Should "Cafeteria Catholics" just become Protestant?

[Incomplete]

It’s not really unrelated, because the fact is cafeteria catholics might not have left if they TRULY KNEW Catholicism. it.

In fact, many cafeteria Catholics don’t actually “leave”. It’s more about an upbringing or society where we are often asked our opinion, and we learn to think that we are always right, if that makes sense.

For example, when I grew up, in CCD we were never really taught Church teachings. We were asked our opinions on certain ethical teachings without learning the Catholic view. Needless to say, we never learned about things like authority. And it was never suggested that our own personal opinion was not the same as truth. The idea that there could be a real truth out there wasn’t even suggested.

So when I was a cafeteria Catholic, I would never have considered myself having left the Church. Nor would I have considered myself outside of the Church. I was like so many of my Catholic friends. It just seemed unrealistic that one Church could have all of the answers. It made no sense at that time (and it’s the only thing that makes sense now!) And I assumed that every single church taught that they have all the answers, so you belonged to the one you agree with most.

Through God’s grace (and ONLY through God’s grace) I’ve come a long, long way. I am so blessed that nobody suggested I leave the Church. If I had, I might not be where I am now. And neither would my daughter. And neither would my mother-in-law, who was received into the Church when she was 85. And neither would my friend who will be received into the Church on Easter Vigil.

So no, I don’t think we should presume that God wants all cafeteria Catholics out of His Church. Maybe He wants them right there, where their passionate Catholic brothers and sisters can be a positive witness and bring them home.

It is only through God that any of us can understand.

 

[ESMDHokie77]

Nice Post, and yes it’s not that Cafeteria Catholics always leave the church, I never felt myself to have left when I was uneducated in the past.

On CCD…
My Religious Ed classes, which ended with my confirmation at age 14, were mostly centered around this: “God Loves you!” Which isn’t necessarily bad and I didn’t know it at the time, but I thirsted for teaching, apologetics, theology, reason! It definitely could have come in handy since then, but working on that now…

Peace,
Phil

 

[Serap]

I missed a lot of posting. I wasn’t expecting so much discussion.

I am asking wholeheartedly b/c it saddens me that so many people look at Cafeteria Catholics like they are some kind of disease. 80% of Catholics are “Cafeteria Catholics”. I read this yesterday in an article. It got me thinking, that if 80% of Catholics think that the Pope is “behind the times” or “outdated”, then perhaps it is time for the church to re-evaluate it’s stance on things like birth control.

1. Not to allow the pill or IUD b/c it is an abortificient, but to allow barrier methods as a licit method of spacing out babies.
2. To perhaps be a little bit more accepting of gay marriages.
3. Cohabitation of two people in-love with the intention of marrying.

I don’t have the answers. I’m a Cafeteria Catholic I guess b/c I don’t see anything wrong with barrier methods for ABC or gay marriage. Instead of making a gay person feel like they are doomed for Hell, why can’t the CC make them feel more humanized. I simply do not believe the stance of the CC in her teachings against ABC (barrier methods) and gay marriage.

Many many Catholics that I know are also in agreement with me on these issues as well. I am posting simply b/c the majority of Catholics feel that the Catholic church is wrong on these two fundamental issues.

 

[Incomplete]

I missed a lot of posting. I wasn’t expecting so much discussion.

I am asking wholeheartedly b/c it saddens me that so many people look at Cafeteria Catholics like they are some kind of disease. 80% of Catholics are “Cafeteria Catholics”. I read this yesterday in an article. It got me thinking, that if 80% of Catholics think that the Pope is “behind the times” or “outdated”, then perhaps it is time for the church to re-evaluate it’s stance on things like birth control.

1. Not to allow the pill or IUD b/c it is an abortificient, but to allow barrier methods as a licit method of spacing out babies.
2. To perhaps be a little bit more accepting of gay marriages.
3. Cohabitation of two people in-love with the intention of marrying.

I don’t have the answers. I’m a Cafeteria Catholic I guess b/c I don’t see anything wrong with barrier methods for ABC or gay marriage. Instead of making a gay person feel like they are doomed for Hell, why can’t the CC make them feel more humanized. I simply do not believe the stance of the CC in her teachings against ABC (barrier methods) and gay marriage.

Many many Catholics that I know are also in agreement with me on these issues as well. I am posting simply b/c the majority of Catholics feel that the Catholic church is wrong on these two fundamental issues.

I realize that some Catholics (and some protestants) think all homosexuals are damned, but that’s not Catholic teaching. I do feel badly for how some are driven away from the Church because they perceive this attitude.

One thing I realized as a cafeteria Catholic was that just because I believe things should be OK doesn’t mean I am right. There are many brilliant minds who disagreed with me. And even if 80% of Catholics believe they are right it doesn’t make it so. When I finally realized that, I was able to look at the “why” of Church teachings with a better understanding.

At some point I realized that Jesus said He would send the Spirit to lead us to ALL truth. That means there must be some place to find it, some deposit of truth. It can’t be that the Spirit leads us each individually because we all know how much prayer-filled people can differ. So there must be a deposit of truth, one we can find.

To me that implies a Church that has been here since the time of Jesus and one that doesn’t change it’s teachings over time…because truth doesn’t change.

So I would ask you to continue to be passionate towards homosexuals and realize that the Church is also. I also understand the difficulty in understanding the stance of the Church on contraception. It took me a long, long time to “get it.” As far as people co-habitating, remember that this is also because of prohibitions in the Bible and since early Christianity. And when you examine each of these issues separately, really study them, you will find the Church teachings are in the best interest of each of us as individuals. Which is one reason why I am fairly confident that the Church is right in proclaiming that these teachings come from God.

I do understand your difficulties. But I would also suggest you think about your own beliefs and question how to know that your beliefs are truths and the beliefs of the Church are not. Because it’s not beliefs that are important. It’s the truth that is important.

 

[Barbkw]

It got me thinking, that if 80% of Catholics think that the Pope is “behind the times” or “outdated”, then perhaps it is time for the church to re-evaluate it’s stance on things like birth control.

1. Not to allow the pill or IUD b/c it is an abortificient, but to allow barrier methods as a licit method of spacing out babies.
2. To perhaps be a little bit more accepting of gay marriages.
3. Cohabitation of two people in-love with the intention of marrying.

I don’t have the answers. I’m a Cafeteria Catholic I guess b/c I don’t see anything wrong with barrier methods for ABC or gay marriage.

The first step for me, was to respect the authority of the Pope (which throws out your first comment “if 80% of Catholics think that the Pope is “behind the times” or “outdated”, then perhaps it is time for the church to re-evaluate it’s stance on things like birth control”.)

The Pope decides in light of Apostolic Tradition and Sacred Scripture, not the laity.

 

[fred_conty]

My short answer is “Yes.”

Then we would ALL have to leave because we’ve all been there and done the cafe style when we have sinned.

 

[wanner47]

I missed a lot of posting. I wasn’t expecting so much discussion.

I am asking wholeheartedly b/c it saddens me that so many people look at Cafeteria Catholics like they are some kind of disease. 80% of Catholics are “Cafeteria Catholics”. I read this yesterday in an article. It got me thinking, that if 80% of Catholics think that the Pope is “behind the times” or “outdated”, then perhaps it is time for the church to re-evaluate it’s stance on things like birth control.

1. Not to allow the pill or IUD b/c it is an abortificient, but to allow barrier methods as a licit method of spacing out babies.
2. To perhaps be a little bit more accepting of gay marriages.
3. Cohabitation of two people in-love with the intention of marrying.

I don’t have the answers. I’m a Cafeteria Catholic I guess b/c I don’t see anything wrong with barrier methods for ABC or gay marriage. Instead of making a gay person feel like they are doomed for Hell, why can’t the CC make them feel more humanized. I simply do not believe the stance of the CC in her teachings against ABC (barrier methods) and gay marriage.

Many many Catholics that I know are also in agreement with me on these issues as well. I am posting simply b/c the majority of Catholics feel that the Catholic church is wrong on these two fundamental issues.

Do you believe that truth is determined by majority vote?

Do you believe that Jesus Christ gave teaching authority to the Catholic Church?

If your answer to the first question is yes, and your answer to the second is no, then I guess I see why you feel as you do. At that point, though, you are effectively a Protestant, since you don’t believe that there is any objective truth or any authority to teach that objective truth.

 

[Radical]

…the fact is cafeteria catholics might not have left if they TRULY KNEW Catholicism.

That is a possibility…it might also be wishful thinking…another possibility is that if all Catholics became better informed on the history and teachings of the CC, then more would adopt the cafeteria approach…I think that is a possibility b/c it isn’t as if the halls of the history and theology departments at Catholic universities are hotbeds of conservative Catholicism.

 

[estesbob]

well thanks for sharing that unrelated tidbit…allow me to reciprocate: I like cake.

If you know as little about cake as you do the Catholic faith ill pass.

 

[Barbkw]

That is a possibility…it might also be wishful thinking…another possibility is that if all Catholics became better informed on the history and teachings of the CC, then more would adopt the cafeteria approach…I think that is a possibility b/c it isn’t as if the halls of the history and theology departments at Catholic universities are hotbeds of conservative Catholicism.

I was listening to EWTN’s “Sunday Night Prime” and a priest said that liberal Catholic universities are the last to change their views and their theology, due to pride.

youtube.com/user/EWTN#p/u/10/2HkteiFcGmQ

Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR with Fr. Joseph Fessio, SJ - founder and editor of Ignatius Press speaking about the book, “Jesus of Nazareth, by Pope Benedict XVI”.

 

[shinytoy]

There are many, many who are very public about their dissent.

most of my catholic friends are very public that they are catholic if asked their religion BUT:

• they are all in live in relationships
• some are homosexual
• all approve of gay rights and transgender rights, and gay marriage
• most are pro-choice
• all use contraception
• some are not sure if they believe in God
• none attend mass, and some attend church at christmas or easter or weddings only
• anne hathaway (celeb) and lady gaga left the CC because it discriminated against gays
• none believe in confession
• none believe catholicicm is necessary as all eligions are the same

loads of people come up to me and say ‘why dont you do XYZ’ and i say ‘im catholic ad it goes against my beliefs’ then they reply ‘oh well i know alot of catholics what DO do XYZ(any of the above listed)’

 

[BrushedByAngels]

I missed a lot of posting. I wasn’t expecting so much discussion.

I am asking wholeheartedly b/c it saddens me that so many people look at Cafeteria Catholics like they are some kind of disease. 80% of Catholics are “Cafeteria Catholics”. I read this yesterday in an article. It got me thinking, that if 80% of Catholics think that the Pope is “behind the times” or “outdated”, then perhaps it is time for the church to re-evaluate it’s stance on things like birth control.

1. Not to allow the pill or IUD b/c it is an abortificient, but to allow barrier methods as a licit method of spacing out babies.
2. To perhaps be a little bit more accepting of gay marriages.
3. Cohabitation of two people in-love with the intention of marrying.

I don’t have the answers. I’m a Cafeteria Catholic I guess b/c I don’t see anything wrong with barrier methods for ABC or gay marriage. Instead of making a gay person feel like they are doomed for Hell, why can’t the CC make them feel more humanized. I simply do not believe the stance of the CC in her teachings against ABC (barrier methods) and gay marriage.

Many many Catholics that I know are also in agreement with me on these issues as well. I am posting simply b/c the majority of Catholics feel that the Catholic church is wrong on these two fundamental issues.

My question to you would be (if you are a cafeteria catholic) why do you stay? Wouldn’t you feel right at home in the Episcopal Church? I am just curious. I am not asking you to leave by any means. That is not my intention. My desire for you is to learn our Roman Catholic teachings and understand why the church teaches what she does… it will be right there in the bible for you to see. Once you understand the teachings you will become accepting of them. I ask this of all ‘cafeteria catholics’ because I do want them to stay within our church. You are already Catholic and once you become educated on the teachings, will be easier to see the full beauty of our church. You will want to do what is right. Please give it a try… You will become a devoted catholic. I will pray for you. OK?

In regards to the “behind the times” spiel. A sin is a sin as it was then and will be a sin tomorrow… and beyond.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

How many Catholics follow 100% of the teachings of the Church, 100% of the time?

If you do not, you are, in effect, a “Cafeteria Catholic”. So, would the author of this topic answer the question: “Should YOU become a Protestant?”

 

[Scott_D_1]

I ahve a few things to toss in the mix (while I did not read all the pages)

But define “Cafeteria” - Is it Just gay marriage, Abortion, Birth Control?

What about those Catholics that miss a Sunday Mass due to going to a Football game on Sunday? - Is this a reason for them to just become Protestant?

What about before Pope John Paul II in 1992, made it offical in the church, that the Earth revovles around the Sun? Should all Catholics before 1992 become Protestant?

I am willing to bet very few of your “every day” or “average” Catholic believes 100% what the Church says. - Those in vocation with the church, daily mass attendees may…
This church has evolved over the last 2000 years,
But I don’t think anyone wants to kick out anyone from the church because they use birth control due to some economic reasons and can’t afford to bring another life into this world.

 

[wanner47]

How many Catholics follow 100% of the teachings of the Church, 100% of the time?

If you do not, you are, in effect, a “Cafeteria Catholic”. So, would the author of this topic answer the question: “Should YOU become a Protestant?”

There’s a difference between sinning and repenting, and open dissent with no repentance.

 

[FromTheAshes777]

I missed a lot of posting. I wasn’t expecting so much discussion.

I am asking wholeheartedly b/c it saddens me that so many people look at Cafeteria Catholics like they are some kind of disease. 80% of Catholics are “Cafeteria Catholics”. I read this yesterday in an article. It got me thinking, that if 80% of Catholics think that the Pope is “behind the times” or “outdated”, then perhaps it is time for the church to re-evaluate it’s stance on things like birth control.

1. Not to allow the pill or IUD b/c it is an abortificient, but to allow barrier methods as a licit method of spacing out babies.
2. To perhaps be a little bit more accepting of gay marriages.
3. Cohabitation of two people in-love with the intention of marrying.

I don’t have the answers. I’m a Cafeteria Catholic I guess b/c I don’t see anything wrong with barrier methods for ABC or gay marriage. Instead of making a gay person feel like they are doomed for Hell, why can’t the CC make them feel more humanized. I simply do not believe the stance of the CC in her teachings against ABC (barrier methods) and gay marriage.

Many many Catholics that I know are also in agreement with me on these issues as well. I am posting simply b/c the majority of Catholics feel that the Catholic church is wrong on these two fundamental issues.

To address the issue of gay “marriage”. Two men or two women cannot “marry” and it be considered a Sacrament. This has always been Church teaching and it isn’t something that can change, it is a dogma.

There simply isn’t the physical matter present for it to be a sacramental marriage in this type of relationship, any more than a man could marry a tree or a woman could marry a car.

The Church can change disciplines but not dogmas. Having compassion twoards homosexuals means not endorsing, celebrating, or applauding immoral sexual ethics which are harmful to both the body and soul, the same applies to straight people who are being sexually immoral.

Sacred Scripture clearly states that sexual immorality is a barrier to entering Heaven. The Church’s mission is to lead people to Heaven. How can She do that by embracing sexual immorality which is contrary to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition which She claims to teach?

 

[elvisman]

Does scripture teach about:

a) Jews (like the apostles) still going to the temple…and Gentiles not?
This was more out of** custom****. It had nothing to do with sacrificing animals for sin reparations, etc.**

It would be** similar**** to you or I having a Seder meal with a Jewish friend or for that matter - the Posadas in Mexico, Sim bang Gabi in the Fillipines or other cultural festival. It ****wasn’t **about observing the Old Law that Jesus nailed to the cross (Col 2:14).

These things were but shadows - Christ is the reality (Col. 2:17).

b) varying attitudes WRT to days being sacred or not (Romans 14:5)?

c)varying attitudes as to what can and cannot be eaten (Romans 14)?
d) …or generally a set of rules for Jewish Christians and another set for Gentile Christians?
e) …or generally a set of rules for mature Christians and another set for immature Christians?
**And YOU are taking these verses out of context. Paul is speaking about dietary habits and devotions and how we are not to ostracize each other because of them. This doesn’t speak to how we should worship. We are to be of ONE body, ONE Spirit, ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism; **

(Eph. 4:4-6). Paul tells us to do precisely as they (Apostles, leaders) do and to imitate them I every way. He is painfully clear about that in 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Thess. 2:15, 1 Cor. 11:1-21, Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 2:2.

The Christian faith is NOT a free-for-all. It is a structured Body
Nowhere in the Bible will you find the idea that we should be Lone Ranger believers. It’s** ALL**** about the Church – Christ’s Body.**

f) the freedom of the believer (1 Cor 10)?

**Again – Paul is not talking about how we can or should worship differently. He is speaking about what. **

1 Cor. 10** is more about how we are ONE in Christ, but that we ought not judge each other because of our diets and secular habit – avoiding giving offense to one another. This has NOTHING to do with worshipping freely or differently. On the contrary – it is about remaining ONE Body.**

 

[fred_conty]

There’s a difference between sinning and repenting, and open dissent with no repentance.

WHO is there in church? The man from
galliee, who touches. It isn’t over till the curtain comes down, which is leaving.

 

[Radical]

One thing I realized as a cafeteria Catholic was that just because I believe things should be OK doesn’t mean I am right. There are many brilliant minds who disagreed with me.

and there still are…and many extremely loving and righteous people too

And even if 80% of Catholics believe they are right it doesn’t make it so.

and even if 20% of Catholics believe that the Magisterium is right…it doesn’t make it so.

At some point I realized that Jesus said He would send the Spirit to lead us to ALL truth. That means there must be some place to find it, some deposit of truth. It can’t be that the Spirit leads us each individually because we all know how much prayer-filled people can differ. So there must be a deposit of truth, one we can find.

and so your interpretation tells you that Jesus’s promise was to the 20% and not the 80%

To me that implies a Church that has been here since the time of Jesus and one that doesn’t change it’s teachings over time…because truth doesn’t change.

I would find this a lot easier to swallow if the official teaching of the CC hadn’t “developed” so much over the centuries.

 

[wanner47]

I would find this a lot easier to swallow if the official teaching of the CC hadn’t “developed” so much over the centuries.

Do you also find it hard to believe that an acorn can grow into an oak tree?

Or that a two-celled zygote can grow into a newborn baby?