Sexism Against Men

[edwest2]

Is it ironic you’ve told us that 3 times?

Wait for it… I sense number 4 is just around the corner.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

I suppose one could ask if women are superior to men why is there a gender pay gap. I’ll have to go along with Bucket and say “take the money and suck it up” unless every man is ready to take a cut in pay to average things out.

That was mentioned in the 1970s and no one bothered calling the ACLU. Go figure.

Maybe women should create all-female corporations to get past that. But that would be a positive thing for a radical feminist to do. Overthrowing the Patriarchy takes a while I guess.

Ed

 

[silentfactor80]

I think psychology has a lot to do with this. I read a psych study that found women like women more than men like other men. A lot of it is cultural I think but maybe something more. The fact is that many women cannot be objective when it comes to other women but when it comes to men they have no problem taring us apart for everything we do. Men on the other hand are taught to be logical and weigh everyone by their contributions to society. Women on the other hand get a pass just because they carry babies which most can’t stand doing these days. It is time I think to hold women to the same standard men are held to. And I think it is time for guys to stop with the white knight nonsense and realize that if your “loved ones” don’t value your life then your sacrificing it hurts them more than it helps them.

Here is a link to the study:
apa.org/monitor/dec04/women.aspx

 

[shipwrkd]

The pay gap is highly exaggerated and a result of women’s choices. Look at these articles and learn how that number is actually calculated. They are all reputable sources. All were written by women too except the last link. Dr. Warren Farell wrote the book in the last one and he is a well learned guy and former NOW board member.

Gender Wage Gap May Be Much Smaller Than Most Think
15 Jobs Where Women Earn More Than Men
Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap – and What Women Can Do About It

In the jobs where women earn more than men they earn A LOT more. In some cases as high as 100%. Those men are sucking it up but women complain over 15% which itself is an exaggerated number?? LOL!

The articles say pretty much what you stated in your first sentence. The wage gap may be highly exaggerated but I haven’t seen one shred of evidence that it doesn’t exist. The second article lists 15 jobs in which women make more but how many jobs are there that men make more? I also believe that those articles are only applicable to the United Statees. In many countries, Ali Wentworth would be dead shortly after her article was printed. Then I guess you could always use the “if your so advanced, why can’t you be a priest” card.

 

[silentfactor80]

The articles say pretty much what you stated in your first sentence. The wage gap may be highly exaggerated but I haven’t seen one shred of evidence that it doesn’t exist. The second article lists 15 jobs in which women make more but how many jobs are there that men make more? I also believe that those articles are only applicable to the United Statees. In many countries, Ali Wentworth would be dead shortly after her article was printed. Then I guess you could always use the “if your so advanced, why can’t you be a priest” card.

Pay gaps exists but they don’t exist because of sexism. Men are not responsible for the choices women make. Having kids has A LOT to do with it. Again, if women want to be caretakers sacrifices have to be made. If they don’t then they shouldn’t be mothers. SIngle childless women in big cities earn 8% more than men according to Forbes. Do you see men crying on politicians backs about “sexism?” NO! Also, pay gaps do not exist in every field!!! You cannot generalize the pay gap. You have to look at it on an industry by industry basis. It is not just a simple number. Many factors involved.

Yes most of those articles are about the US but apply reasonably well to Europe. In fact countries like Sweden have made maternity and paternity leave mandatory and that made a big dent in the gap.

I assume you are bringing up the Middle East in you Ali Wentworth would be dead comment. Men in America are not responsible for what the nutcases in the Middle East do to women. Many women in the Middle East are equally nasty to other women as then men. I read one story where a woman prostituted her daughter-in-law for money. That’s sick!

I am not sure what your very last line meant. I don’t claim to “be advanced” and becoming a priest because one feels they are beyond women is not a good reason. Women are part of the flock.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think psychology has a lot to do with this. I read a psych study that found women like women more than men like other men.

I’ll get stoned for saying this, but in my experience, women also hate other women more than men hate other men. And then, there’s that female jealousy thing. I was floored one time when one of my adult daughters commented about how a woman, entering a social thing at which other women are present, immediately sizes up every other woman in the room. As best I could figure it out, some women are visually perceived by other women as likely to be friendly, aggressive, seductive, superior in attitude, spoiled, a big spender, on and on.

“Huh”? I said, not being aware until that moment that such a thing existed. Wondering if my daughter was being just a bit paranoid, I asked a significant number of other women about it, both related and unrelated to me, and got the very same result from every one of them. Some felt moved to comment how little I knew about women to even ask about it.

Men just plain don’t do that regarding other men. To a man it’s foreign.

Something I did learn much earlier in life is that women often pick fights with men in order to gain attention. Men don’t pick fights with women for that reason. Maybe some of this feminist talk is not a whole lot more than that, just kind of displaced.

(Now I’ll start ducking the rain of stones that are surely coming my way)

 

[Nimzovik]

I suppose one could ask if women are superior to men why is there a gender pay gap. I’ll have to go along with Bucket and say “take the money and suck it up” unless every man is ready to take a cut in pay to average things out.

Oh yes? Since women are the preponderance of graduates of Higher Education, perhaps they should ‘suck it up’ and apply Affirmitive Action for men and balance the numbers?

It seems to me that men have been the primary wage earner for untold centuries. Is it not now our turn to stay home and get women off the couch and earn money to support males? Hey!! It is our turn to stay at home and watch -]Oprah/-] Oreilly or what ever. Why should we be the slaves? Let* them* be drafted!

 

[silentfactor80]

Oh yes? Since women are the preponderance of graduates of Higher Education, should they ‘suck it up’ and apply Affirmitive Action for men and balance the numbers?

I would like Affirmative Action for men in nursing too and for male nurses to get the same generous scholarships that are given to women in the sciences.

 

[Nimzovik]

Hear hear!! Yeah!! What about that!

I have talked to many Male nurses. Often they are called upon to ‘lift things’ for the female nurses. It is time for men to be bringing it to the womens and to start complaining regarding Male issues.

And don’t even get me started on circumcision!

I also find it fascinating that none of the male detractors has commented on the links I provided. That is telling too, methinks.

Feminism Is Sexism regards,
Nimz.

 

[Debora123]

Thanks bro.

I’m a dude and this kind of stuff does happen all the time. Know what my solution is? Suck it up. Even a modest protest against it is basically ruins the whole thing that is indeed good about men. Men are supposed to be the shelter in the storm. Men are supposed to the rock that women can rely on. If women or girly men are going to kvetch about us, well that’s life.

Suck it up and leave it with God. Good women understand that men are people too. Our wives are well aware that we’ve got emotions and that we have different ways of dealing with them. We wouldn’t have married them we didn’t feel safe in letting them know that we can be a bit vulnerable too.

So what if popular media gives men a bad rap? They give a lot of single women a bad rap too. Seems like the only type of person who doesn’t get a bad rap are moms. Whatever.

If you want to be a man, you’ve got to not care what the world thinks about you. That attitude also happens to attract women so it’s an extra bonus.

Exactly. Men are meant to be the emotionally stronger gender… the rock. There’s nothing more unattractive to me than whiny men. And I don’t mean men who are emotional and have feelings (I like that). I mean men who go around complaining and play the pity victim card all the time. Sooo unattractive on so many levels.

 

[silentfactor80]

I’ll get stoned for saying this, but in my experience, women also hate other women more than men hate other men. And then, there’s that female jealousy thing. I was floored one time when one of my adult daughters commented about how a woman, entering a social thing at which other women are present, immediately sizes up every other woman in the room. As best I could figure it out, some women are visually perceived by other women as likely to be friendly, aggressive, seductive, superior in attitude, spoiled, a big spender, on and on.

“Huh”? I said, not being aware until that moment that such a thing existed. Wondering if my daughter was being just a bit paranoid, I asked a significant number of other women about it, both related and unrelated to me, and got the very same result from every one of them. Some felt moved to comment how little I knew about women to even ask about it.

Men just plain don’t do that regarding other men. To a man it’s foreign.

Something I did learn much earlier in life is that women often pick fights with men in order to gain attention. Men don’t pick fights with women for that reason. Maybe some of this feminist talk is not a whole lot more than that, just kind of displaced.

(Now I’ll start ducking the rain of stones that are surely coming my way)

Here is another example of sexism against men. Why should a man feel like he is going to be stoned for making an observation about women? Women say stuff about men all time and that’s OK but when the tables turn the stones start flying? I would like a lady to answer that one.

The usual answer goes something like this. “Well not all women are like that…” Well ladies not every guy is your stereotypical alpha male either but that doesn’t stop anyone from generalizing us. In some circles its almost celebrated to stereotype men like Ali Wentworth did. I hope all her dates see that video of hers.

 

[mommamaree]

The pay gap is highly exaggerated and a result of women’s choices. Look at these articles and learn how that number is actually calculated. They are all reputable sources. All were written by women too except the last link. Dr. Warren Farell wrote the book in the last one and he is a well learned guy and former NOW board member.

Gender Wage Gap May Be Much Smaller Than Most Think
15 Jobs Where Women Earn More Than Men
Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap – and What Women Can Do About It

In the jobs where women earn more than men they earn A LOT more. In some cases as high as 100%. Those men are sucking it up but women complain over 15% which itself is an exaggerated number?? LOL!

Here is where we will agree, SilentFactor. Women often take a parallel track in their careers, called the Mommy Track, that leads to a lower salary, but keeps their foot in the door through their childbearing years. It is not something women should complain about. They get greater flexibility and use more benefits in these situations, whereas their male peers are still plugging away at a faster pace, and using less benefits (sick days, parental leave, etc.).
Men who keep up that pace should be compensated fairly. But this is often not taken into account at all by people who complain. But what do I know? I opted out entirely to stay home and raise my kids and be flexible about moving for the sake of my husband’s career.

 

[silentfactor80]

Exactly. Men are meant to be the emotionally stronger gender… the rock. There’s nothing more unattractive to me than whiny men. And I don’t mean men who are emotional and have feelings (I like that). I mean men who go around complaining and play the pity victim card all the time. Sooo unattractive on so many levels.

I detect an certain implication in your post there. We aren’t just meant to be the emotionally strong, we are neurologically. That does not mean however that we are women’s emotional punching bag and have to tolerate being disrespected. You can call us “whiny men” here but to be quite honest the main reason the guys are speaking up here is we are tired of being trashed by women and society at large. Do you like it when guys pour on the woman jokes? Do you like it when men take women for granted? This is about decency and human dignity. Both are Catholic principles. Women seem to think decency and human dignity only applies to them and the guys here would like you to know it works both ways.

Of coarse there is nothing more unattractive to you than “whiny men.” They remind you life isn’t all about the woman and her needs. Yes, shocking revelation many women can’t handle. Also, after enough weathering and abuse rocks tend to crack and down comes everything that took them for granted!

 

[shipwrkd]

Pay gaps exists but they don’t exist because of sexism. Men are not responsible for the choices women make. Having kids has A LOT to do with it. Again, if women want to be caretakers sacrifices have to be made. If they don’t then they shouldn’t be mothers. SIngle childless women in big cities earn 8% more than men according to Forbes. Do you see men crying on politicians backs about “sexism?” NO! Also, pay gaps do not exist in every field!!! You cannot generalize the pay gap. You have to look at it on an industry by industry basis. It is not just a simple number. Many factors involved.

Yes most of those articles are about the US but apply reasonably well to Europe. In fact countries like Sweden have made maternity and paternity leave mandatory and that made a big dent in the gap.

I assume you are bringing up the Middle East in you Ali Wentworth would be dead comment. Men in America are not responsible for what the nutcases in the Middle East do to women. Many women in the Middle East are equally nasty to other women as then men. I read one story where a woman prostituted her daughter-in-law for money. That’s sick!

I am not sure what your very last line meant. I don’t claim to “be advanced” and becoming a priest because one feels they are beyond women is not a good reason. Women are part of the flock.

Wow, there’s a lot of testosterone running in this thread. I’ll go on a limb and guess most are single. In a true marriage, the decision to be a stay at home Mom or work is usually made by both partners, at least that’s the way I did it more years ago then I’d like to remember. Some of those “choices” you talk of were made for them by their husbands when they split and can’t be found for child support. Lets face it, there’s sexism on both sides and it varies fro race to race, job to job etc. Just sayin, watch what you wish for because if I were just recently married, I wouldn’t want my wife to have to register for the draft. I know how hard it is to take care of three kids and I wouldn’t have done as good a job as as she did.
Think where women were 50 years ago (I was 17, how old were you) and tell me about all these rights and equality that they had. I think the macho male is a bit afraid that women may finally catch up with us. Seems to me I read somewhere that we were created equal.

 

[silentfactor80]

Wow, there’s a lot of testosterone running in this thread. I’ll go on a limb and guess most are single. In a true marriage, the decision to be a stay at home Mom or work is usually made by both partners, at least that’s the way I did it more years ago then I’d like to remember. Some of those “choices” you talk of were made for them by their husbands when they split and can’t be found for child support. Lets face it, there’s sexism on both sides and it varies fro race to race, job to job etc. Just sayin, watch what you wish for because if I were just recently married, I wouldn’t want my wife to have to register for the draft. I know how hard it is to take care of three kids and I wouldn’t have done as good a job as as she did.
Think where women were 50 years ago (I was 17, how old were you) and tell me about all these rights and equality that they had. I think the macho male is a bit afraid that women may finally catch up with us. Seems to me I read somewhere that we were created equal.

Many of those deadbeat dads were a result of no-fault divorce (one of feminism’s first fruits). In my grandparents generation (1920’s) divorce was a shame and most guys fulfilled their duty as husbands / fathers because honor meant something to them.

Personally, I hope women don’t catch up. I hope they surpass and blow us out of the water so they can see what it is like to have to be a “rock” as Deb123 put it up there.

The draft issue you raise is another thing. Women need to be included or have some other legally required responsibility of them for which the penalty for not doing is as severe as it is for men (i.e. no drivers license, financial aid, government employment, etc). They have enjoyed the right to vote and send men off to war for years without themselves having skin in the game unless by choice. The reason your wife did a better job was because you were never trained as a young kid to be a caretaker. That was “women’s work” in your generation. In my generation there is no reason why a man can’t take care of a baby just as well if not better than many women.

Also, we do not live in the world to that was 50 years ago. No one is asking for a return to that world. What we are asking here is for women and society at large to value today’s men as human beings with respect. Nothing more nothing less. I really don’t think you know what it is like to be a guy these days since your from a very different era where men actually received respect. Sure, not everything was great but respect is something that never should have been kicked out to the curb.

 

[shipwrkd]

.I really don’t think you know what it is like to be a guy these days since your from a very different era where men actually received respect. Sure, not everything was great but respect is something that never should have been kicked out to the curb.

Well, I didn’t when I was a kid…butt a guy can learn. And a real man would take The Buckets advice and “suck it up”.

BTW, for posting this

We had a forum in the past about men’s rights that got closed so lets try to avoid a repeat of that if possible.

you sure do enjoy stirring the pot. :tiphat:

 

[silentfactor80]

Well, I didn’t when I was a kid…butt a guy can learn. And a real man would take The Buckets advice and “suck it up”.

BTW, for posting this

you sure do enjoy stirring the pot. :tiphat:

A real man uses his brain and calls a bad deal when he sees one to maintain his God-given honor. Of coarse since many men let themselves be defined by women they never see the bad deal because it looks so good. A real woman would respect men and not take him for granted.

Women stirred the pot with feminism. It is time men did the same and liberate ourselves from the toxic definitions of masculinity your generation subscribed to. The number one reason men die earlier than women is heart disease. You know what one of the biggest causes of that are? The stress hormone called cortisol!

Toxic masculinity + no respect for men = lots of cortisol

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Exactly. Men are meant to be the emotionally stronger gender… the rock. There’s nothing more unattractive to me than whiny men. And I don’t mean men who are emotional and have feelings (I like that). I mean men who go around complaining and play the pity victim card all the time. Sooo unattractive on so many levels.

It is equally unattractive when any group (men, women, blacks, whites, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals) does it.

It also does not mean that injustices towards different groups don’t exist. Trying to correct injustice isn’t whining per se.

There are pros and cons to being a man or a woman, and while equal of value in God’s eyes, they are not meant to be the same. And that’s a great thing.

Again, men and women are of equal value, but they were never intended to fulfill the same roles with the same aesexual characteristics. Living in a fallen world means sometimes a person has to fill dual roles, but that is a result of sin and our fallen nature, not God’s ideal.

 

[Debora123]

I detect an certain implication in your post there. We aren’t just meant to be the emotionally strong, we are neurologically. That does not mean however that we are women’s emotional punching bag and have to tolerate being disrespected. You can call us “whiny men” here but to be quite honest the main reason the guys are speaking up here is we are tired of being trashed by women and society at large. Do you like it when guys pour on the woman jokes? Do you like it when men take women for granted? This is about decency and human dignity. Both are Catholic principles. Women seem to think decency and human dignity only applies to them and the guys here would like you to know it works both ways.

Of coarse there is nothing more unattractive to you than “whiny men.” They remind you life isn’t all about the woman and her needs. Yes, shocking revelation many women can’t handle. Also, after enough weathering and abuse rocks tend to crack and down comes everything that took them for granted!

You “detected” the wrong implication. I made myself very clear, and if my personal preference offends you, then I don’t know what to tell you.

One thing though, please lay OFF the false assumptions and accusations. It is very uncharitable.

 

[silentfactor80]

You “detected” the wrong implication. I made myself very clear, and if my personal preference offends you, then I don’t know what to tell you.

One thing though, please lay OFF the false assumptions and accusations. It is very uncharitable.

Well if you don’t think there are any “whiny men” here why would you feel the need to bring that up? What do you consider a “whiny man?”