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TruthSkr
Guest
That has changed over the past few years. The torn meniscus is the primary problem. Surgery would be too risky because of her medical background.The OP has posted on this before. It is a problem of erection sufficient for intercourse.
As someone who is infertile, it doesn’t. It simply is the recognition that you have to do the best you can as you are – and not to live in “ifs” and “maybes” because that’s not living in the real world at all. That’s living in a hypothetical future that may never become a reality. I did that for a while and it almost cost me my marriage. Ultimately, we’re called to do God’s will in the here and now, and sometimes we have to accept that being childless is God’s will for our particular situation.Adding a “but” shows a lack of faith.
I’m so sorry for what you are going through. I don’t know what to say, except to keep trudging on, step by step. I think that the fact that the Church is full of (terrible) sinners does not make what she teaches any less true. I don’t know how to deal with the pain of it all except bringing it mentally to the foot of the Cross.What do you all say?
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Lunam_Meam
Guest
As I have said, if a couple desires children and has faith, and it is God’s will they have children, biologically or not, then it will be so, as has been the case throughout the ages, because nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37). To doubt that shows a lack of faith. Does having faith in itself guarantee a miracle? No, but that is needed before God performs one. And, miracles are rare because of lack of faith.As someone who is infertile, it doesn’t. It simply is the recognition that you have to do the best you can as you are – and not to live in “ifs” and “maybes” because that’s not living in the real world at all. That’s living in a hypothetical future that may never become a reality. I did that for a while and it almost cost me my marriage. Ultimately, we’re called to do God’s will in the here and now, and sometimes we have to accept that being childless is God’s will for our particular situation.
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TruthSkr
Guest
Yes, that was my thinking. What harm is done outside of intercourse if conception is impossible.
There is a difference between doubting that (I don’t) and recognizing that God was indeed wise not to give us children (I do). I don’t doubt there are miracles, I think that particular miracle is not what my husband and I are called to. We’re called to the take up the cross of childlessness.To doubt that shows a lack of faith.
I really struggle with that “you didn’t get a miracle because you didn’t believe enough” stance. You cited Sarah upthread, but Sarah laughed when she was told she would conceive.miracles are rare because of lack of faith.
When you spend day after day desiring a miracle so much, begging God for something he isn’t giving you, you don’t really live. You just pine endlessly for something which is not there. You’re not here for your spouse, or parents, or friends, who are there and alive and need and love you.
Living like that – living for the miracle you hope for – is not living. It’s a foretaste of hell on earth.
I started living again the day I could truly say, with Bl. Charles de Foucauld : “Father, I abandon myself into your hands; do with me what you will. Whatever you may do, I thank you: I am ready for all, I accept all.”
Sorry for derailing your thread, @TruthSkr. Or maybe it echoes your own situation, I don’t know. I’ll leave you with the whole prayer, because it helped me through tough times.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
This is just you looking for a loophole excuse for yourself. Even if all the priests and bishops out there were sinning right and left, which is hardly the case, it’s irrelevant to your situation and doesn’t give you some right to sin. I was sympathetic, understanding and following along till you went down this path.and considering the awful way the Church handled the sex scandal I have begun to question its ability to even make such a moral pronouncement
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TruthSkr
Guest
We are not seeking to have children. Our children are all grown long ago. I mention the hysterectomy only to explain that we had trouble understanding the objection to sexual climax outside of intercourse when conception is impossible.If you and your wife desire children, but she is unable, then be good and trust there is nothing impossible with God if it is His will. Consider Abraham and Sarah, Jacob and Rachel, Zechariah and Elizabeth.
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TruthSkr
Guest
Yes, I understand the logic here. The issue in my mind was that if the Bishops who make the rules used such poor judgment in transferring offending priests from one place to another how can I trust their judgment on this?This is just you looking for a loophole excuse for yourself. Even if all the priests and bishops out there were sinning right and left, which is hardly the case, it’s irrelevant to your situation and doesn’t give you some right to sin. I was sympathetic, understanding and following along till you went down this path.
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Lunam_Meam
Guest
I did not say you doubted His word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37), and that is why you did not receive a miracle. And, I understand not everyone is meant to have children, such as the apostle Peter and his wife.There is a difference between doubting that (I don’t) and recognizing that God was indeed wise not to give us children (I do). I don’t doubt there are miracles, I think that particular miracle is not what my husband and I are called to. We’re called to the take up the cross of childlessness.
I was merely saying if a couple who desires children has faith, and it is God’s will they have children, then it will be so, as has been the case throughout the ages, because nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37). So, never lose faith and hope in having children, because even though you do not have a child right now it does not mean you never will. You may never, but you may.
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1ke
Guest
You aren’t alone in struggling to understand that sexual pleasure, climax, is a byproduct of sexual intimacy in marriage, not the purpose or the end.we had trouble understanding the objection to sexual climax outside of intercourse
When it becomes either of those things, it becomes disordered.
Our bodies are not our own, as Scripture tells us. They were bought with a price. Our sexuality is not ours to do with as we please. It is a gift from God, and when misused it offends God and harms neighbor. Even when we can discern no harm, even when people are willing participants.
As to your other post:
No, Bill Clinton did not “have sex with that woman”. He was fellated by her, And thereby degraded her, violated his marriage vows, and used her like an object for his own selfish end— making her a receptacle, not a person in the image and likeness of God.
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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
No one is disagreeing with that. The point is that while it is certainly possible, miracles are rare. I know of no case in which a baby was miraculously born of a woman who had had a hysterectomy. Is it possible? Sure. God could. But common things being common, they should assume that they are never going to have natural children. That’s not lack of faith, it’s common sense.I was merely saying if a couple who desires children has faith, and it is God’s will , then it will be so, as has been the case throughout the ages, because nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37).
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1ke
Guest
The Church’s teachings on sexuality aren’t “rules” made by bishops. They are truths of the faith. God’s moral law.The issue in my mind was that if the Bishops who make the rules
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Lunam_Meam
Guest
To assume the impossible shows a lack of faith in His word that nothing is impossible with Him if there is faith, and it is His will (Lk. 1:37). Does having faith in itself guarantee a miracle? No, but that is needed before God performs one. And, miracles are rare because of lack of faith.No one is disagreeing with that. The point is that while it is certainly possible, miracles are rare. I know of no case in which a baby was miraculously born of a woman who had had a hysterectomy. Is it possible? Sure. God could. But common things being common, they should assume that they are never going to have natural children. That’s not lack of faith, it’s common sense.
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Wesrock
Guest
This is thinking with a consequentialist ethics. In regards to acting in accordance with your human nature, it is contrary.Yes, that was my thinking. What harm is done outside of intercourse if conception is impossible.
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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
But no one is saying impossible.To assume the impossible shows a lack of faith in His word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37). Does having faith in itself guarantee a miracle? No, but that is needed before God performs one. And, miracles are rare because of lack of faith.
I suppose it’s possible that I could become pregnant. I mean, if God wills it, of course He could do it. Given that I’m a male, I find it really really really unlikely that God would make such a thing happen, and am planning my life around the assumption that I am not going to become Mr. Mom.
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PHXsunsAZ
Guest
A pregnancy without a uterus is very dangerous and can be life threatening. I don’t see how that would constitute a miracle.
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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
Apparently there have been successful pregnancies post hysterectomy. They are exceptionally rare.A pregnancy without a uterus is very dangerous and can be life threatening. I don’t see how that would constitute a miracle.
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TruthSkr
Guest
I don’t disagree that what he did was awful, just the definition of sex.No, Bill Clinton did not “have sex with that woman”. He was fellated by her, And thereby degraded her, violated his marriage vows, and used her like an object for his own selfish end— making her a receptacle, not a person in the image and likeness of God.
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