sexuality

[WenckebachCath]

The reason I have compassion for homosexuals it because the sexual drive is such an inate part of human nature. It’s very difficult to deny it. I’ll freely admit here that I was not a virgin when I married because I found myself in situations where I went too far with my boyfriend and went “all the way”. I also seriously doubt that the majority of people, even now devout people, have always lived the ideal chaste lives. They’ve either mastubated, fornicated, or otherwise given in to their carnal desires that seem to be genetically programed into us.

Sex is a great joy in life, and the drive to be sexually intimate is a very powerful one. Therefore, it’s a tall order to ask your average person to deny it. Many of us somehow are able to eventually set things right by marrying. But, pity the poor homosexual! Marriage is not an option for them within our church! They are faced with a lifetime deniel of sexual intimacy. They aren’t allowed any release through masturbation if they want to live up to the letter of the law.

I totally understand their frustration and plight. Look at that Evangelical pastor. I have no doubt that he was sincere in his attempt to live as a heteorsexual married man. Perhaps his urges just started to drive him wild. I sympathize with that. Sex is a powerful urge that is a part of our primal nature, and it can be utterly overwhelming. Think about it.

 

[Karin]

The reason I have compassion for homosexuals it because the sexual drive is such an inate part of human nature. It’s very difficult to deny it. I’ll freely admit here that I was not a virgin when I married because I found myself in situations where I went too far with my boyfriend and went “all the way”. I also seriously doubt that the majority of people, even now devout people, have always lived the ideal chaste lives. They’ve either mastubated, fornicated, or otherwise given in to their carnal desires that seem to be genetically programed into us.

Sex is a great joy in life, and the drive to be sexually intimate is a very powerful one. Therefore, it’s a tall order to ask your average person to deny it. Many of us somehow are able to eventually be able to set things right by marrying. But, pity the poor homosexual! Marriage is not an option for them within our church! They are faced with a lifetime deniel of sexual intimacy. They aren’t allowed any release through masturbation if they want to live up to the letter of the law.

I totally understand their frustration and plight. Look at that Evangelical pastor. I have no doubt that he was sincere in his attempt to live as a heteorsexual married man. Perhaps his urges just started to drive him wild. I sympathize with that. Sex is a powerful urge that is a part of our primal nature, and it can be utterly overwhelming. Think about it.

yes but we are NOT ANIMALS…we can control our urges!

 

[Island_Oak]

…It saddens me severely that Catholics have such a bad image of gays-in fact Catholics sadden me as much as it saddens me that I am technically one too…

Simply wondering if you could describe the response you expect from the world/Catholics, etc.? How does the response you are actually getting differ from your expectations? How do you present yourself? Something to consider: it can raise the defenses and even prejudices of traditionally religious people, to introduce yourself as homosexual and have your entire identity and focus revolve around your sexuality.

After 6 months recovering from a mental breakdown, caused by trying to stay “in grace”, I find nothing but anger in my heart at the “laws” that this church forces its members to abide by to attain the possibility of eventually possibly getting to Heaven…

Is the Church the cause of your breakdown-or-is there a conflict between the way you are conducting your life and the values you hold.

 

[rayne89]

well-fornication-not applicable for unmarried gays.
adulterers-(see above)
sodomites…so according to church law gay is ok if we leave out the bottom sex thing.
LOL-this is an argument without end, but just to emphasise-Im arguing the fact that church law/scriptue/catecism can do a lot of mental harm to people-believe or be damned etc etc-leave it out guys!

Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion [m-w.com/images/audio.gif](javascriptopWin(’/cgi-bin/audio.pl?fornic03.wav=fornication’))
Pronunciation: "for-n&-'kA-sh&n
Function: noun
: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

Uh…yeah it would apply to unmarried gays since they would be two persons not married to each other.

 

[hasikelee]

To-whom it may concern. Ive just finished reading thru posts and find most of what I see unbelievable at least. It saddens me severely that Catholics have such a bad image of gays-in fact Catholics sadden me as much as it saddens me that I am technically one too. After 6 months recovering from a mental breakdown, caused by trying to stay “in grace”, I find nothing but anger in my heart at the “laws” that this church forces its members to abide by to attain the possibility of eventually possibly getting to Heaven. Where is the love? why are we here if not to live-why do Catholics want everyone to be miserable in life on the assumption that they will find happiness afterwards? Where does the bible specify homosexuality is wrong-natural law? a law laid down by the majority of hetrosexual control freaks. Is not Catholicism all about control-it always makes me laugh that whatever, Catholics are always right, always have THE answer. I realise im pissing in the wind here, but, for any gays who are unsure as to Catholicism-just be yourself, abide by the laws of your nation-spread love-be happy-ok

Pish posh. The teachings of the church are that every person is to remain chaste according to their state in life.

I reached sexual maturity almost a decade ago and I haven’t had sex or done any sexual actions other than a bit of kissing.

Are you feeling weak? Unable to choose what’s healthiest? Sure, if you believe in spiritual law, than enjoying sexual things outside of marriage is a sin.

But have you honestly convinced yourself that natural law doesn’t exist? Have you persuaded yourself to believe that enjoying sexual actions with whomever or whatever is really going to make you happy? Veneral disease means nothing? Emotional actualization, nada? Psychological health, just a piss in the wind desire?

I mean, honestly. Some people steam me up. Are we just helpless animals that must hump everything that walks by? Do we stand around eating without any control? Do we walk up and smack a person when we’re angry? And obviously, if the big bad church says it’s wrong to live as a slave to our impulses, obviously all the catholics are unloving.

“Jeez, mommy, you just don’t understand! All my other friends are _____!”

If I can do it, you can do it. Science and research shows it’s healthiest for you.

 

[hasikelee]

Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion m-w.com/images/audio.gif
Pronunciation: "for-n&-'kA-sh&n
Function: noun
: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

Uh…yeah it would apply to unmarried gays since they would be two persons not married to each other.

How can that apply? Or does sexual intercourse also include anal penetration?

 

[hasikelee]

The reason I have compassion for homosexuals it because the sexual drive is such an inate part of human nature. It’s very difficult to deny it. I’ll freely admit here that I was not a virgin when I married because I found myself in situations where I went too far with my boyfriend and went “all the way”. I also seriously doubt that the majority of people, even now devout people, have always lived the ideal chaste lives. They’ve either mastubated, fornicated, or otherwise given in to their carnal desires that seem to be genetically programed into us.

Sex is a great joy in life, and the drive to be sexually intimate is a very powerful one. Therefore, it’s a tall order to ask your average person to deny it. Many of us somehow are able to eventually set things right by marrying. But, pity the poor homosexual! Marriage is not an option for them within our church! They are faced with a lifetime deniel of sexual intimacy. They aren’t allowed any release through masturbation if they want to live up to the letter of the law.

I totally understand their frustration and plight. Look at that Evangelical pastor. I have no doubt that he was sincere in his attempt to live as a heteorsexual married man. Perhaps his urges just started to drive him wild. I sympathize with that. Sex is a powerful urge that is a part of our primal nature, and it can be utterly overwhelming. Think about it.

So is eating and anger. Yet we do not fail to put a murderer behind bars because he just couldn’t help it.

Everyone in the world has to control their bodily functions. Do you walk into work and fart next to your boss? I mean, everyone in the whole world has to fart. If you can control it and I can control it, why does another person get to justify it?

If someone has a personal problem with a certain subject then they need empathy and guidance. Ignoring, placating or condoning the problem only harms the person more. What would we all be saying if this person confessed to alcoholism?

Everyone is tempted! I get tempted a lot, too! But I don’t go around moaning about it and blaming God and churches for my problems.

 

[rayne89]

1. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
2. nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
   NKJ 1 Cor 6:9-10
3. We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
4. with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
5. the unchaste, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching
   NAB 1 Tim 1:8-10

Main Entry: sod·om·ite [m-w.com/images/audio.gif](javascriptopWin(’/cgi-bin/audio.pl?sodomi02.wav=sodomite’))
Pronunciation: -"mIt
Function: noun
: one who practices sodomy

1. Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire.
   KJV Jude 1:7

 

[LilyM]

How can that apply? Or does sexual intercourse also include anal penetration?

:bigyikes: it most certainly does, as well as a lot of other practices that you may or may not be familiar with (oral sex, masturbation of one party by another etc)

 

[batteddy]

After 6 months recovering from a mental breakdown, caused by trying to stay “in grace”,

I’m sorry that happened…but doesn’t that say something to you? That your emotions were so strong that attempting to resist them caused a breakdown? No feeling should have that much control, that much importance. No desire should be that necessary to fulfill.

We ask just as much of unmarried heterosexuals, and they don’t all have breakdowns. And yet homosexuals often come to these boards and tell us that chastity is an impossible and cruel demand. Sounds more like a powerful addiction than simply an alternate sexuality.

why do Catholics want everyone to be miserable in life on the assumption that they will find happiness afterwards?

Because people are going to be miserable anyways! We might as well reassure them of something better to come…

You can deny it all you want, but life on earth is a bad night in a bad inn. A vale of tears. Nothing but vanity and dust and death.

We might as well tell them how they can escape that. People are going to suffer anyways and always. But we have been given by God the means of turning suffering and struggle into eternal bliss. We have a duty to spread that.

Is not Catholicism all about control-

In a way, I suppose. But there is nothing wrong with control, least of all Self-Control.

it always makes me laugh that whatever, Catholics are always right, always have THE answer.

Well, if God revealed himself…you didn’t expect him to lie or give us half-truths did you?

If God came to give us answers, of course he was going to give us all the answers!

 

[WenckebachCath]

As far as the comparision to other natural urges, such as eating, I think it’s evident that many people have a problem controlling their desires for rich food in quantities above and beyond what they need for good health. That was a very good comparison actually, since gluttony is a much more common problem than acting on homosexual urges.

I don’t agree that we aren’t animals. We have a strong part of our nature that comes from the animal kingdom. Yes, we also have our humanity, but we live in a fallen world, and we are often held hostage by our lower natures.

I read a very good Eastern Orthodox author once, I wish I still had that book but it was a loan from an acquaintance. It discussed the fall of mankind from grace as sybolized by the story in the Garden of Eden, and how it introduced the animal nature into our beings, which causes us to struggle with our carnal desires. It really resonated with me.

In short, I have a great deal of compassion for the struggle of homosexuals, especially in the world we find ourselves in today. In the past I think it was much easier for them to maintain chastity, when the world was not constantly tempting them and trying to justify and validate the gay lifestyle as good.

 

[benjie]

WOW!-thanks guys and gals for your replies! varying from blatant “burn in hell” to mildly sympathetic (theres some hope!)
Was thinking whilst making tea-lets get down to basics. Why are homosexuals not acceptable to a vast majority, religous, or secular (tho mainly religous).
The purpose of any speces is to reproduce-every speces on earth is primarily geared to doing this-or the result is extinction of the said speces. We, as humans are no different, and are able to perform the reproductive cycle far better than any other speces due to our elivated intelligence, even going as far as to control unwanted reproduction.
The “norm” is for a man and woman to have intercourse and produce children-everyone happy. Any deviation on that causes a disturbance in human nature-now some may feign religous reasons, others moral ones, others that it just “feels wrong” but it is the basic instinct of the speces that drives us to dislike anything not geared to reproduction and reproduction is the ultimate aim of ours and any speces-it has to be.
Right-so as thousands of years of learning have found out-a child is best bought up in a stable relationship between a man and a woman ( 2 men and 2 women are fine but thats a modern difference thats debated elsewhere) so “marrage” was developed, and adopted by the church as the right thing to do.
This is all fine-but-as always, the minority that dont fit the bill suffer. We are geared to finding the best mate to make the best babies-dominance and submissivness still has a major part in society-the process of “love” uniting 2 people to produce babies and hopefully stay together long enough to raise the child to maturity is the strongest emotion.
So what of those that dont fit the bill? all sections of society and acts in society that dont pertain to that one primairy requisite for humanity are reviled-its nature folks! Be it abortion, sex out of marrage, contraception, and homosexuality-all detracts from the primary requisite. So, say all you will about scripture not allowing it-temptation leading us to it, lack of self control etc etc etc. Gay men are atracted to men instead of women (and women to women-lets not forget the ladies!)-this is inheritantly unfruitfull-because it points to sex as being purely for pleasure (Catholic “gratification”)-now I get more pleasure from sex than from eating, drinking, or smoking-yet the latter 3 are nothing in comparison-why-ask yourselves-detract from religous dogma and think"why does gay sex seem wrong"-and when you realise that its just because it doesnt agree with your urge to carry on the speces-chill-protest abortion, encourage adoption, theres enough babies-were doing ok-leave the gays alone. Try to see a bigger picture-stop delving into sordid sexual situations you believe gays to indulge in that straits stay away from for fear of staining their whiter than white smocks. Love happens everywhere-wether it produces babies or not-so, love thy fellow man (as someone once said) thankyou.

 

[Karin]

Benjie-most of us do love the “sinner” but by no means do we have to love the “sin” (homosexual sex acts)…

 

[benjie]

Simply wondering if you could describe the response you expect from the world/Catholics, etc.? How does the response you are actually getting differ from your expectations? How do you present yourself? Something to consider: it can raise the defenses and even prejudices of traditionally religious people, to introduce yourself as homosexual and have your entire identity and focus revolve around your sexuality.

Is the Church the cause of your breakdown-or-is there a conflict between the way you are conducting your life and the values you hold.

Breakdown was caused by being forced to believe these things:
my children would be dead in 2 years (due to Gods chastisment)
as will all my family and freinds.
my gay freinds will all burn in hell.
my Mother will burn in hell for not being a Catholic
I will burn in hell within 2 years if i dont adopt every part of the catholic catechism, not only understand it, remember it, but believe it to the word.
recordings of the screams of hell were played to me.
crosses were put up at every window to detract demons.
every impure thought, unreligous thought, want, happiness was from the devil.
i would recieve “graces” to help combat this fight with Satan (none ever came)
god would come to wreak rewenge (nordic variant) on the world was last october but has now been constantly deferred, is apparently next july 2007, (warning and miracle dependent of course).
if i prayed hard enough, an angel would some how save my kids.
everyone will die-darkness will cover the land-holy candles will save the few remaining.
the pope is the antichrist

now this, and much more that was indoctrinated into my head over a few months eventually cause a total meltdown, causing many months of drugs, treatment and pills-BIG love yeah!

 

[Karin]

what lovely church was this that spewed this garabge out…it sure was not the Catholic Church!

Breakdown was caused by being forced to believe these things:
my children would be dead in 2 years (due to Gods chastisment)
as will all my family and freinds.
my gay freinds will all burn in hell.
my Mother will burn in hell for not being a Catholic
I will burn in hell within 2 years if i dont adopt every part of the catholic catechism, not only understand it, remember it, but believe it to the word.
recordings of the screams of hell were played to me.
crosses were put up at every window to detract demons.
every impure thought, unreligous thought, want, happiness was from the devil.
i would recieve “graces” to help combat this fight with Satan (none ever came)
god would come to wreak rewenge (nordic variant) on the world was last october but has now been constantly deferred, is apparently next july 2007, (warning and miracle dependent of course).
if i prayed hard enough, an angel would some how save my kids.
everyone will die-darkness will cover the land-holy candles will save the few remaining.
the pope is the antichrist

now this, and much more that was indoctrinated into my head over a few months eventually cause a total meltdown, causing many months of drugs, treatment and pills-BIG love yeah!

 

[batteddy]

Yes. Reproducing the species is very important. But why do you think that disproves religious motives?

God gave us sexuality for a very important and highly symbolic purpose. It teaches about a love that does not seek itself, but seeks the Other. Which does not end in itself, but is fruitful. Literally.

Now, obviously we don’t believe you have to reproduce (we extol celibacy). But IF you are going to use the gift, you must use it properly. Obviously, using it for the exact OPPOSITE of the reason it was made for, cannot be supported.

Niether can eating to the point of sickness. The whole point of food is health, eating to the point of unhealth is thus against its nature.

The whole point of sex is fruitful selfless giving. Using it for self-pleasure, or even fruitless giving, is entirely an abuse of the Gift, and a smack in the face to the Giver.

Your desires don’t change that. People whom do not feel called to marriage, can be celibate. There is no option for sex outside of marriage even if that is what one desires.

There is a reason, in this case, why the majority is the majority…because they were made to be. The minority may feel pulled towards another action, but even they, if judging using reason and not emotions, can clearly see that the reproductive organs are for reproductions.

Many people throughout history have had arranged marriages and not been particularly attracted to their spouse. They still reproduced. Or people were celibate.

Acting rightly isnt always going to be emotionally satisfying. Nor should it be. We are asking you do abstain from something that you want. People do it everyday. To these “minorities” it is “opression” but most recognize that their abberant desires make no sense and have no right to be acted on.

 

[benjie]

LOL-Karen, it most certainly was, the fundamentalist Marionist traditionalist Catholic church!-saints in every room and Rosaries to spare!

 

[Karin]

LOL-Karen, it most certainly was, the fundamentalist Marionist traditionalist Catholic church!-saints in every room and Rosaries to spare!

oh my i guess they do things “differently” where you are…I have never heard a Catholic Priest, Bishop or Pope state the things you have said…also the Pope is not the anti-christ

 

[hasikelee]

LOL-Karen, it most certainly was, the fundamentalist Marionist traditionalist Catholic church!-saints in every room and Rosaries to spare!

I’ve never heard of that one! But if you read right from the horse’s mouth so to speak, you will see that nothing you were told is what Catholicism teaches. Someone was giving you false teachings.

 

[FillTheVoid]

I’m not homosexual but if I were I would be feeling the exact same things you are feeling. In fact I feel the same frustration deep inside when I think that seemingly good people are going to a place no human could ever conceive of.

You obviously want to have faith or you wouldn’t be at this forum, that’s good. I really don’t have the answers but I don’t think they’re out to make you feel miserable or to torment you with their standards.

You should seek council and pray pray pray pray pray pray pray.

Best of luck to you, I’m really sorry you have to deal with such a horrible perdicament.