Sexism goes both ways

[Debora123]

I know I personally get mad at all the media out there that portray women as being helpless, brainless, sex objects.

But things like this only serve to worsen the problem of objectification and sexism in our society:

shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/samsung-s-primitive-husband-angers-men–is-it-sexist–173827672.html

What do ya’ll think?

 

[Kamaduck]

I’ve noticed that misogyny and misandry tend to reinforce each other. By belittling one gender, we indirectly belittle the other one, too.

Stuff like this only serves to divide us further. It doesn’t help anyone. :nope:

 

[Kelfa28]

Not so much the article itself…I’m fed up with the way men are portrayed in the media as well.
This whole chilling on the couch with a beer watching the game or playing endless hours of COD on the XBox…while wifey is being super mom is ridiculous.

It’s this little gem from a Women’s Studies professor at the end that just screams progressive liberalism…

“You can say [this ad is] prejudiced, in bad taste, insulting, not funny,” she said. “But it can’t be sexist. Just like a black person can’t be racist. Sexism is a word with a very specific meaning, which is a certain group having more access than another group to the things that make life worth living, such as high wages and good housing.”

Yeah, okay.

She’s probably in the same camp of women who thinks that a SAHM is not a real job and we should break free from the chains of oppression that our husbands keep us locked up in so we can go out into the real world and find careers of our own.

 

[Debora123]

Not so much the article itself…I’m fed up with the way men are portrayed in the media as well.
This whole chilling on the couch with a beer watching the game or playing endless hours of COD on the XBox…while wifey is being super mom is ridiculous.

It’s this little gem from a Women’s Studies professor at the end that just screams progressive liberalism…

Yeah, okay.

She’s probably in the same camp of women who thinks that a SAHM is not a real job and we should break free from the chains of oppression that our husbands keep us locked up in so we can go out into the real world and find careers of our own.

Yeah, I agreed with her on the other things she said, but I did not agree with her that sexism and racism can’t go both ways. I’ve seen plenty of racist minorities out there.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Kelfa, I am with you! Husbands and men in general are not the idiots some people out there try to portray them to be!

I remember seeing an interview of a man with 10 kiddos and he had been asked if he was happy to have a job as an insurance salesman because due to his job he would be away from the home at night sometimes and not have to deal with getting all the kids to bed etc.

The father said (something along these lines), before I go out to work at night I am at home helping my wife and doing everything I can to help make the time while I am gone easier for her. I don’t use work to escape from my family. I love my wife and my family and love being with them.

ETA: Debra, I agree… it can happen both ways… sexism and racism…

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, the ad is stupid, sexist, and embarrassing. I hope my husband never sees it.

 

[chevalier]

I know I personally get mad at all the media out there that portray women as being helpless, brainless, sex objects.

Same. But I’m also personally offended by that stuff because it implies a thing or two about my own character or brain, forget will power.

What do ya’ll think?

As one commenter put it, the ‘evolved’ husband is a brain-dead slave of the woman.

What I found objectionable on a personal level was the emphasis on multitasking. It always makes me sad when women can’t realise that we aren’t less evolved just because we’re worse multi-taskers than they are.

My personal favourite is each sex complaining about the other’s silly entertainment of choice. Cars vs dolls, just done by people 30 years old and more.

Also, who says it wasn’t a man who developed that ad?

“You can say [this ad is] prejudiced, in bad taste, insulting, not funny,” she said. “But it can’t be sexist. Just like a black person can’t be racist. Sexism is a word with a very specific meaning, which is a certain group having more access than another group to the things that make life worth living, such as high wages and good housing.”

Well, opinion of arts and sciences named [InsertSex] Studies has never been particularly high, but that’s something to make you question the wisdom of awarding a BA degree, much less a professorship, barring a hard scientist who somehow gets his numbers right despite such elementary issues with logic in language.

 

[FrancisBenedict]

I think some company just magnified their publicity right across the web by being controversial again!

Yes it goes both ways, women & men both have equal value for our respective ways.

We should always honour & respect each other.

 

[Kamaduck]

Not so much the article itself…I’m fed up with the way men are portrayed in the media as well.
This whole chilling on the couch with a beer watching the game or playing endless hours of COD on the XBox…while wifey is being super mom is ridiculous.

It’s this little gem from a Women’s Studies professor at the end that just screams progressive liberalism…

Yeah, okay.

She’s probably in the same camp of women who thinks that a SAHM is not a real job and we should break free from the chains of oppression that our husbands keep us locked up in so we can go out into the real world and find careers of our own.

Because I spend way too much time reading feminist blogs, I guess I can see where she’s coming from. It’s not that she’s a crazy radical feminist who thinks that all men are evil and SAHM’s are failing at life. (Well… She might be, but you can’t tell that from the quote.)

There’s a certain group of liberal activists that has redefined “sexist” and “racist” within their own communities. When they use the word, it describes something much more serious than what most people mean. It’s something that reinforces the established power structure. It’s something that an oppressive force does to an oppressed group. It doesn’t just mean “treating someone differently because of ____”, it means “harming someone, keeping them down, stopping them from achieving, because of ____”. And the argument goes that while men as a whole can oppress women in this way, women as a whole cannot do this to men, because they do not have enough power in society to hurt men much at all. The same logic applies to racism- only white people can be racist (although minorities can also be prejudiced/hateful), because only white people, as a whole, have enough power to seriously harm minorites. Basically it has less to do with prejudice and more to do with actual oppression.

I hope I explained that right. Probably not.

I don’t actually agree with that position, since… That’s not how most people use the words. Therefore, it’s not what the words mean. Anybody can be racist and anybody can be sexist, and it’s bad no matter who is doing it.

However, I would agree that prejudice against an oppressive group is more serious than prejudice against a group that is being oppressed. If that makes sense. Like, a black kid telling a white kid that they’re ugly because of their skin color is bad. But a white kid telling a black kid that their skin makes them ugly is worse, because society, media, etc. agrees with the white kid.

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

The whole problem is pride.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

Because I spend way too much time reading feminist blogs, I guess I can see where she’s coming from. It’s not that she’s a crazy radical feminist who thinks that all men are evil and SAHM’s are failing at life. (Well… She might be, but you can’t tell that from the quote.)

There’s a certain group of liberal activists that has redefined “sexist” and “racist” within their own communities. When they use the word, it describes something much more serious than what most people mean. It’s something that reinforces the established power structure. It’s something that an oppressive force does to an oppressed group. It doesn’t just mean “treating someone differently because of ____”, it means “harming someone, keeping them down, stopping them from achieving, because of ____”. And the argument goes that while men as a whole can oppress women in this way, women as a whole cannot do this to men, because they do not have enough power in society to hurt men much at all. The same logic applies to racism- only white people can be racist (although minorities can also be prejudiced/hateful), because only white people, as a whole, have enough power to seriously harm minorites. Basically it has less to do with prejudice and more to do with actual oppression.

I hope I explained that right. Probably not.

I don’t actually agree with that position, since… That’s not how most people use the words. Therefore, it’s not what the words mean. Anybody can be racist and anybody can be sexist, and it’s bad no matter who is doing it.

However, I would agree that prejudice against an oppressive group is more serious than prejudice against a group that is being oppressed. If that makes sense. Like, a black kid telling a white kid that they’re ugly because of their skin color is bad. But a white kid telling a black kid that their skin makes them ugly is worse, because society, media, etc. agrees with the white kid.

Yes, thank you. I was hoping someone on here would mention the link between sexism or racism and power structure, that is the true definition of the word. We have colloquially made the word something else but its true definition implies that its impossible to be racist or sexist if you do not have control within a dominant power paradigm to deny a group of people something necessary (employment, proper housing etc)

Do I find the ad problematic, YES. Do I find behaviors of predjudice against people based on gender or race problematic YES. I have essentially made a career out of studying and talking about these things and also supporting and creating diversity and equality reinforcing materials its my niche within my broader career.

 

[Kelfa28]

Because I spend way too much time reading feminist blogs, I guess I can see where she’s coming from. It’s not that she’s a crazy radical feminist who thinks that all men are evil and SAHM’s are failing at life. (Well… She might be, but you can’t tell that from the quote.)

There’s a certain group of liberal activists that has redefined “sexist” and “racist” within their own communities. When they use the word, it describes something much more serious than what most people mean. It’s something that reinforces the established power structure. It’s something that an oppressive force does to an oppressed group. It doesn’t just mean “treating someone differently because of ____”, it means “harming someone, keeping them down, stopping them from achieving, because of ____”. And the argument goes that while men as a whole can oppress women in this way, women as a whole cannot do this to men, because they do not have enough power in society to hurt men much at all. The same logic applies to racism- only white people can be racist (although minorities can also be prejudiced/hateful), because only white people, as a whole, have enough power to seriously harm minorites. Basically it has less to do with prejudice and more to do with actual oppression.

I hope I explained that right. Probably not.

I don’t actually agree with that position, since… That’s not how most people use the words. Therefore, it’s not what the words mean. Anybody can be racist and anybody can be sexist, and it’s bad no matter who is doing it.

However, I would agree that prejudice against an oppressive group is more serious than prejudice against a group that is being oppressed. If that makes sense. Like, a black kid telling a white kid that they’re ugly because of their skin color is bad. But a white kid telling a black kid that their skin makes them ugly is worse, because society, media, etc. agrees with the white kid.

I know you don’t agree with this mindset…and, yes, I recognize that I was being a bit facetious with my verbiage. I don’t know this women from adam…but I know she is making wildly inaccurate statements based on her ideas on what “fact” is.

The problem I have with your reasoning is that the Left (nor the Right) can make up their own language and pawn it off as the correct meaning to general society.

This is not what Racism and Sexism actually is. It’s just their convoluted idea of what it should be.
You cannot honestly say that Sexism and Racism just don’t apply to certain “oppressed” classes just because, according to some people, they are oppressed.

I don’t think the general numbers of society’s reality back this claim up. The fact is more women are graduating from college then men now. The fact is more and more women are working then ever before and more and more men are being laid off and losing their jobs.

The fact is there are more and more cases of minorities attacking and harming white people and other minority groups due to racism now too. They just don’t get reported very often.

So when does it end? When will the left be satisfied with the need to bring down the all mighty white male class? When will they quit saying that white men are actually the oppressors and not the oppressed?
When these white men are wiped off the face of the planet? A final sacrifice that they deserve…to get what has always been coming to them?

 

[Miss_Felicity]

I know you don’t agree with this mindset…and, yes, I recognize that I was being a bit facetious with my verbiage. I don’t know this women from adam…but I know she is making wildly inaccurate statements based on her ideas on what “fact” is.

The problem I have with your reasoning is that the Left (nor the Right) can make up their own language and pawn it off as the correct meaning to general society.

This is not what Racism and Sexism actually is. It’s just their convoluted idea of what it should be.
You cannot honestly say that Sexism and Racism just don’t apply to certain “oppressed” classes just because, according to some people, they are oppressed.

I don’t think the general numbers of society’s reality back this claim up. The fact is more women are graduating from college then men now. The fact is more and more women are working then ever before and more and more men are being laid off and losing their jobs.

The fact is there are more and more cases of minorities attacking and harming white people and other minority groups due to racism now too. They just don’t get reported very often.

So when does it end? When will the left be satisfied with the need to bring down the all mighty white male class? When will they quit saying that white men are actually the oppressors and not the oppressed?
When these white men are wiped off the face of the planet? A final sacrifice that they deserve…to get what has always been coming to them?

I would really LOVE to know where you get your statistical evidence on non reported crimes seeing as how their can be NO statistics on non reported crimes since they are NOT REPORTED That statement is VERY damaging, and hurtful to minorities and non minorities. I’m not living in a fantasy world and I’m not saying that a racial prejudice has NEVER prompted a senseless attack on a white person or other minority but I would be careful that you not make statements that lead to and cause a prejudice view where there isn’t one. I would be careful not to toss statements out that implied that your opinion of minority behavior against whites and other minorities in fact when it is indeed opinion.

I was actually going to agree with some of your points until the bolded.I don’t consider myself a liberal but I know I am read that way in some circles. I don’t think there is a huge plot to “bring down” and “oppress” the white man sigh yawn I DO think there are people who find the existing power structure of America to be problematic in a myriad of ways.

 

[Kamaduck]

OK. Well. Um.

I’m not really sure where either of you (Kelfa and Felicity) are getting your “true” definitions of racism and sexism. Words are just labels for ideas we hold in common, a tool used to help us communicate. Right now, you’re using the same label for two slightly different ideas, and since both uses are fairly common within different circles, it could be said that both of your definitions are right. However, using the same label for different things isn’t going help us communicate.

The commercial is harmful and divisive. It meets my idea of “sexism”, and Kelfa’s definition, but not Felicity’s. That’s not really because we disagree about the commercial, but because we use the label “sexist” for different things.

I think oppression is becoming more complex, and it’s possible now for women and minorities to really harm the groups that are oppressing them. So maybe it wasn’t possible for them to be sexist/racist years ago, but right now, I think it is. That’s just based on how I use the label, though.

I’d also like to say that it’s not technically impossible to have statistics for unreported crimes. The statistics are super faulty, sure, but I know I’ve seen it done with rape statistics. You take a anonymous survey and ask how many people were raped during a certain time period. Then you look at how many rapes were reported, and you get massively different results. You still do need some kind of evidence, though, to make a claim about underreported crimes.

 

[Kelfa28]

I would really LOVE to know where you get your statistical evidence on non reported crimes seeing as how their can be NO statistics on non reported crimes since they are NOT REPORTED That statement is VERY damaging, and hurtful to minorities and non minorities. I’m not living in a fantasy world and I’m not saying that a racial prejudice has NEVER prompted a senseless attack on a white person or other minority but I would be careful that you not make statements that lead to and cause a prejudice view where there isn’t one. I would be careful not to toss statements out that implied that your opinion of minority behavior against whites and other minorities in fact when it is indeed opinion.

I was actually going to agree with some of your points until the bolded.I don’t consider myself a liberal but I know I am read that way in some circles. I don’t think there is a huge plot to “bring down” and “oppress” the white man sigh yawn I DO think there are people who find the existing power structure of America to be problematic in a myriad of ways.

Under reported does not equal non reported. All one would have to do is google “flash mob”
and find many stories of black on white crime that are only reported on the local level and seldom make national news. If there were mobs of white people in the city going around and destroying black people’s property and assaulting black people, don’t you think it would get national attention?

It is not my intention to be hurtful to minorities or non minorities, however it is difficult to stay quite and not say the truth as I see it. And speaking of existing power structures, do you really think they are based on race?

One out of every 5 americans is on food stamps, Wall Street execs get bonuses, and spent more per dollar on Democrat candidates than Republicans, and 90% of all media is owned by 6 large corporations. We have a central bank that is a private institution and is accountable to no one but themselves, Congress can’t even audit it.

There is a power structure in this country but it is not based on race, or gender, or left vs right, and we can sometimes over simplify and alienate ourselves against each other by using these labels.
ascribing these labels to the problem

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

People are people, and sexism, racism, etc. go both ways.

I’ve been discriminated against because I was a “white boy” that had friends in minority neighborhoods. It happens even now. In my profession, I deal with all types of people. I’ve had woman be very nasty to me, and, interestingly enough, the majority turn out to be lesbians.

 

[Kamaduck]

People are people, and sexism, racism, etc. go both ways.

I’ve been discriminated against because I was a “white boy” that had friends in minority neighborhoods. It happens even now. In my profession, I deal with all types of people. I’ve had woman be very nasty to me, and, interestingly enough, the majority turn out to be lesbians.

I don’t think being nasty to people of the opposite sex is necessarily sexism… People are nasty to each other.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

Under reported does not equal non reported. All one would have to do is google “flash mob”
and find many stories of black on white crime that are only reported on the local level and seldom make national news. If there were mobs of white people in the city going around and destroying black people’s property and assaulting black people, don’t you think it would get national attention?

**It is not my intention to be hurtful to minorities or non minorities**, however it is difficult to stay quite and not say the truth as I see it. And speaking of existing power structures, do you really think they are based on race?

One out of every 5 americans is on food stamps, Wall Street execs get bonuses, and spent more per dollar on Democrat candidates than Republicans, and 90% of all media is owned by 6 large corporations. We have a central bank that is a private institution and is accountable to no one but themselves, Congress can’t even audit it.

There is a power structure in this country but it is not based on race, or gender, or left vs right, and we can sometimes over simplify and alienate ourselves against each other by using these labels.
ascribing these labels to the problem

Not buying that for a dollar, I told you that the statements you were making are very hurtful and dangerous but you have the right to believe what you want to believe. You are entitled to your opinions. Even if those opinions perpetuate ugly things and are some of the reason my younger brother can’t get on the elevator in the building of some of his work sites without white women clutching their purse,he can’t pull up in his car at at gas station without certain people locking their doors. I think they agree with you that minority youth have an axe to grind with white people.

I will agree with you power structure isn’t based completely on race or gender and that is an over simplification but lets not pretend it doesn’t play a role because it does.

 

[jmcrae]

Not buying that for a dollar, I told you that the statements you were making are very hurtful and dangerous but you have the right to believe what you want to believe. You are entitled to your opinions. Even if those opinions perpetuate ugly things and are some of the reason my younger brother can’t get on the elevator in the building of some of his work sites without white women clutching their purse,he can’t pull up in his car at at gas station without certain people locking their doors. I think they agree with you that minority youth have an axe to grind with white people.

I will agree with you power structure isn’t based completely on race or gender and that is an over simplification but lets not pretend it doesn’t play a role because it does.

The reaction of people around your brother may well be due to his gender and age, more than due to his race.

As a Youth Worker, I am well aware of the prejudice against young men of every race. They pay a premium on car insurance because society assumes that they can’t or won’t drive safely.

Young men of every race are generally seen in society as “dangerous” and possibly “out of control.” How he dresses may unfortunately be part of the equation, as well - if he is dressed “gangsta” style, he will get a more negative reaction than if he’s dressed “business casual.”

 

[Miss_Felicity]

The reaction of people around your brother may well be due to his gender and age, more than due to his race.

As a Youth Worker, I am well aware of the prejudice against young men of every race. They pay a premium on car insurance because society assumes that they can’t or won’t drive safely.

Young men of every race are generally seen in society as “dangerous” and possibly “out of control.” How he dresses may unfortunately be part of the equation, as well - if he is dressed “gangsta” style, he will get a more negative reaction than if he’s dressed “business casual.”

Thanks for this post, I know and understand that to be true, it just doesn’t make it any less frustrating. My brother doesn’t dress “gangsta” at all. He says it is worst in the winter because he is wearing a hat and or hoodie because its cold not because he has an interest in robbing or beating up anybody. My heart breaks for what he goes through sometimes. Even though I’m also in my 20’s I think young women in some cases have it easier, I’m not identified as the same type of threat my brother is or my boyfriend’s son.