Sexless Marriage Challenging My Faith

[Fauken]

God can make the paralytic walk again, and the blind to see, but He has never grown back a member or an organ.

He technically grew back an ear (or at least healed it). Luke 22:

“22:50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
22:51 But Jesus answering, said: Suffer ye thus far. And when he had touched his ear, he healed him.”

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

He has shown no inclination to do what?

Have men become pregnant. The point is that while God could do anything, there are often situations in which it’s prudent to assume that the normal laws of nature are going to operate uninterrupted.

 

[Lunam_Meam]

Have men become pregnant

I have been talking about men and women couples who desire children, but the woman is physically unable to do so.

If a woman is unable to conceive, but she and her counter-part desire children, and it is God’s will they have children, then it will be so, as it has been throughout the ages, as nothing is impossible with God if it is His will (Lk. 1:37). Does faith in itself guarantee a miracle? No, but if it is His will to perform a miracle, then faith is required beforehand. So, speaking generally, such couples should never lose faith and hope in having children, because God may perform a miracle if its His will, and He sees they have faith.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I have been talking about men and women couples who desire children, but the woman is physically unable to do so.

I know. And I’m saying that while miracles happen, it’s prudent for the couple to assume they won’t be having children when the woman lacks a uterus. Just like while God could make a man give birth (although I don’t want to picture it) it’s reasonable for men to assume they aren’t going to get pregnant.

 

[Lunam_Meam]

And I’m saying that while miracles happen, it’s prudent for the couple to assume they won’t be having children when the woman lacks a uterus.

To assume that would be a lack of faith in His Word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37).

 

[Anicette]

Does faith in itself guarantee a miracle? No, but if it is His will to perform a miracle, then faith is required beforehand.

Faith is not requiered to perform a miracle. Countless women who are considered as sterile- with an uterus- had fall pregnant, with or without faith in God.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

To assume that would be a lack of faith in His Word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37).

I will circle this point until the sun explodes.

No, it doesn’t. By that logic, a man who assumes he won’t ever become pregnant is showing a “lack of faith in His Word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His Will.”

 

[ReaderT]

No other Christian religion has such a strict rule on this

While Orthodoxy favors procreative acts, priests also use economia (a dispensation from the standard rules when it will help someone towards salvation). I absolutely think this situation would warrant it, for obvious reasons. Sexually active couples often don’t/can’t go a month without it; being told you have to cut off all bodily pleasure forever seems (in my layman’s opinion) to be an incredibly big demand. Again, just my opinion and I know the Catholic church disagrees.

 

[Lunam_Meam]

No, it doesn’t. By that logic, a man who assumes he won’t ever become pregnant is showing a “lack of faith in His Word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His Will.”

God didn’t create man to give birth, so assuming a man won’t is putting trust in God’s plan for creation.

If a woman is unable to conceive, but she and/or her counter-part desire children, and they have faith that nothing is impossible with God if it is His will (Lk. 1:37), and it is God’s will they have them, then it will be so, as it has been throughout the ages.

For such a couple to assume they never will have children shows a lack of faith in His Word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37). Again, faith in itself does not guarantee a miracle, but if it is His will to perform a miracle, then faith is required beforehand.

Considering this, such couples should never lose faith and hope in having children, because God may perform a miracle by giving them children if it is His will, and He sees they have faith.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

God didn’t create man to give birth, so assuming a man won’t is putting trust in God’s plan for creation.

God’s plan for His creation also clearly involves babies being carried in the mother’s uterus. Assuming that a successful pregnancy won’t happen in the absence of one is putting trust in Gods plan for creation.

 

[Lunam_Meam]

God’s plan for His creation also clearly involves babies being carried in the mother’s uterus. Assuming that a successful pregnancy won’t happen in the absence of one is putting trust in Gods plan for creation.

I could just as easily say “God’s plan involves women having a uterus, and it is not impossible for Him to restore her original state.” My point is to remind people to keep the faith, because nothing is impossible if it is God’s will (Lk. 1:37).

Why should one assume a pregnancy will never happen due to their present situation of being physically unable to, when nothing is impossible with God if it is His will, and He sees there is faith in Him?

One should not create doubts for anyone who desires children, but is unable to impregnate or conceive, especially if they claim to know God is capable of providing them children.

 

[Lunam_Meam]

@Lunam_Meam

You’ve completely derailed this thread. Please start your own thread about faith and miracles if you wish to discuss this topic further.
I don’t want to speak for the OP but I don’t think your posts have helped to address his specific issues.

Others initiated the derailing, but I entertained them, which helped keep it going. I apologize.

P.S. Happy birthday!

 

[TruthSkr]

You’ve completely derailed this thread. Please start your own thread about faith and miracles if you wish to discuss this topic further.
I don’t want to speak for the OP but I don’t think your posts have helped to address his specific issues.

I think it may be helpful to point out that my wife is not trying to get pregnant. We raised our children decades ago. As for miracles, they are wonderful when they happen, but because they are so exceedingly rare we cannot lives our lives expecting or depending on one.

 

[TruthSkr]

I have been talking about men and women couples who desire children, but the woman is physically unable to do so.

If a woman is unable to conceive, but she and her counter-part desire children, and it is God’s will they have children, then it will be so, as it has been throughout the ages, as nothing is impossible with God if it is His will (Lk. 1:37). Does faith in itself guarantee a miracle? No, but if it is His will to perform a miracle, then faith is required beforehand. So, speaking generally, such couples should never lose faith and hope in having children, because God may perform a miracle if its His will, and He sees they have faith.

My wife is not trying to get pregnant. We raised our children decades ago.

 

[OraLabora]

To assume that would be a lack of faith in His Word that nothing is impossible with Him if it is His will (Lk. 1:37).

It’s not a lack of faith. It’s not falling into magical thinking.

A joke: a pastor lived in a area with a sudden flash flood. As the floodwaters rose, a fireman came to rescue the pastor; he refused help saying “God will save me”. The waters continue to rise, and now he’s on the second floor of the rectory. A rescuer in a rowboat comes by and says “padre, please get in the boat, the waters are continuing to rise”. He replies “no need, God will save me”. Then, he’s up on the roof as the waters continue to rise, and the army sends a helicopter. A rescue basket winched down and a soldier with a megaphone yells at him to get in the basket to be winched and flown away to safety. Again, he says “no need, God will save me”.

Of course the padre drowns. When he finally meets God in heaven, he berates him for not rescuing him. God replies “what do you mean: I sent you a fireman, a rowboat and a helicopter!!!”.

True anecdote: a bipolar monk had a manic episode and he left the abbey one night in -15C weather. He walked 17 km to a local charismatic community, in sandals with bare feet and only his habit. He arrived with frostbitten hands and feet. The community started to pray over him. The monk relating the story said “those stupid idiots: he didn’t need prayer, he needed them to call 911 presto!!!”. They did get around to that, but he nearly lost his hands and feet. They should have called first, then prayed.

The point is God uses the instruments He created here on Earth to effect His works. He expects us to use them, not fall to magical thinking, which is not a Catholic thing at all.

 

[TruthSkr]

We have discussed different positions in the past. While my wife did not feel there were any that could work in her situation it may be worth having the conversation again. Thank you for suggesting it.

 

[goout]

It has been nearly four years since my wife and I last had sexual intercourse because of physical disability. We are able to have sex, but not intercourse and it is taking a toll. Our relationship is good but living such a long time with no sexual intimacy is torture. I try my best to not think about sex and to suffer through the temptations until they pass. But it is wearing me down. At any one time I can say no to temptation but over time it just gets harder to deal with and I don’t know how much longer I can endure this. Last night I had sex dreams and and the sexual desire that comes with them is painful to endure. My wife does not understand or agree with the Church’s position that marital sex must include intercourse and thinks I’m crazy for going along with it. She is not even able to conceive if we had intercourse because of a hysterectomy she had many years ago. I have gotten to the point that I seriously question the Church’s position on this because it is not a normal way for a married couple who still desire each other to live. No other Christian religion has such a strict rule on this and considering the awful way the Church handled the sex scandal I have begun to question its ability to even make such a moral pronouncement. What do you all say?

Find a good priest, one that you trust and has good wise judgment. Listen to that priest and take counsel if he is available.

Everyone must go through this at some point. Wife and I are now at middle age and it is also an issue. It’s difficult but virtue takes a lot of practice and is worth it.

 

[TruthSkr]

Thank you for your suggestion. It is difficult to find such a priest as many really don’t know about this subject area and seem to fly by the seats of their pants. I do know one priest who seems knowledgeable and have spoken with him. I have come to realize from these discussions that my biggest problem is lack of trust in the Church because of various things that have occurred in my life and especially my wife’s.

 

[CathBoy1]

but He has never grown back a member or an organ.

Luke 22:51
But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.

Also see the story of Our Lady of The Hands:

https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/2019/06/28/101839-icon-of-the-mother-of-god-of-the-three-hands

From the article:

The Icon of the Mother of God, “Of the Three Hands”: In the eighth century during the time of the Iconoclasts, Saint John of Damascus (December 4) was zealous in his veneration of holy icons. Because of this, he was slandered by the emperor and iconoclast Leo III the Isaurian (717-740), who informed the Damascus caliph that Saint John was committing treasonous acts against him. The caliph gave orders to cut off the hand of the monk and take it to the marketplace. Towards evening Saint John, having asked the caliph for the cut-off hand, put it to its joint and fell to the ground before the icon of the Mother of God. The monk begged Our Lady to heal the hand, which had written in defense of Orthodoxy. After long prayer he fell asleep and saw in a dream that the All-Pure Mother of God had turned to him promising him quick healing.

Before this the Mother of God bid him toil without fail with this hand. Having awakened from sleep, Saint John saw that his hand was unharmed. In thankfulness for this healing Saint John placed on the icon a hand fashioned of silver, from which the icon received its name “Of Three Hands.” (Some iconographers, in their ignorance, have mistakenly depicted the Most Holy Theotokos with three arms and three hands.) According to Tradition, Saint John wrote a hymn of thanksgiving to the Mother of God: “All of creation rejoices in You, O Full of Grace,” which appears in place of the hymn “It is Truly Meet” in the Liturgy of Saint Basil the Great.