LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That is fine, if you want that for your kid. But why should parents who don’t want their kids to have anything to do with guns be forced to submit their kids to this training?
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pnewton
Guest
I would concur with this. The NRA does a great job of training in fire-arms, with the one addition that some of the best trainers I know are police officers who teach on the side. But yes, the NRA is the gold standard, one might say.
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FrDavid96
Guest
I do not know the direct answer to that.
What I do know is that it is universally accepted that such types of programs are indeed effective in their own fields.
Sparky the firedog is regarded as an effective program to teach fire safety.
Smokey the Bear is regarded as an effective program to teach campfire safety.
When I was in school, we had all kinds of safety programs: dental hygiene, crossing the street, what to do if the Russians launch the bomb (ok, maybe not the best example).
The point is that we have all kinds of safety programs for children. Firearms safety taught by people who actually know what they’re talking about should be part of that.
I mean, I would not want someone to come into a classroom teaching dental hygiene who announces “I don’t believe anyone should have a toothbrush.”
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pnewton
Guest
My concern is the there was a segment a while back where they had hidden cameras on kids after the Eddie Eagle program and the kids pretty much ignored what was said and handled the guns (props) that were present when the adults were out of sight. But that is just news media. I wanted to be open to any evidence that shows it is a worthwhile program.
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FrDavid96
Guest
What you might not know is that those police officers have training certificates from the NRA directly, or from NRA-approved programs.
Calling you on this. Give an example of “hate-filled” ideology, and a source. Most of the hate is being directed at the NRA. Lots of lies, too.
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Inisfallen
Guest
The NRA may very well be very good at teaching firearms safety. I take no position on that. I don’t know enough to have an intelligent opinion on that subject.
What I don’t like is everything else the NRA does, and in particular their ideological promotion, as evidenced by the video to which I linked above. I would think the USCCB would object to that as much as I do. As I said, I don’t want the same people who created that bit of nastiness having a pulpit from which to preach in my children’s school.
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Inisfallen
Guest
I gave an example. I linked to one of their videos above. It speaks for itself.
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twf
Guest
American Republican first, Catholic a distant second. That’s what I’ve often seen on this forum.
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twf
Guest
Father,
With respect, how exactly do you define the liberal mindset? It sounds like most on this thread believe the US Catholic bishops have a “liberal” mindset.
Yet the entire Catholic world outside of the US just scratches its head when we see the views reflected on this forum on such issues…
With respect, how exactly do you define the liberal mindset? It sounds like most on this thread believe the US Catholic bishops have a “liberal” mindset.
Yet the entire Catholic world outside of the US just scratches its head when we see the views reflected on this forum on such issues…
Hate? I thought it was spot on. The hate is coming from the blackshirts in Antifa, with their expected fascistic tactics, and the anti free speech hate in college campuses.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Being Catholic doesn’t mean having some kind of false balance between left and right. The notion that left and right are balanced is intellectually lazy and made by the easily fooled.
It means it’s easier for the bishops, like a lot of other Catholics, to take the side of the left on issues like climate change or gun control while checking logic at the door in order to virtue-signal or believe in “institutions” like academia or the media because they have a guy in a perm-pressed suit telling them. So on the surface, it looks good and lets them avoid the dreadful square label of being right-wing. But what if the left is so terrible and post-modern policy-wise, that being right-wing and Catholic just happen to be the same?
Frankly, I don’t recall NRA members out in the streets during a presidential inauguration, vandalizing property, breaking windows, or burning cars. I don’t recall NRA members violently attacking people because of their political views like progressives did in the last election cycle. I can’t recall NRA members disrupting political campaign rallies. That was all progressives doing the hate.
Mark121359
Well-known member
Yep. I had no problem with what Dana says in the video.
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Inisfallen
Guest
Oh, please, stop with this “progressives” nonsense. Antifa aren’t progressives, or liberals, they’re a bunch of jerks who travel around the country looking for fights. They have no program, no plans, no nothing. Liberals or progressives or whatever you want to call us have nothing to do with them, and want nothing to do with them.
It’s a neat little trick you’re trying to pull off, tarring those who disagree with you politically with a very broad brush. Like someone who votes Democratic, and is mildly liberal on the issues of, say, taxation or gun regulation, is exactly the same as someone at a demonstration with a black mask throwing a rock through a window.
It’s exactly the same as if I said every Republican, or everyone with a mildly conservative point of view on taxation or gun regulation, is exactly the same as Richard Spencer. And just as dishonest.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Are you suggesting that the US bishops are more concerned about avoiding a right-wing label than they are about doing what they think is right? I can understand how someone may think the bishops are sincerely mistaken, but I cannot accept the premise that the bishops are actually insincere.twf:
It means it’s easier for the bishops, like a lot of other Catholics, to take the side of the left on issues like climate change or gun control while checking logic at the door in order to virtue-signal or believe in “institutions” like academia or the media because they have a guy in a perm-pressed suit telling them. So on the surface, it looks good and lets them avoid the dreadful square label of being right-wing.
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twf
Guest
So being Catholic means being “right wing”?
When did that begin? In what era and by what definition? The US Founding Fathers and the system of governance they devised was radically progressive / liberal for their time (and see as such by good Catholics).
I remain a staunch monarchist and always will, as the Church promoted for most of Her history…so in that sense I am far more conservative than you… but on other issues, clearly more liberal.
When did that begin? In what era and by what definition? The US Founding Fathers and the system of governance they devised was radically progressive / liberal for their time (and see as such by good Catholics).
I remain a staunch monarchist and always will, as the Church promoted for most of Her history…so in that sense I am far more conservative than you… but on other issues, clearly more liberal.
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twf
Guest
On certain key issues I would agree. Abortion and gay marriage being very obvious examples… from the limited perspective of how “right wing” happens to currently be defined in the United States (and to various extents, the Western World as a whole). That doesn’t mean that Catholicism nicely aligns with every aspect of being “right wing” in contemporary America. That’s intellectual laziness… “oh the Republican platform is 100% Catholic…no need to reflect further”.
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Inisfallen
Guest
Do you really think the USCCB is just virtue-signalling? Really? That’s what they’re doing?
You have a remarkably low opinion of our bishops.
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FrDavid96
Guest
That only brings up the question of what those same kids might have done had they gone through some other kind of firearms program.FrDavid96:
My concern is the there was a segment a while back where they had hidden cameras on kids after the Eddie Eagle program and the kids pretty much ignored what was said and handled the guns (props) that were present when the adults were out of sight. But that is just news media. I wanted to be open to any evidence that shows it is a worthwhile program.
What does Handgun Control Inc. do in the way of teaching children? How effective are their programs if they even exist?
I would also want to watch such a video to see exactly what those children did with the prop guns. How many of them pointed the guns at each other and tried to pull the trigger? I don’t know. I don’t know if the results would have been any different had they not done the Eddie program.
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