She said "men don't have any right to talk about abortion!"

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JamesG

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Yes, I’m sure many of you have heard this one before.

I think it is a very sexist comment against men. To suggest that because a woman goes through the pain giving birth that her point of view is the only one that is relevant is just evil.

It troubles me, because as a man I have the capacity to love and I also have the capacity to reason.

When a woman says such a thing she is actually trying to end rational debate about the issue of abortion.

Does anyone have a good way of rebuking such a comment?

Which ones have worked well for you?
 
I have yet to meet a man who was never born. Since men were given the gift of life we have every right to speak up.
 
As a woman, I have to say that it takes two to make a baby and that the man has no less of a right to the child then the woman does. This is my firm opinion. I do believe that in this age, men are discriminated against. With the courts, I see it more and more.

I like a comment I read once, “would you hold up your infant to stop a bullet from hitting you?” I do not remember where I heard it, but there you go. If it is immoral to sacrifice your baby to save your own life, why is it moral to sacrifice your baby so that you may live as you wish?

Men are the head of the houshold. Our spiritual director, in a way. You have to speak out against all evil. Look at my signature.

Thank you
 
well, it seems to me if men cant have a say or be involved in abortion, we should limit it to female doctors and allow only female victims. fair is fair.
i am being facetious, I AM NOT SEROUS!
 
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JamesG:
Re: she said “men don’t have any right to talk about abortion!”
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So, I guess, Christians have no right to talk about the holocaust against the Jews. Or, as a white guy, I can’t talk about black-on-black crime (a real problem in the US). Same logic, right?

Anyone may (and should) speak out against injustice against innocents. And there is no greater injustice than killing, and there are none more innocent than infants.
 
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JamesG:
I think it is a very sexist comment against men. To suggest that because a woman goes through the pain giving birth that her point of view is the only one that is relevant is just evil.
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Quite right.

That point of view would only be valid if what was in the womb of a woman was not a baby, a new life, but rather just a thing.

If the unborn child was just a “thing” then the point of view might have merit.

But since we don’t believe that, and see the unborn child as an unborn child, the view has no merit, since the abortion argument for us isn’t normally about a woman’s body, a woman’s pain, but about a child’s right to life.
 
I think women say that because they feel like men aren’t sympathetic to their plight, when they get pregnant. But then again, a lot of women are pressured into abortion by men, so it goes both ways. I think it’s a purely emotional argument, not a logical one.

A lot of men don’t realize how difficult it is to carry a baby. It’s really exhausting, you feel very vulnerable, and sometimes men can be insensitive. That’s probably what evokes comments like this, especially when women get pregnant with a guy who is being irresponsible, and only thinking of himself. So then women feel like they at least should have a right to abort the baby and that men shouldn’t have a say about that.

That’s my theory, at least.
 
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spiritblows:
I think women say that because they feel like men aren’t sympathetic to their plight, when they get pregnant. But then again, a lot of women are pressured into abortion by men, so it goes both ways. I think it’s a purely emotional argument, not a logical one.

A lot of men don’t realize how difficult it is to carry a baby. It’s really exhausting, you feel very vulnerable, and sometimes men can be insensitive. That’s probably what evokes comments like this, especially when women get pregnant with a guy who is being irresponsible, and only thinking of himself. So then women feel like they at least should have a right to abort the baby and that men shouldn’t have a say about that.

That’s my theory, at least.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but is a woman not irresponsible when she gets pregnant with a guy who is being irresponsible - outside of marriage?

It is the radical feminists who promote the idea that men are not sympathetic to their plight. I find this to be disturbing. Please don’t do that on this forum. As men it is actually part of who we are to be sympathetic and protective of our women. That is how we honestly feel inside. I wish more women would encourage men to be true to their nature.

Many people often wonder why God would make women go through so much pain to have a child. I think it is because we need to be reminded about how important the gift of life is. God made women to be nurturers of life and with that comes a great responsibility - it is the responsibility of a woman to show true love toward the child that she nurtures to life. The pain of child birth is the only thing in this world that we have to remind women who don’t follow the path of Christ. It is also a reminder to men that we must show compassion and strive to protect women as they carry Gods children.

God basically says to women. I’ve given you the gift of life and made you responsibile. If you want to have a child in this world you must show true love. But, don’t worry to be fair I will die for you and your childern and I will give up my body as well. God bless the women who have died for their childern and God bless the men who have died to protect them.

Don’t forget, Jesus said, “This is my body, I give it up for you” and he was a man. This truly speaks to the need for God bless us with his only son. It helps women realize that men are just as capable of dying for those that they love. That is after all what true love is about.

It is the counter truth of Satan to say, “this is my body let me do what I want with even if others must die”
 
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JamesG:
Does anyone have a good way of rebuking such a comment?

Which ones have worked well for you?
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By that logic men should not be gynocologists and obstetritians because who would take advice on child birth from a man???

Of course this is silly since many men are OB/GYNs and they give advice on female problems and on prengancy and childbirth every day.

By the same logic I should have no opinion on abortion since I’ve never had one even though I’m a woman.

A person need not have actual experience with something in order to give advice or have an opinion on it.

Her comment defies logic and those types of comments are made when a person has no logical reasons.
 
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1ke:
By that logic men should not be gynocologists and obstetritians because who would take advice on child birth from a man???

Of course this is silly since many men are OB/GYNs and they give advice on female problems and on prengancy and childbirth every day.

By the same logic I should have no opinion on abortion since I’ve never had one even though I’m a woman.

A person need not have actual experience with something in order to give advice or have an opinion on it.

Her comment defies logic and those types of comments are made when a person has no logical reasons.
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You won’t belive how popular this comment is. It always comes up when you talk to people about your views on abortion. You can bet that when you start to win your argument that comment will come forth.
 
This line of reasoning…woman’s body, woman’s choice,men have no (name removed by moderator)ut…suddenly seems to dissolve when the woman chooses to HAVE the baby and then expects the man to pay child support.

Suddenly the man, who perhaps was not interested in becoming a father is expected to take responsibility and is not granted the “courtesy” of a “choice” about it.

The first thing I taught my kids about sex was that it makes babies. That is it’s primary function.

I am against abortion, and against having sex without an openess to children and a willingness to give any children that result 110% effort toward being the best parent you can be.

If a person really wants the sex with no possibility of children. then they have the choice of sterilization, their free choice for which no child will ever have to suffer or die.

As far as I am concerned, choice comes into play only when deciding whether or not to have sex, after that…the choice has already been made.

cheddar
 
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JamesG:
Correct me if I’m wrong but is a woman not irresponsible when she gets pregnant with a guy who is being irresponsible - outside of marriage?
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You do realize that married women get abortions every day don’t you?
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JamesG:
It is the radical feminists who promote the idea that men are not sympathetic to their plight. I find this to be disturbing. Please don’t do that on this forum.
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That is not what she said.

She said that sometimes men can be insensitive because they don’t understand what a woman may be experiencing as her body changes in pregnancy. That goes for husbands who want their baby as well as men who do not care about their child. And, it’s not feminist rhetoric. She didn’t say all men are insensitive or that men are purposely insensitive. She merely pointed out that sometimes men can make comments that do make them seem insensitive or at least make it plain they don’t really understand what’s going on at that point in her pregnancy.

Please don’t read more into her comment than was there.
 
to the Men:

It will take a man to overthrow ROE V. WADE.

One day…when the right Supreme Justices are on the high court (soon)…some man somewhere, will have to Sue the selfish woman who deprived him of his Fatherhood.

A women sued for the right to abort…a man will have to sue for the right to life!
 
What a foolish comment. In that case, mothers would have no right to try and raise their sons, since they don’t know what it’s like to be a boy. And women would have no right to try and influence their husbands, because they don’t know what it’s like to be a man.

Are there separate laws against the murder of women, and the murder of men? According to her theory there should be. There should be separate laws for every single crime, depending on whether it’s against a woman or against a man.
 
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1ke:
You do realize that married women get abortions every day don’t you?

That is not what she said.

She said that sometimes men can be insensitive because they don’t understand what a woman may be experiencing as her body changes in pregnancy. That goes for husbands who want their baby as well as men who do not care about their child. And, it’s not feminist rhetoric. She didn’t say all men are insensitive or that men are purposely insensitive. She merely pointed out that sometimes men can make comments that do make them seem insensitive or at least make it plain they don’t really understand what’s going on at that point in her pregnancy.

Please don’t read more into her comment than was there.
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Could you provide me with a comment that men sometimes say that is insensitive toward women who are pregnant? If it is such a problem then it shouldn’t be hard for you to list a few of them.

I think this is a perception that is proliferated by radical feminists. They want women to think that men won’t help them. They want women to feel like victims during their pregnancy.

I think it would be more construtive to highlight the good that men do in terms of “action” for their women while they are pregnant.

That is all I’m saying. I am not trying to read into her comments.

And yes I do realize that married women get abortions. don’t read into my comments ok 🙂
 
“If you give me the right to kill my children, I’ll give you the right to kill yours.”

“If your kids want to kill you, the law will stop you. Why should you have greater rights than your kids?”

There are so many equally flip answers that I could try to write if I had the time. But the issue deserves more than a one-liner.

Abortion is a symptom of hardness of heart. If one were to approach the issue with a charitable heart filled, who could reach a decision to snuff out a life rather than endure manageable discomfort (in 99% of the cases) for less than 9 months.

This being said, it is easy for us to see the big picture. A woman or girl confronted with the issue is facing immediate issues that appear to be overwhelming. This is a common human frailty. We all do it. For example, we neglect our kids or spouse because of our work pressures.

For those of us who see the big picture, we need to reach out such that we change peoples hearts. To do this, we need to understand where they are coming from and address the issue from their perspective.

If they are a single mother who doesn’t want to raise the child (for whatever reason), we need to show to them that there are realistic adoption alternatives.

If the issue is financial, we need to be ready to show them that there are resources that will help them afford to carry the baby to term. This might include income support.

If the issue is reputational, we need to show them love and respect at a level they have never rec’d before.

Keep in mind that the percentage of people who actually ever receive an abortion is quite small (certainly too small to ever control the political environment. The political support for abortion comes not only from the women who fear the consequences of an unwanted abortion but is primarily the following:
  1. Women beyond child-bearing age who see abortion rights as a proxy or symbol of women’s place in the world.
  2. Men who want to avoid the consequences of an unwanted baby (mostly financial in nature ala child support).
  3. Men who want to demonstrate how “enlightened” they are regarding women’s rights.
  4. Men and women who sympathize with women or girls faced with the issues related with not wanting to raise an unwanted child, financial burdens associated with a pregnancy, or reputational issues (this is mostly parents who don’t want their children to grow up and face consequences of actions).
The above people are the ones where the political battle really needs to be fought. Assuming that we have programs/charities that are dealing with the issues detailed in #4 above, we need to focus on #1 and #3 (Men described in #2 are one’s who I don’t ever see us convincing) in a charititable way such that they see that no consideration is given to the unborn child in the equation. But to do so, we must penetrate a hard heart and this my friends is something that we might be able to impact slightly but the real work will be done by the Holy Spirit.

In short, I just think that we need to pray, pray and pray. Just as God listened to the appeal of Abraham on behalf of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, He will respond to the concerted prayers of His people. It is in this collective cry for His intervention that this issue will finally be resolved.
 
I find that type of comment insulting to women as well. It implies that all, or even most, of us are in favor of abortion on demand; which simply isn’t true. In fact, more men are in favor of it than women are. (Perhaps this has something to do with abortion being cheaper than child support? :mad: )
Anyway, an easy enough argument to beat: just give a few examples of pro-life women and say “if youi won’t listen to me, just listen to what this woman has to say!” 😃
 
If men have no right to talk about abortion, than why would we have any duties whatsoever towards the child or any child once he/she is born"?

we are either implicated from conception (actually, we HAVE to be implicated at conception), or we are not implicated at all.

Fair is fair.
 
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1ke:
You do realize that married women get abortions every day don’t you?

That is not what she said.

She said that sometimes men can be insensitive because they don’t understand what a woman may be experiencing as her body changes in pregnancy. That goes for husbands who want their baby as well as men who do not care about their child. And, it’s not feminist rhetoric. She didn’t say all men are insensitive or that men are purposely insensitive. She merely pointed out that sometimes men can make comments that do make them seem insensitive or at least make it plain they don’t really understand what’s going on at that point in her pregnancy.

Please don’t read more into her comment than was there.
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Why thank you. I was merely trying to give a reasonable answer to the question of the OP. I think this is what some women feel, that they are the ones to carry the enormous burden of physically carrying a child, and then doing alot of the childcare, without much sympathy from the menfolk. Also, there are alot of emotional ups and downs in pregnancy that some men don’t deal well with. Alot of women feel extremely insecure if they don’t get the emotional support they need.

Unfortunately, the sexual revolution has really burned a lot of women with the promise of free sex. Many women have been through a number of sexual relationships with men, been used, their emotions put through the wringer, then unceremoniously dumped, leaving them with bitter feelings towards men. So, then they bristle with rightous indignation when a man tries to tell them what to do with ‘their body’.

Does it make logical sense? No. But that is some of the reasoning these women use, I believe.
 
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