Should "Cafeteria Catholics" just become Protestant?

[Serap]

…Dont be too insulted … Catholics have a lot of deep misconceptions about other Christians. The fact that they equate irresponsible Catholics with the rest of us Christians is part of Catholic DNA. They cant help it. (I have the perspective of having been a Catholic for the first 25 years of my life).
I took flying lessons once and there were a lot of bumper stickers in the parking lot that said … If you aint a pilot you aint ----!!
Infallibility has its privilege.

I’m Catholic and sometimes I am embarrassed by what other Catholics say on CAF. It just makes me feel a lot of empathy for good Christians who are very reverent towards Jesus and still get made to feel as though they aren’t worthy b/c they lack the “whole truth”.

It’s nothing more than a modern Pharisee.

 

[Serap]

The issue is that non-Catholic Christian faiths believe different things. And when some Christian faiths started voting on what is sinful and what was not - regardless of what the Bible says - it makes it more confusing.
When some non-Catholic Christian faiths voted that homosexual acts were OK, that abortion was OK, etc. it made me very sad. This is not Sola Scriptura.

Here is one example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterianism_and_homosexuality
While the Bible says: Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10 1 Tim 1:10

Here is another: pregnantpause.org/people/wherchur.htm
Bible: Thou shall not kill.
Jer 1:5 Job 10:8-12 Ps 22:10-11

Yes, but most Christians DO believe that abortion is wrong. The ones that think abortion is ok are the minority.

As for homosexuality, heck even most Catholics don’t see anything wrong with it.

 

[estesbob]

I’m Catholic and sometimes I am embarrassed by what other Catholics say on CAF. It just makes me feel a lot of empathy for good Christians who are very reverent towards Jesus and still get made to feel as though they aren’t worthy b/c they lack the “whole truth”.

It’s nothing more than a modern Pharisee.

They do lack the whole truth. It is strange to see that you are embarassed by other Catholics adhering to the faith. Do you believe all Faiths are eqaul? Do you believe there is nothing special about Catholicism-that it is just another chrisitian denomination?

The Church teaches that those who are not Catholic have put their immortal souls in danger that unless they are afflicted with invincible ignorance they are lost? Do you believe that? Where salvation is concerned shouldnt we share the truth with others?

 

[rinnie]

Do you really think the Pope of Rome will be able to stop the madness?

Of course he can. If God wants him to he can do anything. The Pope can and will do whatever pleases God with the Grace he is given to do this with the Power of the Holy Spirit.

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ the Bishop of Rome, he is at the same time Peter. Do you think that the Pope has any added stress then Peter. The Pope knows that he will be hated and condemned by many. He is used to it, and he has the Grace of God to handle it the same as Peter.

Trust me Papa can handle whatever God gives him. He has this promise from God. God will never give him more then he can handle.

Remember the words from Christ to Peter, Peter I have prayed for you. Well we all as faithful Catholic’s pray for our Pope daily that God will keep him strong and continue to lead the sheep. I personally am very proud of My Papa!!

 

[rinnie]

Yes, but most Christians DO believe that abortion is wrong. The ones that think abortion is ok are the minority.

As for homosexuality, heck even most Catholics don’t see anything wrong with it.

While I agree that as a Catholic we are taught to hate the sin not the sinner I do not see where we most Catholics don’t hate sin.

I have to disagree with you that we should not hate sin and are okay with it.

I believe you are getting the teachings of the RCC mixed up.

The Pope teaches that we should love the person and pray for them who do have this heavy cross to carry, which means the Pope does not deny the feeling’s and understands they indeed do exist. But the Pope also says that while all sin exists it can be overpowered by the Grace of God.

The CHurch never teaches to accept this behavior. It is the actions of the gay person that is unacceptable in the CHurch and is a mortal sin. No Catholic should accept mortal sin of anyone.

And I cannot believe what you are saying that most Catholic’s accept mortal sin. This is not correct nor should ever be.

And if so, Then as a Catholic I beg you all to go back and study your faith. Sin is unacceptable. Especially mortal sin of the soul.

And also we need to define what is a Catholic. A Catholic follows their faith and agrees with the teaching’s of the Church.

What you are describing is not a Catholic it is what is called a FALLEN Catholic. Someone who has fell from the teaching’s of the Catholic Faith. BIg difference.

No one can accept mortal sin and claim they have not fell from the faith. That is impossible.

 

[Radical]

Is “Sola Scriptura” non-required?

this is the default position, once one finds error in existing tradition

Or “once saved al…”? Or “sola fide”?
Or the Pastor says so? Symbolism? I believe these are some of the
required traditions in some denominations.

these should all be interpretations of scripture

to be precise, that should be that “nothing in Catholicism goes against
Scripture as interpreted by conservative Catholics.”

That also stands for High Catholics, Mid Catholics and Low Catholics
or any Catholics.

no, those blessed Cafeteria Catholics may very well believe that what the hierarchy teaches goes against the plain meaning of scripture in certain instances.

I would agree if you mean that we attain a fuller understanding of
truth. I would disagree that there has been any new revelation of
truth.

how would one gain a fuller understanding of truth w/o new revelation?..the application of logic to existing revelation?

 

[estesbob]

this is the default position, once one finds error in existing tradition

these should all be interpretations of scripture

no, those blessed Cafeteria Catholics may very well believe that what the hierarchy teaches goes against the plain meaning of scripture in certain instances.

how would one gain a fuller understanding of truth w/o new revelation?..the application of logic to existing revelation?

When we have multiple different interpretations of Scripture which do we go with?

 

[fred_conty]

…Dont be too insulted … Catholics have a lot of deep misconceptions about other Christians. The fact that they equate irresponsible Catholics with the rest of us Christians is part of Catholic DNA. They cant help it. (I have the perspective of having been a Catholic for the first 25 years of my life).
I took flying lessons once and there were a lot of bumper stickers in the parking lot that said … If you aint a pilot you aint ----!!
Infallibility has its privilege.

1voice, I apoligize to you and to anyone who has felt we have been overbearing. I mean that. My deepest apology. There is no excuse. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

And I am saying according to the word of God Church DIVORCES are the wrong thing to do. Not accepted in the RCC.

The first line in marriage is to promise to love honor and obey how can that be possible if you are not attracted to the opposite sex?

But an “annulment” implies that the marriage wasn’t licit to begin with. Apart from the case you mention, how can someone obtain an annulment after living with someone for years and after having children?

The definition of “annulment” is therefore expanded if the Church authorities were to grant such, don’t you think? And then “divorce under another name” is what such an “annulment” amounts to.

My point is that the Orthodox Church does not differ in this from the Catholic Church.

Alex

 

[wanner47]

Yes, but most Christians DO believe that abortion is wrong. The ones that think abortion is ok are the minority.

Actually… that’s not true. Most Christian denominations do allow abortion. Very few openly oppose it. Some even advocate for it.

As for homosexuality, heck even most Catholics don’t see anything wrong with it.

If most Catholics didn’t see anything wrong with pedophilia, would that make it okay?

Once again, truth is not determined by majority vote.

 

[estesbob]

But an “annulment” implies that the marriage wasn’t licit to begin with. Apart from the case you mention, how can someone obtain an annulment after living with someone for years and after having children?

The definition of “annulment” is therefore expanded if the Church authorities were to grant such, don’t you think? And then “divorce under another name” is what such an “annulment” amounts to.

My point is that the Orthodox Church does not differ in this from the Catholic Church.

Alex

If a sacramental marriage did not exist then it does not matter how many children the couple had a how long they lived together. An annulment is the Church’s determination that a sacramental marriage never existed. If it was just a divorce by another name then every single annulment requested would be granted. We know that this is not true and although we can all cite cases where a certain diocese may have been overly lenient we cannot judge the correctness of policy by looking at only when it was abused.

I don’t know whether we’re different than the Orthodox Church are not and I personally don’t see why that is an important issue. If you are comfortable with the position of the Orthodox Church there really is no need for you to defend it nor is there a need for you to criticize the way it is handled in the Catholic Church.

 

[Serap]

Actually… that’s not true. Most Christian denominations do allow abortion. Very few openly oppose it. Some even advocate for it.

If most Catholics didn’t see anything wrong with pedophilia, would that make it okay?

Once again, truth is not determined by majority vote.

How do you have so much debating energy in the first trimester? When I was pregnant, I was so tired and unable to pu t a sentence together!

I have also read that 40% of abortions are Catholic women too.

 

[wanner47]

How do you have so much debating energy in the first trimester? When I was pregnant, I was so tired and unable to pu t a sentence together!

Sheer force of will.

I have also read that 40% of abortions are Catholic women too.

I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Catholics sin just as much as anyone else. Regardless, there are many who will say “Catholic” when asked for their religious affiliation even if they haven’t darkened the door of a Catholic Church in 30 years… stats like the above do not differentiate between cultural Catholics, nominal Catholics, and practicing Catholics.

 

[estesbob]

How do you have so much debating energy in the first trimester? When I was pregnant, I was so tired and unable to pu t a sentence together!

I have also read that 40% of abortions are Catholic women too.

Although the Planned Parenthood would have you believe that 40% of abortions were for Catholic women there is no real evidence of this. The reason being that there are no uniform reporting requirements for abortions. Even if it was true, of course, it would mean absolutely nothing other than Catholic Church prone to sin as everybody else.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

If a sacramental marriage did not exist then it does not matter how many children the couple had a how long they lived together. An annulment is the Church’s determination that a sacramental marriage never existed. If it was just a divorce by another name then every single annulment requested would be granted. We know that this is not true and although we can all cite cases where a certain diocese may have been overly lenient we cannot judge the correctness of policy by looking at only when it was abused.

I don’t know whether we’re different than the Orthodox Church are not and I personally don’t see why that is an important issue. If you are comfortable with the position of the Orthodox Church there really is no need for you to defend it nor is there a need for you to criticize the way it is handled in the Catholic Church.

I simply question whether the many annulments granted in North America might not be a stretching of the way the Catholic Church has set down the rules for annulments - and I’m not the first person to raise this question. The fact that certain dioceses handle annulments in this way does not mean His Holiness the Pope would approve of it and he has gone on record as saying he feels there are too many annulments granted.

Within the bounds of debate, Roman Catholics here have taken the opportunity to try and show how the RC Church is somehow “better” or follows the ancient discipline more closely because it has annulments and not church divorces. THAT is the point I’m addressing - whether in practice the Roman Catholic handling of annulments today really differs in any which way from the praxis of the Orthodox Church in this regard.

If observation of the practices that I know first-hand in this regard is criticism - that is how you are taking it. And if you believe that a psychologist’s report is sufficient “proof” to disqualify a sacramental marriage from ever having existed . . . then I believe this is simply wrong based on the tradition and faith of the Catholic Church. It is something that needs to be purged from within the Church.

As Pope Julius II once said, “It is not the confession of sin that pollutes, it is the sin itself.”

Happy Easter.

Alex

 

[Serap]

We are all sinners. We are all human.

Wanner, how would you suggest to evangelize a cafeteria Catholic back to the Tiber?

 

[wanner47]

We are all sinners. We are all human.

Wanner, how would you suggest to evangelize a cafeteria Catholic back to the Tiber?

Search and Rescue by Patrick Madrid

I’d also send them over to the Little Catholic Bubble blog.

 

[wanner47]

Search and Rescue by Patrick Madrid

I’d also send them over to the Little Catholic Bubble blog.

 

[estesbob]

We are all sinners. We are all human.

Wanner, how would you suggest to evangelize a cafeteria Catholic back to the Tiber?

By telling them the truth, of course.

 

[estesbob]

We are all sinners. We are all human.

Wanner, how would you suggest to evangelize a cafeteria Catholic back to the Tiber?

“Preach the gospel always, If necessary use words.” ~ St. Francis of Assisi.