Should broke people receive health care?

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goofyjim said:
I think it is deplorable to play politics possibly with people’s lives. Everyone should get health care regardless of the ability to pay. Otherwise some might die because of the political correctness of the fiscally conservative.
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There are countries that provide health care for all and many more people die waiting for transplants, necessary surgery, etc. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
 
mary_bobo said:
There are countries that provide health care for all and many more people die waiting for transplants, necessary surgery, etc. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
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Do you have anything to back that up that isn’t from the Fraser or Cato Institute?
 
I am not asking for socialized medicine. But in a nation as fortunate as ours there should be noone who has to be sick unto death going without healthcare. I see only the proposals here for either/or instead of a blended system.
 
mary_bobo said:
There are countries that provide health care for all and many more people die waiting for transplants, necessary surgery, etc. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
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And in case you didn’t notice it just happened here in this country despite the fact that we have a free enterprise system. So much for the benefits there.:rolleyes:
 
goofyjim said:
And in case you didn’t notice it just happened here in this country despite the fact that we have a free enterprise system. So much for the benefits there.:rolleyes:
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mary did respond in a thread on this forum that was about how someone died when they didn’t receive a liver transplant.
 
ribozyme said:
mary did respond in a thread on this forum that was about how someone died when they didn’t receive a liver transplant.
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People die without transplants in socialist countries, too.

Some years ago, Walter Williams (an economist at James Mason University) was guest hosting a radio show. He had set up calls to officials in various countries to ask about their medical programs. To the English official, he asked, “Is it true that people over 55 can’t get kidney dyalisis in England?”

The official hemmed and hawed and finally allowed that, yes, it was true.

Williams then asked, “What do you tell a person over 55, then? Do you tell him the government has decided to let him die as a cost avoidance measure?”

The official was shocked. “Oh, no! We would never tell him that! We tell him, ‘Medical science holds no hope for you.’”:eek:

Wow! They nhot only let him die as a cost avoidance measure, they lie to him so he will not seek treatment elsewhere!:eek:
 
mary_bobo said:
There are countries that provide health care for all and many more people die waiting for transplants, necessary surgery, etc. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
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The only ones who die are those who go off the waiting list, and try to get American health care, instead, and then can’t afford it, get kicked out of the United States for not having enough money, and then try to get back on the waiting list, again.

The waiting lists are not actually all that long, but if you bop on and bop off all the time, you’ll never get to the front of the line.

I have personal experience with this, with my father’s kidney transplant - he has lived (so far) an additional five years longer than he should have, and without losing his home, or being in any other kind of debt. 🙂
 
jmcrae said:
The only ones who die are those who go off the waiting list, and try to get American health care, instead, and then can’t afford it, get kicked out of the United States for not having enough money, and then try to get back on the waiting list, again.
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And this happened to you, did it?😛
 
jmcrae said:
No, it happened to the guy who was on the list in front of my Dad. He’s dead, now. He would have lived if he hadn’t decided to try for American health care, instead.
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Okay. Explain this to me – is a person required to notify the Canadian government if they go to the US for health care?

If not, just how did this guy drop off the waiting list?

Or is it just a case of him trying to get care in the US – and lacking the money because of the exhorbitant taxes he had to pay – and still not making it on the Canadian list?
 
vern_humphrey said:
Okay. Explain this to me – is a person required to notify the Canadian government if they go to the US for health care?
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He has to notify his doctor (primary care-giver), who then takes him off the list for a Canadian transplant. You can’t be on two lists at the same time, as you can well appreciate; .
Or is it just a case of him trying to get care in the US – and lacking the money because of the exhorbitant taxes he had to pay – and still not making it on the Canadian list?
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He lacked something like half a million dollars - even if he worked his whole life tax-free, I doubt he would have had the money. I think he thought he could make payments over time, but they wanted the cash in advance, due to him not being an American citizen.
 
jmcrae said:
He has to notify his doctor (primary care-giver), who then takes him off the list for a Canadian transplant. You can’t be on two lists at the same time, as you can well appreciate; .
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What “two lists?” We don’t have such lists in the United States.

What’s wrong with making the arrangements, being sure you can pay for it, and then telling the Canadians, “Thanks, but no thanks?”
jmcrae said:
He lacked something like half a million dollars - even if he worked his whole life tax-free, I doubt he would have had the money.
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Many people here on this forum have become quite affluent, even though never making a lot of money – you just deny yourself a bit, save a bit, and invest it steadily.
jmcrae said:
I think he thought he could make payments over time, but they wanted the cash in advance, due to him not being an American citizen.
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Ah, so it’s** our** fault a Canadian lost faith in your system and dropped off your list before finding out he didn’t have enough in his bank account?
 
vern_humphrey said:
What “two lists?” We don’t have such lists in the United States.

What’s wrong with making the arrangements, being sure you can pay for it, and then telling the Canadians, “Thanks, but no thanks?”

Many people here on this forum have become quite affluent, even though never making a lot of money – you just deny yourself a bit, save a bit, and invest it steadily.

Ah, so it’s** our** fault a Canadian lost faith in your system and dropped off your list before finding out he didn’t have enough in his bank account?
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No, it’s his own fault. (Not the Canadian system’s fault. And yes, you have waiting lists for organ transplants. Unless you are harvesting organs from the living?)

He should have decided what he was doing, and stuck with it, instead of changing his mind half way through. He (or his relatives) can’t blame the Canadian system.
 
jmcrae said:
No, it’s his own fault. (Not the Canadian system’s fault. And yes, you have waiting lists for organ transplants. Unless you are harvesting organs from the living?)
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And he had to apply first, and work out financing later?
jmcrae said:
He should have decided what he was doing, and stuck with it, instead of changing his mind half way through. He (or his relatives) can’t blame the Canadian system.
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So since we agree it isn’t the United States’ fault, what relevance does this have to the discussion?
 
vern_humphrey said:
And he had to apply first, and work out financing later?

So since we agree it isn’t the United States’ fault, what relevance does this have to the discussion?
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If I may…the point the gentleman is making is not that it’s the United States’ fault, but that the Canadian system works well. I have had some Canadian friends who were all quite satisfied with it.

That being said, I don’t know that what works in Canada would work in the US. But the next administration must do something; I think we’re all tired of what has become the status quo here. I like what some of the republicans have to say. Let’s see if they deliver.
 
ribozyme said:
Do you have anything to back that up that isn’t from the Fraser or Cato Institute?
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I don’t usually make unsubstantiated claims. My husband was president of a Canadian Company with two employees, in different parts of the country, who died waiting for bypass surgery. I, myself, nearly died when we lived in Canada and the circumstances would never have happened in the States. I know this because I have been to medical school and if I had not had some medical knowledge, I would not have survived. IMO, it works well when someone is not too sick. Otherwise, perhaps your experience is different that mine, but I base my opinion on personal experience.
 
Everyone gets so smug in their having health care while someone may not. For example, take the mentally ill. It often strikes before they can ever get their first job. Therefore they have this stupid philosophy in this nation that preexisting conditions aren’t covered. Well then the government must provide or else a person forever goes bankrupt unable to save a medical account paying out for a previous condition first. Think about it folks. Again I am not suggesting socialized medicine but something must be done to ensure that noone goes without healthcare. Isn’t this included in being prolife?
 
goofyjim said:
Everyone gets so smug in their having health care while someone may not. For example, take the mentally ill. It often strikes before they can ever get their first job. Therefore they have this stupid philosophy in this nation that preexisting conditions aren’t covered. Well then the government must provide or else a person forever goes bankrupt unable to save a medical account paying out for a previous condition first. Think about it folks. Again I am not suggesting socialized medicine but something must be done to ensure that noone goes without healthcare. Isn’t this included in being prolife?
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I should apologize for the certain remarks I made against you in other threads, but I do like your pro-life position.
 
I don’t know that there is an easy answer to the health care dilemma. What irritates me the most is those who use the ER for non emergencies…colds, sore throats etc.

Kathy
 
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