Should "Cafeteria Catholics" just become Protestant?

[ndeparis88]

I ahve a few things to toss in the mix (while I did not read all the pages)

But define “Cafeteria” - Is it Just gay marriage, Abortion, Birth Control?

What about those Catholics that miss a Sunday Mass due to going to a Football game on Sunday? - Is this a reason for them to just become Protestant?

What about before Pope John Paul II in 1992, made it offical in the church, that the Earth revovles around the Sun? Should all Catholics before 1992 become Protestant?

I am willing to bet very few of your “every day” or “average” Catholic believes 100% what the Church says. - Those in vocation with the church, daily mass attendees may…
This church has evolved over the last 2000 years,
But I don’t think anyone wants to kick out anyone from the church because they use birth control due to some economic reasons and can’t afford to bring another life into this world.

But there is a big difference between using birth control because you really know you can’t provide for a child, and using it just because you want to have sex and not put up with the aftermath. NFP is just as effective as birth control. As far as the Mass goes, there are a lot of times the mass is going on as well as Saturday. If your away and still miss it confession will help. I think there is a lot to say about intent. Some Catholics accept all the teachings, but putting them into practice, especially in today’s age is not easy. If you use birth control and are sorry for using it that’s a start, but using it and not caring what it does is where the trouble happens.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

and there still are…and many extremely loving and righteous people too

and even if 20% of Catholics believe that the Magisterium is right…it doesn’t make it so.

and so your interpretation tells you that Jesus’s promise was to the 20% and not the 80%

I would find this a lot easier to swallow if the official teaching of the CC hadn’t “developed” so much over the centuries.

As to your last point - it’s just what the Orthodox have been saying (since 1054 AD)

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Just a point to the original question, I have friends who are Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists.

They pray very ardently on a daily basis, attend their churches, receive the sacraments in them (a number of them do so on their knees), read the Bible assiduously, pray the daily offices of their traditions (one Methodist I know is a member of the Methodist religious Order of St Luke that prays EIGHT hours of prayer daily), participate in charitable works in their communities and they all FAST weekly, especially during Lent.

I would like to know, if the Catholics here would be so kind to inform me, which Catholic - whether of the Cafeteria, Bistro, Diner or posh Restaurant variety - would be spiritual enough to follow in their footsteps?

I’m holding out the fingers of one hand to you right now . . .

Alex

 

[wanner47]

As to your last point - it’s just what the Orthodox have been saying (since 1054 AD)

Yeah, because it’s not like the Orthodox have flat-out changed their teachings on contraception (i.e.,condoms) and remarriage after divorce.

Oh wait…

 

[Madaglan]

You have touched on a HUGE problem within the Catholic church: the lack of continuing religious formation. In most places that I have observed, any formal education (and often it isn’t very “formal”) ends by the junior year of high school or sooner, depending on when young people are confirmed.

I have surveyed several Catholic parishes, mostly by talking to parishioners, reading their bulletins and checking their websites. There is an amazing lack of adult faith formation. Compare that to most Protestant and Jewish faiths, and the Catholic church is woefully behind.

I have brought this question up with several priests, catechists and others. Most don’t realize there is a problem, and some point to what they do offer, which is usually on a week day, not in the evening or on a weekend. So the only people who can attend are the unemployed and retirees!

I have even tried to find programs on a diocesan level, and have found only a few offerings which may require driving 40 or 50 miles to attend. And most of those are also offered only during the day.

There are several causes for “cafeteria Catholics”, one of them being that anyone who is baptized into the Church is “Catholic” no matter what they believe or what they have been taught. That is like giving out a diploma to someone who never read a book or took a class.

But the biggest reason for the variety of beliefs and misinformation is simply that Catholics are not educated in their faith. And, unfortunately, most don’t care to be, as I have heard from priests and DRE’s who have tried to offer programs to adults and got few if any takers. Apparently most adult Catholics have no interest in truly forming and understanding their faith.

Here is a little secret. Many years ago, I was an instructor for my former parish’s Confirmation program (a scary thought for those who have read some of my posts). At Confirmation, the catechists for the final year (I did the first year) were asked to declare to the parish, the Bishop and the parents that the students were prepared to be confirmed. I told the DRE that it was a good thing that I was not asked to make this statement, as I would have had to say they weren’t ready (or that only one or two of my 12 or 14 students were ready).

These young people were confirmed yet for the most part had no real understanding of their church or its key doctrines. Why would we expect that to change when they became adults?

Insightful post… I know a number of Catholic reverts who are appreciative for the teaching they received when in Protestant churches, before returning to Catholicism. .

 

[Mickey]

Yeah, because it’s not like the Orthodox have flat-out changed their teachings on contraception and remarriage after divorce.

Oh wait…

There is no need to take pot shots at the Holy Orthodox Church during Holy Week or any other time. For shame.

 

[Madaglan]

Just a point to the original question, I have friends who are Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists.

They pray very ardently on a daily basis, attend their churches, receive the sacraments in them (a number of them do so on their knees), read the Bible assiduously, pray the daily offices of their traditions (one Methodist I know is a member of the Methodist religious Order of St Luke that prays EIGHT hours of prayer daily), participate in charitable works in their communities and they all FAST weekly, especially during Lent.

I would like to know, if the Catholics here would be so kind to inform me, which Catholic - whether of the Cafeteria, Bistro, Diner or posh Restaurant variety - would be spiritual enough to follow in their footsteps?

I’m holding out the fingers of one hand to you right now . . .

Alex

EIGHT hours of prayer daily?! That’s intense.

 

[wanner47]

There is no need to take pot shots at the Holy Orthodox Church during Holy Week or any other time. For shame.

It’s not a pot shot, it’s truth.

And you’re not similarly reprimanding the original poster (Alexander Roman) why…?

 

[wanner47]

Just a point to the original question, I have friends who are Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists.

They pray very ardently on a daily basis, attend their churches, receive the sacraments in them (a number of them do so on their knees), read the Bible assiduously, pray the daily offices of their traditions (one Methodist I know is a member of the Methodist religious Order of St Luke that prays EIGHT hours of prayer daily), participate in charitable works in their communities and they all FAST weekly, especially during Lent.

I would like to know, if the Catholics here would be so kind to inform me, which Catholic - whether of the Cafeteria, Bistro, Diner or posh Restaurant variety - would be spiritual enough to follow in their footsteps?

I’m holding out the fingers of one hand to you right now . . .

Alex

Actually, there are many Catholic cloistered religious communities all around the world that are as “spiritual” – in face, these communities predate Protestantism so you the Protestants actually follow in their footsteps.

Are these friends of yours living lives of consecrated celibacy as well?

 

[Mickey]

It’s not a pot shot

It is a pot shot and an insult. It has nothing to do with the OP.

 

[wanner47]

It is a pot shot and an insult. It has nothing to do with the OP.

It’s a response to someone justifying the Protestant claim that the Catholic Church has changed its doctrines, implying that the Orthodox Church has never done so, which is false.

It’s very relevant, and very true.

 

[fred_conty]

If they leave, where would they go? What faith?

• predestination to hell
• once saved, always saved
• abortion and homesexuality
• women priests
• rapture
• Jesus only man
• no Trinity
• no real presence of Jesus
• no last sacrament and viaticum
• good works don’t count
• convienient holiness
• health and wealth
• or the ultimate CHICK CHURCH
• sola scriptura or sola fide or sola … or sola …
• my way or no way pastors
• keep looking church
• lets do this church today
• the truth variety
• or lets start a church of our own
• pick the easyist one church
• 32,000 choices (an none fit)

 

[Madaglan]

That is a possibility…it might also be wishful thinking…another possibility is that if all Catholics became better informed on the history and teachings of the CC, then more would adopt the cafeteria approach…I think that is a possibility b/c it isn’t as if the halls of the history and theology departments at Catholic universities are hotbeds of conservative Catholicism.

I think there needs to be a greater effort at instructing Catholics while they are at the church. My experience has been that the most Catholics leave the church right after Mass (some leave immediately after the priest says “The Mass has ended,” to avoid traffic going out). If parishes were to include after-Mass presentations, studies, classes, etc. and/or incorporate a coffee hour, Catholics would have a better understanding of their faith. For example, someone could present on the life of a saint, another on the history of a religious order, another on Catholicism in different parts of the world. Not everyone in the parish would attend, but many people would.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

There’s a difference between sinning and repenting, and open dissent with no repentance.

:sad_yes:

for 20 years I stayed in mortal sin, starting at age 14 when I stopped going to Mass.

I remember watching Phil Donohue, and he had Martin Scorsese as a guest. This has to be circa 20 years ago, so I might not remember exactly.

Phil: Don’t you think the Church needs to change, allow XYZ, bla-bla bla, etc?

Martin: No, I don’t believe the Church has to change, I just don’t agree with it’s teachings.

I was like Martin, and actually would defend the Church’s stance on basically everything in discussions.

But I didn’t agree with ABC, or abortion (I used to be pro choice, shamefully enough)

What brought me back? The Eucharist. I, fortunately knew the rules, no receiving unless you have been to confession for any mortal sins. So for 20 years I abstained.

My husband started going to Mass first, daily Mass, and seeing his spiritual advisor.

Me, “I don’t need to go to Church to Love God”

But I would go with him, and sit in the pew, and inevitably, starting at the Liturgy of the Eucharist, I’d start to weep. Always. I don’t know why. Maybe my soul ached because I was separate from God.

So finally I went to confession, 7 years ago February.

Bottom line, if the Church has the authority to ordain a Priest, and that Priest in Persona Christi can give me Jesus, the Church has the authority to teach me and guide me to heaven.

Jesus died for me. If I were the only person on Earth, He would still die for me.

He is the one I am supposed to love more than all others. How can I say I don’t like his Bride, or His Bride needs to update and get with the times?

 

[thirddec]

Everyone is a Cateteria Catholic to some degree or another or at some point in their life or another so If everyone did as the Question suggest there would be no Church. Im no expert but i have faith that in time Christ will keep pulling his strays back and Keep finding the lost sheep. I for one would not advocate chasing them away.

 

[Mickey]

It’s a response to someone justifying the Protestant claim that the Catholic Church has changed its doctrines, implying that the Orthodox Church has never done so, which is false.

Doctrinally it is true. And it still has nothing to do with the OP.

As far as your insult, there have been many threads on disciplines of the Church—most of which get shut down due to lack of charity. It goes something like this:

**Orthodox: ** Condom use may be allowed due to exceptional circumstances (such as one spouse has AIDS) by one’s spiritual father through an act of economia.

RC: Contraception is evil!

Orthodox: NFP is a form of contraception and Rome is studying condom use for exceptional situations such as one spouse having AIDS.

RC: That’s not true! Furthermore you allow divorce.

Orthodox: Annulments are equivilent to ecclesiastical divorce.

RC: That’s not true!

ETC, ETC, ETC…thread closed.

Give it a break wanner.

 

[ciero]

98% of Catholic women use ABC. Many Catholics are not anti gay marriage. Many Catholics do not agree with the teachings of the CC, but b/c they were raised Catholic, they remain Catholic.

Shouldn’t they just become Protestant instead? Or should they remain Catholic despite their belief that the CC is outdated.

btw…I am not talking about abortion here. Please don’t bring this up. Every woman I know that fits the description of Cafeteria Catholic is very anti-abortion.

Bit judgmental…no? I have yet to meet a Catholic who didn’t pick and choose something. I’m sure all you guys here are completely 100% catholic though.

And where does the Church teach one must be anti gay?

I can’t stand these holier then thou threads! Makes me sick.

Have a Blessed Holy Week and keep on judging others !

 

[wanner47]

Doctrinally it is true. And it still has nothing to do with the OP.

Not it’s not, and yes it does.

As far as your insult, there have been many threads on disciplines of the Church—most of which get shut down due to lack of charity. It goes something like this:

Teachings about contraception and fornication are not disciplines. They are doctrines.

Give it a break wanner.

Try taking out the plank in your own eye before addressing the speck in mine.

 

[Glennonite]

There are many, many who are very public about their dissent.

Those who are quiet dissenters, I consider to be on a journey of DISCERNMENT. I’ve done as much…that’s faith for ya. Jour, day, daily struggle, etc.

Those who are vocal about “their” Catholic faith need to zip-it, and/or join with a Protestant group that fits their temporary set of ever changing-beliefs.

That’s why Protestantism is so great; you get whatever your little heart desires in a god. AND you can chage it to fit the moment; brilliant idea. Jesus should have simply said, “You’re on your own, good luck.”

Am sounding too grumpy?

Glennonite

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Actually, there are many Catholic cloistered religious communities all around the world that are as “spiritual” – in face, these communities predate Protestantism so you the Protestants actually follow in their footsteps.

Are these friends of yours living lives of consecrated celibacy as well?

A few of them actually are - and they all do value celibacy.

To belong to the Order of St Luke, one can be either celibate or married via Third Order. They wear red scapulars and, in every which way, are like the historic religious Orders.

My point is not say that these Protestants are more spiritual than Catholics , only that they can be as spiritual and, in the case of many Catholics I know, give us a run for our money in the spirituality department.

These Protestants I know aren’t cloistered either. They live a real Christian commitment in the world and witness to Christ openly.

I just wish that more Catholics (that I know up here) would go beyond Sunday Mass and do like them (and yes, some of them, both Anglicans and Lutherans, are seeking to come into the Ordinariate).

Alex