sexual abuse by protestant ministers

[jen_fla]

We can look at all the pretty charts and graphs and ponder the universe, but pedophillia is still a crime. I have read many reports to include but not limited to The City of Philadelphia grand jury indicted the Philadelphia archdiocese in a 418-page report

philadelphiadistrictattor…es/1/index.htm

detailing rampant pedophilia and sexual abuse and The John Jay study. Folks with all due respect, I can tell you both reports do not tell me that all is well in the church and for children.

The clinical separation of homosexuality and child molesting was acknowledged by the appearance of the words “pedophilia” and “pedophile.” From the Oxford English Dictionary:
Pædophilia. An abnormal, esp. sexual, love of young children.

1906 H. ELLIS Stud. Psychol. Sex V. i. 11 Paidophilia or the love of children . . . may be included under this head [sc. abnormality]. 1926 Med. Jrnl. & Rec. CXXIV. 161/1 One must keep clearly in mind in dealing with pedophilia the distinction between that mediating homosexuality, and the much more pure perversion which is our subject. . . . Hence pædophiliac, -philic adjs., pertaining to or characterized by pædophilia; also as n., a pædophilic person.

1927 Psychoanal. Review XIV. 191 It is only in rare cases that one encounters an individual who has pedophilic predilections and at the same time is suffering from venereal disease. Ibid., Krafft-Ebing . . . in his attempt at psychological explanation falls back on ‘a morbid disposition only’ on the part of the pedophalic [sic] as the motivating factor.
1960 Spectator 8 July 69 The . . . survey . . . shows the paedophiliac to be a type altogether distinct from the adult-seeking homosexual. .

Kathryn Conroy is assistant dean of Columbia University’s School of Social Work. She recently pointed out in The New York Times, “What is forgotten in all of the hysteria about priest sexual abuse is that pedophilia is about a sexual attraction to children (most often, regardless of their sex) and about access.” Dr. Conroy also made the most pertinent point:

Reliable studies show that pedophiles (those adults who sexually abuse children) are overwhelmingly heterosexual. In fact, homosexuals are statistically underrepresented as those who sexually abuse children. . . .
Further, women have far lower rates of sexually abusing children than men do.

The legal status of pederasty in most countries is currently determined by whether or not the “child” has reached the local age of consent. When illegal, like in the United States, law enforcement treats it as child sexual abuse.

At this point, No one can say that pedophillia in the church did not happen, so It appears to me the John Jay study is more about minimizing the damage (charts -graphs - age of the abused child 0 to 15 years of age is somehow a deciding factor?) than actually do something about the pedophillia. There is no defense for splitting hairs here. No one is buying it.

We need to take care of our own house first before pointing fingers at others. The pot and the kettle.

1. nobody said these charts are pretty and i think everyone here is quite aware at how serious any abuse is. please show me where i or anyone on this thread for that matter said that pedophilia is not a crime. you can’t because nobody did.
2. i do not know why you quoted me and then proceeded to make a case against homosexuality having anything to do with pedophilia. you are preaching to the choir as i do not think there is a link nor have i ever insinuated such. i also believe there is no link between being celibate and pedophilia. please read post #90 and you will see we are in agreement. there is no gay bashing going on here and not that it matters to the topic, but many of my friends are gay and i love them dearly.
3. you are correct in that the law views pedophilia (prepubescent children) differently as opposed to sexual abuse to teenagers. they both are evil, but the media has branded Catholic priests as pedophilias and according to many reports and a non-Catholic professor at penn state that researched and wrote a book on this topic, found that Catholic priests are least likely to commit this act. now don’t get me wrong, ONE priest doing this or ONE priest covering this up is unacceptable, but unfortunately it is a tragic fact that these sickos walk among us.
4. who ever said that pedophilia never happened in the CC? not me. not any other poster.
5. no is buying what? what am i trying to sell?
6. your link does not work. try again.

 

[jen_fla]

this is a Holy time, so i’m going to take a break from this thread, but i do have one last thing to say about the media’s handling of this. sorry that it is off topic but the abuse cases were mentioned recently and they tied the Pope to the hitler youth controversy again.

recently stephen colbert brought up the scandals. he did point out that these were all allegations against the Pope and that nothing had actually been proven, but then it appeared as though he threw P Benedict under the bus by stating that he was in the hitler youth. while that is a true fact he left out some crucial information.

1. every young german had to join by law. he did not choose to do so. he was never a member of the nazi party.

Some 80 to 90 percent of Germans joined the Hitler Youth and refusing to sign up could mean being sent to a youth ‘‘reeducation camp,’’ akin to a concentration camp, said Volker Dahm, director of Nazi-era research for Munich’s Institute for Contemporary History. *

1. he eventually deserted. whether or not the war was dying down and this was easy for him to do or a brave feat that could have taken his life i can not say with certainty.
2. Pope Benedict had a younger cousin with down sydrome that was taken away by the nazis as there was some new government regulation where parents couldn’t keep mentally disabled children at home. they never saw him again, so most likely he was murdered.
3. it is cruel and unfair to link a man to something he so vehemently was against (interviews with many neighbors all attest to the fact that PB and his family were against the nazis.)

so for stephen to insinuate that he was a willing supporter of the nazis is really upsetting and surprising. not only is he a Catholic, but he also teaches/taught Catholic catechism! i love his humor and usually he does defend the faith, but i don’t know why he threw that in his segment. i’d like to say he was throwing satire at how the media handles all things Catholic, but it sure did not come off that way and if so it was just too subtle.

he did an interview in time out new york where he said:
*
I love my Church, and I’m a Catholic who was raised by intellectuals, who were very devout. I was raised to believe that you could question the Church and still be a Catholic. What is worthy of satire is the misuse of religion for destructive or political gains. That’s totally different from the Word, the blood, the body and the Christ. His kingdom is not of this earth.*

maybe there is already another thread on this. rather confusing.

at any rate, may everyone have a blessed week. much peace and love to everyone of all faiths!

 

[joe_clark]

this is a Holy time, so i’m going to take a break from this thread, but i do have one last thing to say about the media’s handling of this. sorry that it is off topic but the abuse cases were mentioned recently and they tied the Pope to the hitler youth controversy again.

recently stephen colbert brought up the scandals. he did point out that these were all allegations against the Pope and that nothing had actually been proven, but then it appeared as though he threw P Benedict under the bus by stating that he was in the hitler youth. while that is a true fact he left out some crucial information.

1. every young german had to join by law. he did not choose to do so. he was never a member of the nazi party.

Some 80 to 90 percent of Germans joined the Hitler Youth and refusing to sign up could mean being sent to a youth ‘‘reeducation camp,’’ akin to a concentration camp, said Volker Dahm, director of Nazi-era research for Munich’s Institute for Contemporary History. *

1. he eventually deserted. whether or not the war was dying down and this was easy for him to do or a brave feat that could have taken his life i can not say with certainty.
2. Pope Benedict had a younger cousin with down sydrome that was taken away by the nazis as there was some new government regulation where parents couldn’t keep mentally disabled children at home. they never saw him again, so most likely he was murdered.
3. it is cruel and unfair to link a man to something he so vehemently was against (interviews with many neighbors all attest to the fact that PB and his family were against the nazis.)

so for stephen to insinuate that he was a willing supporter of the nazis is really upsetting and surprising. not only is he a Catholic, but he also teaches/taught Catholic catechism! i love his humor and usually he does defend the faith, but i don’t know why he threw that in his segment. i’d like to say he was throwing satire at how the media handles all things Catholic, but it sure did not come off that way and if so it was just too subtle.

he did an interview in time out new york where he said:
*
I love my Church, and I’m a Catholic who was raised by intellectuals, who were very devout. I was raised to believe that you could question the Church and still be a Catholic. What is worthy of satire is the misuse of religion for destructive or political gains. That’s totally different from the Word, the blood, the body and the Christ. His kingdom is not of this earth.*

maybe there is already another thread on this. rather confusing.

at any rate, may everyone have a blessed week. much peace and love to everyone of all faiths!

I agree and I also love my church and that is why I will always ask the questions that are needed to be asked. The slander (nazi) against the church is also unecessary and wrong because it diverts attention where it needs to be focused. There are real problems that need immediate attention and correction. The following article below in every major newspaper about the Vatican is going to cite (immunity) a legal way out -refuting instead of adequately correcting the events of abuse… saddens me.

If it is true that the Vatican is citing immunity, they will also lock themselves out from going anywhere near it lest they be tied to the abuse cases. This also means they will not do anything to completely correct the sexual abuse. WE will hear about the power of prayer and to pray for the victims, but this alone will not correct or prevent the problems. This is not the correction that is needed. The church must do what they have taught us to do ,if we were left in this situation and a church leader. This is what perplexes and puzzles catholics who love the Lord and the church. Thy will be and should be done.

www.philly.com/…/20100331_Vatican_to_cite_immunity_in_abuse_case.html

 

[twopekinguys]

These numbers arent even close to the 4,392 priests identified in the John Jay report alone. If you bring in Ireland, Brazil and other countries, that number rockets. The figures are worse still when you add nuns and religious brothers to the figures.

(I defy anyone to read the testimonies of the victims of the Daughters of Charity and the Christian Brothers and not shed a tear!).

I’m not sure such comprisons are helpful in any way to the Catholic Church.

Im certain ALL churchs have their sexual deviants.

The issue at the heart of the abuse in the Catholic church is the superhuman lengths all those involved went to to cover the abuse up - even if that meant the suicide of the victim!!!

It seemed like a case of by all means necessary to prevent scandal at all costs.

No other church appears to have gone to the same lengths as the Catholic church to do this. And I use ‘‘appears’’ advisedly.

Take a look at these figures. Keep in mind this is from only three insurance companies, and are US related.

Like you said, if you bring Ireland and Brazil into these figures, then it would appear the protestants are in pretty much the same boat.

“The Associated Press reported recently that three insurance companies receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, challenging the assumption that clergy sexual abuse is an exclusively Catholic problem that does not take place in other churches.”

ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=9149

260 X 30 = 7800 (260 cases per year for 30 years) Seems the protestants have some bad numbers themselves now don’t they?

Then you have the Southern Baptist Council (SBC) refusing to set up a sex offender database. That sure seems like a way to cover up abuse to me. But then again, that is only one example, I’m sure there are more.

abpnews.com/content/view/3334/104/

 

[Susan_Mary]

Hold on here.

Your defense of the inexcusable behavior of Catholic clergy is `Protestants have people who do it too.’ That is no defense: that is deflection.

Here is the difference:
Protestants: in the vast majority of cases, perpetrators end up in handcuffs.
Catholic: perpetrators generally do not end up in handcuffs, but rather have it dealt with, or not, internally and covered up.

If the Vatican would direct that anyone who had molested a kid should be reported to the law, abuse would decrease, and the Catholic Church as an organization would merit being respected on this point. Practicing Catholics are a great contribution to the Lord’s work, but on this one point, the Vatican needs to step up for Catholics.

They do it too' is an excuse adolescents like to pull when they get caught doing something they should not. When I was in school, it did not hold water.’

You’re misinformed. Not only is the Protestant sex abuse worse that the Catholic they are not being reported.

From: foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286153,00.html

***Associated Press report that the three major insurance companies for Protestant Churches in America say they typically receive 260 reports each year of minors being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, staff, or other church-related relationships.

In light of the sex abuse scandal that rocked the Catholic Church beginning five years ago, religious and victims’ rights organizations have been seeking this type of data for years. It has been hard to come by since Protestant Churches are more de-centralized than the Catholic Church.

Responding to heavy media scrutiny, the Catholic Church has reported that since 1950, 13,000 “credible accusations” have been brought against Catholic clerics (about 228 per year.) The fact that this number includes all credible accusations, not just those that have involved insurance companies, and still is less than the number of cases in Protestant churches reported by just three insurance companies, should be making front page of The New York Times and the network evening news. It’s not.

---

From: mercatornet.com/articles/view/mora/

***According to studies by Jenkins, if one compares the Catholic Church in the United States to the major Protestant denominations, one discovers that the presence of paedophiles – depending on the denominations – is from two to ten times higher for the major Protestant denominations compared to Catholic priests. ***

Pastor paedophile abuses are not being reported to the police.

See here: cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/22/national/main2503034.shtml and here: stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm for examples.

And the best warning for those segments of society and denominations in Christianity who don’t confront their own skeletons, woe to them!

 

[Hiskid1973]

That is the one thing I like about protestantism. I’ve seen cases where a pastor is having a relationship with a woman (single even; the pastor was single as well) But since he was counseling this woman the relationship was inappropriate.

3 p.m. relationship is discovered

4 p.m. synod called by church council president

4:15 p.m. church council members called for emergency meeting

7 p.m. church council meeting

7:30 p.m. pastor is fired

7:45 p.m. synod called and call placed for new pastor

The pastor was not stripped of his credentials, but the reason for his firing was noted in his file and is shared with any congregation that may call for him. Individual Church councils can decide if they will hire him or not. None of this hiding him and shuffling him around.

We just experienced this the end of last year…Our assistant pastor was “helping” a worker in our daycare through her divorce…He was spotted by a church member alone with this woman out and about town…Pastor confronted him about it and offered a chance for repentance.The bishop over our area was called in…The assistant pastor chose to continue the adulterous situation and was put out of the church…It all went down over a period of a week…People in our congregation were shocked when they found out and very few complained…He was a very caring man and was very much appreciated…Moral: Sin is crouching at each of our doors, we make the decision whether to allow it in or not…This breach, if not dealt will infect the whole body…The church of Corinth was given instruction on how the keep the church healthy by purging of those who refuse repentance and continue in sin…We even as individuals are to live above reproach in this wicked and perverse generation…We arent even to hang with someone who calls us a brother, yet continues in getting drunk, or sexual sins or is a liar ect…How much more so should leadership be setting an example…It’s time for housecleaning in the body of Christ…

 

[Hiskid1973]

Do protestant ministers lose their salvation by committing sexual abuse?

God know the heart and will judge accordingly…The unrepentant should be removed as to not damage the local ecclesia…We are to be above reproach…Not even to hang around who calls himself a “brother” yet continues as getting drunk, involved in sexual sins , liars excetra…Leaven does much damaged as it spreads and infects…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

There is a heck of a lot of tribalism, our team vs. their team, stuff going on in this thread. Bottom line is the Catholic Church knowlingly covered up and shuffled priests to avoid scandal. That’s sinful, unconscionable, sickening. The Pope seems to have buried his head in the sand about a lot of this, was slow to act, priests have been put in positions where they should’ve been removed. Many of these creeps should’ve been walking out in handcuffs. This is a management protecting management type cover-up. Why must we point out the sins of Protestants or other ecclesiastical bodies and cry the media persecution blues? The media should absolutely stay on this story, keep the Church honest, and make sure justice ensues. I have no problem with it. This “sticking up for the pope” stuff is frustrating. Imagine if it were your little son or daughter being violated!! Imagine if it were your kid being raped, fondled, invaded, psychologically terrorized?! Imagine the diabolical violation going on here and then the desire to move these terrorists of little children to other dioceses? Or the pope hears about an abuse case and it takes seven long years to defrock the creep? Or a priest molests tons of deaf boys? It’s just horrific. We need to just take stock, admit it’s unacceptable, stop blaming the media all the time, stop pointing fingers at Lutherans or Orthodox or Baptists and clean our own dirty laundry. I’m tired of this…

 

[rev_kevin]

There is a heck of a lot of tribalism, our team vs. their team, stuff going on in this thread. Bottom line is the Catholic Church knowlingly covered up and shuffled priests to avoid scandal. That’s sinful, unconscionable, sickening. The Pope seems to have buried his head in the sand about a lot of this, was slow to act, priests have been put in positions where they should’ve been removed. Many of these creeps should’ve been walking out in handcuffs. This is a management protecting management type cover-up. Why must we point out the sins of Protestants or other ecclesiastical bodies and cry the media persecution blues? The media should absolutely stay on this story, keep the Church honest, and make sure justice ensues. I have no problem with it. This “sticking up for the pope” stuff is frustrating. Imagine if it were your little son or daughter being violated!! Imagine if it were your kid being raped, fondled, invaded, psychologically terrorized?! Imagine the diabolical violation going on here and then the desire to move these terrorists of little children to other dioceses? Or the pope hears about an abuse case and it takes seven long years to defrock the creep? Or a priest molests tons of deaf boys? It’s just horrific. We need to just take stock, admit it’s unacceptable, stop blaming the media all the time, stop pointing fingers at Lutherans or Orthodox or Baptists and clean our own dirty laundry. I’m tired of this…

I agree with you 100%. This has happened in all denominations. It like they are trying to justify one wrong with another wrong. No matter who or what denomination has done it and who ever covered it up should face the full extent of the law. If it were up to me they would spend life in prison without a chance of getting out. The are like you said Terrorists of little children.

 

[Hiskid1973]

There is a heck of a lot of tribalism, our team vs. their team, stuff going on in this thread. Bottom line is the Catholic Church knowlingly covered up and shuffled priests to avoid scandal. That’s sinful, unconscionable, sickening. The Pope seems to have buried his head in the sand about a lot of this, was slow to act, priests have been put in positions where they should’ve been removed. Many of these creeps should’ve been walking out in handcuffs. This is a management protecting management type cover-up. Why must we point out the sins of Protestants or other ecclesiastical bodies and cry the media persecution blues? The media should absolutely stay on this story, keep the Church honest, and make sure justice ensues. I have no problem with it. This “sticking up for the pope” stuff is frustrating. Imagine if it were your little son or daughter being violated!! Imagine if it were your kid being raped, fondled, invaded, psychologically terrorized?! Imagine the diabolical violation going on here and then the desire to move these terrorists of little children to other dioceses? Or the pope hears about an abuse case and it takes seven long years to defrock the creep? Or a priest molests tons of deaf boys? It’s just horrific. We need to just take stock, admit it’s unacceptable, stop blaming the media all the time, stop pointing fingers at Lutherans or Orthodox or Baptists and clean our own dirty laundry. I’m tired of this…

Best response I read in this thread…All churches show be above reproach…

 

[Lutheranteach]

There is a heck of a lot of tribalism, our team vs. their team, stuff going on in this thread. Bottom line is the Catholic Church knowlingly covered up and shuffled priests to avoid scandal. That’s sinful, unconscionable, sickening. The Pope seems to have buried his head in the sand about a lot of this, was slow to act, priests have been put in positions where they should’ve been removed. Many of these creeps should’ve been walking out in handcuffs. This is a management protecting management type cover-up. Why must we point out the sins of Protestants or other ecclesiastical bodies and cry the media persecution blues? The media should absolutely stay on this story, keep the Church honest, and make sure justice ensues. I have no problem with it. This “sticking up for the pope” stuff is frustrating. Imagine if it were your little son or daughter being violated!! Imagine if it were your kid being raped, fondled, invaded, psychologically terrorized?! Imagine the diabolical violation going on here and then the desire to move these terrorists of little children to other dioceses? Or the pope hears about an abuse case and it takes seven long years to defrock the creep? Or a priest molests tons of deaf boys? It’s just horrific. We need to just take stock, admit it’s unacceptable, stop blaming the media all the time, stop pointing fingers at Lutherans or Orthodox or Baptists and clean our own dirty laundry. I’m tired of this…

Well put…very well put.

 

[Susan_Mary]

There is a heck of a lot of tribalism, our team vs. their team, stuff going on in this thread. Bottom line is the Catholic Church knowlingly covered up and shuffled priests to avoid scandal. That’s sinful, unconscionable, sickening. The Pope seems to have buried his head in the sand about a lot of this, was slow to act, priests have been put in positions where they should’ve been removed. Many of these creeps should’ve been walking out in handcuffs. This is a management protecting management type cover-up. Why must we point out the sins of Protestants or other ecclesiastical bodies and cry the media persecution blues? The media should absolutely stay on this story, keep the Church honest, and make sure justice ensues. I have no problem with it. This “sticking up for the pope” stuff is frustrating. Imagine if it were your little son or daughter being violated!! Imagine if it were your kid being raped, fondled, invaded, psychologically terrorized?! Imagine the diabolical violation going on here and then the desire to move these terrorists of little children to other dioceses? Or the pope hears about an abuse case and it takes seven long years to defrock the creep? Or a priest molests tons of deaf boys? It’s just horrific. We need to just take stock, admit it’s unacceptable, stop blaming the media all the time, stop pointing fingers at Lutherans or Orthodox or Baptists and clean our own dirty laundry. I’m tired of this…

I couldn’t disagree with you more. Saying the pope has “buried his head in the sand” is completely wrong and unfair!!! The media has printed an enormous amount of misinformation and out right lies about priestly sex abuse and our pope. I don’t need a bunch of anti Catholic bigots overseeing anything in the Church. The Catholic Church is the church of our Lord Jesus Christ not the church of public opinion.

You asked what it would be like to be the victim of abuse why don’t you ask yourself what it’s like to be the victim of false allegations? Where is your concern for the innocent priests and the pope who have been victims of media slander and libel?

It is the pope himself that turned the phrase “We must rid ourselves of this filth” and so he has been. You can read about all this here: socon.ca/or_bust/?p=5963

It’s time to educate yourself sir!

 

[Susan_Mary]

I agree with you 100%. This has happened in all denominations. It like they are trying to justify one wrong with another wrong. No matter who or what denomination has done it and who ever covered it up should face the full extent of the law. If it were up to me they would spend life in prison without a chance of getting out. The are like you said Terrorists of little children.

Sexual misconduct is a horrible thing. We must intervene and prosecute appropriately but those who falsely accuse should also be held accountable.

The research shows you’re right about sexual abuse being found in the Catholic Church and also, at slightly higher rates, in the Protestant denominations. And, I’m sure you’ll agree that you wouldn’t want the reputations of innocent pastors ruined by the secular media or charged by some unscrupulous scoundrel looking for a fast buck. The same is true for us. We don’t want our innocent priests or our pope, who is also innocent, libeled by the New York Times or by any other media.

Read the facts here: socon.ca/or_bust/?p=5963

 

[tweetymom]

There is a heck of a lot of tribalism, our team vs. their team, stuff going on in this thread. Bottom line is the Catholic Church knowlingly covered up and shuffled priests to avoid scandal. That’s sinful, unconscionable, sickening. The Pope seems to have buried his head in the sand about a lot of this, was slow to act, priests have been put in positions where they should’ve been removed. Many of these creeps should’ve been walking out in handcuffs. This is a management protecting management type cover-up. Why must we point out the sins of Protestants or other ecclesiastical bodies and cry the media persecution blues? The media should absolutely stay on this story, keep the Church honest, and make sure justice ensues. I have no problem with it. This “sticking up for the pope” stuff is frustrating. Imagine if it were your little son or daughter being violated!! Imagine if it were your kid being raped, fondled, invaded, psychologically terrorized?! Imagine the diabolical violation going on here and then the desire to move these terrorists of little children to other dioceses? Or the pope hears about an abuse case and it takes seven long years to defrock the creep? Or a priest molests tons of deaf boys? It’s just horrific. We need to just take stock, admit it’s unacceptable, stop blaming the media all the time, stop pointing fingers at Lutherans or Orthodox or Baptists and clean our own dirty laundry. I’m tired of this…

Gtreat post dear brother God Bless

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don’t need to be educated, Susan. And I have never been knighted so need for sir . Why do you assume I need education on the subject because I differ from you in my conclusion of the evidence? It seems you sympathize with the priests and I sympathize more with the victims. You imply that a priest can’t get a fair hearing in all this. Do you think it should’ve taken SEVEN years for that bum in Tucson, Arizona, to get defrocked? Ratzinger took that long and there is a paper trail of the molster’s bishop begging to laicize that crumb. Do you think due process should take seven years? Why are you so quick to worry more about the priest and not believe the child? Why are we so worried about defending unborn life in our Church (which I absolutely am, 100% pro-life) but once a child is born and molested you seem to think more about the priest’s rights than the victim? And why do you say, “I don’t need a bunch of anti Catholic bigots overseeing anything in the Church?” What do you mean by that? Are you saying these priests are above the law and we should let priests try priests in their own little court of law? Do you agree with all the multi-million dollar pay-outs to the families of these victims rather than just letting these priests be tried in a court of law like I would? I’m a sixth grade teacher and I’d be in the big house if I did something as heinous as this.

Also, why and how do you assume the media is libelous in their coverage of this? Is there any sin or mistake you’ll actually hold the pope accountable for? Are you at the point where he is impeccable as well as infallible? I’m blown away at your post, Susan. I don’t care if the pope has said “we must rid ourselves of this filth.” What I care about are ACTIONS, not words. He’s said many things. John Paul II, my favorite pope of all time, said similar things and he moved Cardinal Law, that horrific cardinal that knowingly moved pedophiles around to prey on children, to Rome and gave him his own parish there. It was wrong then, it’s wrong now. Why must we defend every action of the curia and vatican in order to remain good Catholics? This is tribalism. It’s like a corporation trying to cover up insider trading, taking one for the team thinking. I love Our Lord Jesus Christ just as you do, Susan, but I don’t assume all his ministers are above the law just because they say “Lord, Lord.” Come on now…

I couldn’t disagree with you more. Saying the pope has “buried his head in the sand” is completely wrong and unfair!!! The media has printed an enormous amount of misinformation and out right lies about priestly sex abuse and our pope. I don’t need a bunch of anti Catholic bigots overseeing anything in the Church. The Catholic Church is the church of our Lord Jesus Christ not the church of public opinion.

You asked what it would be like to be the victim of abuse why don’t you ask yourself what it’s like to be the victim of false allegations? Where is your concern for the innocent priests and the pope who have been victims of media slander and libel?

It is the pope himself that turned the phrase “We must rid ourselves of this filth” and so he has been. You can read about all this here: socon.ca/or_bust/?p=5963

It’s time to educate yourself sir!

 

[Hiskid1973]

It’s like a corporation trying to cover up insider trading, taking one for the team thinking. I love Our Lord Jesus Christ just as you do, Susan, but I don’t assume all his ministers are above the law just because they say “Lord, Lord.” Come on now…

This is so right on…Prot,Cath. Orhto.

 

[TEPO]

There is a heck of a lot of tribalism, our team vs. their team, stuff going on in this thread. Bottom line is the Catholic Church knowlingly covered up and shuffled priests to avoid scandal. That’s sinful, unconscionable, sickening. The Pope seems to have buried his head in the sand about a lot of this, was slow to act, priests have been put in positions where they should’ve been removed. Many of these creeps should’ve been walking out in handcuffs. This is a management protecting management type cover-up. Why must we point out the sins of Protestants or other ecclesiastical bodies and cry the media persecution blues? The media should absolutely stay on this story, keep the Church honest, and make sure justice ensues. I have no problem with it. This “sticking up for the pope” stuff is frustrating. Imagine if it were your little son or daughter being violated!! Imagine if it were your kid being raped, fondled, invaded, psychologically terrorized?! Imagine the diabolical violation going on here and then the desire to move these terrorists of little children to other dioceses? Or the pope hears about an abuse case and it takes seven long years to defrock the creep? Or a priest molests tons of deaf boys? It’s just horrific. We need to just take stock, admit it’s unacceptable, stop blaming the media all the time, stop pointing fingers at Lutherans or Orthodox or Baptists and clean our own dirty laundry. I’m tired of this…

Should priests also call the police when someone they know admits to a crime in the confessional, or do you agree that the priests should cover that up…?

 

[rev_kevin]

Sexual misconduct is a horrible thing. We must intervene and prosecute appropriately but those who falsely accuse should also be held accountable.

The research shows you’re right about sexual abuse being found in the Catholic Church and also, at slightly higher rates, in the Protestant denominations. And, I’m sure you’ll agree that you wouldn’t want the reputations of innocent pastors ruined by the secular media or charged by some unscrupulous scoundrel looking for a fast buck. The same is true for us. We don’t want our innocent priests or our pope, who is also innocent, libeled by the New York Times or by any other media.

Read the facts here: socon.ca/or_bust/?p=5963

I agree with your first sentence. Now lets look at the rest of what you said. Here we see the “but yours does it more the ours” the justification I mentioned. As far as the reputations go being ruined by the secular media, it happens all the time and not just to the pastors or priests, if one does something wrong ie. police, then it makes the whole department seem quilty. What fast buck is the secular media getting?

 

[Susan_Mary]

I don’t need to be educated, Susan…

*Why do you assume I need education on the subject because I differ from you in my conclusion of the evidence? *

What you are ssying is incorrect and could even be considered malicious. There is a social responsibility and law involved here. Knowingly writing misinformation about someone is bearing false witness it’s also against libel laws.

*It seems you sympathize with the priests and I sympathize more with the victims. You imply that a priest can’t get a fair hearing in all this. *

I sympathize with the innocent including clergy who have been falsely accused.

*Do you think it should’ve taken SEVEN years for that bum in Tucson, Arizona, to get defrocked? Ratzinger took that long and there is a paper trail of the molster’s bishop begging to laicize that crumb. *

I’m not sure of what Tucson priest you’re talking about. You didn’t say. Instead I’ll talk about The allegation against Fr. Murphy of St. John’s School for the Deaf in Milwaukee. Father Murphy’s time there spanned 20 years, from 1955-1974, according to The Times’s article. The Vatican was informed of the problem in 1996, over 40 YEARS after the first allegations were made and over 20 years since the last abuse was reported. On page 15 of the New York Times the NYT admit that the Milwaukee Police Department opted not to pursue charges against Fr. Murphy. What does that tell you about the case? During the time of the actual abuse, the local dioceses did not discipline the priest, which was their total prerogative, nor did they inform the Vatican during this time. It was normal for these matters to be handled by the Archdiocese of the area where misconduct occurred. That didn’t change until 2001. It was not until then did Cardinal Ratzinger became aware of the extent of sexual misconduct. That was when Cardinal Ratzinger, in Italian, spoke of the need to get rid of the filth in the Church during his Good Friday mediation. Shortly afterward Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI. One of the first acts the new pope did was to reopen sex abuses cases. That’s when the media started calling him “God’s Rottweiler” because he was so ferocious in his pursuit of justice in these cases. Now the media (and you) are saying he was part of the problem. You can’t have it both ways!

Why are you so quick to worry more about the priest and not believe the child? Why are we so worried about defending unborn life in our Church (which I absolutely am, 100% pro-life) but once a child is born and molested you seem to think more about the priest’s rights than the victim?

I’m concerned about truth, accuracy and justice. I will not tolerate my pope being slandered.
*
And why do you say, “I don’t need a bunch of anti Catholic bigots overseeing anything in the Church?” What do you mean by that?*

Once the cases are investigated it’s a police matter. Why would YOU trust secular media with the business of the Church? I’ve already demonstrated the falsehoods manufactured by the NYT and that’s not even the tip of the iceberg. Do you really think we’d still have legal abortion if the media printed the truth about what abortion really is? It is a social construct.

*Do you agree with all the multi-million dollar pay-outs to the families of these victims rather than just letting these priests be tried in a court of law like I would? *

Settlements were kept quiet for the benefit of the victim not the abuser. Settlements are handled same way as Protestant denomination, Jewish etc in these matters. Nothing new here.

*Also, why and how do you assume the media is libelous in their coverage of this? *

It’s not an assumption of guilt. All the evidence is available. Much of it is organized for handy access here: socon.ca/or_bust/?p=5963

*Is there any sin or mistake you’ll actually hold the pope accountable for? *

The pope is not guilty of any crime. Nor has he made any mistakes. He is a great leader and a wonderful pope.

*Are you at the point where he is impeccable as well as infallible? I’m blown away at your post, Susan. I don’t care if the pope has said “we must rid ourselves of this filth.” What I care about are ACTIONS, not words. *

You are blown away by truth. This pope is all about ‘ACTION.’ I have given you a good start at learning the truth. Be careful not to bear false witness! Woe to you if you do!

*He’s said many things. John Paul II, my favorite pope of all time, said similar things and he moved Cardinal Law, that horrific cardinal that knowingly moved pedophiles around to prey on children, to Rome and gave him his own parish there. It was wrong then, it’s wrong now. *

You are misinformed about Cardinal Law there is much more to know but I don’t have to time to educate you now.

*Why must we defend every action of the curia and vatican in order to remain good Catholics? *

You should defend the truth. You just didn’t happen to know what the truth was. Not surprising with all the misinformation being throw about. If you want accurate news on all things Catholic use this site: lifesitenews.com/ it’s one of the best in the world and it’s free.

I have only given you a taste of the truth. It’s up to you to educate yourself. Use the sites I’ve given you. They are nicely organized and easy to use. Once you are fully informed do the right thing and defend your Holy Father.

We want to weed out the filth not the holy!

 

[Susan_Mary]

I agree with your first sentence. Now lets look at the rest of what you said. Here we see the “but yours does it more the ours” the justification I mentioned. As far as the reputations go being ruined by the secular media, it happens all the time and not just to the pastors or priests, if one does something wrong ie. police, then it makes the whole department seem quilty. What fast buck is the secular media getting?

The citations for clerical sexual misconduct are available here: catholicleague.org/rer.php?topic=The+Sex+Abuse+Scandal&id=110
The cases against Protestant denominations are slightly higher that the ones in the Catholic Church.

The ‘fast buck’ is being made by false lawsuits filed by unscrupulous individuals and their lawyers trying to play sex abuse victim at the expense of the Church. It already happened in Newfoundland. Many of these cases are so old some of the priests are now deceased. How can priests defend themselves if they’re dead?