Should broke people receive health care?

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Often the only way you can get some health insurance co.s to pay for anything, unfortunately. One of my friends had a minor out-patient operation outside the hospital network area (because it could not wait) and it wasn’t covered. It cost him some six hundred, I think. THe agent told him next time, go to the emergecy room, because that’s gauranteed. Crazy. The system as it stands is just plain insane.
 
Often the only way you can get some health insurance co.s to pay for anything, unfortunately. One of my friends had a minor out-patient operation outside the hospital network area (because it could not wait) and it wasn’t covered. It cost him some six hundred, I think. THe agent told him next time, go to the emergecy room, because that’s gauranteed. Crazy. The system as it stands is just plain insane.
Just imagine if the whole nation was under one big network. Either the procedure would be covered or it wouldn’t. It could always be rationed so you’ll have to wait. There is a handful of ways to shift the system around, but the given situation is that too few dollars are chasing too many interventions. If you increase the number of dollars you going to take that out of other important areas, such as education, security, food and shelter. If you cut down on the number of interventions you’re going to have a lot of people upset by not getting what they want or need in the way of medical care.

The rules may seem strange, but the insurance companies work out deals with the network. Those hospitals may be making either a profit, breaking even, or losing money. The hospital is going to have to balance out their cash cows with their financial dogs, otherwise go under. They also have to balance out their budget given the payers and those who won’t be able to pay. The insurance companies also have to maintain solvency. It’s not like they are not getting pressure to keep their cost of policies down while at the same time trying to manage the high inflation rate of medical care.

The main way the insurance companies and hospitals can work together is through contracts where these deals though huge deals. That may mean the hospitals are losing huge amounts of money in one area, while another they recoup some money.

If you just replace the insurance companies with the government or a mandate that all insurance companies will have to pick up everyone you still have to deal with the same problems of too few dollars chasing too many goods and services. I am sure there are some great visionaries and creative people who may be able to extract some efficiencies, but when you make that jump from the theoretical world into the actual applied world, I don’t see that being too significant. People in theory often overestimate what will happen when applied, that or they just jam up the system even more and make it worse.

My opinion in general is splice it up any way you want, your still left with problems. I’m guessing if you got the money there is always India. (Oh, I’m sure I may have gotten some of the specifics on the way it works a bit wrong in the post, so please correct, but I’m pretty sure you’ll be left with the same concepts and constraints.)
 
If I may…the point the gentleman is making is not that it’s the United States’ fault, but that the Canadian system works well. I have had some Canadian friends who were all quite satisfied with it.
Let me get this straight. He gives us an anecdote of a man who was so discouraged by the Canadian system that he went to the US to pay for treatment out of his own pocket, found he didn’t have enough money, got shoved back on the Canadian list and died without treatment. And that shows the Canadian system works well?
That being said, I don’t know that what works in Canada would work in the US. But the next administration must do something; I think we’re all tired of what has become the status quo here. I like what some of the republicans have to say. Let’s see if they deliver.
How can we be sure that whatever the government comes up with will work better than what we have here? As P.J. O’Roark said, “If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s free.”

Or as the media pointed out when Bill Clinton had heart surgery – if we had been under the Canadian system, he would have died on the waiting list – if he had been an “ordinary” citizen.
 
What “two lists?” We don’t have such lists in the United States.
We most certaintly DO have waiting lists, especially for transplants. Organs that match you as well as is possible do not just fall out of the sky on a regular basis. They’re also only good for a few days after death, so you have to be lucky and have someone die young and cleanly close by the hospital you’re at to actually get the organ. You are put on a list. My mother is on tons of lists.

Anyone who gets leukemia goes on lists for bone marrow transplants. Anyone who needs heart/liver/lung transplants will go on lists. We have TONS of lists. If you need an MRI, you go on a list. It took me FOUR MONTHS to get an MRI in the united states after it was worried that I had a BRAIN TUMOR.

Don’t think we don’t have lists, that is simply misinformation. If you haven’t encountered a list yet you are very lucky!
 
If you need an MRI, you go on a list. It took me FOUR MONTHS to get an MRI in the united states after it was worried that I had a BRAIN TUMOR.

Don’t think we don’t have lists, that is simply misinformation. If you haven’t encountered a list yet you are very lucky!
WOW…4 months to get an MRI:eek:
I live in the tri-state area, never had to wait more than 1-2 days for an MRI/CAT/PEP etc.
 
WOW…4 months to get an MRI:eek:
I live in the tri-state area, never had to wait more than 1-2 days for an MRI/CAT/PEP etc.
Yup, twice it had to be rescheduled because whenever I arrived there was a car crash victim and they, obviously, took precedence. I was a ‘non-critical’ case, so I was always on the back-burner. I basically showed up at the MRI about once a week at 5am in the morning, and finally it was free sometime four months later for me.

Also, my mother’s insurance company very regularly denies her coverage for her CANCER treatments, deeming them ‘experimental’ which is funny since cancer can’t be cured EVERYTHING is experimental. Luckily my family has a very rich uncle who will cover her expenses.
 
Yup, twice it had to be rescheduled because whenever I arrived there was a car crash victim and they, obviously, took precedence. I was a ‘non-critical’ case, so I was always on the back-burner. I basically showed up at the MRI about once a week at 5am in the morning, and finally it was free sometime four months later for me.

Also, my mother’s insurance company very regularly denies her coverage for her CANCER treatments, deeming them ‘experimental’ which is funny since cancer can’t be cured EVERYTHING is experimental. Luckily my family has a very rich uncle who will cover her expenses.
I am curious, what is her cancer and what is the recommended therapy?

Is it an off-label use for a drug, or a drug in clinical trials? I remember recently that the FDA didn’t approve using bevacizumab in advanced breast cancer patients although it prolonged progression free survival. However, it had several side effectsa and it didn’t increase an important endpoint; overall survival.
 
Yup, twice it had to be rescheduled because whenever I arrived there was a car crash victim and they, obviously, took precedence. I was a ‘non-critical’ case, so I was always on the back-burner. I basically showed up at the MRI about once a week at 5am in the morning, and finally it was free sometime four months later for me.
Is this the only MRI in your area? They couldn’t take you after the car accident victim?
Also, my mother’s insurance company very regularly denies her coverage for her CANCER treatments, deeming them ‘experimental’ which is funny since cancer can’t be cured EVERYTHING is experimental. Luckily my family has a very rich uncle who will cover her expenses.
Does she appeal the denials? And in regards to cancer care, not everything is considered experimental. Radiation, chemo, bone marrow transplant, etc. are not experimental while alternative things (supplements, some drugs that are used to treat a certain cancer when used to treat another type of cancer etc.) under most policies are experimental.
 
I am curious, what is her cancer and what is the recommended therapy?
.
Mom has ovarian cancer. It’s always caught at late stages, and she’s taken every single chemotherapy that is approved for ovarian cancer. None of those worked, we’ve had to since start using things that are not approved for it, thus the fight with the insurance company.
Is this the only MRI in your area? They couldn’t take you after the car accident victim?

Does she appeal the denials? And in regards to cancer care, not everything is considered experimental. Radiation, chemo, bone marrow transplant, etc. are not experimental while alternative things (supplements, some drugs that are used to treat a certain cancer when used to treat another type of cancer etc.) under most policies are experimental.
No, there were other scheduled people who were considered more ‘time-critical’. It was the only one I could get to, because at the time I was jobless, homeless and without a car (The MRI is another one of those big bills incidentally). I had to use the bus system, so I was also limited in times when I could get there.

As for mom, the family has a lawyer on retainer. My family is well off in general, and uses him to force through some of the treatments. Without the lawyer and my uncle’s money she would no longer be with us.
 
As for mom, the family has a lawyer on retainer. My family is well off in general, and uses him to force through some of the treatments. Without the lawyer and my uncle’s money she would no longer be with us.
What is the pharmaceutical called? If you do not know, is it a small molecule or a monoclonial antibody?
 
What is the pharmaceutical called? If you do not know, is it a small molecule or a monoclonial antibody?
Not a clue, I don’t have much information from home outside of mom’s health. I am disowned from my family, my mother is my only contact and that is because of her cancer. They decided it was okay for me to see her now and then since she is dying.

I could ask her next time I see her, I just know it is chemotherapies that they are denying her. The latest that was denied was Taxotere. Thankfully there was another version Taxol, that they accepted and it seems to be doing okay. I’m a business student, not a medical student, so I’m probably misspelling there.
 
Not a clue, I don’t have much information from home outside of mom’s health. I am disowned from my family, my mother is my only contact and that is because of her cancer. They decided it was okay for me to see her now and then since she is dying.

I could ask her next time I see her, I just know it is chemotherapies that they are denying her. The latest that was denied was Taxotere. Thankfully there was another version Taxol, that they accepted and it seems to be doing okay. I’m a business student, not a medical student, so I’m probably misspelling there.
I prefer docetaxel because I like socialism and I do not like private property. 😊

Taxol is a generic. I do not know whether if it is effacious in ovarian cancer (never checked).
 
I prefer docetaxel because I like socialism and I do not like private property. 😊

Taxol is a generic. I do not know whether if it is effacious in ovarian cancer (never checked).
It works for her, her CA125 count is dropping rapidly and her hemoglobin count is recovering finally, for the first time in about a year. The doctor really wanted taxotere, but it seems this is working well enough. This situation has happened several times before and either the lawyer of my uncle stepped in to fix the matter.
 
Let me get this straight. He gives us an anecdote of a man who was so discouraged by the Canadian system that he went to the US to pay for treatment out of his own pocket, found he didn’t have enough money, got shoved back on the Canadian list and died without treatment. And that shows the Canadian system works well?
We don’t know why he tried to go to the States - he’s not around to ask. I suppose he may have been trying to queue-jump, and obviously, if so, then he miscalculated his jump.

If he’d stayed on the Canadian system, he’d still be alive today, and he’d be living in his own home, driving his own car, and sending his kids to University, with his retirement savings intact.

I don’t know why that bothers you so much. Obviously, in your case, you will never be forced to accept any kind of help from anybody - if anyone you love gets sick, you will be paying it out of your own savings account - nobody will ever be able to call you a charity case or a socialist, and that’s your goal, so why worry about what everyone else is doing? 🤷
 
We don’t know why he tried to go to the States - he’s not around to ask. I suppose he may have been trying to queue-jump, and obviously, if so, then he miscalculated his jump.
Was he Canadian?

Is he dead?

Did he die because he didn’t get treatment in time?

I rest my case.
If he’d stayed on the Canadian system, he’d still be alive today, and he’d be living in his own home, driving his own car, and sending his kids to University, with his retirement savings intact.
Except that your system punished him for going outside the system. Did he get a trial before they imposed the death penalty?
I don’t know why that bothers you so much. Obviously, in your case, you will never be forced to accept any kind of help from anybody - if anyone you love gets sick, you will be paying it out of your own savings account - nobody will ever be able to call you a charity case or a socialist, and that’s your goal, so why worry about what everyone else is doing? 🤷
I’m an American, and I have a duty to my fellow citizens not to allow them to be led down the garden path.
 
Was he Canadian?

Is he dead?

Did he die because he didn’t get treatment in time?
What were they supposed to do, stop him at the border and drag him back kicking and screaming? 🤷
Except that your system punished him for going outside the system. Did he get a trial before they imposed the death penalty?
He left the system, of his own accord.

My father, by contrast, stuck with the system, and is alive and well today, without any debts, and without any worries. 👍
 
What were they supposed to do, stop him at the border and drag him back kicking and screaming? 🤷
No, just not sentence him to death by pushing him back on the list.
He left the system, of his own accord.
And that carries the death penalty without trial under the Canadian system?
My father, by contrast, stuck with the system, and is alive and well today, without any debts, and without any worries. 👍
Lucky for him he didn’t inadvertantly break any rules!😉
 
Sometimes I think society spends way too much on heroics. Doesn’t matter whether it’s insurance or the government, we all pitch in and a lot of time it’s a waste of money, for instance keeping people alive an extra two weeks in an ICU. Sometimes babies too small are saved as well. There should be limits set otherwise we will go broke.
About heroics …

let me mention a baby who was in my care for almost three years. She is no longer in my care because she has made a monumental adjustment to preschool and is thriving. She weighed 1 lb 1 oz at birth and it was heroics that kept her alive. Her twin sister died five weeks after their premature birth. The surviving baby, Alexandra, has no deficits whatsoever. She is a pure delight to her parents and grandparents and she has been so to me as well. Was she worth every penny of expense. Yes. Did her parents “pay for her care” down to the last penny? Yes, they did becuase they had sufficient medical insurance. Would I hope for the same outcome for all such at-risk newborns? Yes. Do I feel disgruntled that some of them receive care at “my” expense? Nope. I lived and I learned.
 
I don’t know that there is an easy answer to the health care dilemma. What irritates me the most is those who use the ER for non emergencies…colds, sore throats etc.

Kathy
A friend of mine does this because she and her husband are uninsured. They owe the doctor money so the office won’t see them anymore without cash up front. So, when they have symptoms where they may have an infection & be in need of antibiotics, or have minor injuries, they go to the ER. Otherwise, they’d go untreated.
 
No, just not sentence him to death by pushing him back on the list.
Ahead of people who didn’t leave? 🤷 (Should my Dad have waited around to see whether he wanted the kidney, before taking it? Or just take him at his word, that the American system is so much better, who needs you?)
Lucky for him he didn’t inadvertantly break any rules! 😉
Or on purpose, either!! 🙂
 
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