Sexual Oreintation Discrimination

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I guess I just don’t understand. When I go into a job interview, I don’t advertise my sex life on my sleeve, other than wearing my wedding band. I also don’t expect it to be relevant to the job to which I am applying. So my question is, why does the GLBT folks think that it is so all important to advertise who they are, knowing that not everybody is ok with it, or approves of it? My opinion is that they are looking for victimization validation and/or trolling for a lawsuit.

I know not all GLBT’s do this, but a substantial number of them do, or at the very least the more militant of that group.
 
I’m certainly not advocating the spread of “their” agenda. I’m advocating several things, including not putting all of “them” in a box. I’m also advocating extending Christlike love to “them”. Many times these political and radical gay activist groups gain power by being the only ones who address real issues that homosexual persons face, such as rejection

I do think that there is a time and place for to oppose the agendas of certain gay activists, but this should be play a secondary role to love and should be done by teaching morality and risks, not by attacking persons themselves or taking an “us vs “them” approach. The battle we should ultimately be fighting is against principalities and powers (Eph 6:12), not persons who may or may not honestly believe there is nothing wrong with their sexual behavior.

Remember, there are PERSONS involved in this. These persons face real issues. The more political it is, the more likely one is to loose track of that fact and fight the wrong battle against the wrong enemy.

“Discrimination” simply means to make a decision based on some factor. I may discriminate between what foods I want to eat for dinner based off of various factors (taste, nutrition, etc.). Recently, the word “discrimination” has come to strongly imply an unjust discrimination.

To oppose “same-sex marriage” or homosexual acts would be to discriminate against sexual ACTS, not sexual ORIENTATION. The laws may not recognize it that way, but those are often highly problematic and faulty laws.

Catholics should avoid discrimination based on sexual orientation. We should also not discriminate against persons who practice sexual sin, except in matters which not discriminating would be allowing the sexual sin to occur (such as letting your son share a room with his girlfriend in your house overnight).

Regarding the document from the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith that you liked to through EWTN, I’ve read it in its entirety in the past and did so again, and there’s nothing in there contrary to what I’ve said. It’s a non-magisterial letter that points out problems with certain legislation that could cause increasing acceptance of homosexual behavior. This document also says:

“7 It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.

12 Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity (cf. No. 10). Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc…”

It should also be noted that this document assumes that a person’s homosexual orientation won’t be known and thus won’t need anti-discrimination laws unless he/she has advertised his/her sexual orientation (see post 14). This, among with other things in this document, indicates that it is primarily concerned with how laws will affect how people view and treat homosexual behavior, not discrimination against homosexual persons.
It’s easy to keep bringing up the “discrimination card” every time someone disagrees with what homosexuals do, as you keep doing. Homosexuals seem to want acceptance, no matter what they do. So many seem to have an “in your face” attitude. Why make an issue of their sexual orientation? I was in Target recently and there was a heavy set girl there with a tank top that stated blatantly “Legally Gay”. What is the purpose of that, if not to make a statement?

Vickie
 
It’s easy to keep bringing up the “discrimination card” every time someone disagrees with what homosexuals do, as you keep doing.
Are you saying that I’ve been trying to get people to agree with what homosexual persons do?

When have I ever indicated that someone should accept homosexual behavior as moral? I didn’t. I strongly hold that same-sex sexual activity is sinful. I also hold that one shouldn’t mistreat or shun homosexual persons, which many people do. Please make sure that you actually understand what I’m saying and avoid strawmen.
Homosexuals seem to want acceptance, no matter what they do.
You should always accept persons, but not always their behavior.

Many times homosexual persons seek acceptance because they know that if others know about their homosexuality, they will be rejected. Many times they would rather feel rejected right away rather than be rejected by someone they were good friends with, which they often mortally fear.
Why make an issue of their sexual orientation?
There may be good reasons for homosexual persons to tell family members and close friends about their sexual orientation, but that’s a topic for another thread…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=457358&page=6
Homosexuals seem to want acceptance, no matter what they do. So many seem to have an “in your face” attitude. Why make an issue of their sexual orientation? I was in Target recently and there was a heavy set girl there with a tank top that stated blatantly “Legally Gay”. What is the purpose of that, if not to make a statement?
What’s the appropriate response to this?

Is the appropriate response to assume that all homosexual persons are like that and to fight them in a political battle? I think not.

Maybe the appropriate response to this is to not assume that all homosexual persons are like this and to treat all homosexual persons with respect that everyone deserves.
 
Are you saying that I’ve been trying to get people to agree with what homosexual persons do?

When have I ever indicated that someone should accept homosexual behavior as moral? I didn’t. I strongly hold that same-sex sexual activity is sinful. I also hold that one shouldn’t mistreat or shun homosexual persons, which many people do. Please make sure that you actually understand what I’m saying and avoid strawmen.
We don’t seem to understand each other at all. Sorry about that!
You should always accept persons, but not always their behavior.
Many times homosexual persons seek acceptance because they know that if others know about their homosexuality, they will be rejected. Many times they would rather feel rejected right away rather than be rejected by someone they were good friends with, which they often mortally fear.
There may be good reasons for homosexual persons to tell family members and close friends about their sexual orientation, but that’s a topic for another thread…
Well, we are at an impasse! Excuse me, but this sounds like you’re pulling the victimization card this time. Has it ever occurred to you that the behavior that so many homosexuals are flaunting so freely may have something to do with the rejection you mention? Do you think I’d get any sympathy from anyone, for instance, if I wore a tee shirt that stated “I like sex with little boys”? How do you think people would react to that? Should I be surprised if people shunned me or gave me dirty looks?
What’s the appropriate response to this?
Is the appropriate response to assume that all homosexual persons are like that and to fight them in a political battle? I think not.
Maybe the appropriate response to this is to not assume that all homosexual persons are like this and to treat all homosexual persons with respect that everyone deserves.
We’re going round in circles again. The agenda is there and it’s the LGBT lobby that is forcing it on us. We have a right to reject it. I know that not all homosexuals are like that but it’s the radicals pushing the agenda and those are the ones we have to oppose. You also seem to assume that not agreeing with the agenda means disrespect. I do not see it that way.

Vickie
 
Well, we are at an impasse! Excuse me, but this sounds like you’re pulling the victimization card this time. Has it ever occurred to you that the behavior that so many homosexuals are flaunting so freely may have something to do with the rejection you mention? Do you think I’d get any sympathy from anyone, for instance, if I wore a tee shirt that stated “I like sex with little boys”? How do you think people would react to that? Should I be surprised if people shunned me or gave me dirty looks?
I’m not talking just about individuals like the one you saw with a tank top that said “legally gay”. Yes, they exist, but for everyone like that there are more people out there who are not like that.

I’ve personally known homosexual persons who weren’t like that who have experienced great rejection from Catholics and other Christians. Many Catholics and other Christians who have a homosexual orientation can’t open up to anyone about their orientation simply because it often isn’t safe for them to do so because of how people will treat them. There’s evidence out there that indicates that homosexual persons, including those who aren’t in other people’s faces regarding their sexuality, are often mistreated by others who know about their sexual orientation.

What about a teenager who experiences same-sex attraction who hears gay jokes all the time and is shunned by any of his peers who suspects he’s “gay” as well as by any of his close friends or family members he wishes to tell?

Think about this other scenario. A guy who, as an adult, may or may not be sexually active, but who also hears gay jokes from time to time and is met with disgust whenever anyone finds out about his orientation. He tells people about his sexual orientation when needed because he doesn’t want to completely hide his orientation in part because people are going to wonder why he doesn’t date or doesn’t have a girlfriend.
We’re going round in circles again. The agenda is there and it’s the LGBT lobby that is forcing it on us. We have a right to reject it. I know that not all homosexuals are like that but it’s the radicals pushing the agenda and those are the ones we have to oppose.
For most the gay activists who are very radical, it’s unlikely that anything will change them. I have heard of a case in which a radical lesbian activist organizer was quited, not by shouting back at her, but by giving her a hug. The person who did this, Lenny Carluzzi, got a call from her the next day and entered into constructive dialogue with her, not a political match.

I’ve never seen politics change a persons heart or behavior, but I have seen love do this.

If politics isn’t going to change a person’s heart, especially a radical activist, what should be one’s goal in politics regarding homosexuality? One aught to aim to promote legislation that would be for the good of society, fight legislation that would do damage to society, and counter the education of activist groups with education that people need.
You also seem to assume that not agreeing with the agenda means disrespect. I do not see it that way.
I never indicated that. Many times I’ve said that I disagree with the agendas of GLBT groups of pushing for homosexuality to be viewed as morally permissible, yet also indicated that these individuals must be treated with respect.
 
BobObob;6801503:
yet also indicated that these individuals must be treated with respect.
Why? Their behavior doesn’t deserve respect.
I’m talking about the persons. People should always be treated with respect, even though they might sin.

The fact that other persons are doing something that is sinful does not give one license to disrespect them and treat them as less than human.

People should treat homosexual persons as equals, rather than subordinates.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
…SSA have to communicate the SSA status FIRST otherwise the landlord would not know.
“SSA” stands for “same-sex attraction”, or homosexual attraction. A homosexual person experiences SSA.

Some people ho experience SSA may have good reasons for telling some others about their SSA (see forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=457358&page=6 ).

Also, individuals can, and often do, discriminate against those who they think are homosexual, regardless of whether or not the person they think is homosexual has said so. I’m talking about not just things like renting, but rather referring more to “every-day” things.
Texas_Roofer said:
There has been no homosexual discrimination proven nor even shown in this thread
I’ll fix that:

For discrimination towards homosexual persons by average practicing Catholics, see post 35 and beyond in this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=457358&page=3

For discrimination from others in general:

uwlax.edu/faculty/giddings/ECO336/Week_6/Berg_Lien.pdf

“Homosexual men earn 16% to 28% less than non-homosexual men with similar demographic characteristics.”

ideas.repec.org/a/ilr/articl/v48y1995i4p726-739.html

“[T]he author finds that gay and bisexual male workers earned from 11% to 27% less than heterosexual male workers with the same experience, education, occupation, marital status, and region of residence…”

citeulike.org/user/tfuist/article/4004094

“[G]ay and lesbian communities have brought attention to the scope and consequences of anti-gay and lesbian violence in the United States, which ‘has taken its place among such societal concerns as violence against women, children and ethnic and racial groups’ (Comstock 1991:1)”

books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZWT4I2cTCFIC&oi=fnd&pg=PA19&dq=gays+violence&ots=GNPqYbL6Rm&sig=LswRIWRs5sJdUR0pGgL2Fqisdug#v=onepage&q=gays%20violence&f=false (page 19)

“Since the birth of the gay liberation movement in the 1960s, a large body of data on anti-gay violence and other victimization has developed. Thousands of episodes—including defimation, harassment, intimidation, assault, murder, vandalism, and othe abuse—have been reported to police departments and local and national organizations (Berrill, 1986; NGLTF, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990; NGLTF Policy Institute, 1991). Many thousands more incidents have gone unreported (see Chapter 18 of this volume by Berrill & Herek). Numerous empirical studies, many of them unpublished, also have shown the problem of anti-gay violence to be widespread.”

These are things that I found by simply doing a few minutes of online research. I’m sure I could find much more if I wanted to…
 
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