Sexual History & Marriage

[JCPhoenix]

I understand your feelings.

I broke up with my boyfriend of 3 1/2 years, with whom I had been intimate. I never felt right about it and he never understood my reservations. (he had no real religious upbringing). He saw my hesitation as rejection of him. This is a very common attitude.

Anyway, he started seriously “dating” another woman who disturbingly was too much like me to be comfortable. As he and I had dogs we had adopted and I really planned to keep them myself, I maintained a friendship with him and determined to be an adult and deal with the “other woman.”

Now, please understand he had said he loved me and I was really hoping for marriage. I loved him. It was VERY difficult to see him with another woman, even after I left HIM. It still hurts…long story.

Anyway, she was like minded and understood my friendship with him due to the dogs…she also had dogs and understood my bond at that time was really more with them than with him. In fact, it was the realization that I loved the dogs more than him the caused me to come to my senses and realize that he was not the man for me!

Then he got engaged…after 4 months! THAT was a double edged sword in the back. I no longer wanted to be with him…but to so clearly be rejected as a wife when we had been together for 3+ years…ouch. I will not go to the wedding, although I pray for their happiness.

I am terrified of what my own potential husband will think of me. I do maintain a distant friendship with this man. We can get on the phone and chat for awhile, and I can honestly say that I’m not attracted to him. It’s over. I might be willing to meet him for coffee as it’s been a few years. A few weeks ago I invited him to paintball as we needed more people. Truth be told, I was both hoping he’d be on my team as he is military, and that I might have a chance to shoot him if he ended up on the other team. OK, vindictiveness.

Here’s what I’m tryhing to say…get to the root of WHY she is friends with her “ex lovers.” Friendship is a beautiful thing for the right reasons. I’m happy to know that my ex boyfriend is there in an emergency…although I wouldn’t generally count on him. But he’s a professional contact for what I do, I’m a contact for him, and neither one of us thinks the other is horrible. We did not have a bad breakup with lots of drama.

When I meet a date I do ask about past relationships, how they ended, and if they have any relationship now. I am looking for stability and the ability to forgive. I am looking for the resons and real definition of any friendships maintained.

Get to the bottom of what she feels for these “ex lovers”.

I have more information so would be happy to discuss it in private if you e-mail me. This can be complicated.

The best thing to do is pray for discernment. If she is your Intended…the trust in God. Unlike a human being, He won’t ever steer you wrong.

 

[catechistben]

Thank you all for your feedback on this issue. I should clarify a couple of points though:

I did not mean to imply that I had the power to forgive her of her sins. Clearly if she has truly confessed before God, then she has been forgiven. On the other hand, what she has done in the past does hurt me deeply.

I believe that sex is something sacred that God has created. I believe that God created sex specifically for a man and a woman to create life and share of themselves intimately in a marriage (physically, emotionally, spiritually). When sex occurs outside of that context it clearly is a distortion of what it was intended to be. This distortion causes untold damage to individuals, families, and societies. I see this first hand all the time, therefore I take sex very seriously. I want my wife to take sex very seriously and hold it in the same regard that I do. This is something that is deeply intimate and should be cherished in a loving marriage. I believe this is also very important as it relates to teaching our future children about sex and sexual morality. If we are not on the same page then this could be a major problem.

Also, I am not a virgin either. Obviously I have made mistakes as it relates to remaining chaste. The fact is though, that for many years I have applied a level of sexual morality in my lifestyle choices that I do not believe she did. I did not sleep with every girlfriend I ever had, I did not have casual sexual relationships, I did not take sex lightly, she did. We all make mistakes, we all sin, we all fall short of the glory of God. That is not what my problem is here. I simply do not want to end up married to someone who does not value sex, and hold it in high regard, as I do. It may be that my girlfriend does, and that extensive communication in this regard will bear that fact out. On the other hand, while she has confessed to God, and verbally states she is ashamed of what she has done, then why continue to maintain relationships with many of these people? That is something I cannot get past, why continue to hold on to that part of her past? It would seem to me that if someone was truly sorry for those things, they would do everything they could to get as far from it as possible.

She does not go out with these men or even see them on a regular basis. She does talk on the phone and email them on a regular basis though. There is also plenty of potential for us seeing them when we visit her girlfriends or at social gatherings. This is due to the fact that many of her former partners are part of the same circle of friends and we live in small town. There is even an instance where she is friends with a married couple, and a couple of years ago she apparently had a threesome with this couple. She is still friends with the couple and that really irks me. It bothers me not just because of the sexual contact, but also because she participated in the act of defiling someone elses marriage. My feeling is that if she was all that remorseful then she should have nothing to do with these people ever again, let alone expect me to interact with this couple as if we are all just casual friends. I have a very hard time reconciling the dichotomy of the beautiful and wonderful woman I know her as, and what she apparently was.

I have yet to talk with her about this yet because I am concerned that I will appear to be controlling by asking her why she continues these friendships. I am also concerned that if I asked her to cut off these relationship, and she did, then it would be something she would resent me for in our potential marriage.

I am not a chauvinist, I am not an egotist, I am simply an admittedly imperfect man looking for the woman that God intends for me to spend the rest of my life with. I believe that if my girlfriend is that one, then God will show me (and her) a way past this so that we can get on with his purpose for our lives together.

God Bless.

 

[Ourladyguadalup]

catechistben,

It is clear that you care deeply for this woman & saying that she seems as if she will make a good wife & mother are good, good signs. But if you continue to struggle w/the issue of forgiveness in this matter, please seek the help of a trusted priest, spiritual advisor, or therapist.

I think it is of the utmost importance to clear this matter up before the wedding. At some point, in things that are difficult for us, we just have to take a leap of faith & DO IT. Once you’re married, you’ll probably need to worry more about forgiving slights that are actually aimed at YOU.

BTW, I think she is doing you a favor by not relating the exact “details” to you. It is in the past.

Jennifer

 

[j_arden]

Ourladyguadalup:

BTW, I think she is doing you a favor by not relating the exact “details” to you. It is in the past.

This is a good point. I would go further and say that she wasn’t doing you a favor by telling you about her past in the first place and that you weren’t doing her a favor by sharing either. I understand the curiosity and the feeling that “open and honest” is the best policy but I think the costs of sharing details about past sexual/romantic relationships are far outweigh the benefits. Honesty does not require full disclosure and there is a difference between thoughtfully withholding information and hiding it. I think sharing with a potential spouse whether or not you are a virgin or have STD’s is appropriate but beyond that I can’t see what good can come from it. The idea of a spouse being sexual with another will be met with jealousy whether it’s in the past, present, or future. And it should be. Assuming the past is in fact the past, why tell the person you love something that will make him/her jealous? Why ask questions about details, e.g. how many and who, when you know the answers will hurt and make you jealous? This doesn’t just apply to past instances of genital sexuality. The same can be said about questions such as, “Who did you say, ‘I love you’ to?” and “Did you ever cheat on anyone?” Again, just to be clear, I’m talking about situations that have been repented of and dealt with by the person involved.

Allowing a partner to keep the details about past failings to him or herself shows respect and trust. It says, “If this is no longer an issue between you and God then it’s not an issue between us and I won’t ask you to relive mistakes to satisfy my curiosity.”

Does anyone have another viewpoint? Are there benefits to sharing I’m not seeing? I ask this honestly.

• JP

 

[wabrams]

There is some truth in the old saying “Ignorance is bliss.”

 

[j_arden]

Ourladyguadalup:

BTW, I think she is doing you a favor by not relating the exact “details” to you. It is in the past.

This is a good point. I would go further and say that she wasn’t doing you a favor by telling you about her past in the first place and that you weren’t doing her a favor by sharing either. I understand the curiosity and the feeling that “open and honest” is the best policy but I think the costs of sharing details about past sexual/romantic relationships are far outweigh the benefits. Honesty does not require full disclosure and there is a difference between thoughtfully withholding information and hiding it. I think sharing with a potential spouse whether or not you are a virgin or have STD’s is appropriate but beyond that I can’t see what good can come from it. The idea of a spouse being sexual with another will be met with jealousy whether it’s in the past, present, or future. And it should be. Assuming the past is in fact the past, why tell the person you love something that will make him/her jealous? Why ask questions about details, e.g. how many and who, when you know the answers will hurt and make you jealous? This doesn’t just apply to past instances of genital sexuality. The same can be said about questions such as, “Who did you say, ‘I love you’ to?” and “Did you ever cheat on anyone?” Again, just to be clear, I’m talking about situations that have been repented of and dealt with by the person involved.

Allowing a partner to keep the details about past failings to him or herself shows respect and trust. It says, “If this is no longer an issue between you and God then it’s not an issue between us and I won’t ask you to relive mistakes to satisfy my curiosity.”

Does anyone have another viewpoint? Are there benefits to sharing I’m not seeing? I ask this honestly.

Some other thoughts:

catechistben:

I believe that sex is something sacred that God has created. I believe that God created sex specifically for a man and a woman to create life and share of themselves intimately in a marriage (physically, emotionally, spiritually). When sex occurs outside of that context it clearly is a distortion of what it was intended to be. This distortion causes untold damage to individuals, families, and societies. I see this first hand all the time, therefore I take sex very seriously. I want my wife to take sex very seriously and hold it in the same regard that I do.

Have you asked her what she thinks about sex now? What she thinks now is what’s important.

Also, I am not a virgin either. Obviously I have made mistakes as it relates to remaining chaste. The fact is though, that for many years I have applied a level of sexual morality in my lifestyle choices that I do not believe she did. I did not sleep with every girlfriend I ever had, I did not have casual sexual relationships, I did not take sex lightly, she did. We all make mistakes, we all sin, we all fall short of the glory of God.

Despite that last sentence, it seems clear that you think her mistakes were worse, or maybe that your’s weren’t as bad. Maybe this is objectively so, but it’s almost irrelevant in view of what you want. You want a faithful wife with a healthy, Christian understanding of sex. You didn’t say that you also want this woman to be virginal. If you do (it seems like you might), you could do yourself a favor and be honest with yourself about that. There’s nothing wrong with this. Choosing a spouse is the most discriminating decision you can make! My sister was very commited to having her virginity be her wedding gift to her husband and decided she didn’t want to be with anyone who couldn’t reciprocate. She’s now happily married to a great guy. Some of her friends thought she was being ridiculous and discriminating against most guys, as though she rejected any non-virgin single guy as a person and not just as a potential spouse for her.

 

[j_arden]

. . . cont.

My feeling is that if she was all that remorseful then she should have nothing to do with these people ever again, let alone expect me to interact with this couple as if we are all just casual friends. I have a very hard time reconciling the dichotomy of the beautiful and wonderful woman I know her as, and what she apparently was.

The only difference is that now she has experienced more grace than before. If you have a problem with continuing any sort of relationship with the people from her past you are free to ask her to cut them off. However, she would be doing that as a favor to you, not because there is an absolute moral standard that requires her to do so. What is the context of these relationships? Given what you said about your small community, it sounds like she would have to cut off a lot of her social circle to exclude a few. If she won’t cut them off that doesn’t mean that she is maintaining these aquaintances with ulterior motives.

I am also concerned that if I asked her to cut off these relationship, and she did, then it would be something she would resent me for in our potential marriage.

This is very astute.

I am not a chauvinist, I am not an egotist, I am simply an admittedly imperfect man looking for the woman that God intends for me to spend the rest of my life with. I believe that if my girlfriend is that one, then God will show me (and her) a way past this so that we can get on with his purpose for our lives together.

How true! You are seeking to do the right thing and God will bless your efforts!

Many Prayers,

JP

 

[space_ghost]

Marriage is about love, acceptance, trust, and the greatest of these is love… love is forgiving 7 times 70…

it appears to me that she has moved on (according to you), the issue appears to lie with you…

you say you love her till it hurts… can you truly love her with out acceptance of her past, and trust in her for the future?

There is a certain roll of the dice with all relationships…

Columbus took a chance… how about you? ready for the voyage of your life?

get up off your kiester, take her by the hand and get on with your futures, life is too short to ponder (greek/hebrew for whining) too long… good luck my friend…

 

[carrieloon]

Ben,
It seems to me that the real problem is not what she did in her past but that the two of you have different ideas on the importance and significance of sex.
You need to address this NOW before you pop the question.

If she does not share your views on the sacredness of sexuality then you really need to let the relationship go.

Sexual difficulties between a husband and wife can be devastating to the marriage. Entering into a union when you know that your beloved does not share your views is dangerous, imo.

Your problem seems to be with how she views these acts in the PRESENT, not the fact that she did them in the past.

Be sure and work through this so that you are sure that you both have similar ideas about sex within marriage!

Best of luck,

Carrie

 

[Trelow]

Just wait, as you get older and grow in your relationship the past will become less important.

Enjoy each others companionship, and if you are not now, by all means have a chaste relationship until you get married(if in fact that is where you are going).
And if you do plan on getting married I strongly recommend that you both take NFP classes.

But back to my point,. see her for who she is and who she can be, not who she was. That is our calling in relationships.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

First off, it would be a mistake to marry her before you are completely at peace with her past (and yours). Uncreconciled disturbances are little chestnuts that are held in the back of one’s mind to be thrown to injure the other party (this I know from firsthand experience )

I also believe it is inappropriate for her to remain even casual friends with her former boyfriends. Knowing that she had romantic ties to these men can only cause contention in a marriage.

Perhaps a little Catholic marriage counseling even before the marriage is a good idea.

I’m sorry she felt she had to let you know all of this. If it doesn’t affect you, she should have kept it to herself.

 

[catechistben]

Thanks again to everyone, this is really good stuff. All of your comments have continued to prompt my thought process in this regard.

I agree with just about everything everyone has said, except for the whole “ignorance is bliss” concept. IMHO ignorance, is simply that, IGNORANCE. Ignorance is never ever something I think that should be relished or even accepted. I would much rather know the truth and reality of any situation, however painful, than live a life of mistaken perceptions and realities. I believe this is especially true as it relates to marriage. Don’t get me wrong…I don’t think anyone needs to start handing our line item details, but I believe that straightforward honesty is much easier to deal with than lots of blank spaces and unanswered questions. Secrets in a marriage can be devastating and destructive, the truth will almost always be revealed at some point. I would much rather know what I am dealing with now than to find out years down the road after our lives have been intertwined and sacred lifelong commitments made. In addition, when you are getting to know a potential spouse is it not absolutely crucial to truly know and understand where that person has come from in order to know who and what they really are? Is not crucial to determining what they really stand for, and what their convictions are? I would think the answer is an obvious, “Yes!”

What I come away from this discussion knowing is:

1. I must communicate my feelings on this with my girlfriend.
2. We must determine together whether or not we are on the same page as it relates to our views and beliefs about sex.
3. I must address the issue of communication with past partners and her reasons for continuing these friendly relationships.
4. I must determine within myself whether or not I can get past all of these issues 100% in order to be sure they will not be issues once we are married.
5. I must continue to pray earnestly and seek wise counsel.
6. All of these point must be addressed prior to engagement.

I do love her so very much and she has been an absolute blessing to my life. Most importantly though, I want to make the right decisions according to God’s plan for my life. Thank you again for your advice from a Christian/Catholic perspective.
God Bless,

Ben

 

[PookieTooth]

Can she live with your previous sexual history?

 

[John_of_Woking]

catechistben:

I have been dating a wonderful Catholic woman for some time now, and we love each other deeply. I have been very seriously pondering the possibility of requesting her hand in marriage. We are both in our 30’s and are marriage minded at this point in our lives. She is a beautiful person both inside and out, and I have many good reasons to believe that she would be a wonderful Mother and Wife. We enjoy one another immensely and I know that she has had similar thoughts of marriage as well.

I have one nagging problem that I cannot seem to get off of my mind, and it is frankly the only thing that has kept me from “popping the question”. The problem is that she has a rather prolific sexual history. I don’t mean that she is just not a virgin, I mean that she has slept with a lot of men. Most of this occurred at a time in her life when she was not active in the Church, but she has had sexual relationships with men since becoming Catholic as well. She has sought forgiveness for these acts through Confession and seems to be sorry for her previous behavior. On the other hand, she is also stil friends with some of these previous sex partners. I just cannot seem to get past her long sexual history…it bothers me. She has not been exceptionally forthcoming with me about a lot of this, but over the course of our relationship it has become quite obvious that she has quite a past.

Please don’t get me wrong, I realize that we all make mistakes (myself very much included). I also do not necessarily think it is realistic to expect my wife to be a virgin. I would be hypocritical to hold my wife (or future wife) to a higher standard than I have behaved myself. At the same time, my own personal ideal would be to have a wife that did not have such an extensive sexual history. It is hurtful to me when I think about the sexual relationships she has had in the past. On several occassions we have found ourselves in situations where we around a former partner of hers, and it is very difficult for me to deal with. It is just driving me crazy because I love her so much, yet this hurts me as well.

I would very much like some Catholic/Christian feedback on this issue. Am I making too much over nothing? Should I let the past stay in the past and just “get over it”? Should I simply attempt to forgive her as Christ has forgiven her? Or would I be better off moving on and waiting for a woman that fits my “criteria”? Other than this issue she is a wonderful person…What should I do? What would be the Catholic Church’s position on this issue?

Thanks in advance for your help and God Bless!
Ben

Dump her if she is too friendly with them still. I am sorry but she should sacrifice her friendships for you. It is better the sunset “does not still see you angry because the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion waiting for someone to eat”

 

[catechistben]

PookieTooth:

Can she live with your previous sexual history?

Yes she can. Can you clarify further on your point behind the question?

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

I suppose Pookie is trying to make some point with that question. Seriously, there is no point. Anyone who has participated in swinging is questionable to marry. Especially if she is still friends with that couple.

 

[Marcellinus]

catechistben:

I would very much like some Catholic/Christian feedback on this issue. Am I making too much over nothing? Should I let the past stay in the past and just “get over it”? Should I simply attempt to forgive her as Christ has forgiven her? Or would I be better off moving on and waiting for a woman that fits my “criteria”? Other than this issue she is a wonderful person…What should I do? What would be the Catholic Church’s position on this issue?

Thanks in advance for your help and God Bless!
Ben

First of all, Ben, I know you mean well. Everyone wishes the person they are going to marry is a pinnacle of perfection. Secondly, I’m an unmarried virgin male teenager who probably knows less about these kind of subjects than anyone else. But just from a solely Catholic perspective some of the things you have said make me squirm.

Why are you dwelling on your g/f’s sins that have already been forgiven? Isn’t God’s forgiveness of her enough for you? She has made mistakes; she wasn’t immaculately concieved, just like you and me. From everything you said so far this young lady has had a great change of heart and is trying to do God’s will. If its good enough for God, then it should be good enough for you.

This does not necessarily mean that you should marry her, indeed from what you’ve said it almost sounds like you’re barely consulting God in the matter. Why not let Him decide for you? Marriage is not simply a question of finding the person you like most, it is about finding the person God has in mind for you.

 

[catechistben]

Marcellinus:

Why are you dwelling on your g/f’s sins that have already been forgiven? Isn’t God’s forgiveness of her enough for you? She has made mistakes; she wasn’t immaculately concieved, just like you and me. From everything you said so far this young lady has had a great change of heart and is trying to do God’s will. If its good enough for God, then it should be good enough for you.

I understand what you are saying Marcellinus, but I am really not dwelling on her sins. I am earnestly trying to determine if she truly has has the change of heart you mentioned. If she is forgiven by God that is really all that matters. On the other hand if she has not has this change in her heart then the results could be disastrous for our future potential marriage. From one guy to another, how would you really handle it if your potential wife was bringing that kind of baggage with her?

Marcellinus:

This does not necessarily mean that you should marry her, indeed from what you’ve said it almost sounds like you’re barely consulting God in the matter. Why not let Him decide for you? Marriage is not simply a question of finding the person you like most, it is about finding the person God has in mind for you.

Again, that is the whole point here, GOD, and what HE has planned. I have prayed quite a bit about this and will continue to do so. You are right that I should let GOD make this decision, but knowing what he has planned for you is not always that simple…is it? Thank you for your encouragement.

 

[Marcellinus]

Sorry about the misconceptions. I think I understand where you are coming from now, in which case this is more of a prudential judgement which you would be better at making than anyone else.

 

[catechistben]

Lilyofthevalley:

I suppose Pookie is trying to make some point with that question. Seriously, there is no point. Anyone who has participated in swinging is questionable to marry. Especially if she is still friends with that couple.

Thanks Lily…Yes, that is a biggie for me. Participating in the defiling of someone elses marriage seems to take on additional weight above and beyond the run of the mill fornication. Again, if she has been forgiven by God then that is all that matters. It will be important though to be sure that she realizes how serious and sacred marriage truly is.