what’s disordered? That kind of thinking is what’s disordered.

Now—I’m not blaming the Church for implanting that nonsense in my head, nor my parents, nor anyone else. But what I do fault is the general sentiment that a child needs to somehow be held accountable for acting on a natural, God-given impulse.