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TheTrueCentrist
Guest
If you notice I said “Even Krugman” implying that if anyone would be blaming this shooting on conservatives, it would be him. I didn’t and haven’t called for civility. For example:
TheTrueCentrist said:
Sheriff Dupnik's criticism of political 'vitriol' resonates with public
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TheTrueCentrist
Guest
No, he is saying that this is the logic that he disagrees with.
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havana1
Guest
Yes, I’m serious. I really don’t know how or why ‘rock music’ (whether it’s punk or metal or whatever) is getting blamed - again - for a shooting, but the facts really don’t support WND’s contentions, and there’s not really any evidence to suggest Anti-Flag inspired the gunman. Nor, for that matter, is there any mention of the Drowning Pool (the “Let The Bodies Hit The Floor” band), who have played U.S.O. tours for our troops overseas - as documented by numerous sources including the Guitar WorldMay 17, 2007. Will WND and FoxNews be investigating the Drowning Pool, too, since they’re featured quite prominently in Jared’s videos?
As for Anti-Flag, look at their Twitter feeds and Myspace page from 2010 and 2009 - from BEFORE the shooting - and show me where they’re advocating killing anyone:
Their Twitter feed: No calls for killing anyone.
Their Myspace page: No calls for killing anyone.
As for the “review” cited by WND, this is what that “review” states, in the sixth paragraph:
“Despite all the fist-in-the-air anger, this is Anti-Flag’s most focused, cohesive and dedicated effort. “On Independence Day” and “The Old Guard” crush the record out of the yard for a truly organic, emotionally-tense, introspective album that asks you to pick a side, gives you all you need to know and stands its ground.” (linked to by WND story)
There’s nothing in that AP (Absolute Punk, not the AP newswire) review about “violence.” That’s Jerome Corsi’s spin on it. Neither, for that matter, do any of the comments call for violence. How can an “introspective” album be violent? That makes no sense. Does anyone at WND proof-read any of their the material before posting it online?
Four pages of AP review comments, most recent dated 04/14/10 - and none of the comments mention anything about violence or killing people. It doesn’t look like any “revision” was necessary, since no more comments were added.
I’m not saying Anti-Flag are Amy Grant and they’re a good Christian, uplifting band. They’re not. But to even imply they had anything to do with the shooting is ludicrous and contradictory to the facts at hand. That WND “article” is, to put it politely, a stretch - and again, where’s their investigation of the Drowning Pool?
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
Funny…I see anti-establishment or anarchist in those things…note the whole book list and you’ll see a lot of controversial books. I wonder how many of the he’s actually read for himself. Call me a cynic, but I think he put those things up initially to get a rise out of people.
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pismopal
Guest
Thanks for the invitation but the scales fell from my eyes decades ago when I found out that my best friends were Jesus…my family and myself…the government was just along for the ride
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
The question is who is “them?” The context of fighting wars seems to imply “they” are whoever the government says “they” are and “they” are to be killed because “they” are not following in “our” (the government) footsteps.
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TheTrueCentrist
Guest
Pretty much:
And this line of reasoning is unacceptable to the song’s author.
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Tigg
Guest
Classic ploy for advocating censorship if you don’t agree with ***MY ***politics. If someone is irrational, there is no manner of knowing what will set them off.
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ManOnFire
Guest
Here are the first few sentences of his article:
"Climate of Hate
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: January 9, 2011
When you heard the terrible news from Arizona, were you completely surprised? Or were you, at some level, expecting something like this atrocity to happen? Put me in the latter category. I’ve had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach ever since the final stages of the 2008 campaign. I remembered the upsurge in political hatred after Bill Clinton’s election in 1992 — an upsurge that culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing. And you could see, just by watching the crowds at McCain-Palin rallies, that it was ready to happen again."
You read this as he “stops short of claiming that the shooter was politically motivated?” Seriously?
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ManOnFire
Guest
Havana, I think you are seriously delusional. You say they aren’t a punk band, but there’s a punk review of their music here: Reviewers typically describe Anti-Flag as violent punk rock anti-government political music that derives its rhetoric from the radical left.Yes, I’m serious. I really don’t know how or why ‘rock music’ (whether it’s punk or metal or whatever) is getting blamed - again - for a shooting, but the facts really don’t support WND’s contentions, and there’s not really any evidence to suggest Anti-Flag inspired the gunman. Nor, for that matter, is there any mention of the Drowning Pool (the “Let The Bodies Hit The Floor” band), who have played U.S.O. tours for our troops overseas - as documented by numerous sources including the May 17, 2007 Guitar World. Will WND and FoxNews be investigating the Drowning Pool, too, since they’re featured quite prominently in Jared’s videos?
As for Anti-Flag, look at their Twitter feeds and Myspace page from 2010 and 2009 - from BEFORE the shooting - and show me where they’re advocating killing anyone:
Their Twitter feed: No calls for killing anyone.
Their Myspace page: No calls for killing anyone.
As for the “review” cited by WND, this is what that “review” states, in the sixth paragraph:
“Despite all the fist-in-the-air anger, this is Anti-Flag’s most focused, cohesive and dedicated effort. “On Independence Day” and “The Old Guard” crush the record out of the yard for a truly organic, emotionally-tense, introspective album that asks you to pick a side, gives you all you need to know and stands its ground.” (linked to by WND story)
There’s nothing in that AP (Absolute Punk, not the AP newswire) review about “violence.” That’s Jerome Corsi’s spin on it. Neither, for that matter, do any of the comments call for violence. How can an “introspective” album be violent? That makes no sense. Does anyone at WND proof-read any of their the material before posting it online?
Four pages of AP review comments, most recent dated 04/14/10 - and none of the comments mention anything about violence or killing people. It doesn’t look like any “revision” was necessary, since no more comments were added.
I’m not saying Anti-Flag are Amy Grant and they’re a good Christian, uplifting band. They’re not. But to even imply they had anything to do with the shooting is ludicrous and contradictory to the facts at hand. That WND “article” is, to put it politely, a stretch - and again, where’s their investigation of the Drowning Pool?
In an interview with Punxrukus.blogspot.com,
absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=1046482
Read more: Radical leftist punk band inspired accused gunman wnd.com/?pageId=249741#ixzz1B7Sj5Glq
How about this title?: “Your Daddy Was A Rich Man, Your Daddy’s F***ing Dead”
It sounds like the lack of education of history and how economics liberated people is the real culprit here. We would never would have had these freedoms in the first place without our system of govt.
How in the world can you claim that any bend whose lyrics contain the words “Kill them” does not promote violence? Their website actually says “Our message is and always has been very clear, violence in any form is unacceptable.” Yet it’s in their lyrics. :nope::nope::nope:
Jerome Corsi is a writer with a Harvard PhD.
It’s time to stop denying the Truth. Denying the Truth is only going to make things worse.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Barack Obama is an American president with a Harvard JD.
Elitist credentials for both men. Should that matter?
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havana1
Guest
It sounds to me like the real culprit is the lack of fact-checking. Your comments seem to be derived entirely from that error-riddled WND piece. Why didn’t WND investigate The Drowning Pool, whose lyrics clearly state “LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR”?
**
Fact: The Drowning Pool is a pro-military heavy metal band who has played U.S.O. shows for the troops.
Fact: Jared tried to enlist in the military.
Question: Why isn’t WND “investigating” The Drowning Pool?**
As another posted on this thread pointed out, it doesn’t make much sense that he’d be trying to join the army if he was so enamored with an anti-military punk band.
Why didn’t WND (the basis for your comments) go directly to the source - to Jared’s Myspace page? Why the inexplicable leapfrogging over Jared’s Myspace page and over to some second-hand source for his taste in music? **That’s rumor-mongering and hearsay, not responsible reporting. ** Here is what the gunman wrote, in his own words:
"Jared Loughner: Hey T-zueen. Do you remember - Fear Before the Marh of Flames concernt with D-Rock, Ben Jizzet and J-Rad? I bet you *** do. Oh! That pole was physical… you know? Remember the cd cover? Ouch! Well I had to say it because it haunted me to this moment - peace hombre. *** Pigs."
Source: cited by New Times
As the New Times pointed out,“Fear Before, formerly known as Fear Before The March of Flames. They’re from Aurora, Colorado, in suburban Denver, just a short drive from Columbine High School.” Again, there’s no mention of this in the WND piece.
N.B.: This is message #519 in case you’ll want to refer to the primary sources cited by a more credible news outlet.
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ManOnFire
Guest
It matters for Havana’s ridiculous claim in his/her words "There’s nothing in that AP (Absolute Punk, not the AP newswire) review about “violence.” That’s Jerome Corsi’s spin on it. Neither, for that matter, do any of the comments call for violence. How can an “introspective” album be violent? That makes no sense. Does anyone at WND proof-read any of their the material before posting it online? "
Apparently either Havana can’t read or is color blind. Those are the only forseeable conclusions to draw when he/she claims that Corsi is “spinning” the words into violence, after I specifically quoted their lyrics “Kill them” in post #500. Then he/she has the nerve to ask if “they” proof read their material. The blind bigotry is scary.
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ManOnFire
Guest
So if Jared listed Mother Teresa as one of his favorite acts, WND should investigate her too??? You can’t seriously quote one or two non-violent performers as a defense for someone who unloaded 30 rounds into a crowd, was tackled while attempting to reload, where he was rejected from the military for drug use, where the politician he shot was against the legalization of pot. You’d have to be a bigot to rationalize this. Bigotry and ignorance goes all ways, not just in the direction that the liberal media annoints it.
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havana1
Guest
Another “foreseeable conclusion” is that it’s foolhardy to equate SONG LYRICS with PERSONAL OPINION. When the Dead Kennedy’s were singing “Let’s Lynch The Landlord,” were they actually encouraging it? I don’t think so. Jello Biafra (born Eric Boucher) from the DK’s actually ran for mayor of SF in 1979.
You would think a Ph.D. could differentiate between song lyrics and personal opinion.
You’d also think a Ph.D. would recognize the President of The United State was born in the United States (which Corsi denies), but that may violate CAF message board rules to point it out.
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havana1
Guest
Yes. If he’s facing federal charges, then the FBI should investigate what he wrote. You don’t investigate hearsay and gossip from some girl who knew him in a poetry class and thinks he might have liked The Doors (one of Mike Huckabee’s favorite bands, since he recently pardoned Jim Morrison’s obscenity charges.) You go directly to the source. Why is that so problematic? Investigating second-hand and third-hand sources is now the norm for responsible journalism? You’ve got to be kidding.
I ask again: Why isn’t WND/Fox News investigating the Jared video-featured Drowning Pool (lyrics: LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR), who have played U.S.O. shows for the troops, when the facts show that Jared tried to enlist? It makes no sense that he’d like an anti-military punk band, then turn around and try to enlist. Where’s the Drowning Pool investigation?
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estesbob
Guest
WOW ! I am fascinated about a heated discussion about bands I’ve never heard of! And my dad thought Grand Funk Railroad was bad
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havana1
Guest
No heat here. In accordance with CAF message board guidelines, I’m just calmly and rationally debunking a riddled-filled, error-filled WND piece. Not very difficult to do.
I really don’t care what music the gunman liked. And I really don’t understand the fixation with having to prove the infallibility of a WND article.
Continuing to pray for the families affected by the shootings last week.
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estesbob
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TheTrueCentrist
Guest
Yes. He is saying that the first assumption he (along with many people from all over the political spectrum) made was that this shooting was political, not that the shooting actually was. He later admits that the the shooter is mentally unstable by saying:
“It’s true that the shooter in Arizona appears to have been mentally troubled. But that doesn’t mean that his act can or should be treated as an isolated event, having nothing to do with the national climate.”
which is the closest he comes to explicitly implicating Republicans for this particular event.
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