Should active homosexuals be allowed to volunteer or work at Catholic Schools?

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Kevin Walker:
No!

That would be like having the wolf guard the sheep.

Homosexuals are irrational at best, and one might snap and touch your kid out of some psychotic rationalization. Homosexuals are almost incapable of accepting the responsibility for their own actions.

Just remember this rule of thumb, if it weren’t for homosexuality a great deal of psychiatrists would be out of business.
droll :rolleyes:

I think you’re confusing homosexuality and pedophilia

Most people who “touch” kids do it to perform heterosexual acts

To turn away volunteer labor is short sighted at best
There is always work to be done
And you were probably praying for more help anyhow; if someone shows up at your door…who knows Who sent him there

If I remember correctly a prostitute volunteered to wash Jesus’ feet

I thought we were a church that valued works
I thought Christianity was about second chances and redemption and hope

If someone comes to your door to help, to work, to do a good deed and you turn them away and tell them that there is no place for them even if they just want to do menial labor for free… What does that say about us?
 
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Timidity:
Following that logic, we should be more concerned for the children’s safety with heterosexuals volunteers. Afterall, most molesters are “straight”.
People keep saying this like it’s true. Most people who drive cars are heterosexual. Most people who have blue eyes are heterosexual. This is because most people are heterosexual.

Let’s narrow the focus. Most people who sexually assault girls are heterosexual men. Of course, this doesn’t mean that most heterosexual men are rapists.

Most people who sexually assault boys are homosexual men. Of course, this doesn’t mean that all homosexual men are rapists. But, sexual abuse of children raised by homosexual couples is more than 20 times more likely to occur than if those children are raised by a heterosexual couple. More than 85% of those who sexually assault boys self-identify as either homosexual or bisexual.

Then there is this issue: We’re talking specificially about Catholic schools. Every Catholic school in the diocese where I work requires all teachers to sign a contract saying that we will act in conformity with Catholic moral teaching. If we do not, it is grounds for termination.

An active homosexual does not live in conformity with Catholic moral teaching. From day one, such a teacher would be in violation of his or her contract.

This legal point ignores the larger issue: Homosexual activity is always disordered. A teacher who cannot admit and live the truth of this has no business being a Catholic school teacher.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I noticed by post got a dodge. I’m going to post it again. The Catholic school I know REQUIRE parents to perform some sort of work to help out the school. The suggestion here is that the gay guys are being allowed some great favor by being a web master or playground monitor.

My question is, should gay parents be exclused from the obligations other Catholic school parents are expected (or forced) to perform as a condition of enrolling their children?
 
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sweetchuck:
…Look, we, as Catholics, have to recognize the intrinsic dignity of homosexual people. To not employ a homosexual who has vowed to live a chaste life would be extremely unforgiving and discouraging. If they’re practicing homosexuals, they’re not in the right spiritual state to have influence over children. But it would do children good to be around a homosexual person who has given his or her life to Christ through chastity. If these people are shunned, no one will know they exist, and God forbid if your own children are confronted with this temptation, they will have no role model to show them how to live chaste lives. We cannot be people of hatred. We must be forgiving. Chaste homosexuals should not be pushed aside. Practicing homosexuals will lead others into sin. Chaste homosexuals fight a winning battle against it.
It is perfectly fine to employ them in positions where they can’t harm children. We have to err on the side of caution where children are concerned. Children must be protected from people who have mental disorders. Just because a person is living a chaste life, does not mean he does not have a disorder.
 
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katherine2:
I noticed by post got a dodge. I’m going to post it again. The Catholic school I know REQUIRE parents to perform some sort of work to help out the school. The suggestion here is that the gay guys are being allowed some great favor by being a web master or playground monitor.

My question is, should gay parents be exclused from the obligations other Catholic school parents are expected (or forced) to perform as a condition of enrolling their children?
I think it best they be exempt from the required performance condition of enrolling their children. This would be the wisest thing to do. Active homosexuality should never be shown as a valid lifestyles within a Catholic context. This would be too confusing for the children, and that should be our primary concern.

Peace
 
At my (Catholic) high school we had a teacher that was known to be gay. She actually lived in my neighborhood for a time with her “partner”. Basically the school just ignored it, I think they thought it was an invasion of privacy, which, I don’t know, maybe it is. At the same time though I think those teaching at a Catholic school should have the decency to follow Catholic moral teaching. It’s not like the school can fire them for being gay. So, they should be responsible and live chastely. If a chaste homosexual wants to teach in a Catholic school I think that might be a good example to the kids. Just a couple thoughts.
 
This was taken from Catholic Answers "Gay Marriage"

What does the scientific evidence show about homosexuality?


In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its list of diagnostic disorders. In retrospect, this decision appears to have been inspired by political pressure rather than medical evidence.

Homosexuals of both sexes remain fourteen times more likely to attempt suicide than heterosexuals47 and 3½ times more likely to commit suicide successfully.48 Thirty years ago, this propensity toward suicide was attributed to social rejection, but the numbers have remained largely stable since then despite far greater public acceptance than existed in 1973. Study after study shows that male and female homosexuals have much higher rates of interpersonal maladjustment, depression, conduct disorder, childhood abuse (both sexual and violent), domestic violence, alcohol or drug abuse, anxiety, and dependency on psychiatric care than heterosexuals.49 Life expectancy of homosexual men was only forty-eight years before the AIDS virus came on the scene, and it is now down to thirty-eight.50 Only 2 percent of homosexual men live past age sixty-five.51

Male homosexuals are prone to cancer (especially anal cancer, which is almost unheard-of in male heterosexuals) and various sexually transmitted diseases, including urethritis, laryngitis, prostatitis, hepatitis A and B, syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, and genital warts (which are caused by the human papilloma virus, which also causes genital cancers).52 Lesbians are at lower risk for STDs but at high risk for breast cancer.53 Homosexuals of both sexes have high rates of drug abuse, including cocaine, marijuana, LSD and other psychedelics, barbiturates, and amyl nitrate.54

Male homosexuals are particularly prone to develop sexually transmitted diseases, in part because of the high degree of promiscuity displayed by male homosexuals. One study in San Francisco showed that 43 percent of male homosexuals had had more than 500 sexual partners.55 Seventy-nine percent of their sexual partners were strangers. Only 3 percent had had fewer than ten sexual partners.56 The nature of sodomy contributes to the problem among male homosexuals. The rectum is not designed for sex. It is very fragile. Indeed, its fragility and tendency to tear and bleed is one factor making anal sex such an efficient means of transmitting the AIDS and hepatitis viruses.

Lesbians, in contrast, are less promiscuous than male homosexuals but more promiscuous than heterosexual women: One large study found that 42 percent of lesbians had more than ten sexual partners.57 A substantial percentage of them were strangers. Lesbians share male homosexuals’ propensity for drug abuse, psychiatric disorder, and suicide.58

Continued on next post
 
The statistics speak for themselves: If homosexuals of either gender are finding satisfaction, why the search for sex with a disproportionately high number of strangers? In view of the evidence, homosexuals will not succeed at establishing exclusive relationships. Promiscuity is a hard habit for anyone to break, straight or homosexual. Promiscuous heterosexuals often fail to learn fidelity; male homosexuals are far more promiscuous than heterosexual males, and therefore far more likely to fail. Lesbians are more promiscuous than heterosexual women. There is little good data on the stability of lesbian relationships, but it is reasonable to speculate that their higher rates of promiscuity and various deep-seated psychological problems would predispose them to long-term relational instability. Existing evidence supports this speculation.59

The more radical homosexual activists flaunt their promiscuity, using it as a weapon against what they call "bourgeois respectability."60 But even more conservative advocates of gay marriage such as New Republic editor Andrew Sullivan admit that for them, “fidelity” does not mean complete monogamy, but just somewhat restrained promiscuity.61 In other words, they admit that exclusiveness will not happen. And without exclusiveness, their “marriages” will have little meaning.

Sullivan argues that marriage civilizes men, but anthropology would counter that marriage to women civilizes men. Male humans, homosexual or heterosexual, are more interested in random sex with strangers than women are.62 Men need to be civilized, to be taught the joys of committed sex, and that lesson is taught by marriage to women, not by other men who need to learn it themselves. The apparent instability of lesbian relationships suggests that lesbians understand that lesson less well than heterosexual women do. Exclusivity will not happen, and without exclusivity, marriage does not exist.

Without exclusivity, permanent and unconditional relationships will not happen, either. By definition, a relationship that allows for “cruising” will be shallow and mutually exploitative, just as sex with strangers is shallow and mutually exploitative. So far, same-sex marriage is 0 for 3: likely to be neither exclusive nor unconditional nor permanent.
 
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sweetchuck:
at this point, your post stops making sense.

Look, we, as Catholics, have to recognize the intrinsic dignity of homosexual people. To not employ a homosexual who has vowed to live a chaste life would be extremely unforgiving and discouraging. If they’re practicing homosexuals, they’re not in the right spiritual state to have influence over children. But it would do children good to be around a homosexual person who has given his or her life to Christ through chastity. If these people are shunned, no one will know they exist, and God forbid if your own children are confronted with this temptation, they will have no role model to show them how to live chaste lives. We cannot be people of hatred. We must be forgiving. Chaste homosexuals should not be pushed aside. Practicing homosexuals will lead others into sin. Chaste homosexuals fight a winning battle against it.
Homosexuality is not a race, religion, or an ethnic group! Homosexuality is a mental health disorder and emotionally damaged behaviour. Disorder and damaged are the key words, because homosexuality is not a ‘preference’ but a mental affliction.
 
Kevin Walker:
Homosexuality is not a race, religion, or an ethnic group! Homosexuality is a mental health disorder and emotionally damaged behaviour. Disorder and damaged are the key words, because homosexuality is not a ‘preference’ but a mental affliction.
:tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk:

Homosexuals are not pedophiles!!! I can’t believe the amount of bigotry coming forth in this thread!! Homosexuals who live a chaste life are to be embraced by their communities as models of Christian living. Are children to be removed from bipolar, depressed, OCD, narcissistic, agorophobic, neurotic and mentally retarted people as well? Some of these posts are hate-mongering at best. All people are called to live chaste lives, why reject someone who has committed their life to doing so?
 
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sweetchuck:
…Homosexuals are not pedophiles!!! I can’t believe the amount of bigotry coming forth in this thread!! Homosexuals who live a chaste life are to be embraced by their communities as models of Christian living. Are children to be removed from bipolar, depressed, OCD, narcissistic, agorophobic, neurotic and mentally retarted people as well? Some of these posts are hate-mongering at best. All people are called to live chaste lives, why reject someone who has committed their life to doing so?
If it comes down to a choice between sensitivity to people with SSA and protecting innocent children, I’m going with the latter. That’s not bigotry. That’s prudence.
 
Illinois, being the “progressive” state it is, just passed a new law. Homosexuals can not be denied a job because of their sexual orientation.

catholiccitizens.org/press/pressview.asp?c=22190

If you follow Illinois politics, you know listening to our govenor quote scripture is hard to swallow.

We have a lesbian who is working in our school as a lunchroom aid and is also jr. high girls basketball coach. It makes it hard for our new priest to deal with this now. (We had a very liberal priest who let everyone do what ever.)

She brings her girlfriend to ball games and school functions. They are a very open couple. All the students know the situation. Of course, since she took over as basketball coach, they no longer pray before or after games. She has the full support of the principal.

Hopefully, we will have a new principal next year, but I’m not sure how that will help with the coach. I’m sure she will try to sue if she is not rehired!
What a mess.
 
midwest mom:
Illinois, being the “progressive” state it is, just passed a new law. Homosexuals can not be denied a job because of their sexual orientation.

catholiccitizens.org/press/pressview.asp?c=22190

If you follow Illinois politics, you know listening to our govenor quote scripture is hard to swallow.

We have a lesbian who is working in our school as a lunchroom aid and is also jr. high girls basketball coach. It makes it hard for our new priest to deal with this now. (We had a very liberal priest who let everyone do what ever.)

She brings her girlfriend to ball games and school functions. They are a very open couple. All the students know the situation. Of course, since she took over as basketball coach, they no longer pray before or after games. She has the full support of the principal.

Hopefully, we will have a new principal next year, but I’m not sure how that will help with the coach. I’m sure she will try to sue if she is not rehired!
What a mess.
Dear Midwest Mom,

Is this a Catholic school that we are talking about and if so is this a elementary school or high school?
 
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miguel:
If it comes down to a choice between sensitivity to people with SSA and protecting innocent children, I’m going with the latter. That’s not bigotry. That’s prudence.
I suppose one day when I’m a parent, I might be able to understand the irrational paranoia that is going on here in this thread. As of now, at nearly 25, I cannot. Notice that I have not advocated that practicing homosexuals be employed by Catholic schools. A school should absolutely not employ any self-proclaimed practicing homosexual. But anyone who vows to live a chaste life should not be punished by those who should be supporting them. If they are shunned, that’s just plain cruel. Why should a member of Courage, for instance, be punished when they are living holy lives? Remember what the Catechism teaches: The temptation is not sinful.

Hypothetical: Should priests not be allowed to be around women? Most are biologically attracted to them. Along the lines of the logic used in this thread, no.

The argument being used by many posters here is also the same argument some people are using about EVERY priest, saying that NO priest should ever be around a child. The brand of paranoia and irrationality is one in the same. Certainly a known abuser should not be allowed to be around a child. But so few priests are proven abusers, despite what the media would have you believe. And most of the abuse cases were homosexual in nature with minors, not pedophilia (which is with pre-pubescent children), despite what the media would have you believe. (see: “The New Anti-Catholicism” by Philip Jenkins) But again, we have a problem with practicing homosexuals.

The Catholic Church is not a church of hatred. If a person battles homosexual temptations, but vows to turn his or her life over to Christ and not indulge the temptations, the Church should not stand in the way of that person living out their vocation to chastity. If you want to keep your children away from all homosexuals, virtuous and nonvirtuous, the best option would be homeschooling. But it is irresponsible to ask your Church and your Catholic school to turn its back on a person who has vowed chastity.

Now, if he or she were a person with a history of pedophilia, that person, should not be allowed around children under any circumstances.

But homosexuality ~= pedophilia.

To say to a chaste homosexual, “you have no place here” is to say, “we know that there is no hope for you.” We know that is not the case. In the case of the pedophile, you remove him from the object of his temptation. But for homosexuals, children are not the objects of their temptation. You fear them because you know nothing of them.

I know a number of practicing homosexuals, and they do not seek out children. When they ask me what I feel about homosexuality, I don’t dance around the topic, I say there is Bible-wide condemnation of your lifestyle, because a practicing homosexual cannot lead a chaste life. Nor will God honor or recognize as a covenant any public bond between two gay people. I have told them the government would be ill-advised to let gays adopt children, who will grow up in a household of sexual immorality. But I will also tell them, the intrinsic dignity between you and I are the same. You just struggle with a different temptation than I do. But we have to rise above our temptations so that we do not become slaves to them. Needless to say, my comments have not been well-received.

Now, I have not ever met a chaste homosexual, there are plenty of them out there to be sure, but if I did I would say, “God bless you! It always pleases me to meet others who have chosen to live chaste lives. I shall keep you in my prayers that you may claim victory over your temptations.”
 
The school I was referring to is a Catholic K-8 school. We also have prek-3 and prek-4.
 
I’m convinced. Gay parents shouldn’t have to volunteer in the school, they shouldn’t have to help for the school bazzar, they shouldn’t have to help sell cookies and heck, why even make them pay tuition. Let the kids go free; they have enough troubles.
 
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katherine2:
I’m convinced. Gay parents shouldn’t have to volunteer in the school, they shouldn’t have to help for the school bazzar, they shouldn’t have to help sell cookies and heck, why even make them pay tuition. Let the kids go free; they have enough troubles.
You asked a question regarding actively gay parents volunteering in a Catholic school. And I responded as such,

I think it best they be exempt from the required performance condition of enrolling their children. This would be the wisest thing to do. Active homosexuality should never be shown as a valid lifestyles within a Catholic context. This would be too confusing for the children, and that should be our primary concern.

Our primary concern should be the children and their proper understanding of Catholic teaching. This should not be done just by teaching with words but actions as well. This is a hot political issue and should be handled with the greatest of care. Prudence is always the best option.

Peace
 
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sweetchuck:
The Catholic Church is not a church of hatred. If a person battles homosexual temptations, but vows to turn his or her life over to Christ and not indulge the temptations, the Church should not stand in the way of that person living out their vocation to chastity. If you want to keep your children away from all homosexuals, virtuous and nonvirtuous, the best option would be homeschooling. But it is irresponsible to ask your Church and your Catholic school to turn its back on a person who has vowed chastity.

To say to a chaste homosexual, “you have no place here” is to say, “we know that there is no hope for you.” We know that is not the case. In the case of the pedophile, you remove him from the object of his temptation. But for homosexuals, children are not the objects of their temptation. You fear them because you know nothing of them.

Now, I have not ever met a chaste homosexual, there are plenty of them out there to be sure, but if I did I would say, “God bless you! It always pleases me to meet others who have chosen to live chaste lives. I shall keep you in my prayers that you may claim victory over your temptations.”
Look I think the issue here is that the question is somewhat self contradictory. IOW should ACTIVE homosexuals be allowed to volunteer…There really were no applicable answers about CHASTE homosexuals. Quite honestly we’d be putting our heads in the sand if we think there are not homosexual priests in many parishes. But if they have led chaste lives, that they have an attraction to men is as you said not the sin.

I don’t see all of the hatred and venom you apparently see. I do see concerned adults who HAVE experienced open, avowed, practicing and darned proud homosexuals who as the one poster noted bring their partner to school events and clearly are sexually active. That I’d agree with is inappropriate for a Catholic school. Frankly if the homosexual IS chaste, then the school officials and other parents wouldn’t even know his/her inclinations. So it wouldn’t be an issue. The issue is the activist homosexual who wants to infiltrate various organizations to promote the cause.

As to volunteering, if someone is an active homosexual and not willing to keep their sex life private, well there are certainly places they could volunteer and not encounter the kids. That would seem like a reasonable approach to the issue.

Lisa N
 
midwest mom:
The school I was referring to is a Catholic K-8 school. We also have prek-3 and prek-4.
midwest mom:
We have a lesbian who is working in our school as a lunchroom aid and is also jr. high girls basketball coach. It makes it hard for our new priest to deal with this now. (We had a very liberal priest who let everyone do what ever.)

She brings her girlfriend to ball games and school functions. They are a very open couple. All the students know the situation. Of course, since she took over as basketball coach, they no longer pray before or after games. She has the full support of the principal.
Dear Midwest mom,

I think you should consider taking this complaint/concern to your Bishop (hopefully you have a better bishop than the one we have in our diocese, who condones these kinds of things). This lady is a paid employee and if she is now coaching the girls basketball team then I 'm sure she’s a role model to most of those girls. If you don’t get any help from your diocese contact the organization below, they have experience with these situations and they are in your state.

www.rcf.org

rcf.org/images/rcf.gif

Stephen G. Brady, RCF President**sbrady@rcf.org**

Roman Catholic Faithful
Post Office Box 109
Petersburg, IL 62675

217-632-7054
 
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katherine2:
I’m convinced. Gay parents shouldn’t have to volunteer in the school, they shouldn’t have to help for the school bazzar, they shouldn’t have to help sell cookies and heck, why even make them pay tuition. Let the kids go free; they have enough troubles.
Katherine,

Why do you think active homosexuals should be allowed to volunteer at a Catholic schools. Wouldn’t this be confusing children regarding Catholic moral teaching about homosexuality?

Peace
 
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