Sexual Oreintation Discrimination

[buffalo]

This is a great example of exactly how Christians are able to build a wall between themselves and so many homosexuals who may be seeking help. It is so much easier to not offer a Christian hand to people of a certain “group” when you are able to convince yourself that every person among that group are part of the “agenda.”

BobObob, you’d probably have better results smashing your head against a wall than you will making the point you are trying to make. It simply doesn’t matter that nobody on the planet knows what in the world “SSA” is unless they frequent this board. It doesn’t matter that 99.999999 percent of chaste homosexual persons would describe their sexuality as “gay”. It doesn’t matter because anyone who utters the word “gay” must be a part of that big, bad, scary agenda.

Maybe we should start letting the young people, those who are coming to terms with being gay (even though they’re still in high-school and haven’t had sex with anyone) that they are part of an evil agenda. Let’s make them feel worse than they already do by making ridiculous assumptions. Besides, like Buffalo says, if they’re not having sex, there’s no need for them to tell anyone about their sexuality. I guess they should just keep their mouths shut and act like everyone else. Of course, if they do decide to be honest about their sexuality, they sure as heck better not say the word GAY, because we all know what that means.

There is so much wrong with this post I don’t know where to start.

OK - I decided. - The hormonal years of teenagers there is many times some sexual confusion. In most cases it clears by late teen. Therapists have been wrongly encouraging these teens to “come out” and declare their homosexuality, join diversity clubs etc…

Building walls - the truth will set you free…

We must not be afraid to tell the truth to these kids and counsel them as mature adults without any politically correct ****. There is so much misinformation in the youth and the schools.

Ask yourself who is the main promoter?

No agenda? see here

 

[Booklover]

There is so much wrong with this post I don’t know where to start.

OK - I decided. - The hormonal years of teenagers there is many times some sexual confusion. In most cases it clears by late teen. Therapists have been wrongly encouraging these teens to “come out” and declare their homosexuality, join diversity clubs etc…

Building walls - the truth will set you free…

We must not be afraid to tell the truth to these kids and counsel them as mature adults without any politically correct ****. There is so much misinformation in the youth and the schools.

Ask yourself who is the main promoter?

No agenda? see here

Great post and link, Buffalo! For the first time in history we’re experiencing a revolution of avowed homosexuals, who not only boast of their habits but unite in an attempt to impose their ideology on society. As homosexual activist Paul Varnell once stated in the Chicago Free Press:

“So the gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people’s view of homosexuality”.

For those who want to learn more “why we must resist same-sex marriage and the homosexual movement”, I suggest reading this book, Defending a Higher Law, which can be downloaded online here. It’s a great read! It exposes the myths and tactics and debunks the arguments pushed by the homosexual agenda.

Vickie

 

[Kolbe300]

OK - I decided. - The hormonal years of teenagers there is many times some sexual confusion. In most cases it clears by late teen.

True. And in many cases, the confusion turns to a clear realization of a homosexual orientation. What then?

Therapists have been wrongly encouraging these teens to “come out” and declare their homosexuality, join diversity clubs etc…

I’m sure that’s true, sometimes. You seem only able to view “coming out” as an act to further the agenda. You’ve said it many times, that one need not declare their homosexuality if they aren’t sexually active. It took me 28 years to “come out”. Was I trying to further the agenda? Should I have just kept my mouth shut about it? Can you not see that there are times when one needs to be honest about such a thing?

We must not be afraid to tell the truth to these kids and counsel them as mature adults without any politically correct ****.

True. But it’s hard to counsel someone who isn’t allowed to “come out” in the first place.

No agenda? see here

I never said there wasn’t an agenda. My point is that many self identified gay and lesbian folks have no agenda at all. As long as we assume everyone is a part of that agenda, we’ll get nowhere.

 

[djeter]

Found this on a homosexual website. How’s this for an agenda?
The Gay Manifesto embraces the following five proven scientific facts about Gay and Lesbian Americans:

Fact — Homosexuality is a normal, natural and unchangeable sexual orientation.

Fact — Homosexuality has always existed at a fixed percentage throughout human

evolution.

Fact — Homosexuality is present in all animal species including the human species.

Fact — Homosexuality is an immutable and infallible biological construct of nature.

Fact — Homosexuality is necessary for human existence and the perpetuation of the human species.

As such:
The Gay Manifesto demands full and unconditional equality in every area of life. Gay and Lesbian Americans will not be barred from fully realizing the freedoms constitutionally guaranteed to every citizen of this great country.
The Gay Manifesto demands the immediate end to political parties using Gay and Lesbian issues as a wedge for garnering votes and campaign contribution. The Democratic and Republican parties have made billions exploiting Gay and Lesbian Americans and have no interest in securing our equality. Gay and Lesbian Americans demand equality and will actively remove candidates incapable of delivering legislative results furthering that goal.
The Gay Manifesto demands that corporations provide equal access to Gay and Lesbian employees in securing employment protections and full benefits for their families. America is a grand capitalist society where Gay and Lesbian money will only support businesses valuing Gay and Lesbian rights and full equality for all Americans. Corporations with policies contrary to true American values will adapt or face product boycotts and civil actions.
The Gay Manifesto demands the forfeiture of public entitlements and special privileges for any religious institution condemning Gay and Lesbian Americans. These organizations promote a contrary opinion to proven scientific facts and the laws of nature, encourage ignorance within the public domain and are hostile towards the most fundamental of American values…freedom from oppression."

Proven facts???Talk about myths! How can homosexual unions be necessary for human existence and the perpetuation of the human species? IMHO, this is pure nonsense!

Vickie

Take any of those facts, look under the 10 myths of homosexuality, match the fact and the myth, highlight copy and paste the studies that the myths refer to. See if the site gives you any answers (in addition to calling you a homophobe…)

The 10 myths are on the web as a pdf but I sorted it all out in MS Word and have put that document on my site (easy to copy/paste) here:

payingattentiontothesky.com/causes-of-homosexuality-a-christian-appraisal-of-the-data/the-top-ten-myths-about-homosexuality-by-peter-sprigg/

best of luck

dj

 

[Booklover]

Take any of those facts, look under the 10 myths of homosexuality, match the fact and the myth, highlight copy and paste the studies that the myths refer to. See if the site gives you any answers (in addition to calling you a homophobe…)

The 10 myths are on the web as a pdf but I sorted it all out in MS Word and have put that document on my site (easy to copy/paste) here:

payingattentiontothesky.com/causes-of-homosexuality-a-christian-appraisal-of-the-data/the-top-ten-myths-about-homosexuality-by-peter-sprigg/

best of luck

dj

Thanks, dj! I’ll do that!

Vickie

 

[buffalo]

True. And in many cases, the confusion turns to a clear realization of a homosexual orientation. What then?

I never said there wasn’t an agenda. My point is that many self identified gay and lesbian folks have no agenda at all. As long as we assume everyone is a part of that agenda, we’ll get nowhere.

Chastity. or…
Myth No. 2:Sexual orientation can never change.
**Fact: **
Thousands of men and women have testified to experiencing a change in their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Research confirms that such change does occur — sometimes spontaneously, and sometimes as a result of therapeutic interventions.

Where are we trying to go?

 

[BobObob]

You say that we should oppose the gay agenda, yet the thing that usually gives militant gay groups firepower is things that Christians do.

“Beating” one politically at a debate isn’t going to win their souls. To really be effective, we must establish a rapport with them.

DO you really think you’re going to win any souls be winning a political debate with gay activist groups? If you think so, you should study psychology a little.

Chastity. or…
Myth No. 2:Sexual orientation can never change.
**Fact: **
Thousands of men and women have testified to experiencing a change in their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Research confirms that such change does occur — sometimes spontaneously, and sometimes as a result of therapeutic interventions.

Joseph Nicolosi, probably the best known psychologist who practices reparative therapy, estimated that one third of the clients experience significant reduction in SSA, a third experience a little reduction in SSA, and a third of the clients experience no reduction of SSA.

While some people have been able, to varying degrees, change their sexual orientation, it is no way guaranteed. Because of this, and the fact that this therapy can cost thousands of dollars, the one might have good reasons not to pursue it.

Also note that very few of these men, virtually 0%, report having absolutely no SSA.

We should promote chastity, but if we tell them that they much change their sexual orientation to be eligible for God’s love, then we have placed an unreasonable condition on them and they will be turned off by what we say.

Watch the following video:

youtube.com/watch?v=HFKWH4d4jsw&feature=PlayList&p=AE5EB49B3BADE049&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=58

 

[buffalo]

We should promote chastity, but if we tell them that they much change their sexual orientation to be eligible for God’s love, then we have placed an unreasonable condition on them and they will be turned off by what we say.

/quote]

Who ever said that?

The macro position is to fight the degradation of society by challenging our elected, voting against the agenda and acting against the agenda.

At the school level stop the PC homosexual agenda.

At the person level education is key. Love the sinner and hate the sin.

Truth with love

not love without truth
or
truth without love.

 

[BobObob]

BobObob;6755173:

We should promote chastity, but if we tell them that they much change their sexual orientation to be eligible for God’s love

, then we have placed an unreasonable condition on them and they will be turned off by what we say.

Who ever said that?

I don’t think you explicitly said they’re required to change. However, many times stating that people can change is implicitly sending the message that anyone with SSA can change if they choose to and that they must do so.

The macro position is to fight the degradation of society by challenging our elected, voting against the agenda and acting against the agenda.

There are definitely situations in which sinister agendas of gay activist groups must be opposed, but we shouldn’t squeeze everyone who uses the terms “gay” and “lesbian” into the same box.

We should also be very respectful towards those homosexual persons who do support gay activist groups. Many times their chief reasons for supporting those groups is because the other side turns a blind eye toward struggles that these people face. The existence of these militant organizations is made possible by the fact that they wouldn’t generally be well accepted elsewhere.

At the school level stop the PC homosexual agenda.

As Chad Thompson says, gay activist groups are effective in schools because they often deal with real issues that homosexual persons face, such as homophobia (I guess you’re going to jump on me for using this word), while these issue won’t be addressed elsewhere. In addition to these real issues, they’ll also tell them that same-sex sexual contact is OK.

If you want to be effective at the school level, you need to have Christians genuinely address issues that homosexual persons face rather than taking the “sit down and shut up” approach to homosexual persons. That’s how homosexual persons are generally treated in the Catholic Church and by many Christians.

At the person level education is key.

At the personal level, love is key. Education, or indoctrination, does no good unless they feel that you love them and have their best interest in mind.

Love the sinner and hate the sin.

This phrase is way too cliché. Everyone uses it, but hardly anyone really follows it.

Homosexual persons all know that the Catholic Church and most of Christianity opposes homosexuality, yet very few homosexual persons are shown Christlike love.

 

[buffalo]

I don’t think you explicitly said they’re required to change. However, many times stating that people can change is implicitly sending the message that anyone with SSA can change if they choose to and that they must do so.

There are definitely situations in which sinister agendas of gay activist groups must be opposed, but we shouldn’t squeeze everyone who uses the terms “gay” and “lesbian” into the same box.

We should also be very respectful towards those homosexual persons who do support gay activist groups. Many times their chief reasons for supporting those groups is because the other side turns a blind eye toward struggles that these people face. The existence of these militant organizations is made possible by the fact that they wouldn’t generally be well accepted elsewhere.

As Chad Thompson says, gay activist groups are effective in schools because they often deal with real issues that homosexual persons face, such as homophobia (I guess you’re going to jump on me for using this word), while these issue won’t be addressed elsewhere. In addition to these real issues, they’ll also tell them that same-sex sexual contact is OK.

If you want to be effective at the school level, you need to have Christians genuinely address issues that homosexual persons face rather than taking the “sit down and shut up” approach to homosexual persons. That’s how homosexual persons are generally treated in the Catholic Church and by many Christians.

At the personal level, love is key. Education, or indoctrination, does no good unless they feel that you love them and have their best interest in mind.

This phrase is way too cliché. Everyone uses it, but hardly anyone really follows it.

Homosexual persons all know that the Catholic Church and most of Christianity opposes homosexuality, yet very few homosexual persons are shown Christlike love.

I was trying to state that change is not a prerequisite for God’s love.

you - At the personal level, love is key. Education, or indoctrination, does no good unless they feel that you love them and have their best interest in mind.

No one will trust you if you will not be truthful with them. Being PC is not loving nor truthful. Not being truthful so they will listen to you seems like the ends justifies the means. The Catholic Church has their best interests in mind - eternity.

Love the sinner hate the sin - c’mon - that is Catholicism 101.

One has to be open to the truth. Because of the agenda being so successful, go ahead, just try and share the truth with one. Backlash big time.

 

[Kolbe300]

Thousands of men and women have testified to experiencing a change in their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Research confirms that such change does occur — sometimes spontaneously, and sometimes as a result of therapeutic interventions.

And I’d be willing to bet that far more men and women have testified to experiencing no change in their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Research also confirms that such change often times doesn’t occur, spontaneously or otherwise, as a result of therapeutic interventions. What does all this mean? It means that reparative therapy isn’t the “answer all” to the debate. It means we’ve got to dig a little deeper.

Where are we trying to go?

I’m not sure where you are trying to go. Where I’d love to see Christians go is to a place where gay and lesbian men and women are not automatically lumped in with radical, agenda-driven, pro-gay activists.

 

[BobObob]

you - At the personal level, love is key. Education, or indoctrination, does no good unless they feel that you love them and have their best interest in mind.

No one will trust you if you will not be truthful with them. Being PC is not loving nor truthful. Not being truthful so they will listen to you seems like the ends justifies the means. The Catholic Church has their best interests in mind - eternity.

Demonstrating God’s love to someone before discussing a serious issue with them is neither being politically correct nor being deceitful.

In the book God’s Grace and the Homosexual Next Door, Alan Chambers and the leadership team at Exodus International (a Christian organization that reaches out to homosexual persons to lead them out of a life of sin) offered a quick 20 question quiz to test one’s knowledge of homosexuality to see how prepared one is to interact with homosexual persons. One of the questions was:

“The ideal response to homosexuality is:

A. “love the sinner, but hate the sin”
B. always preach repentance
C. befriend them first, and allow God to bring up the matter of their homosexuality
D. ignore them. They’re too much in the news anyway.”

The answer, they said, was C. This was their explanation in the answer sheet:

“Many well meaning Christians assume that ‘loving the sinner but hating the sin’ is a reasonable response. But it’s not. To a homosexual, their attractions are so much a part of them that to tell them you hate their sin only is meaningless. The far better approach is to demonstrate your love by being their friend and allowing God to direct your interaction with them.”

Love the sinner hate the sin - c’mon - that is Catholicism 101.

It’s good to love sinners and hate sins, but when it comes to homosexuality, many people may say “hate the sin, but love the sinner” while hating both the sin and the “sinner” (merely experiencing SSA isn’t a sin). I’d say that about 100% of Catholics hate the sin of homosexuality, but less than about 10% of Catholics would actually demonstrate love to homosexual persons and treat them as well as they would treat anyone else.

Also, we shouldn’t always take an in-your-face approach to reaching out to others. St. Paul adjusted his approach to preaching based off his audience. Rather than telling the Greeks that they were pagan idol-worshipers and sodomites who were all going to Hell if they don’t repent, he first tried to establish a rapport with them.

 

[buffalo]

Demonstrating God’s love to someone before discussing a serious issue with them is neither being politically correct nor being deceitful.

In the book God’s Grace and the Homosexual Next Door, Alan Chambers and the leadership team at Exodus International (a Christian organization that reaches out to homosexual persons to lead them out of a life of sin) offered a quick 20 question quiz to test one’s knowledge of homosexuality to see how prepared one is to interact with homosexual persons. One of the questions was:

“The ideal response to homosexuality is:

A. “love the sinner, but hate the sin”
B. always preach repentance
C. befriend them first, and allow God to bring up the matter of their homosexuality
D. ignore them. They’re too much in the news anyway.”

The answer, they said, was C. This was their explanation in the answer sheet:

“Many well meaning Christians assume that ‘loving the sinner but hating the sin’ is a reasonable response. But it’s not. To a homosexual, their attractions are so much a part of them that to tell them you hate their sin only is meaningless. The far better approach is to demonstrate your love by being their friend and allowing God to direct your interaction with them.”

It’s good to love sinners and hate sins, but when it comes to homosexuality, many people may say “hate the sin, but love the sinner” while hating both the sin and the “sinner” (merely experiencing SSA isn’t a sin). I’d say that about 100% of Catholics hate the sin of homosexuality, but less than about 10% of Catholics would actually demonstrate love to homosexual persons and treat them as well as they would treat anyone else.

Also, we shouldn’t always take an in-your-face approach to reaching out to others. St. Paul adjusted his approach to preaching based off his audience. Rather than telling the Greeks that they were pagan idol-worshipers and sodomites who were all going to Hell if they don’t repent, he first tried to establish a rapport with them.

Good post! I agree.

And yes I would agree that not every homosexual consciously advances the agenda. That is the success of it.

Just want to point out there is the public policy realm that has to deal with the issue differently - do you agree?

 

[Kolbe300]

And yes I would agree that not every homosexual consciously advances the agenda. That is the success of it.

Just want to point out there is the public policy realm that has to deal with the issue differently - do you agree?

I agree!!!

I know the question wasn’t aimed at me, but I simply had to respond because I just don’t get to do say “I agree” enough when it comes to discussions with you, my friend:

Although we may not always see eye to eye, I do enjoy discussions with you, Buffalo.

 

[BobObob]

Just want to point out there is the public policy realm that has to deal with the issue differently - do you agree?

I agree.

However, one must be careful with politics because it tends split people in opposition to each other. Not that there isn’t a time and place to be involved politically, because there is, but it tend to make us loose track of what’s important. We battle not against homosexual (not even those who are militant gay activists), but against principalities and powers.

As Chad Thompson mentions in his talk (youtube.com/watch?v=HFKWH4d4jsw&feature=PlayList&p=AE5EB49B3BADE049&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=58 ), many Christians will treat others who they disagree with politically with complete disrespect, and thus it takes only the most mature individuals to be involved politically and not push away those of the other party (or those that sympathies with the other party).

Regarding that talk that I keep referring to, it’s long, but I think that all those who are involve politically in this issue or knows anyone who is homosexual should watch it.

 

[buffalo]

Although we may not always see eye to eye, I do enjoy discussions with you, Buffalo.

I love stimulating discussion about important issues. Even though some of us do not see eye to eye we should have civil discussion and remain friends.

 

[polkadots]

I think I will follow the catechism and not discriminate.
There may be some legitimate moral reasons that have been mentioned here, but I think all too often people want to demonize others and avoid the sin that is present in their own lives. I will be praying for love to prevail in all of our hearts.

 

[Jermosh]

The actions are being judged. A chaste homosexual has no need to declare himself, if he does it is part of an agenda.

Why do they have no need to declare themselves? As again the organization has specifics for discrimination, if a person cannot uphold to those specifics, then they unjustly joined it.

 

[Jermosh]

I am talking of those who are flaunting their homosexuality and want to live the “gay” lifestyle.

I also suggest that homosexuals stop their campaign of hatred against those who oppose their agenda!

Vickie

Did you ever think of looking at it the otherway around? When was the last time you heard of people protesting at a funeral saying that God killed their son because the USA is tolorant of Catholics?

 

[buffalo]

Why do they have no need to declare themselves? As again the organization has specifics for discrimination, if a person cannot uphold to those specifics, then they unjustly joined it.

Ones proclivity for any specific behavior is not a discriminatory issue.