Should active homosexuals be allowed to volunteer or work at Catholic Schools?

[GloriaPatri4]

midwest mom:

Illinois, being the “progressive” state it is, just passed a new law. Homosexuals can not be denied a job because of their sexual orientation.

catholiccitizens.org/press/pressview.asp?c=22190

If you follow Illinois politics, you know listening to our govenor quote scripture is hard to swallow.

We have a lesbian who is working in our school as a lunchroom aid and is also jr. high girls basketball coach. It makes it hard for our new priest to deal with this now. (We had a very liberal priest who let everyone do what ever.)

She brings her girlfriend to ball games and school functions. They are a very open couple. All the students know the situation. Of course, since she took over as basketball coach, they no longer pray before or after games. She has the full support of the principal.

Hopefully, we will have a new principal next year, but I’m not sure how that will help with the coach. I’m sure she will try to sue if she is not rehired!
What a mess.

Dear Midwest mom,

I copied the paragraph from another forum that you had posted on. This is a paragraph from a letter written by your bishop. I think if you went to him with your concerns and pointed out what he wrote in his letter you should get some results if not contact Roman Catholic Faithful.

*A letter from Bishop Laky from Peoria Diocese, Illinois

*Christ the Teacher

We do not sponsor a private school system; we support a Catholic school system. Our approach to religious education and moral instruction should never be Catholic light, but always Catholic intensive. Catholic doctrine, Catholic ritual, Catholic ethos, and a deliberately Catholic commitment to social justice should dominate all our programs. Our moral standards for students, parents, volunteers, teachers, coaches, and administrators must always be higher than those of any secular institution. Jesus Christ should always be publicly acknowledged as the Teacher in our schools and the Lord of everything we undertake in religious education or college-age ministries. Our efforts for academic excellence, success in sports, friendship, and spirit must always be preeminently grounded in the shared spiritual life, worship, morality, and tradition of this Catholic Diocese.

 

[sweetchuck]

dennisknapp:

Katherine,

Why do you think active homosexuals should be allowed to volunteer at a Catholic schools. Wouldn’t this be confusing children regarding Catholic moral teaching about homosexuality?

Peace

Agreed. Especially if the person warms to the children, they might think, “well this person is nice, and she has a wife/girlfriend, and she works for the church, that lifestyle must be acceptable to the faith. But they say it’s not, so they must not mean what they say.”

a rational conclusion. I think that’s precisely why active homosexuals should not work for schools. Chaste homosexuals, on the other hand, do not live in contradiction of church teachings. Hence, there is no problem with them serving as an example to children. Children exposed to these good people might learn such virtues as not to throw morality aside and give into the temptations of the flesh.

And I dispute Lisa N’s claim…

“Frankly if the homosexual IS chaste, then the school officials and other parents wouldn’t even know his/her inclinations. So it wouldn’t be an issue.”

…as unlikely. First of all, many chaste homosexuals before they found Christ were open and practicing, and it would be likely that that would be known. Also, if the person were a member of Courage or had spoken publicly about living a chaste life while tempted with homosexual attraction, that could be publicly known without the person flaunting it. We witness to Christ through our weaknesses. If a person is tempted with homosexual attractions but chooses not to indulge those temptations, I see no reason for them to keep that to themselves.

We carry the cross that we are given, but we can’t let our brothers and sisters carry their crosses on their own. We have to learn the lessons of Calvary. We have to be Simon to others, we have to be Veronica in our tenderness. We have to be Mary, Magdalene, or John and just BE there. Because we play a role in all our Calvaries, whether we’re a positive figure, a brutal figure, or like the other disciples, who just weren’t there. Homosexual attraction is a weighty cross, one that is deadly and poses many dangers. On their cross they can be as the unrepentant thief who mocks the Lord, or they can be as the repentant thief and act humbly in the presence of the Lord. It’s a deadly cross that could crush them or lift them up. How do we help them?

 

[m134e5]

If they are an active homosexual, they obviously are not living a chaste life, and are living in sin. They should not have ANY ministry in the Church, whether it be working in the schools, the parishes, the hospitals, or anything. If they are living a chaste life, then they should be encouraged to work for the Church. Working in a religious atmosphere can help strengthen people in virtue, help them in their prayer life, and help them make good friends- all of which can be very helpful to people struggling with homosexuality.

 

[katherine2]

dennisknapp:

Katherine,

Why do you think active homosexuals should be allowed to volunteer at a Catholic schools. Wouldn’t this be confusing children regarding Catholic moral teaching about homosexuality?

Peace

Dennis,

Let me first say I think your previous post was a helpful cotnribution. I particularly appreciate you putting it in terms of a personal opinion and observation as to the wisest and looking towards prudence.

You asked a question regarding actively gay parents volunteering in a Catholic school. And I responded as such,

**I think it best they … This would be the wisest thing to do. …**should be handled with the greatest of care. Prudence is always the best option

I would hope polite and thoughtful observations like your would always be welcome as the pastor, principal and parish & school communities make this discernment.

However, it does seem a local question of discernment. it touches on rather subjective matters of how people react to certain actions. Those who approach this situation with an absolutism are not being helpful. Does a gay person locking up the playground equiment after recess and telling the kids not to run in the street promote homosexuality or does theri banishment deny the Church’s teaching that even sinners have human dignity?

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Homosexuals are not pedophiles!!! I can’t believe the amount of bigotry coming forth in this thread!! Homosexuals who live a chaste life are to be embraced by their communities as models of Christian living. Are children to be removed from bipolar, depressed, OCD, narcissistic, agorophobic, neurotic and mentally retarted people as well? Some of these posts are hate-mongering at best. All people are called to live chaste lives, why reject someone who has committed their life to doing so?
[/quote]

But pedophiles are homosexual! :yup:

And once again, homosexuality is NOT a race, religion, or an ethnic group. It is a disorder. So no one is demonstrating bigotry against a homosexual.

 

[sweetchuck]

Kevin Walker:

But pedophiles are homosexual! :yup:

And so are teachers, fathers and uncles. They’re pedophiles, too. But being a teacher, father or uncle does not make them a pedophile, now does it? I’m not arguing with you that homosexuality is a disorder. It certainly is. But despite what one could conclude from your rank logical flaw, homosexuality is not the same disorder as pedophilia. They are both sexual disorders, but they are FAR different.

 

[Lisa_N]

sweetchuck:

And I dispute Lisa N’s claim…

“Frankly if the homosexual IS chaste, then the school officials and other parents wouldn’t even know his/her inclinations. So it wouldn’t be an issue.”

…as unlikely. First of all, many chaste homosexuals before they found Christ were open and practicing, and it would be likely that that would be known. Also, if the person were a member of Courage or had spoken publicly about living a chaste life while tempted with homosexual attraction, that could be publicly known without the person flaunting it.

.
?

First, why WOULD the school KNOW about the person’s inclinations UNLESS that person told them? IOW the idea that a homosexual can be spotted on the street is pretty unlikely although certainly the stereotypes are out there and obvious. Even if the formerly active homosexual were ‘open and practicing’ in the past, why on earth would it have come to the attention of a school? If I walk into a school and offer to volunteer, what is the likelihood the school officials will know about my sex life?

Frankly I think the problem is NOT the chaste homosexual who wants his/her ‘cross’ a private matter but the ‘we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it’ attitude. As several have pointed out the homosexuals who are causing the concern are those who are very open about their sexual practices.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

sweetchuck:

And so are teachers, fathers and uncles. They’re pedophiles, too. But being a teacher, father or uncle does not make them a pedophile, now does it? I’m not arguing with you that homosexuality is a disorder. It certainly is. But despite what one could conclude from your rank logical flaw, homosexuality is not the same disorder as pedophilia. They are both sexual disorders, but they are FAR different.

True statement but you keep denying another very true statement and that there are a greater percentage of pedophiles who are homosexual or who prey upon the same sex than the percentage of homosexuals in society. Homosexuals make up 3% of the population according to some recent studies, a percentage that seems to have more credence than Kinsey’s report of 10%. In contrast 30% of the pedophiles are homosexual. If it were within the same percentages of the total population then you couldn’t draw any conclusion about the likelihood of a homosexual being a pedophile as well. Even if Kinsey were right with his 10% figure, the reality of greater numbers of homosexual pedophiles vis a vis heterosexual pedophiles is still quite significant.

Lisa N

 

[sweetchuck]

Lisa N:

True statement but you keep denying another very true statement and that there are a greater percentage of pedophiles who are homosexual or who prey upon the same sex than the percentage of homosexuals in society.

:tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk:
That’s not true at all. I have not said that. You should not project untrue words in my posts based on what you think I think. I have not denied that there is a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia. I know I haven’t, because of two reasons: I don’t lie, and I know a correlation exists. But a correlation does not a pedophile make. No homosexual I have ever known, and I have known a great number as I live in a very homosexual area, has been a pedophile or has been accused of such a thing. Do medical insurers not insure blacks because of their increased risk of sickle-cell anemia? No, not all blacks have sickle-cell anemia. No wonder so many homosexuals hate Catholics, apparently, many of us think they are pedophiles. It is not fair to any person who is not a pedophile to be categorized as someone who should thought of as a pedophile, just to be safe. Ask your priest what that feels like. That’s such bigotry.

And Lisa, I don’t understand how a school could NOT know about a chaste homosexual’s past, I gave you several examples in which they would. A good school would be able to find this out in a simple background check. All I’m saying is don’t punish the chaste homosexuals. Also, don’t punish practicing homosexuals with false allegations of pedophilia. Granted, they are living sinful lives, but don’t accuse them of sins they are not committing. That certainly is against charity and will push them away from the very place they need to be: The Catholic Church (which is where all people need to be).

 

[fix]

sweetchuck:

And so are teachers, fathers and uncles. They’re pedophiles, too. But being a teacher, father or uncle does not make them a pedophile, now does it? I’m not arguing with you that homosexuality is a disorder. It certainly is. But despite what one could conclude from your rank logical flaw, homosexuality is not the same disorder as pedophilia. They are both sexual disorders, but they are FAR different.

Would you deny that many male homosexuals have a proclivity for teenage males? Not pedophelia, but still a tendency toward this group?

 

[fix]

St.Claire:

Should active (practicing) homosexuals be allowed to volunteer or work at Catholic Schools ?

No. Why would that be acceptable? If two, or more, are living a public sin and causing scandal why should they be allowed to work around children in a catholic school?

 

[Lisa_N]

Sweetchuck you need to read your own posts. You immediately jump to the conclusion that if someone points out there is a higher percentage of homosexuals amongst pedophiles, they mean ALL homosexuals are pedophiles. No one has said that. They have said there is a HIGHER percentage. Please go back and find a post where someone stated all homosexuals are pedophiles. I don’t think you can find one.

As to the school finding out about someone’s past sex life, how in the WORLD would they know unless the person told them? Have you had a background check done? I have had several in connection with volunteer work with children. They look for felonies, drug/substance abuse, and certain contacts with law enforcement. They do not get a list of people who were in your bedroom in the past.

If you’ve worked in either law enforcement or social services dealing with sexually abused children you will learn the sad truth that even WITH background checks, pedophiles slip through the cracks all the time. They do not know or find out about consensual adult activities even WITH a background check.

Lisa N

 

[miguel]

sweetchuck:

…I have not denied that there is a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia…I know a correlation exists…No homosexual I have ever known, and I have known a great number as I live in a very homosexual area, has been a pedophile or has been accused of such a thing…

Your personal experience is anecdotal (i.e., not useful for making policy). Ironically, the experience of the Church in the clergy sex abuse scandal clearly illustrates the folly of treating people with this disorder as if there is none. The lax thinking went along the lines of “as long as these guys are celibate, there’s no problem with ordination.” That sounds nice in theory. But it has turned out to be a disaster in practice…10,667 total victims, 81% male, 19% female, 6600 teenage victims of homosexual predators, 2000 child victims. This is statistically significant data, useful for making policy. If we ignore it, we’ll be down this sorry road again. The bottom line for me is protecting the little ones from predators.

sweetchuck:

…Do medical insurers not insure blacks because of their increased risk of sickle-cell anemia? No, not all blacks have sickle-cell anemia. No wonder so many homosexuals hate Catholics, apparently, many of us think they are pedophiles. It is not fair to any person who is not a pedophile to be categorized as someone who should thought of as a pedophile, just to be safe. Ask your priest what that feels like. That’s such bigotry.

You’re right it’s not fair. But I don’t think anyone is categorizing all homosexuals as pedophiles. We simply want the disorder to be recognised as such, and wise policy to follow…policy that safeguards children as a priority, safeguards the reputation and financial health of the Church, and also respects the dignity of homosexuals. It’s a balance. No one will be 100% happy. But safeguarding the kids is number 1.

 

[space_ghost]

St.Claire:

Should active (practicing) homosexuals be allowed to volunteer or work at Catholic Schools ?

given the specificity of your question… I vote no… But, I also need to clarify… Those openly practicing the marriage act and not living within the bonds of marriage, or is openly practicing aborant life styles (i,e, living within commune’s) would get my no vote as well.

The example set for children, should be one that the faith applauds…

 

[KDoerr]

The key word was “active” so I voted no. Homosexuality is a disorder and until the person has been treated and cured of the disorder, they shouldn’t be around children.

 

[katherine2]

fix:

Would you deny that many male homosexuals have a proclivity for teenage males? Not pedophelia, but still a tendency toward this group?

Not as many as those who have a proclivty for teenage girls.

But I must say, lesbians and heterosexual women seem to be the least likely sexual abusers of teens.

 

[fix]

katherine2:

Not as many as those who have a proclivty for teenage girls.

But I must say, lesbians and heterosexual women seem to be the least likely sexual abusers of teens.

Ask fathers if they feel more comfortable with their teen daughters around married men or their teen sons around “gay” men.

 

[Lisa_N]

katherine2:

Not as many as those who have a proclivty for teenage girls.

But I must say, lesbians and heterosexual women seem to be the least likely sexual abusers of teens.

WOMEN, homosexual, heterosexual, asexual, whatever sexual are far less likely to be sexual predators than males. PERIOD. And your point is??? MHO is that there is a MAJOR difference between homosexuality as manifested in males and females.

I also do not know too many male homosexuals who have a proclivity for teenage girls.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

miguel:

Your personal experience is anecdotal (i.e., not useful for making policy). Ironically, the experience of the Church in the clergy sex abuse scandal clearly illustrates the folly of treating people with this disorder as if there is none. The lax thinking went along the lines of “as long as these guys are celibate, there’s no problem with ordination.” That sounds nice in theory. But it has turned out to be a disaster in practice…10,667 total victims, 81% male, 19% female, 6600 teenage victims of homosexual predators, 2000 child victims. This is statistically significant data, useful for making policy. If we ignore it, we’ll be down this sorry road again. The bottom line for me is protecting the little ones from predators.

. No one will be 100% happy. But safeguarding the kids is number 1.

This is so on point. If ANY organization should have learned about the dangers of placing children in the control of male homosexuals it should be the Catholic church. You also make a good point that not only have these men stated they would remain chaste, they have taken holy orders and presumably took these vows seriously. If a priest can’t stay chaste it’s expecting a lot of someone who doesn’t have this kind of religious commitment.

Unfortunately people who truly believe they are being Christian by uplifting and supporting active homosexuals and demanding they not be prohibited from ANY activities have provided a smoke screen for the few evildoers to hide behind. We just had an INCREDIBLY sad and sick newstory of a young man who committed suicide because he didn’t want to be thought of as a ‘snitch and a homosexual’ The young man is one of sixty one who have made claims against a JUVENILE JUSTICE OFFICER who although a homosexual was allowed to choose young males 13-17 for his cases. Oh and BELIEVE me he had many layers of background checks but he managed to operate under the radar for decades. There are charges pending that not only did he molest these young men but he also placed some of this cases with male homosexual “foster parents” who then used them for sexual abuse. It is a sad sick world out there and while no not all homosexuals prey upon younger males, it should still be a warning that this can happen and decisions made accordingly. Children first.

Lisa N

 

[sweetchuck]

Lisa N:

Sweetchuck you need to read your own posts. You immediately jump to the conclusion that if someone points out there is a higher percentage of homosexuals amongst pedophiles, they mean ALL homosexuals are pedophiles. No one has said that. They have said there is a HIGHER percentage. Please go back and find a post where someone stated all homosexuals are pedophiles. I don’t think you can find one.

I haven’t jumped to any conclusions about you, but Kevin Walker’s first post seemed along those lines.

But I haven’t jumped to that conclusion against anyone else, because I know that there’s a correlation (albeit a small one) between homosexuality and other sexual disorders. My objection is treating homosexuals AS IF they were pedophiles. That’s just not right. Now, if you want to not hire them based on the grounds of them living immoral lives, that’s fine. But if you don’t hire them because you’re afraid they’ll touch a kid or something, well that’s just not right. That’s unjustified. That’s irrational. Ask a priest what it’s like to be treated like a pedophile when they’re not. No person who is not a pedophile should ever be treated like a pedophile. I don’t think anyone here understands the stigma and the humiliation involved in being wrongfully accused or wrongfully stereotyped there.
Lisa N:

As to the school finding out about someone’s past sex life, how in the WORLD would they know unless the person told them? Have you had a background check done? I have had several in connection with volunteer work with children. They look for felonies, drug/substance abuse, and certain contacts with law enforcement. They do not get a list of people who were in your bedroom in the past.

All that it takes is for them to put on their resume that they’re a member of Courage. I’m saying, it’s not that tough for a school to know. It would be easily known if the person was well known in the community into which they were applying for a job. You act as if it’s impossible or if they’d be flaunting it or something. Now, I understand what you’re saying, that in the majority of cases in which schools would know would be in the cases of practicing homosexuals who say, “what kind of benefits will you give to my partner.” But I think many of you are reading in my posts something that I am not saying. I fact, I think some of you are projecting into my posts that I am advocating for the hiring of all homosexuals. Let me emphasize who I’m advocating for:

chaste!
Chaste!
CHASTE!

JUST DON’T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST SOMEONE WHO’S LIVING A CHASTE LIFE! That’s all. If they’re PRACTICING, you’re justified in not hiring them, absolutely! See what I voted for?