sexuality

[Tietjen]

Dont shoot the messinger! i dont believe a word of it

Ahh, but you do… They told you that they were Catholic and you still believe them. Therein lies the problem. You took away something that they told you and you DO believe them (if not completely certainly on this point). It’s truly sad that if you can reject the other stuff they said that you are choosing to believe this.

PS-please dont do anything in my name-it would be very rude thanks.

Kind of like what you’re doing with the REAL Catholic Church isn’t it?

 

[nydas]

I’m no catholic (atheist-former catholic), but what you described was not the catholic church. At least not the mainstream version. Your experience was more cultish then anything.

However i will say that I’m in the same boat as you. My time was religion was not the happiest time in my life. I have been much happier since i left the church and religion. But i had no reasons for leaving like you did. The church i went to was great. My minister was awsome. The LifeTeen program was awsome. I loved that church. But i couldn’t keep going because i didn’t belive it anymore. What reason should i have to belive a book? Why should i dedicate what little time i have on this earth to an unknown being? Our universe is to large to even comprehend. (Hubble estimates there are 125 billion galaxies
Our galaxy contains 200 to 600 billion stars.
Assuming other galaxies have 200 to 600 billion stars, there is an estimated (125 billion * 200 billion) to (125 billion * 600 billion) solar systems out there. Or 25,000 billion solar systems (25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems) to 75,000 billion solar systems (75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems)

We are a tiny little planet in this tiny little solar system in our tiny little galaxy floating around in who knows what. Why would god care about us? Heck, if god is real, why would he even create so many other planets? If we are his sole creation, why bother with other planets, other solar systems, other galaxies?

And then, if i do decide to believe in God, theres thousands of gods for me to pick. All of them just as likely. All of them were said to be true. Why should i choose your god over Zeus?

To me, religion is like Santa clause. Its my opinion that it is simply used as a form of control.

And why is it that when literal interpretations of sctipture get proven false, the Scripture automatically becomes open for interpretation. It used to be FACT that the earth was created in 7 days and the universe is only a few thousand years old. Now that it is proven to be billions of years old, the story changes to “A day to god could be billions of years to man!”

EDIT: woo… Didnt really mean to stray off-topic like that. Feel free to not respond to this post so as to not get off the original topic.

 

[CRW]

call me stupid-but where in this does it say-“thou shalt not be gay?”

Main Entry: sod·omy
Pronunciation: 'sä-d&-mE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French sodomie, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom; from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Genesis 19:1-11
: anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex; also : copulation with an animal

• sod·om·it·ic /"sä-d&-'mi-tik/ or sod·om·it·i·cal /-ti-k&l/ adjective

Gn 1:27, Gn 2:21-24, Gn 19, Lv 18-22, Lv 20-13, Rom 1:27, 1 Cor 6:9-11, and 1 Tim 1:9-10

Example: 1 Cor 6: 9-11: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Tietjen]

However i will say that I’m in the same boat as you. My time was religion was not the happiest time in my life. I have been much happier since i left the church and religion. But i had no reasons for leaving like you did. The church i went to was great. My minister was awsome. The LifeTeen program was awsome. I loved that church. But i couldn’t keep going because i didn’t belive it anymore. What reason should i have to belive a book? Why should i dedicate what little time i have on this earth to an unknown being? Our universe is to large to even comprehend. (Hubble estimates there are 125 billion galaxies. Our galaxy contains 200 to 600 billion stars.
Assuming other galaxies have 200 to 600 billion stars, there is an estimated (125 billion * 200 billion) to (125 billion * 600 billion) solar systems out there. Or 25,000 billion solar systems (25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems) to 75,000 billion solar systems (75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems)

First, thank you for serving. I have a great respect for our men and women in uniform especially in such a trying time.

Second, it sounds as though you experienced a happy and beneficial relationship with the Church. I’m sorry that something changed in your view of it. You say that you stopped believing in it and that you couldn’t see the point in believing in “a book” (I assume that you are referring to the Bible). This “book” was written almost 2,000 years ago by reliable nonfiction writers. It’s a history book if you will. Since you know so much about science and galaxies, I assume that you find other “books” to be worth believing in; what caused you to turn your back on the Bible? When you cite the amount of galaxies and solar systems that are out there it does appear to be overwhelming. Moreover, if God were a mere man, it would be; however, since God is everywhere at once (including time) it’s not overwhelming for Him. He can manage these systems and still care about us on our little speck of dust.

We are a tiny little planet in this tiny little solar system in our tiny little galaxy floating around in who knows what. Why would god care about us? Heck, if god is real, why would he even create so many other planets? If we are his sole creation, why bother with other planets, other solar systems, other galaxies?

Why would He create such a vast expanse? Why not? Why would God care about us? Well, because we are His creations. If He didn’t care about us, the question would be why He would create us in the first place. Since we do exists, He must care; and if the history book (the Bible) is correct, then He cares so much that His Son became a man and endured horrible persecution and an agonizing death for our sakes. Do you have children? If so, do you love them? Why?

And then, if i do decide to believe in God, theres thousands of gods for me to pick. All of them just as likely. All of them were said to be true. Why should i choose your god over Zeus?

Well, I suppose that you need to weigh the evidence. Besides Judaism (which worships the same God), what other religion has survived 2000 years? False religions have a way of falling apart rather quickly in the face of time.

To me, religion is like Santa clause. Its my opinion that it is simply used as a form of control.

As a military member, I’d think that you would support the concept of “control.” Control, as you put it suppresses anarchy. The military uses control methods, governments use control methods, parents use control methods, etc. Rules and laws are a good thing. Yes, the Church has laws, doctrines, rules, (whatever term you wish to use) to inform it’s members of what is right and wrong. What would happen if the Church didn’t have these rules set in place? What happens to the children of parents who have no rules?

And why is it that when literal interpretations of sctipture get proven false, the Scripture automatically becomes open for interpretation. It used to be FACT that the earth was created in 7 days and the universe is only a few thousand years old. Now that it is proven to be billions of years old, the story changes to “A day to god could be billions of years to man!”

Human beings aren’t all knowing. As time passes, our understanding grows. Is it so hard to understand that our understanding of God is also better understood? In the example you gave, you used the “a day to God could be billions of years to man.” Here’s a thought… the Church (Catholic) says God is outside of time. So how does that play into your example? Maybe, God revealed to us the creation story in a way in which we could understand, since if He explained it exactly how it took place we wouldn’t be able to understand it. Can you imagine Moses sitting down and contemplating the specifics of how the universe was created?

 

[Eschato]

But, pity the poor homosexual! Marriage is not an option for them within our church! They are faced with a lifetime deniel of sexual intimacy. They aren’t allowed any release through masturbation if they want to live up to the letter of the law.

I’m a 23 year old heterosexual male, and you could say that I get the same treatment. I don’t get to go fornicate, or take sexual pleasure to myself either. You know what, I might never have a sexual climax again. That is a fact that I have to deal with. GOD MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT PURPOSE FOR ME.

I have had a few breakdowns too, chronic anxiety, surounded by death and turmoil, I wallowed through a valley of hell that I don’t think that many have experienced. At one point, I dont think that I slept for two weeks. Not for long at least. I was absolutely tormented. I would close my eyes and hear yelling, doors opening, laughing, or strange things whispering. A dark presence was always around me. for months I “lived” like this.

One day, I couldn’t take it anymore. I closed my eyes and I prayed. I don’t know why, I just did. The nightmare didn’t just leave me altogether. I have walked out of it in the two years since. Because I walked into a Catholic Church one Sunday, I was was at the lowest I have ever been. The man on the cross said (not audibly, I understand that some of you may think that I am crazy now) that in a sense, my sin was destroying me. Indeed, God created me for good, and that is what I shall do. But at the time, I was tormenting my own soul with drugs, sex, et cetera. The noise just becomes unbearable.

I feel great sympathy towards the heavy burdened. I was once one of them. But you must realize that part of your salvation is picking up your own cross and dying to yourself, over and over again. The yoke of the Lord Jesus is easy, and his burden is light.

It is the bad that you do that torments you. Not the bad that you deny yourself, or the good that you deny yourself for that matter. When you deny yourself something, you thereby accept the gift of the peace of Christ.

 

[Eschato]

Can you imagine Moses sitting down and contemplating the specifics of how the universe was created?

I forget where, but I remember reading scripture where David essentially describes the water cycle, the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and other “recent” scientific discoveries. I could find them if you want. But all the answers are there. Today’s answers are there today. Tomorrow’s will be there tomorrow. It’s all in God.

 

[Riley259]

I’m happily Catholic and have SSA. I wouldn’t defend homosexuality in any way, except that we exist and we choose either sin or not and can’t force Church teaching on them, only let them know.

Great post and an inspiration to those who struggle with same-sex attractions and want to be faithful members of the Catholic church. We aren’t defined exclusively by our sexuality - humans are much more than that and at the core are sons and daughters of God.

 

[goofyjim]

Actually, the way I understand it is, homosexuality was only forbidden because the Israelites wanted to increase in population to defeat their enemies. Seeing that this is not necessary, or should not be necessary today, why continue to forbid it?

 

[corvidae]

Actually, the way I understand it is, homosexuality was only forbidden because the Israelites wanted to increase in population to defeat their enemies. Seeing that this is not necessary, or should not be necessary today, why continue to forbid it?

I would be interested in seeing why you think that is why it was forbidden. I mean, if that were the case, why would the command not be have as many children as possible. It seems that this as ridiculous as saying that Catholics forbid contraception because they are trying to breed an army.

It is also forbidden in the New testament, and it chould be noticed that Paul says that homosexuality is an effect of a sinful environment, rather than a cause of it. If it were simply to increase the number of the Israelites, why would the New Testament condemn it as well.

A lone Raven

 

[Riley259]

Actually, the way I understand it is, homosexuality was only forbidden because the Israelites wanted to increase in population to defeat their enemies. Seeing that this is not necessary, or should not be necessary today, why continue to forbid it?

Boy that’s a new wrinkle for rationalization of something sinful - that’s right up there with the hospitality argument that some gay activists use for what happened at Sodom.

 

[goofyjim]

I just make the point that it is not the number one evil in the world that everyone here makes it out to be. If heterosexual marriages can’t stay together now, how will it get any worse be allowing homosexual unions? Think about it.

 

[estesbob]

I just make the point that it is not the number one evil in the world that everyone here makes it out to be. If heterosexual marriages can’t stay together now, how will it get any worse be allowing homosexual unions? Think about it.

No one said that homosexuality was most evil thing in the world However it is a grievous sin that can land one in hell regardless of whether it is most evil thing in the world or not.

Okay per your request I thought about your comment about heterosexual marriages.And the the point is?

 

[benjie]

Main Entry: sod·omy
Pronunciation: 'sä-d&-mE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French sodomie, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom; from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Genesis 19:1-11
: anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex; also : copulation with an animal

• sod·om·it·ic /"sä-d&-'mi-tik/ or sod·om·it·i·cal /-ti-k&l/ adjective

Gn 1:27, Gn 2:21-24, Gn 19, Lv 18-22, Lv 20-13, Rom 1:27, 1 Cor 6:9-11, and 1 Tim 1:9-10

Example: 1 Cor 6: 9-11: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

now do we take “abusers of themselves with “mankind”” as men?
I’ve seen "mankind used many times in the bible-how does that suddenly for this context mean just men?

and sodomy-was used extensively (and still is) to prevent pregnancy in a religion that denounces contraception-now, which one would that be?

 

[CRW]

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

now do we take “abusers of themselves with “mankind”” as men?
I’ve seen "mankind used many times in the bible-how does that suddenly for this context mean just men?

and sodomy-was used extensively (and still is) to prevent pregnancy in a religion that denounces contraception-now, which one would that be?

If I read your post correctly, are you asking if Oral Sex is considered a sin if used to avoid conception? If that is the question then yes.

Posted on EWTN Question/Answer: To make it absolutely clear: a couple can never have oral sex as a replacement for normal sex. Oral sex is only allowed as a prelude to normal sex. I suggest you get Christopher West’s book, “Good News About Sex and Marriage.” It’s available through shopcatholicl.com. It would be good for both of you to read it.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P

Do you not agree with 1 Cor 6: 9-11?

 

[Polaris]

I think this thread is prime example of miscommunication and lack of respect which turn many “away” from God even more like Benjie. I personally know three Monogamous Gay couples two of which are very close friends and one of which have been together for over 40 years, and another that waited for two years before they “committed” themselves to eachother. All of them contain partners who love each other very much and its a great injustice to say that it is a selfish love and they are only using there partners for sex. They would gladly die for their partner and to say that they do not truly love or are incapable of love is inncorrect. Also comparing all modern day Homosexuals to sodomites is grevously wrong they are not trying to rape anyone and are having not having sex with everyone in a city. There is a big difference in Rape and rampant sexual encounters and two people who soley and freely give themselves to one other partner. Also stop comparing overeating, drinking and a temper, to homosexuality its a lot more complex then that Two of them is the abuse of an object and the other hatred towards another human the other involves love for another which may or may not be misplaced. (im personally not sure but I try to bend my will).

 

[valient_Lucy]

How can that apply? Or does sexual intercourse also include anal penetration?

Sexual activity includes all genital contact.

 

[mercygate]

LIke im bothered to fool anyone? this is what was taught to me ok. there are certain sections of the Catholic church that believe that the latest pope was not elected by god, but by politics. That JPII was the last true pope The same pope that allegedly tried to cover up the third secret of Fatima, was the master behind JPII, and seeks the demise of Catholicism from within to make masonic world domination prevail. This is not my belief, it is what I was taught in the name of Catholicism, and one of the many reasons i am no longer a believer. When I first became increasingly mentally ill-i was forced to endure “excorcism prayers” whilst holding a cross to my forehead with incense burning 24/7-all I needed was psychiatric care but, no-i was possesed. If this sounds like another world to you readers-it isnt-its reality in YOUR church-look to within-Im just letting you know the score!

This is NOT the Catholic Church. These are schismatics with catholic trappings. Get out of there fast!

Finde a real Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church will not tell you that homosexual acts are fine. It will not tell you that life will not mean suffering. But it will give you grace and support in living out the way of the Cross to which you are called – as we all are in one way or another.

 

[Dorothy]

Father John Harvey is a priest who has reached out in ministry to the homosexual community who desires to remain chaste. The name of this is called “Courage”. Here is the website:

couragerc.net/

All of us, whether homosexual or heterosexual have trials and tribulations in our lives in order to be sanctified. With God all things are possible.

 

[CRW]

I think this thread is prime example of miscommunication and lack of respect which turn many “away” from God even more like Benjie. I personally know three Monogamous Gay couples two of which are very close friends and one of which have been together for over 40 years, and another that waited for two years before they “committed” themselves to eachother. All of them contain partners who love each other very much and its a great injustice to say that it is a selfish love and they are only using there partners for sex. They would gladly die for their partner and to say that they do not truly love or are incapable of love is inncorrect. Also comparing all modern day Homosexuals to sodomites is grevously wrong they are not trying to rape anyone and are having not having sex with everyone in a city. There is a big difference in Rape and rampant sexual encounters and two people who soley and freely give themselves to one other partner. Also stop comparing overeating, drinking and a temper, to homosexuality its a lot more complex then that Two of them is the abuse of an object and the other hatred towards another human the other involves love for another which may or may not be misplaced. (im personally not sure but I try to bend my will).

Who accused all modern day Homosexuals to sodomites or that sodomy refers to one that rapes? By definition, Homosexual and Heterosexual activity both can be equally disorder activities of sodomy by Merrian-Webster Dictionary: anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex; also : copulation with an animal.

The argument of Church teachings are that they are disorder and go against the will of God natural law that sexual activity was created for marriage between the opposite sex and procreation; otherwise the sexual activity is disordered. One could created an equal discussion that a man and woman could sufficiently love each other, commit their love for a 40 year period, have children without the Blessings of Marriage. However, the Church teachings are that all fornication is disordered and is morally sinful. Equally so, a person engaged in an violent marriage, seeking true love outside of their marriage, may dispute that the teachings of the Church concerning adultery is invalid because they are seeking true love; a love that is not shared in their current marriage and truly our God wants us to be loved. They also would die for their partner and see, in their rationalization, their relationship as equal to the married state.

The Catholic Church teachings are not hatred towards any of the above. The teachings are doctrine derived from God’s Word and strive to bring all too eternal, everlasting life with Christ. Although there all those that bare hatred towards all of the above, the Church teaches love, dignity, and reconciliation. It is the individual denial of the Church teachings that creates the negative or individual rebuttal that the Church teachings are not God’s intentions. Acceptance for disobedience of Church doctrine by Homosexual and Heterosexual disorder sexual activity, is contributing to an act that our Church clearly teaches as morally disordered and sinful.

 

[benjie]

Well-thankyou mr. Polaris!-at least someone has managed to reach past the stonewall of scripture to see love-it so sad that whilst saying repeatedly “god is love”“love thy neighbour” etc etc etc-so much of catholic, well religous teaching in general pushes mankind away from finding love for each other. It doesnt take religion to realise that killing, raping, child molesting, and so many other crimes are wrong-why, because we have evolved a distain for what goes against our race. maternal/paternal instincts, love of others, status (guards against theft)-sigh-why does this all seem so pointless? Catholics, as i initially said are ALWAYS right!