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sweet_moya
Guest
So I guess people who suffer from depression or bulimia should not be allowed to volunteer either. Your point makes not sense at all.
Kevin Walker:
Kevin Walker:
Should active homosexuals be allowed to volunteer or work at Catholic Schools?
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roymckenzie
Guest
You answered your question by stating “active”
Active, indicates they are in an open state of mortal sin. If anyone is in an open state of mortal sin I would say no, not even if that open state of mortal sin is living with your concubine.
Active, indicates they are in an open state of mortal sin. If anyone is in an open state of mortal sin I would say no, not even if that open state of mortal sin is living with your concubine.
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Kevin_Walker
Guest
Your answer is a total *non-sequitur, *do people with depression or bulmia commit male or child rape; or do they engage in sado-masochistic behaviour; do they rationalize; are they narcisisstic; do they demonstrate above average amounts of anti-social behaviour, self-destructive behaviour, and dillusional thinking; do they demonstrate above average rates of homocide or suicide or dementia or denial or projection?
The answer is no! But homosexuals do demonstrate all the above!
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Lisa_N
Guest
Kind of comparing apples and organes moya. While I do not think a bulemic is a good role model, the reality is that most of them are EXTREMELY secretive and not exhibiting this behavior publically. Depression can lead to other destructive acts but in general both of these problems are internal and more of a private hell than a shared experience.
Lisa N
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
Kevin Walker:
there is no basis for any of that
I’ve known heterosexual people with very serious mental disorders
Some of whom shouldn’t be around children…most of whom were fine
Once again this vitriol is just amazing
Don’t start judging groups. That way lies a whole lot of problems
fix:
It’s about singling out one particular brand of sinner rather than another
Is anyone saying the heterosexual school volunteers are without sin?
If Johnny’s mom has affairs or if his dad steals from his company would they be turned away? So apparently it is the type of sin that is a concern here rather than sinnfullness in general
The Church isn’t for perfect people, they don’t need it
But the rest of us do
We all struggle with our own demons
Who are you to say that yours are worse (or better) than mine?
IFAIK Works are still a key tenant of Catholicism
I heard a nice sermon last Sunday about the poor in spirit…those who struggle… those who question
No? How can you make a broad characterization that all of these people here do this and all of those people over there do that?
there is no basis for any of that
I’ve known heterosexual people with very serious mental disorders
Some of whom shouldn’t be around children…most of whom were fine
Once again this vitriol is just amazing
Don’t start judging groups. That way lies a whole lot of problems
It is not about admonishing people for sinful behavior or not
It’s about singling out one particular brand of sinner rather than another
Is anyone saying the heterosexual school volunteers are without sin?
If Johnny’s mom has affairs or if his dad steals from his company would they be turned away? So apparently it is the type of sin that is a concern here rather than sinnfullness in general
The Church isn’t for perfect people, they don’t need it
But the rest of us do
We all struggle with our own demons
Who are you to say that yours are worse (or better) than mine?
IFAIK Works are still a key tenant of Catholicism
I heard a nice sermon last Sunday about the poor in spirit…those who struggle… those who question
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miguel
Guest
Lisa N:
10 It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.
But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase.
I think your statement sums up Church teaching well. From Cardinal Ratzinger’s (CDF, 1986) “Letter to Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons”:
10 It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.
But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase.
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Kevin_Walker
Guest
Steve Andersen:
No one is advocating violence against homosexuals, but the truth, and not politically correct propaganda, must be told regarding homosexuality before another tragedy with a child results.
Well-adjusted Homosexual is an oxymoron, and conflicted homosexual is a tataulogy. Homosexuality is a condition that does exhibit irrational and emotionally damaged behaviour, that is what it means to be homosexual.
No one is advocating violence against homosexuals, but the truth, and not politically correct propaganda, must be told regarding homosexuality before another tragedy with a child results.
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mayanneee
Guest
tom.wineman said:
being gay is not a choice it’s who they are… i hope none of your children arnt gay…not because it’s a hard life…but because of your short sightedness attitude…if they turned out 2 be different 2 u, u may lose part of your family…and that would be a loss…all people no matter there sexuality have feelings and faith…remember god created all of us, not just the straight men and women…all of us!!!
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mayanneee
Guest
jesus was a great political figure who was all about including every 1 in the church…i believe that he wasnt about exclusion at all!!! and n e 1 that wants 2 exclude a single group from being spirtual or voluntarying in society…just because of there sexualitity should be ashamed of their moral values!!! every 1 has a right 2 be included in religion!!! and 4 those people who think i must be gay 4 sticking up 4 gay peoples rights!!! i’m not gay…and some of the most moral and nicest people i have meet are gay…and are in tune with society…and give their free time 2 help with people who are less fortunate!!!
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
Kevin Walker:
This was about not letting someone volunteer to do needed work …for free; just because their particular temptation is different than yours
Nothing new or “PC” about it; the people who were trying to stone Magdalene were acting the same way.
The assumption that just because someone is a homosexual that he/she will be automatically untrustworthy around children is just plain silly.
My Niece works for a State child welfare organization and my Fiancé was a guardian ad litem; all the children they rescued were raped by heterosexuals.
Sad really
Most people are fine…it is just the few who make it bad for the rest “And thus thy fall hath left a kind of blot, to mark the full-fraught man and best indued with some suspicion.”
Who said anything about violence?
This was about not letting someone volunteer to do needed work …for free; just because their particular temptation is different than yours
Nothing new or “PC” about it; the people who were trying to stone Magdalene were acting the same way.
The assumption that just because someone is a homosexual that he/she will be automatically untrustworthy around children is just plain silly.
My Niece works for a State child welfare organization and my Fiancé was a guardian ad litem; all the children they rescued were raped by heterosexuals.
Sad really
Most people are fine…it is just the few who make it bad for the rest “And thus thy fall hath left a kind of blot, to mark the full-fraught man and best indued with some suspicion.”
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MeaCulpa
Guest
I am not certain this has been proven, at least not in all cases.
However, it is a mute point because the question was should 'ACTIVELY" homosexual persons, etc. Active means they are are practicing a homosexual lifestyle, i.e. having sex.
Of course we are told to be tolerant of homosexuals but they should be chaste, not active just as heterosexuals who are unmarried are to be chaste - got it.
An “active” homosexual is not chaste and should not be allowed around children. Good grief, even some priests we see who are homosexual have molested our children - so if they could not resist the temptation, why put a known active homosexual in that position.
Oh someone is going to say they were not homosexuals but pediophiles - sorry, that’s just being pc by the news media. Given the age of most of the youth molested, they were young men which are often the prey of homosexuals, some younger.
Pediophilia preys on much younger children and they may be male or female.
To the person who compared it with bulemia - that’s crazy.
Putting homosexuals in a situation where they may be tempted is just plain scandal and would be akin to asking a 16 year old male to work backstage in a strip joint - too much temptation.
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roymckenzie
Guest
I am sorry my friend but Jesus was not all inclusive. There are a number of parables where Jesus spoke of exclusivity. The first that comes to mind is the one about the maids, flasks of oil and the lamps. The maids that did not have enough oil and went to buy some were excluded. Then it comes to mind the thieves on the cross the one that did not acknowledge Jesus as God was not included when Jesus said this day you will be with me in paradise.
Jesus did not include those who were committing an evil and did not repent of their sinful ways.
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AnnieD
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No…I don’t think homosexuals should be allowed to volunteer or work at Catholic Schools, even if they say they will be chaste, because there is a big chance they can go back to being active, just like having an ex-alcoholic work in a tavern, would be a very big risk, that the ex-alcoholic could have a relapse.
Wonder how long before masochists and sadists will want their special rights too, and have laws for them so they won’t get their feelers hurt.
Annie
Wonder how long before masochists and sadists will want their special rights too, and have laws for them so they won’t get their feelers hurt.
Annie
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AnnieD
Guest
No…I don’t think homosexuals should be allowed to volunteer or work at Catholic Schools, even if they say they will be chaste, because there is a big chance they can go back to being active, just like having an ex-alcoholic work in a tavern, would be a very big risk, that the ex-alcoholic could have a relapse.
Annie
Annie
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
If we don’t allow sinners to volunteer at Catholic schools, who is going to work there? The acid test should be whether a person advocates against the teaching of the Church. If someone is in the habit of saying, “Well, the Church is wrong on this or that”, then that is a big problem, particularly if the matter is grave. But if they refuse to contradict the Church, you can’t throw them out because their lives don’t meet the mark or because they are not sufficiently aware of their sins. None of us would pass that test.
Really, are you going to strap the heterosexuals to a lie detector and ask if they slept together before marriage, ever use contraception, fudge on their taxes, gossip, contribute to strife in their families, always vote the Catholic party line (whatever that is) and so on? Half of all Catholic marriages end in divorce. Are we going to send the kids of the divorced parents away, too, until they get their annulments? Of course not.
Really, are you going to strap the heterosexuals to a lie detector and ask if they slept together before marriage, ever use contraception, fudge on their taxes, gossip, contribute to strife in their families, always vote the Catholic party line (whatever that is) and so on? Half of all Catholic marriages end in divorce. Are we going to send the kids of the divorced parents away, too, until they get their annulments? Of course not.
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AnnieD
Guest
Would you want Masochists and Sadists around your children at Catholic Schools, because they could be the next group demanding special laws so their feelers aren’t hurt.
Everything is supposed to be so acceptable in today’s world. Like nothing is bad.
That’s why so many children were abused by Priests, because it was accepted by the church hierarchy and the Priests were moved to other churches, instead of the Priests being turned over to the police and arrested like everyone else would be, who prey on and abuse children.
I don’t see the reason for sexual sinners who could put our children at risk, to be around our children.
Annie
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TheGarg
Guest
you are so wrong its not evan funny.
continuing to be or live gay is a choice, granted it is a hard condtion to fix, like any other misguided attempt to deal with pain, but a choice none the less.
There is no scientific evidence WHATSOEVER to even make the “gay gene” hypothesis plausible.
We need to love our gay brothers and sisters, like Christ does, but we must also show them the truth, not accept the lies that surround and control them.
peace of the Lord be with you!
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
“Like nothing is bad”? I don’t understand. I did not suggest at all that the school should not be clear on what Church teaching is or that anyone should be allowed on campus if they advocate against it. I’m suggesting that if only the sinless need apply, the volunteer list will be rather short.
Children are abused when nobody can believe that any of the “nice” people they know were capable of that. The perpetrators re-offend because others can’t believe anything so disgusting could be a compulsion, that there was a person living who couldn’t just stop by deciding the stop.
Of course pedophiles should not be allowed near children. You only have to embezzle or even try to embezzle from a bank once and you are never allowed that position of trust again. It should be thrice so with crimes of a sexual nature. It is not that the guilty should be punished forever, but these crimes so often are tied to compulsive disorders and the outcomes so grievous that a re-offense just cannot be chanced.
But really, if you do not believe any of the parents at your school could possibly have some sexual sins in their past (or present), think again. And do you really believe that children are only endangered by the lustful? They are far more likely, really, to fall to the example of the deceitful (no one will know, everyone does it), the malicious (do you know what I heard about her), the slothful, the proud… well, you get the picture. The sins called the “deadly sins” are extremely catching, and they aren’t called “deadly” for nothing. In fact, the ones we have grown accustomed to, the ones that don’t shock us, are the most insidious of all.
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sweetchuck
Guest
While your final point is correct, you are taking out of context that scriptural passage. Jesus was speaking of the final judgment and the eternal wedding feast. The lesson to be learned is that in this life if we are not prepared, we may run out of time and may bring ourselves to condemnation. I recall Jesus’ interactions with the Samaritan woman at the well, the tax collector, the centurion and a host of others who were not so well-thought-of in that society as an illustration of how we should reach out to gays. They are beloved by Christ and they are alive because he believes in their ability to repent and give him glory. We must seize upon the opportunity to witness to them by living our lives faithfully, and by lovingly condemning their sinful actions.
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Steve_Andersen
Guest
how do you know ther aren’t masochists and sadists around your children now?
that is usually something that people do in the privacy of their homes
who knows? I normally don’t ask people those kinds of questions
IIRC most of the abuses took place decades ago
not in “todays world”
and the incidence was lower than in the general population (which is, thankfully, a small number too)
I don’t see the connection that someone who is a “sexual sinner” is automatically a danger to childern
this preoccupation that some people have with the personal practices of others is…disturbing.
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