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estesbob
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So you are Universalist?
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CMatt25
Guest
Lapey, about conscience see my response to Tantum if it doesn’t make you more intoxicated.I am geting intoxicated trying to keep up with all the circles…lol
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Lapey
Guest
please respond to my post on the CCC, you skipped some of the CCC that you like to site to back up your circles.
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CMatt25
Guest
As you do what you’re going to do I’m only advocating charity and understanding and remembering that all those things are faith beliefs in which you have. And that others have their faith beliefs.Okay so now what Matt. If we can’t condemn sin what are we to do accept it then?
Do we just sit back and let People tell us that the Eucharist is NOT the living bread from heaven like Jesus said it was.
DO we just sit back and say we do not need the living bread from heaven to have eternal life in Christ our faith is enough?
Do we say faith is enough forget about repenting your sins.
Because if we teach as Christ taught us we are worried that we may look like we are comdenning?
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rinnie
Guest
Let me tell you about my baby brother Matt.
He was 39 and got a brain tumor. He was asked to go to a different Church because this was a wonderful guy and he felt his Church could heal him. He said Okay. He said when he got in there people were rollling around the floor and stuff. But he was not making fun.
He said he was very unconfortable. But he went more out of respect for the kid. He said the next day the kid asked him what he thought about the services. He said I appreciate everything you did for me Man, but I think I need to stick with my Church. The kid said I understand. My brother said but I will always remember what you did and will always appreciate it.
Joey went back to the RCC. He never left but did not go every single Sunday. But he RAN to Church when he was in trouble.
He said Mom I am a hypocrite huh? She said Why. He said I went back but should have gone when I wasn’t sick. SHe said No! God knows why you went back. You were in trouble and went back to the only person who you knew could help you.
He died that following year. He said he was cool with it. He said if God wanted him he could not beat death. Not this death. He said that he was healed but not the way we all through he was. God healed his soul and got him right with the Church. He said Now I will wait for what God says, If GOd wants me he will take me out, or I will live.
The Roman Catholic Priest told me he Prays he can be at the place my Brother was at when he died. My brother said he would never get off the right path again if he lived. And he never did. He is one of the few I can say never got off of the Path again. God took him Home and healed him. And he lives. In Christ he lives.
Our GOd is a very forgiving God, My brother was the lucky one to have the chance to go back to God and get it right. I see now that God was taking him out as my Bro says from th beginning. BUt he gave him the Chance to get it right and my bo took that chance. And thats all God needed to see. He repented, he said every single sin he ever did. He was sorry and said he deserved this cancer and would never ask God why.
Most people say why me God. My Brother said Why NOT me!
He was 39 and got a brain tumor. He was asked to go to a different Church because this was a wonderful guy and he felt his Church could heal him. He said Okay. He said when he got in there people were rollling around the floor and stuff. But he was not making fun.
He said he was very unconfortable. But he went more out of respect for the kid. He said the next day the kid asked him what he thought about the services. He said I appreciate everything you did for me Man, but I think I need to stick with my Church. The kid said I understand. My brother said but I will always remember what you did and will always appreciate it.
Joey went back to the RCC. He never left but did not go every single Sunday. But he RAN to Church when he was in trouble.
He said Mom I am a hypocrite huh? She said Why. He said I went back but should have gone when I wasn’t sick. SHe said No! God knows why you went back. You were in trouble and went back to the only person who you knew could help you.
He died that following year. He said he was cool with it. He said if God wanted him he could not beat death. Not this death. He said that he was healed but not the way we all through he was. God healed his soul and got him right with the Church. He said Now I will wait for what God says, If GOd wants me he will take me out, or I will live.
The Roman Catholic Priest told me he Prays he can be at the place my Brother was at when he died. My brother said he would never get off the right path again if he lived. And he never did. He is one of the few I can say never got off of the Path again. God took him Home and healed him. And he lives. In Christ he lives.
Our GOd is a very forgiving God, My brother was the lucky one to have the chance to go back to God and get it right. I see now that God was taking him out as my Bro says from th beginning. BUt he gave him the Chance to get it right and my bo took that chance. And thats all God needed to see. He repented, he said every single sin he ever did. He was sorry and said he deserved this cancer and would never ask God why.
Most people say why me God. My Brother said Why NOT me!
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CMatt25
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I did respond. I told you to see what I had already written in reply to Tantum so I didn’t have to repeat it. Read the sentence after the 1st period.
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estesbob
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The problem is too many people take the same liberty in interpreting the catechism as they do interpreting Scripture.
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nickybr38
Guest
HAHAHA. Our RCIA group consisted of Adult converts and our RCIA leader actively encouraged us NOT TO READ THE CATECHISM, because it was ‘too complicated to understand’. She instead gave us CHILDREN’S books for formation, and severely dumbed down books that ‘translate the Catechism into easier language’.
Seriously, our parish won’t be encouraging anyone to study the Catechism. Hahahaha. Oh gosh. Sorry, as refreshing as I found your suggestion to actually read the Catechism after the ‘faith formation’ I’ve experienced, it’s also so unrealistic as to be amusing.
How do we effect ANY change when those who are in authority positions think theology is too complicated for the average person? And who consider the Catechism ‘theology’? How do we effect any change in the education of the parish when those in leadership treat their adult parishioners like dumb children?
That said, to the OP: NO. Cafeteria Catholics should be loved and encouraged and held MUCH more tightly then our Faithful brothers and sisters because it is the ‘cafeteria catholics’ who are suffering and who are lost. They are the sheep who are being led away by the false Sheperd and what kind of brothers and sisters would we be if we helped push them along instead of encouraged them back to the True Good Sheperd?
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CMatt25
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As in Unitarian Universalist? No. While I do have appreciation and respect for their non judgmental attiudes towards other faiths and their liberal focus, I personally am way too much of a mainline Christian.
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rinnie
Guest
But what ones come from God. So lets go with my baby Bro for example.
He knows that Christ left us the Church for the forgivness of sins. So he ran to the Church because he knew that was the only place he could have this great Grace from God.
Now are you saying that his faith could have saved him. Or would you say that his faith and his works saved him?
If he felt that God only taught us that faith in God is all that we needed why did he go to the CC and ask for his sins to be forgiven. Would his faith alone not saved him?
You seem to be getting faith and the teachings of CHrist screwed up somewhere.
You seem to believe that truth comes from what we want it to be. Not what the Holy Spirit says it is through the Church.
Again as I have asked I will ask again. Why is there a need for the Church. Could not my brothers faith have saved him then? Are you saying the death on the cross and the Grace that was given to us because of that by the Sacrament of Confession was for nothing? Do you deny this grace?
Why is there a need for a Church then Matt? Why did Jesus tell Peter to build the Church if faith is all we need? WHy the Apostles? Why the bible for that fact. Faith does not come from a Bible. Faith comes from Gods Grace. Why do you feel you have to read that bible at all. Is not your faith enough? Why do you pray at all is not your faith enough?
Why do you go to church Matt? If the Church has no means of Salvation for you why do you go? What is the purpose for this if faith is all you rely on?
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CMatt25
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Rinnie, I will pray for your brother’s soul. Though as the Roman Catholic priest told me when my mother died, and I believe this in faith, she is in a better place. The deacon officiating at her funeral even said during the funeral that she was already in heaven. While I know many here would dispute the deacon, I believe that too in faith. But I believe your dad and brother from the stories you shared are there as well. That is my faith.Let me tell you about my baby brother Matt.
He was 39 and got a brain tumor. He was asked to go to a different Church because this was a wonderful guy and he felt his Church could heal him. He said Okay. He said when he got in there people were rollling around the floor and stuff. But he was not making fun.
He said he was very unconfortable. But he went more out of respect for the kid. He said the next day the kid asked him what he thought about the services. He said I appreciate everything you did for me Man, but I think I need to stick with my Church. The kid said I understand. My brother said but I will always remember what you did and will always appreciate it.
Joey went back to the RCC. He never left but did not go every single Sunday. But he RAN to Church when he was in trouble.
He said Mom I am a hypocrite huh? She said Why. He said I went back but should have gone when I wasn’t sick. SHe said No! God knows why you went back. You were in trouble and went back to the only person who you knew could help you.
He died that following year. He said he was cool with it. He said if God wanted him he could not beat death. Not this death. He said that he was healed but not the way we all through he was. God healed his soul and got him right with the Church. He said Now I will wait for what God says, If GOd wants me he will take me out, or I will live.
The Roman Catholic Priest told me he Prays he can be at the place my Brother was at when he died. My brother said he would never get off the right path again if he lived. And he never did. He is one of the few I can say never got off of the Path again. God took him Home and healed him. And he lives. In Christ he lives.
Our GOd is a very forgiving God, My brother was the lucky one to have the chance to go back to God and get it right. I see now that God was taking him out as my Bro says from th beginning. BUt he gave him the Chance to get it right and my bo took that chance. And thats all God needed to see. He repented, he said every single sin he ever did. He was sorry and said he deserved this cancer and would never ask God why.
Most people say why me God. My Brother said Why NOT me!
Yes many people ask why. It is only human to have doubt and when we see so much suffering in the world to ask why a loving God would allow it. The Apostle Thomas doubted.
Even Christ Himself on the cross cried out My God My God why have you foresaken me!
During the course of my life I’ve had moments of why, as brief as they might have been. I don’t believe I would be human if I did not admit otherwise. But I can truly say my faith in God is stronger now having gone thru my trials. God bless you and all your family in their faith walks and peace.
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nickybr38
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Just as an aside He was quoting Psalm 22, not so much that He was despairing but He was pointing us to Scripture and a fascinating piece of Scripture at that.
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Lapey
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If this is the answer you are talking about, it doesn’t come close to an answer. You disregard much of the CCC and only use what fits your will. You will be held accountable for your lack of action in persueing a properly formed consience.
And please stop calling it “my faith” and “your faith”. If we follow Christ we follow His faith and His Church.
Now please address the other sections of CCC that you skipped.
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Maureen_Brilla
Guest
I’ve been reading CMatt25’s postings with interest in this thread. The word that comes to mind is “relativism”, not loving charity in his motive to allow other Roman Catholics their “faith beliefs”. We have a Pope and a Magisterium who teach us how to form our conscious. If we do not listen to them and abide by the Truths they profess, we can no longer call ourselves followers of the True Faith, but apostates. Pride halts the ability to objectively separate opinion from fact. The facts of the Catholic Faith are found in what we personally feel or think, but in her teachings and traditions, in the traditional exegenic writings on Scripture and Theology, and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Our Apostolic Creed does not read: I believe in God (although not everyone must), the Father Almighty (but He could certainly be a She), maker of heaven and earth (which was truly a massive evolutionary process), and in Jesus Christ His only Son (but we are all His sons and daughters in the same manner), etc.
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Lapey
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PS. The deacon was wrong to cannonize your family member. Only God know’s. The Church only declares someone a saint after much discernment and investigation. There is no way we know for sure, we can believe and speculate, but to preside over a funeral and declare someone in heaven is an injustice to all involved. I’ve heard a deacon say, “we have another saint to pray to.” the deacon didn’t even know the person.
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rinnie
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Hey Maureen, How about I believe in ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH.I’ve been reading CMatt25’s postings with interest in this thread. The word that comes to mind is “relativism”, not loving charity in his motive to allow other Roman Catholics their “faith beliefs”. We have a Pope and a Magisterium who teach us how to form our conscious. If we do not listen to them and abide by the Truths they profess, we can no longer call ourselves followers of the True Faith, but apostates. Pride halts the ability to objectively separate opinion from fact. The facts of the Catholic Faith are found in what we personally feel or think, but in her teachings and traditions, in the traditional exegenic writings on Scripture and Theology, and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Our Apostolic Creed does not read: I believe in God (although not everyone must), the Father Almighty (but He could certainly be a She), maker of heaven and earth (which was truly a massive evolutionary process), and in Jesus Christ His only Son (but we are all His sons and daughters in the same manner), etc.
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Maureen_Brilla
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Absolutely!!!
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CMatt25
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Rinnie, and anyone else
I am about to have dinner and do some other things. But let me quickly reply to this one yet before I go.It does not matter what I say. But what Scripture tells me.
We are told faith without works is dead. We show our faith and love through what we do. But we are also told that by the grace of God we are saved by faith. Not by our works.
Your brother had his faith and belief. He probably read Scripture speaking about the Apostles forgiving sins. Scripture also tells us we are to confess to one another. Or everytime we recite The Lord’s Prayer, we ask forgiveness. And no. I do not believe the grace given from the cross was for nothing.
Rinnie, I read the Bible in faith to learn. Remember how your dad said there is always something for us to still learn in there? I pray to God. We are told to pray for one another.
I go to church to pray and worship with others. Christ said where 2 or are 3 are gathered. To hear the Word. And a good sermon/homily along with good music inspires me. Bad ones honestly not so much.
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praxising
Guest
No Time in Eternity. Unless you think anyone would assume the deceased is in Hell, but that seems so unlikely. Paul was taken up to the “third” Heaven. Maybe the deceased is just in the first. The Purgatory/Heaven transition is irrelevant in terms of human Time. So “already in Heaven” is as sensible as anything.
What I find not very sensible is for a lot of people who profess to be following Christ to get together and think they get to judge who should, or should not, be in His Church.
I’m imagining the day of their own passing when they meet St. Peter, who is making the report to hand to Jesus, Who is in the background playing backgammon with Ghandi. The Faithful CCC Catholic says, “I voted for anti-abortion candidates in every single election!”
St. Peter: “Uh-huh. How many times did you visit the imprisoned?”
Faithful CCC Cath: “Well, there’s no prison in my neighborhood. So, never.”
St Peter looks up, “Not even once?” Jesus turns His head, listening to the answer.
FCCC Cath: “No, but I posted in a forum and tried to explain how people should follow the rules of the Church and we should throw out the heretics!”
Jesus stands and steps up behind St Peter: “You did what?”
Planks, people.
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pnewton
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Without a doubt, there is no reason why someone should leave the Catholic faith over any sin. I wonder reading this thread if we have completely abandoned all understanding of Sacramental Grace. I read a few pages pack a statement about condemning sin. This title, and this discussion, is not about condemning sin. It is about condemning sinners. Most of the condemnations are directed at persons, not the sin or the belief. As we come upon Divine Mercy Sunday, let us recall how boundless is the mercy of God and tend to our own logs.
We have the Sacrament of Reconcilliation for a reason.
We have the Sacrament of Reconcilliation for a reason.
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