Should "Cafeteria Catholics" just become Protestant?

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Radical said:
Good question…you might recall the case of the United Church of Canada where a liberal clergy took a more conservative membership along for the ride down the road to more openess/liberalism. That caused me to wonder as to what degree the leadership should determine the policies for the church (when the vast majority of the church’s membership lies outside of the leadership). In your CC an opposite situation exists in that it seems that a more liberal membership would like the Catholic hierarchy to loosen up. It seems that in Canada (particularly Quebec) that the majority of Catholics do not actually believe that the official teachings of the Catholic Church are w/o error. The Vatican says believe “A” and do “B” and the typical Canadian Catholic believes that he has the option to believe “not-A” and do “not-B”…so who “owns” the Catholic Church? Why should the majority leave? Why shouldn’t the majority stay and resolve to cause the hierarchy to change (starting with an acknowledgement that its official teachings contain error)?

I note that you have young kids…if they aren’t home or private schooled you will likely have a very hard time finding a school where they will not be taught that “gay is OK”. (Let’s not get into that issue/discussion either) IMHO, in Canada that view is being instilled in the next generation and whether you are a conservative Protestant (who believes in inerrant scriptures) or a conservative Catholic (who believes in an infallible magisterium) that view undercuts both conservative positions. That view and other views are chipping away at conservative Christianity …I don’t see how conservative Christianity (that wants to hold to inerrancy/infallibility) avoids a showdown with a more liberal majority…unless the majority leaves (but from the majority’s POV, why should they leave (if they still find value in the religion)?.
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**Anyone choosing to remain Catholic must adhere to the teachings of the Church as stated in the “CCC 2nd Ed”.
The Catholic Church does not vote on what is right and wrong, as is done in some Protestant denominations.
We follow Sacred Scripture, Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium.
We follow the teachings of Jesus, whether of not they are popular, or politically correct today.
That is why the Catholic Church has been in existance for over 2000 years.
**
 
chaunceygardner said:
You have touched on a HUGE problem within the Catholic church: the lack of continuing religious formation. In most places that I have observed, any formal education (and often it isn’t very “formal”) ends by the junior year of high school or sooner, depending on when young people are confirmed.
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I agree whole heartedly with the lack of adult faith formation.

Our priest says that the Catholic Church instructs children and holds social events for adults …but that what is needed is adult faith formation for adults and social events for children.
 
I lived a big chunk of my adult life as a cafeteria Catholic, yet I credit all that “physically present, mentally absent” attendance at weekly Mass as what eventually helped me grow in the faith. To deny people the faith just because they are not at par with the devout crowd is a “holier than thou” attitude that has no place in the Church. The Church’s mandate is to save as many souls as she can. Things cannot be forced. You cannot expect a 15 year old to act like a 30 year old. Spiritual maturity in the faith is important, and if we kick people out just because they’re not there yet, then they will never be there and will never come back.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Some Catholics are not one-issue voters and they realize life is more complicated than one issue…jobs, wars, economics, unions, foreign policy, education, immigration, and so many other things are on the table…just because someone doesn’t vote the hardline conservative voting pattern doesn’t “cafeteriasize” them
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We are not called to be a single issue voter. we are, however told we can not support pro-abortion politicians. None of the issues you mention rise to the level of abortion in the eyes if the Church. I know this will fall on deaf ears in you case as i know you voted for Obama-however lurkers should know that what you are saying is in direct conflict with what the Church teaches,
 
Radical:

From John 6:
66 After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve: “Will you also go away?” 68 And Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 And we have believed and have known that you are the Christ, the Son of God.”

66 Ex hoc multi discipulorum ejus abierunt retro : et jam non cum illo ambulabant. 67 Dixit ergo Jesus ad duodecim : Numquid et vos vultis abire? 68 Respondit ergo ei Simon Petrus : Domine, ad quem ibimus? verba vitæ æternæ habes: 69 et nos credidimus, et cognovimus quia tu es Christus Filius Dei.

From Mark 8:
34 And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

34 Et convocata turba cum discipulis suis, dixit eis : Si quis vult me sequi, deneget semetipsum : et tollat crucem suam, et sequatur me.

In the above passages from the Holy Gospel according to Ss. John and Mark, our Lord Jesus Christ tells us that the way will be hard and that many will walk away from the truth for the world and (God forbid) their own damnation.

As Catholics, we believe that the Church teaches the truth as handed down in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. This is the same Church which was founded in the following passage by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

From Matthew 16:
13 And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? 14 But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. 15 Jesus says to them: But whom do you say that I am? 16 Simon Peter answered and said: You are Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

13 Venit autem Jesus in partes Cæsareæ Philippi : et interrogabat discipulos suos, dicens : Quem dicunt homines esse Filium hominis? 14 At illi dixerunt : Alii Joannem Baptistam, alii autem Eliam, alii vero Jeremiam, aut unum ex prophetis. 15 Dicit illis Jesus : Vos autem, quem me esse dicitis? 16 Respondens Simon Petrus dixit : Tu es Christus, Filius Dei vivi. 17 Respondens autem Jesus, dixit ei : Beatus es Simon Bar Jona : quia caro et sanguis non revelavit tibi, sed Pater meus, qui in cælis est. 18 Et ego dico tibi, quia tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram ædificabo Ecclesiam meam, et portæ inferi non prævalebunt adversus eam. 19 Et tibi dabo claves regni cælorum. Et quodcumque ligaveris super terram, erit ligatum et in cælis : et quodcumque solveris super terram, erit solutum et in cælis. 20 Tunc præcepit discipulis suis ut nemini dicerent quia ipse esset Jesus Christus.

Protestantism does not have the Four Marks of the Church: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Protestantism is a heresy, and the widespread capitulation to modernism within Protestantism is not something to be emulated–most especially not by Holy Mother Church. If the people of the Church are drawn in by modernism’s worldly attractiveness, the Church herself still cannot be, as Christ Himself said that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (see above for citation).
 
Barbkw said:
I agree whole heartedly with the lack of adult faith formation.

Our priest says that the Catholic Church instructs children and holds social events for adults …but that what is needed is adult faith formation for adults and social events for children.
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How many of these adult have read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” which was published in the USA in March 2000 ?

CCC - “1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.”

CCC - “1798 A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience.”

CCC - " 1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt."

CCC - "1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin. In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.”

Ask your Pastor, Priests, Bishops to encourage the reading of the “CCC 2nd Ed” for everyone over age 15.
They can do this from the Pulpit, by selling CCC’s in Parish office, by writing about it in the Church bulletin.

The Bishops, the Priests, and we ourselves are responsible for our education.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Some Catholics are not one-issue voters and they realize life is more complicated than one issue…jobs, wars, economics, unions, foreign policy, education, immigration, and so many other things are on the table…just because someone doesn’t vote the hardline conservative voting pattern doesn’t “cafeteriasize” them
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Man oh man does your wisdom shine through once again. 😃

Now I have to go to the restroom and whipe some brown off my nose. Pardon me…
 
Orielensis said:
Protestants are more than bad-faith Catholics.
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Amen and Amen. Protestants do reject some things taught by the CC, but they also have their own beliefs and faith. Sometimes Catholics like all Christians will wrestle with things their church teaches and does. They should only be Protestant if they believe Protestant beliefs are true.
 
ANNE_2 said:
Unfortunately, this type of thinking is why California is in such a mess, and based upon their elected officials at the Federal level, they try to force this upon the rest of the Country.

The right to live from conception until natural death is the single most important issue there is.
Without life nothing none of the other issues would even matter.

Abortion is a crime against humanity - both the natural and moral laws.
It deprives the most innocent and most helpless of their God given right to life.
It is murder for convenience.
It violates God’s 5th Commandment - Thou shall not kill.
Over 50 million babies have been murdered in the US - this is GENOCIDE.

Any politican who supports abortion has no sense of ethics or the moral or natural laws, and should never be elected or re-elected.
If they do not have a sense of the moral and natural laws, then their other decisions will be warped based upon a false god of money, desire for power, greed, etc.
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Also to add the millions of arm chair Catholics that have elected many pro-choice
people into political power. Kinda makes ya think… does it not?

Matthew
 
ANNE_2 said:
How many of these adult have read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” which was published in the USA in March 2000 ?

CCC - “1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.”

CCC - “1798 A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience.”

CCC - " 1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt."

CCC - "1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin. In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.”

Ask your Pastor, Priests, Bishops to encourage the reading of the “CCC 2nd Ed” for everyone over age 15.
They can do this from the Pulpit, by selling CCC’s in Parish office, by writing about it in the Church bulletin.

The Bishops, the Priests, and we ourselves are responsible for our education.
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Neither Jesus nor the Apostles told anyone to “read a book”. Written materials are fine as supplements, but they cannot replace teaching and dialogue. The Catholic church has a difficult enough time getting people to read the Bible; I don’t see the majority of Catholics running out to buy and read a Catechism (or reading it online). And most would fall asleep before they got too far into it.

You are so correct that the Bishops, Priests and we ourselves (meaning the parish and the people that make up the parish) are responsible for our education and formation. They all should practice what the CCC preaches.
 
I believe Elvis made a great point early in this thread. We have to place our hand in the pot and take some of the blame.

We are accountable for that which we accept. When we accept another catholics, non-catholic behavior, is essense we are agreeing with it. Not only then are we agreeing with it we are encouraging it.

It the world today we have become less personal and much more dependent of the internet. There’s no doubt a hands on approach is missing today.

I believe its a simple concept which is, I’ll be your friend but I won’t accept your negativity. There’s also a fine line line between tact and being outright annoying. Nonetheless honest conversation is honest conversation. Its not a matter of preaching, but speaking your mind in a direct polite manner.

God Bless, Gary
 
ConstantineTG said:
I lived a big chunk of my adult life as a cafeteria Catholic, yet I credit all that “physically present, mentally absent” attendance at weekly Mass as what eventually helped me grow in the faith. To deny people the faith just because they are not at par with the devout crowd is a “holier than thou” attitude that has no place in the Church. The Church’s mandate is to save as many souls as she can. Things cannot be forced. You cannot expect a 15 year old to act like a 30 year old. Spiritual maturity in the faith is important, and if we kick people out just because they’re not there yet, then they will never be there and will never come back.
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I agree with you here, Constantine. Catholics, as those of any other faith, are not fully formed at the start of their journey. Most people on that journey of faith experience twists and turns, forks in the road, and detours. Such travelers need kindness and gentle guidance from those who may be more advanced in their journey. I’ve found the “holier than thou” attitude in my faith as well, with some of the more Orthodox labeling me and my kind heretics. It has been my experience, however, that those who show compassion and teach by example can often be more effective in keeping the wayward in the fold and reforming them. With all the quotations from Catechisms and such, I seem to recall Jesus Himself saying he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.
 
meltzerboy said:
I agree with you here, Constantine. Catholics, as those of any other faith, are not fully formed at the start of their journey. Most people on that journey of faith experience twists and turns, forks in the road, and detours. Such travelers need kindness and gentle guidance from those who may be more advanced in their journey. I’ve found the “holier than thou” attitude in my faith as well, with some of the more Orthodox labeling me and my kind heretics. It has been my experience, however, that those who show compassion and teach by example can often be more effective in keeping the wayward in the fold and reforming them. With all the quotations from Catechisms and such, I seem to recall Jesus Himself saying he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.
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I agree, here I believe we are more on the right track now.

God Bless, Gary
 
Would someone who desires some to leave the Church also prefer some to be left out of heaven?
 
ANNE_2 said:
How many of these adult have read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” which was published in the USA in March 2000 ?

Ask your Pastor, Priests, Bishops to encourage the reading of the “CCC 2nd Ed” for everyone over age 15.
They can do this from the Pulpit, by selling CCC’s in Parish office, by writing about it in the Church bulletin.

The Bishops, the Priests, and we ourselves are responsible for our education.
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Great advice.

Our Church has begun hosting classes on the Compendium of the Catholic Church.

I’d also recommend this Catholic Children’s Bible - each day, it asks parents and children to read an applicable passage from the CCC:

amazon.com/gp/product/1400315387/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0899426441&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0Z61SJS61G7Z6M6PAHWZ

Check out the “Look Inside” function on Amazon.
 
Should “Cafeteria Catholics” just become Protestant?

That question is so wrong. On so many levels.
 
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