Sexism goes both ways

[Rozellelily]

Companies use marketing strategies based on stereotypes to try to sell their products.
Sometimes it has an backfiring effect.
What is a stereotype vs what is actually sexism/racism is much debated.

 

[Nimzovik]

In this particular commercial I fail to see how there can be any debate. It is quite blatant.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I 100% percent agree it is an add that degrades men. However, I also think it degrades women also. I am a woman and looking at that ad makes me feel like it is up to women to change men. It shows women as being manipulative and sneaky. How wrong. Where is the message of accepting people the way they are and if there is an issue with house work communicating honestly?

Also, as a woman, it makes me feel less than. I know what it is like to have a long day at work, be tired and stressed out and need to relax in front of a TV. Having stomach problems, I have on more than one occasion embarrassed myself with flatulence and it has nothing to do with being a lazy pig and everything to do with stomach problems. I live alone so there are occasions, I just sit in front of the TV and ‘let it out’ when I need to rest. Am I all of a sudden less of a woman and more of a man because I need to rest?

If I was to analyse the situation, this is obviously either
a-) a lazy man who is a minority
b-) a man who had a long day and needs to rest

The company is trying to promote the idea that their product can change the situation. It is also promoting the idea that resting is for weaker people. Sad that people buy into it

Angie

 

[Nimzovik]

Thankyou for your sentiments. You present rather astute points.

However, the article is referencing how males are ‘up in arms’ concerning the advert.

Society is all too inundated as to the outrage of Feminists and their issues.

Methinks we be better served,* this* time, to listen to what men are saying and feeling about the ad for a- long awaited- change.

 

[Nimzovik]

Here is another anti male article IMHO: shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dads-hardwired-dumb-154500022.html

I for one am** really** tired of such,

 

[Walking_Home]

Here is another anti male article IMHO: shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dads-hardwired-dumb-154500022.html

I for one am** really** tired of such,

---

“Really tired of such”-- but you seem to just love to spend time trolling the “mano net” to find “such” – to continue the agenda-- of your previous locked thread(s).

 

[Nimzovik]

One man’s troll is another man’s opinion.

I participated in the thread. I presented an example. And your issue is what?

That I am frequently endeavoring to raise conscious awareness of what I feel to be an important ill of today’s society?

For this you** labeled** me a troll?

 

[PetiteFoi]

Blind post:

That ad was just gross and in bad taste.
Can you imagine if instead of man on the couch eating, it was an overweight woman, doing her nails, eating bonbons and watching the shopping network - and then all the husband does is stick an “evolution” pack in her, and she becomes super-attractive, skinny, super mom/housekeeper?

The **** storm would be beyond anything we’ve seen.

Why is it funny to portray men as useless babies, but atrocious to show women like that?

The double-standard is ridiculous, I may not be a man; but these types of ad’s seriously tick me off.

~ PetiteFoi

 

[Nimzovik]

Yes indeed.

Let me preface my ensuing statements by stating that I am definitely Pro Woman. However, I am also Pro Male too.

Too many times when one states one is Pro Male (I do it just by saying I am Catholic ) one is then assumed that one is also anti woman!

Here is yet another interesting example:

shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dads-hardwired-dumb-154500022.html

Interesting spin on this one.

 

[Debora123]

Blind post:

That ad was just gross and in bad taste.
Can you imagine if instead of man on the couch eating, it was an overweight woman, doing her nails, eating bonbons and watching the shopping network - and then all the husband does is stick an “evolution” pack in her, and she becomes super-attractive, skinny, super mom/housekeeper?

The **** storm would be beyond anything we’ve seen.

Why is it funny to portray men as useless babies, but atrocious to show women like that?

The double-standard is ridiculous, I may not be a man; but these types of ad’s seriously tick me off.

~ PetiteFoi

Yup.

And let’s not forget the double standards go both ways. A man can go out and have sex with a bunch of women and use them like disposable toilet paper, and he’s considered a stud. If a woman were to do that to men, she’d be called a dirty whore.

I didn’t post this thread to show how “hard men have it.” (honestly I think women have it much harder at a universal scale). I posted this thread to show that sexism and double standards go both ways, and that we, women and men, need to learn to treat each other like people who are deserving of respect and dignity.

 

[Nimzovik]

Good Catholics would not think like the above behavior described in the above post for either sex- yes?

We can only do so much for what secularists think and do.

 

[Kamaduck]

Yup.

And let’s not forget the double standards go both ways. A man can go out and have sex with a bunch of women and use them like disposable toilet paper, and he’s considered a stud. If a woman were to do that to men, she’d be called a dirty whore.

I didn’t post this thread to show how “hard men have it.” (honestly I think women have it much harder at a universal scale). I posted this thread to show that sexism and double standards go both ways, and that we, women and men, need to learn to treat each other like people who are deserving of respect and dignity.

I agree. It’s tempting, as one researches gender issues, to buy into the feminist idea that sexism cannot be committed against men. However, every action taken against men only serves to create more division and tear both genders down, the same as actions against women do. If we really want to make progress, I think the only effective strategy is to push respect for everyone, and hold everybody to that standard.

For instance- in the above situation, many feminists would inisist that the woman in question is simply expressing her natural sexuality- that it is no more wrong than if a man had done it. We as Catholics, on the other hand, would hold the man to the same standard and tell him that he was in the wrong- just as we would for a woman.

 

[PaleoConCatlick]

Because I spend way

There’s a certain group of liberal activists that has redefined “sexist” and “racist” within their own communities. When they use the word, it describes something much more serious than what most people mean. It’s something that reinforces the established power structure. It’s something that an oppressive force does to an oppressed group. It doesn’t just mean “treating someone differently because of ____”, it means “harming someone, keeping them down, stopping them from achieving, because of ____”. And the argument goes that while men as a whole can oppress women in this way, women as a whole cannot do this to men, because they do not have enough power in society to hurt men much at all. The same logic applies to racism- only white people can be racist (although minorities can also be prejudiced/hateful), because only white people, as a whole, have enough power to seriously harm minorites. Basically it has less to do with prejudice and more to do with actual oppression.

However, I would agree that prejudice against an oppressive group is more serious than prejudice against a group that is being oppressed. If that makes sense. Like, a black kid telling a white kid that they’re ugly because of their skin color is bad. But a white kid telling a black kid that their skin makes them ugly is worse, because society, media, etc. agrees with the white kid.

You are correct, they believe in a oppressive power structure that enforces these things.

The problem is they want the Federal government to aggressively fix it. And there’s no powerful structure that can create injustice more that a government.

 

[Nimzovik]

Yes sexism in the portrayal of women does indeed occur in the Media. The Dallas cheerleaders,** IMHO,** would be one such example.

The Original Post regarding the link shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/samsung-s-primitive-husband-angers-men–is-it-sexist–173827672.html with the primary text indicating that it angers men is what IMHO, is what makes it* prominently* newsworthy. And* why* is that? Because it is not nearly as common to hear men rail against such abuse. We have had well over 50+ years of the mostly radical Feminist narrative dominate the gender issues and permeate the public psyche. Men were thought to not even* have* issues.

Methinks that is* finally* time for Men’s Issues, for a change, to surface for air in the frontal lobes of our society.

We have** all** heard of the supposed ‘Glass Ceiling’ that Feminists rail about. We have all heard ad infinitum, that it is the ‘Womans right to Choose’ to abort (men’s babies* too*) children. We all here could list at* least* several more women’s issues as well, no doubt.

However. Let us test the social quotient of those involved in this thread with a view of the topic of sexism mentioned in the O.P.

Just how many Men’s Issues can anyone here* list?* Ahmmmmmmmmm?

Methinks the answers would indeed be indicative of what I speak - yes?

I, personally, would like, in particular, to hear from the women in this regard.

 

[ahaley]

I contacted Samsung and let them know that the ad was offensive. Probably won’t matter much in the long run, but I feel better.

 

[Kamaduck]

I contacted Samsung and let them know that the ad was offensive. Probably won’t matter much in the long run, but I feel better.

Yes sexism in the portrayal of women does indeed occur in the Media. The Dallas cheerleaders,** IMHO,** would be one such example.

The Original Post regarding the link shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/samsung-s-primitive-husband-angers-men–is-it-sexist–173827672.html with the primary text indicating that it angers men is what IMHO, is what makes it* prominently* newsworthy. And* why* is that? Because it is not nearly as common to hear men rail against such abuse. We have had well over 50+ years of the mostly radical Feminist narrative dominate the gender issues and permeate the public psyche. Men were thought to not even* have* issues.

Methinks that is* finally* time for Men’s Issues, for a change, to surface for air in the frontal lobes of our society.

We have** all** heard of the supposed ‘Glass Ceiling’ that Feminists rail about. We have all heard ad infinitum, that it is the ‘Womans right to Choose’ to abort (men’s babies* too*) children. We all here could list at* least* several more women’s issues as well, no doubt.

However. Let us test the social quotient of those involved in this thread with a view of the topic of sexism mentioned in the O.P.

Just how many Men’s Issues can anyone here* list?* Ahmmmmmmmmm?

Methinks the answers would indeed be indicative of what I speak - yes?

I, personally, would like, in particular, to hear from the women in this regard.

We probably hear about women’s issues more because there are more important female-specific issues. The issue of abortion, for instance- it hurts males, yes, but men do not get pregnant and are therefore not affected in the same way. And abortion is a huge issue that absolutely deserves all the airtime it gets. (I wouldn’t say the same of the Glass Ceiling- I haven’t heard about it in quite some time, and am not really convinced it exists anymore. )

But yeah, for specifically male stuff. I suppose I’ll try, but I submit that it is possible that men’s issues are simply not as pressing at this time. It’s very hard to imagine an issue more pressing than the abortion debate.

-Prison rape. Primarily male issue, at least as far as incidents perpetrated by inmates go.

-The custody issues you brought up last thread- women are less likely to pay child custody.

-Steroid use, rampant among male athletes and either less reported or less frequent for female athletes.

-Male students read less. Boys do worse than girls in a traditional classroom setting. Many say this is because the system favors girls by being a sedentary and relatively passive activity, traits that society often encourages in girls.

-General pressure to conform to a masculine ideal, which includes not asking for help and not showing emotions. Can include being violent and uncaring.

-More likely to be seen as violent by others. Which they are, statistically. I guess that’s its own issue. Men are more likely to kill people and more likely to be killed.

-Less likely to be trusted with or around children. More likely to be suspected of pedophilia.

-Media stereotypes surrounding fatherhood are more negative than those surrounding motherhood.

-Men are more likely to commit suicide than women (although women attempt it more often).

-Only men are subject to the draft in America. I don’t think anybody wants to change that; I’ve only heard it come up as a joke.

That’s ten, and all I can think of off the top of my head (ie, while trying to ignore my urge to google it ). Maybe more will come to me later. You are right that it’s probably less than half what I could rattle off as affecting women, but that’s partially because I’m female. I intentionally seek out female-specific topics, and I’m guessing most men don’t do that.

 

[Nimzovik]

I contacted Samsung and let them know that the ad was offensive. Probably won’t matter much in the long run, but I feel better.

 

[Nimzovik]

We probably hear about women’s issues more because there are more important female-specific issues. The issue of abortion, for instance- it hurts males, yes, but men do not get pregnant and are therefore not affected in the same way. And abortion is a huge issue that absolutely deserves all the airtime it gets. (I wouldn’t say the same of the Glass Ceiling- I haven’t heard about it in quite some time, and am not really convinced it exists anymore. )

But yeah, for specifically male stuff. I suppose I’ll try, but I submit that it is possible that men’s issues are simply not as pressing at this time. It’s very hard to imagine an issue more pressing than the abortion debate.

-Prison rape. Primarily male issue, at least as far as incidents perpetrated by inmates go.

-The custody issues you brought up last thread- women are less likely to pay child custody.

-Steroid use, rampant among male athletes and either less reported or less frequent for female athletes.

-Male students read less. Boys do worse than girls in a traditional classroom setting. Many say this is because the system favors girls by being a sedentary and relatively passive activity, traits that society often encourages in girls.

-General pressure to conform to a masculine ideal, which includes not asking for help and not showing emotions. Can include being violent and uncaring.

-More likely to be seen as violent by others. Which they are, statistically. I guess that’s its own issue. Men are more likely to kill people and more likely to be killed.

-Less likely to be trusted with or around children. More likely to be suspected of pedophilia.

-Media stereotypes surrounding fatherhood are more negative than those surrounding motherhood.

-Men are more likely to commit suicide than women (although women attempt it more often).

-Only men are subject to the draft in America. I don’t think anybody wants to change that; I’ve only heard it come up as a joke.

That’s ten, and all I can think of off the top of my head (ie, while trying to ignore my urge to google it ). Maybe more will come to me later. You are right that it’s probably less than half what I could rattle off as affecting women, but that’s partially because I’m female. I intentionally seek out female-specific topics, and I’m guessing most men don’t do that.

Great start!

Here are some more for you.

1. Circumcision. :bigyikes: A good hygiene class would solve any problems circumcision is supposed to prevent. I guess baby genital mutilation is just ok in America.
2. Paternity Fraud! Yikes again!! A man raising another man’s baby due to a wife’s adulterous affair. Then there is the fact that this is fundamentally ignored by the law these days. Then there is the fact that the poor unsuspecting husband that when a woman initiates a divorce with* him* the non - biological father - he still pays the Child support!
3. Women initiate divorce more than men.

Believe me. Icould go on and on - but I want to know if any more (?) women know these answers…

 

[Debora123]

I agree. It’s tempting, as one researches gender issues, to buy into the feminist idea that sexism cannot be committed against men. However, every action taken against men only serves to create more division and tear both genders down, the same as actions against women do. If we really want to make progress, I think the only effective strategy is to push respect for everyone, and hold everybody to that standard.

For instance- in the above situation, many feminists would inisist that the woman in question is simply expressing her natural sexuality- that it is no more wrong than if a man had done it. We as Catholics, on the other hand, would hold the man to the same standard and tell him that he was in the wrong- just as we would for a woman.

 

[dedo]

Yup.

And let’s not forget the double standards go both ways. A man can go out and have sex with a bunch of women and use them like disposable toilet paper, and he’s considered a stud. If a woman were to do that to men, she’d be called a dirty whore.

I didn’t post this thread to show how “hard men have it.” (honestly I think women have it much harder at a universal scale). I posted this thread to show that sexism and double standards go both ways, and that we, women and men, need to learn to treat each other like people who are deserving of respect and dignity.

I think that this is changing.

Guys admire people who do things that are hard. In modern society with our 50% divorce rate, one thing that is not easy is to be is a family man.

I am not naturally outgoing or athletic, so I observe a lot. I have seen some of the toughest people in the world display the highest admiration for the guy that puts the time into raising his kids and looking after his family.

Those of us who don’t have kids, marvel at the people who do, and put the time into them.

The guy that is doing it right in terms of his opposite sex / children relationships, is the guy that all guys look up to.

I also think this has real implications for opportunities that come, or don’t come for a guy.

Over the years, I have seen the guys that are trying to “do it right” get those breaks from other guys.

I don’t think the guys that are sending the breaks are being moralistic, they may just want to help the guys that are trying to do better than they did.