Should "Cafeteria Catholics" just become Protestant?

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Yes but not sure we know just because of claims.
Oh No. I am sure. To have the ONE TRUE CHURCH that Christ started is has to have all of the 7 Sacraments.

If you have all of the 7 Sacraments established by Christ in your Church you are indeed a part of the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH that was started by Christ.

If they are missing, you can be sure you are not in that Church.
 
So many thoughts on this!

Firstly, I would advise this person not to use the words “you face hell”. No one knows if one’s face will turn in eternity to hell.

Secondly, if you’re a parent you might understand this analogy: I have different rules for different children. My oldest may be allowed to drive at 16, but my next may not be allowed to drive until 18. Do you deny me that right to discern for each of my children what age they can drive?

Are you a sports fan? Have you seen the “detailed rules” on infield flies?

I think if sports warrant a rule book thicker than our Bible, then it’s not too much to understand that religion, given our wayward species, requires at least as many.

I thought Jesus told his disciples to obey them?

[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 13:17[/BIBLEDRB]
Thank you PR for the advice you give them. No I’m not a parent. Yes I am a sports fan depending on the sport. I understand though your point. However Jesus told us what would bring eternal life. He said we could obtain eternal life by believing in Him. We can also see in Matt 25:31-46 words of Jesus about the righteous obtaining eternal life. Jesus also talks about yokes and light burdens. And how all are equal and have only one teacher and one father in heaven.
 
Yes I know, Pat, teaching separates the human man from the office. I also know some Protestants might teach God could have chosen whatever purpose He wanted for the Church. Including at the time formulating Scripture.
You know Matt I read all your posts and finally realized I have no idea what is you believe. Then it struck me -you don’t either
 
Well I’ll grant if someone believes their beliefs are the only possible correct ones, that I guess they might then end up thinking they know for certain the beliefs of everyone else are wrong.
This is a basic principle of logic: to believe x is to condemn non-x as false. If you don’t believe non-x is false, then you don’t really believe x is true.

If you really don’t believe that God is love, then you’re going to be ok with someone professing that God is hate (ala Fred Phelps).

If you really don’t believe that Jesus is God, then you’re going to be ok with someon professing that Jesus is simply a good teacher (a la Unitarians).
 
Yes I know, Pat, teaching separates the human man from the office. I also know some Protestants might teach God could have chosen whatever purpose He wanted for the Church. Including at the time formulating Scripture.
Yes. God used humans. *Catholic *humans.

And if you believe that “we walk by faith”, as the Scriptures state, it was these Catholic humans who discerned that this was true.

If you think they erred in this, then you ought not be proclaiming it so often. 😉
 
My name is not Pat. And while we are friends, and you did share your name with me, (and I my Personal Photo Albums with you) I don’t believe I reciprocated with my name.

This is Pat. 😛
Sorry. My mind or eyesight must have played tricks on me because I would have certainly professed I had previously seen the name Pat somewhere at the end of someone’s posts. But maybe not or I am confusing you with another poster. But thanks because now you shall never be known for certain as Pat to me again! 😃
 
I have read this statement of yours several times, and I have to tell you, it makes no sense to me at all. A person should not apologize if they are not responsible. You are not responsible for anyone else’s misundersanding.

If the other person does not understand because you have not communicated well, then the thing to do is communicate more effectively, or apologize that you have not communicated well.

You are not responsible for my inablity to understand, so don’t apologize.

Thank you for the feedback. Please bring it to my attention if I am confusing in the future.

Yes, the Church said the same about all the first Protestants, who were bapitzed Catholics in rebellion against the Church teachings.

I fail to see how someone can be light and salt to the world while living a lie. If someone claims to be Catholic, then they are claiming they accept all the the Church believes and teaches. If they claim they are Catholic, yet reject Catholicism, it seems disingenous.
Ok apology withdrawn.

You are welcome.

Perhaps since the Catholic Church claims them, they claim to be. But I know you have a problem Guan with the Church claiming however many number of Catholics they claim worldwide. But I guess that’s something you would have to take up with someone other than me.

Thank you for your prayers. We can pray for one another.
 
Sorry. My mind or eyesight must have played tricks on me because I would have certainly professed I had previously seen the name Pat somewhere at the end of someone’s posts. But maybe not or I am confusing you with another poster. But thanks because now you shall never be known for certain as Pat to me again! 😃
Click here for my response.
 
My friend seeks the truth as we all are on our faith walks. No it’s not because ECFs cast doubt on what she wants to believe. She searches Scripture in her discernment of trying to determine what it is she is to believe.

Not exactly correct Tantum. Christians don’t believe the EXACT same things. Just plugging along on their faith walk without sight. Striving to follow their consciences. Where within those consciences is their “most secret core”. Where they are “alone with God whose voice echoes”. (CCC1776) Striving to “always obey” their conscience so as not “to act against it” and “condemn” themselves. (CCC 1790) Exercising their “right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions”. (CCC 1782)

So united in a belief in Him, all just striving to do their best to reach and know the truth, Tantum.
But Matt, if your conscience says that doing X is right, but someone else’s conscience says doing X is wrong, are you going to tell me that there is no such thing as ‘right or wrong’?

Isn’t it correct that a person (without malice) may be WRONG even though his conscience says it is ‘true’?

If Christ is Truth, Matt (and we believe He is), He would not permit there to be one truth for you, Matt, and another for me, Tantum, depending on what our ‘conscience’ decides. No, Truth is Truth. If one conscience sees Truth as Truth, that conscience is a correctly formed and ordered conscience which is led by the Holy Spirit. But if another conscience looks on Truth and sees it as falsehood, that conscience is incorrectly formed and disordered, and not led by the Holy Spirit, because Truth does not guide to falsehood, but only to truth.

You seem to feel that "conscience’ is what determines truth or falsehood, and that even if something was not true, if the ‘conscience’ said it was, a person should ‘follow the conscience and not the truth.’ That’s like saying that if Jesus were to walk into the room and ask you to follow Him, and the next minute the Devil, disguising Himself as God, were to walk in and say, “Disregard that first fellow, and follow me, I’m the real Jesus”. . .and your CONSCIENCE were to say, “Dang, I know that first fellow said He was Christ but I FEEL this second guy is really Christ, so I’m going to follow HIM”. . .

that doing so was just as 'good" as another guy who went through the same experience but trusted in the FIRST (the TRUE Jesus), ignored the Devil, and followed Christ.

You’re saying that ‘following the conscience’ is better than actually following the Lord!
 
Matt a cafeteria catholic is usually someone who has never truly learned their faith.

While I do agree with you many Baptise thier Child in the fath, throw them in CCD and thats it.

My Dad lived his faith and never missed Church etc. My brother and my sister hardly go to Church they had 12 years of a Catholic Education. I went for 8 years of Catholic School.

I can put them to shame on what they know of the CC. SO could my Dad. Where is the blame Matt. My Dad never had a Education in the faith at all. Very little Sunday School. He learned it all studying it on his own and by asking the Priest etc.

I learned it from asking him and studying also. Same family Matt. Same Dad same Mom. Don’t you think God would say here is a mirror. What they are lacking is their desire to study and continue to learn. My Dad continue to study and learn until his death of 83.

He said that no matter how much you read the bible God had something else to teach you every single time you read it.

People blame the Church and the faith for their own faults. Always have, always will.

I bet you anything right now if I asked them what was missing in the Protestant Church they would not even know it was the Sacraments. How can the Catholic faith be blamed for this. Same School same teachings.

But I will tell you this, there will be a time they find themself back, and when they do they will see where they were wrong. They will find that they themself were the shortcomming not the teachings of the faith.

But they don’t seem to know enough to not miss church, but they do know the One True Church. I mean if they do make it its the Catholic Church. SO who do we blame here. My Dad and Mom because if you missed Church it was like missing school if you were sick you stayed in bed. Did not go out to play that day thats for sure.

Or do we blame the Church for not teaching them to Keep Holy the Lords Day. Because it was indeed taught to them.

That is what you call a Cafeteria Catholic Matt, People who do not feel the need to put GOd first in thier life. But don’t judge them, because trust me they will tell you to mind your own business and they are better Christians then you. Because when you call them on the truth they will switch it back on you. Cafeteria Catholics are very defensive People Matt. They don’t want you to preach to them. They want to be left alone. They will get to church when they are ready they sure don’t need you to tell them.

I don’t know what they are in most family’s. BUt I know what they are in mine. Very selfish spoiled people who when life did not go well for them they blamed my Parents. ANd my Parents were stupid enough to take blame they never deserved. ANd kept giving and giving and giving. My Parents were Saints.

That Matt is just an example of what they are in my family. Not all Catholic family’s.
Hi Rinnie. I agree with your dad on reading the Bible. That’s one reason why I keep reading it. Always something new to learn. 👍 God bless his soul. I have a variety of Catholics with regard to degree of faithfulness and Catholic ed in my family too. The varying degrees span generations in my family. I don’t blame anyone or anything. It’s faith. People have different faith beliefs. Or faith and beliefs may change as folks walk along their lifelong faith journeys. I consider my mom to have been a saint too btw. If I need an example of Matt 7:1 or living life by the Golden Rule I only need to remember her soul.
 
You know Matt I read all your posts and finally realized I have no idea what is you believe. Then it struck me -you don’t either
Bob, to the degree I might not know for certain on some details, is why it’s called a lifelong journey. 👍
 
This is a basic principle of logic: to believe x is to condemn non-x as false. If you don’t believe non-x is false, then you don’t really believe x is true.

If you really don’t believe that God is love, then you’re going to be ok with someone professing that God is hate (ala Fred Phelps).

If you really don’t believe that Jesus is God, then you’re going to be ok with someon professing that Jesus is simply a good teacher (a la Unitarians).
Perhaps but it’s the condemning part that troubles me.
 
Yes. God used humans. *Catholic *humans.

And if you believe that “we walk by faith”, as the Scriptures state, it was these Catholic humans who discerned that this was true.

If you think they erred in this, then you ought not be proclaiming it so often. 😉
Nah PRmerger, I’m CERTAIN they got that part right! 👍
 
Bob, to the degree I might not know for certain on some details, is why it’s called a lifelong journey. 👍
An unnecessary journey as the truth has already been given to you. And a journey fraught with peril as you depend upon your conscience and your personal interpretation of Scripture to reveal to you your own version of the truth. Catholics do not read Scripture to find the truth, they read it to better understand the truth that has been given to them.

You’re like the Israelites wandering in the desert and complaining about God. I give you the same admonition he gave them:

Today if you hear the voice of the Lord
harden are not your hearts,
as your fathers did in the wilderness

*where at Meribah and Massah *
they challenge me and provoked me
although they had seen all my works
 
Hi Rinnie. I agree with your dad on reading the Bible. That’s one reason why I keep reading it. Always something new to learn. 👍 God bless his soul. I have a variety of Catholics with regard to degree of faithfulness and Catholic ed in my family too. The varying degrees span generations in my family. I don’t blame anyone or anything. It’s faith. People have different faith beliefs. Or faith and beliefs may change as folks walk along their lifelong faith journeys. I consider my mom to have been a saint too btw. If I need an example of Matt 7:1 or living life by the Golden Rule I only need to remember her soul.
But Matt guess what. I can put my Brother and SIster up against anyone in this world with thier faith. I swear to you I can. I know that they believe in God with all of their heart and soul. Abd they believe in the teaching’s of the RCC. THey just don’t practice it.

But see Matt to have faith is so different from faith and works isn’t it. What are they doing with the faith God gave them Matt? What are they doing with the Grace that he gave them? ARe they living it? Is their faith in Christ enough Matt? OR Did God say there were other commandments to follow?
 
My friend seeks the truth as we all are on our faith walks. No it’s not because ECFs cast doubt on what she wants to believe. She searches Scripture in her discernment of trying to determine what it is she is to believe.

Not exactly correct Tantum. Christians don’t believe the EXACT same things. Just plugging along on their faith walk without sight. Striving to follow their consciences. Where within those consciences is their “most secret core”. Where they are “alone with God whose voice echoes”. (CCC1776) Striving to “always obey” their conscience so as not “to act against it” and “condemn” themselves. (CCC 1790) Exercising their “right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions”. (CCC 1782)

So united in a belief in Him, all just striving to do their best to reach and know the truth, Tantum.
Matt, I have discussed with you these sections of the CCC before, you always seem to skip this section. I think I know why. It must be a special gift you have to cherry pick what you want to believe, then completely ignore the rest.

II. THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. **The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings. **
1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. **We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.**55

IV. ERRONEOUS JUDGMENT

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. **Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. **1791 **This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. **

I would say that if you want to use some of the truth to back up your ideas, it must fit all of the truth. If what you believe contradicts what you use to support your view, then you are not being honest with yourself, or anyone for that matter.

Jesus gave us so much and we ignore it for so long. He gave us His Church to lead us and teach us, but if we ignore what She teaches and continue to follow an illformed or unformed concience, as you see
 
Perhaps but it’s the condemning part that troubles me.
Okay so now what Matt. If we can’t condemn sin what are we to do accept it then?

Do we just sit back and let People tell us that the Eucharist is NOT the living bread from heaven like Jesus said it was.

DO we just sit back and say we do not need the living bread from heaven to have eternal life in Christ our faith is enough?

Do we say faith is enough forget about repenting your sins.

Because if we teach as Christ taught us we are worried that we may look like we are comdenning?:confused:

I think I will be like my Dad and let People hate me, blame me for condmening them when I will not accept their sin. I am like Papa. I will take my chances with God. WHen he says to me as Papa told me once did you stick up for me, did you teach my commands. Did you accept sin or did you reject it.

Because as Papa said Matt if you sit and say nothing it is the same as accepting sin. Sometimes you have to be the one to say NO. GOD SAID NO. Sometimes you have to be the hated one.

As Papa said if you are going to hate me. HATE me for the Truth!! God’s truth.
 
But Matt, if your conscience says that doing X is right, but someone else’s conscience says doing X is wrong, are you going to tell me that there is no such thing as ‘right or wrong’?

You’re saying that ‘following the conscience’ is better than actually following the Lord!
No Tantum. I understand it’s possible someone might be wrong in what they discern their conscience to be telling them as they make their lifelong faith walks with Christ in prayer with His Spirit. Someone could be wrong in where they place their faith. The most faithful Catholics place their faith in the Catholic Church to tell them. That’s great if that’s their faith and belief. Others have a different faith and belief. All just trying to live in good conscience.
 
No Tantum. I understand it’s possible someone might be wrong in what they discern their conscience to be telling them as they make their lifelong faith walks with Christ in prayer with His Spirit. Someone could be wrong in where they place their faith. The most faithful Catholics place their faith in the Catholic Church to tell them. That’s great if that’s their faith and belief. Others have a different faith and belief. All just trying to live in good conscience.
Can it only be God in the Holy Spirit who guides your consience? What must we do to form our consience correctly, or is their a “correct” formation in your opinion? Is it possible for your consience to discern something different than mine and both be right?

PS. I am geting intoxicated trying to keep up with all the circles…lol:confused:
 
Catholics do not read Scripture to find the truth, they read it to better understand the truth that has been given to them.

You’re like the Israelites wandering in the desert and complaining about God.
Yes I know at least the most faithful Catholic non-Cafeteria ones do it for that reason. Other Christians might do like the Berians and search to see what is true.

I’m not complaining about God.
 
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