Shootings demonstrate need for gun control, USCCB says

[Ender]

“USCCB has suggested policies for better background checks, limitations to high-powered weapons, more laws criminalizing gun traffic, improved access to mental health care, and increased safety measures on guns.”

You guys oppose this??

Yes, pretty much. As for the background check suggestion, while I am not familiar with the specific policies the USCCB has proposed, I might support enhancing the categories of people who should be barred from owning a gun. I don’t, however, necessarily trust the political proposals emanating from the USCCB.

I have no idea what is meant by “limitations to high-powered weapons”. A hunting rifle is a high-powered weapon. Are they talking about controlling magazine size? Folding stocks? I seriously doubt that restrictions on the physical structure of a gun would have any affect whatever on the kinds of shootings we have so recently experienced.

As for more laws criminalizing gun traffic, we should look at how well that’s working in Chicago. I wonder that people still believe that laws will control the lawless.

Increased safety measures on guns? Really? How would that have played out in Texas? The killer had all the time in the world to bypass the “safety measures” on his gun. It was only the good samaritan whose response would have been delayed, depending on the measures that are being considered.

Interestingly, the suggestion about access to mental health care touches (if only incidentally) on a real problem: access to guns by the mentally unstable. It may not be as politically appealing to suggest linking mental health data bases with background checks, but that’s an area that might actually show promise.

On the whole, I’m with those who look at another political pamphlet from the USCCB and say: who cares?

 

[Maximilian75]

And that’s what I meant… If my made up word confused anyone as point, I am sorry haha

 

[pnewton]

How so? What are they missing?

Lobbyist, for one.

The better question is what they have, at least for Catholics. That would be teaching authority.

 

[pnewton]

I have not noticed the link to the actual statement yet, so here it is:

Domestic Justice Chairman Urges True Debate On Gun Violence

This is not a new position. From the statement:

he USCCB continues to urge a total ban on assault weapons, which we supported when the ban passed in 1994 and when Congress failed to renew it in 2004.

In addition, the bishops have supported:

Measures that control the sale and use of firearms, such as universal background checks for all gun purchases;

Limitations on civilian access to high-capacity weapons and ammunition magazines;

A federal law to criminalize gun trafficking;

Improved access to mental health care for those who may be prone to violence;

Regulations and limitations on the purchasing of handguns; and

Measures that make guns safer, such as locks that prevent children and anyone other than the owner from using the gun without permission and supervision.

 

[XndrK]

Why does the USCCB think it’s a good idea to do this? It’s making positions that are not clearly decided Catholic doctrine and pushing a view of the state that not everyone in full communion with the Church aligns with (myself, for instance).

I think we need to have this debate and I don’t mind the USCCB encouraging the debate in question, but I think the USCCB should have just said “this is the debate we need to have, these are the priorities we need to set, that is all.”

Instead it’s shooting itself in the foot repeatedly with the AR-15s it’s trying to ban.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

On the whole, I’m with those who look at another political pamphlet from the USCCB and say: who cares?

Is this the same Ender that is quick to rely on the authority of a single bishop to support the claim that a Catholic may never vote for a pro-abortion candidate? And you are now saying that the combined will of all the bishops in the US can be easily met with “who cares?”

 

[pnewton]

Ender:

On the whole, I’m with those who look at another political pamphlet from the USCCB and say: who cares?

Is this the same Ender that is quick to rely on the authority of a single bishop to support the claim that a Catholic may never vote for a pro-abortion candidate? And you are now saying that the combined will of all the bishops in the US can be easily met with “who cares?”

Yes, it is.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Yesterday, someone posted on Facebook, a close-up photograph of a fully automatic MACHINE GUN … that was not only HOME MADE, but also fired 12 gauge shotgun shells.

It was tiny … the size of a pistol.

So unless you ban all machine tools, files, screw drivers, small pieces of metal, there is no way to eliminate guns.

It is not necessary to totally eliminate guns. It is enough to reduce their numbers drastically to have a beneficial effect. If guns are hard to get commercially and illegal to own without a permit, few people will take the trouble to hand-build them.

I would prefer the USCCB to TEACH Catholic morality and doctrine … you do not go around hurting your fellow man and you do not go around taking their stuff.

The bishops of the Church have the mission not only to recite the Catechism, but also to apply morality and doctrine to contemporary problems. That is not outside of their ministry.

 

[TK421]

The USCCB of course only goes so far in involving itself in politics, but the idea that there is always a clean distinction between religion and politics is a modern invention in the first place and not endorsed in the CCC.

The USCCB is itself in communion with Rome, which is the head of the Universal Church. While Rome tends to speak on universally applicable subjects, bishops in specific countries are sometimes compelled to speak on issues that are more unique to their individual country. African bishops might speak on issues relating to tribal politics, for example. Because gun culture is such an anomaly to the US, it isn’t so surprising that it would be at least mentioned at some point by the American bishops in speaking to their flock.

 

[MonteRCMS]

People who refuse to obey laws or rules will continue to do whatever they want to do.

Only law abiding or scrupulous people will obey the rules and laws. The law abiding or scrupulous people are NOT the problem.

 

[Fuerza]

Do you by any chance have a picture or link? 12-gauge shells are much larger than what could be contained in a pistol, so it would be hard for a pistol-sized gun to hold more than one. That would totally defeat the purpose of being fully automatic.

 

[MonteRCMS]

I looked on YouTube and there are all kinds of 12-gauge machine guns. Although the one on Facebook was much more compact.

Do a search and see how you do.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The big problem with the USCCB having an opinion on everything is that the more opinions, the less weight any of them carry.
Coming out strong on a clear position taken by the Church on one issue, e.g. "abortion is wrong " carries weight…but only if the bishops are not also releasing 15 other statements, many of them not on issues with a clear Church position. Pretty soon they’re releasing an opinion a week and most people are ignoring them all.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The big problem with the USCCB having an opinion on everything is that the more opinions, the less weight any of them carry.
Coming out strong on a clear position taken by the Church on one issue, e.g. "abortion is wrong " carries weight…but only if the bishops are not also releasing 15 other statements, many of them not on issues with a clear Church position. Pretty soon they’re releasing an opinion a week and most people are ignoring them all.

They will not be ignored by those who are obedient to God’s designated authorities on earth.

 

[Fuerza]

I am aware of 12-gauge machine guns, but I have never seen one as as small as a standard pistol. Even searching “12 gauge machine pistol” turned up something much larger. That’s why I asked which one in particular you have seen.

 

[XndrK]

Just because he’s Cardinal Walter Kasper doesn’t mean I have to listen to him when he says things that are verifiably false and not ex cathedra.

I don’t recall the parts of Scripture or Tradition having to do with gun control per se. The USCCB is making pronouncements of their own human judgment.

I find many of them in error.

 

[pnewton]

The big problem with the USCCB having an opinion on everything is that the more opinions, the less weight any of them carry.

I do not understand why that would be true. Knowledge is not zero sum. Besides, these opinions carry no weight, regardless of the topic, except for those that give it weight based on their relationship with the Catholic Church and Her leadership.

Just because he’s Cardinal Walter Kasper doesn’t mean I have to listen to him

Huh? He’s German.

 

[Ender]

Is this the same Ender that is quick to rely on the authority of a single bishop to support the claim that a Catholic may never vote for a pro-abortion candidate? And you are now saying that the combined will of all the bishops in the US can be easily met with “who cares?”

Nope, don’t think it’s the same Ender. At least this one has no recollection of ever saying that (nor would I as I disagree with that claim).

There is a fairly basic point here that needs to be recognized: when the bishops speak on questions of morality they are to be listened to, but when they express their political opinions, well their opinions are rarely interesting and never compelling.

 

[Ender]

They will not be ignored by those who are obedient to God’s designated authorities on earth.

They are not God’s designated authorities on political issues. The obligation to resolve such issues in fact lies with the laity, not the clergy.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Just because he’s Cardinal Walter Kasper doesn’t mean I have to listen to him when he says things that are verifiably false and not ex cathedra.

I don’t recall the parts of Scripture or Tradition having to do with gun control per se. The USCCB is making pronouncements of their own human judgment.

I find many of them in error.

Scripture and tradition also say nothing about human cloning. I think you will agree that it is a proper subject for a bishop’s commentary.