Should Catholics practice Kosher laws?

[otjm]

I know both dairy and cattle farmers; and none of them are keeping in cramped conditions, bad food, and no sunlight.

bad food equals either bad milk or poor growth of meat. No sane farmer would do that, and the insane ones are not farming.

Cramped conditions needs to be spelled out. All of both dairy and cattle farmers in my area have their animals out on pasture every day.

No sunlight - see above.

 

[BornInMarch]

I can’t speak for your friends, but there are reports of the things I described occurring in Intensive Animal Farming.

To use chicken farming as an example, one method of storing the chickens is with battery cages.

 

[delefin]

I understand the topic, modern slaughterhouses are cruel, so we should adopt kosher ones ( nevermind that they come under much more scrutiny for cruelty)

Nope. That is not the topic. I’ve told you what the topic was more than 3x in every post so far. You are not reading it apparently.

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

I dont think avoiding meat that has been mistreated should be introduced as doctrine.

For one, it would be extremely difficult to determine if the specific cut one is eating was one such animal, so determination of fault is hard.

Second, it would be an easy stumbling block for people suffering from scrupilosity. Especially so seeing as one could hardly be expected to trace the source of every single meal.

Third, as cruelty to animals is already discouraged, it makes no sense to transfer the culpability onto the consumer when there is no reasonable expectation to say they participated in said cruelty.

Fourth, it honestly isn’t a widespread problem. Seeing the footage is shocking, but there is no reason to suspect that those experiences are universal. No I’m not claiming any statistics, but I am asking you for further sources that prove that animal cruelty is widespread.

Fifth, animals are not rational beings, and to upend the distribution network for their sake is unreasonable considering the massive amount of harm it would people, who are rational beings.

Sixth, even if doctrine would or could be introduced-to say that doctrine would be either the spiritual successor or direct inheritor of the Kosher laws would be divisive and problematic at best, and dishonest and heretical at worst.

Seventh, seeing as there is already a moral incentive to discourage animal cruelty, what good would establishing a dietary doctrine do?

 

[meltzerboy2]

And also, as it is to the point of the discussion, do we know Jewish slaughtering rituals are actually practiced in all slaughtering houses in which the meat is deemed kosher? Was there not once a documentary about inhumane slaughtering practices in such facilities?

 

[PetraG]

And also, as it is to the point of the discussion, do we know Jewish slaughtering rituals are actually practiced in all slaughtering houses in which the meat is deemed kosher? Was there not once a documentary about inhumane slaughtering practices in such facilities?

If we want certain animal husbandry practices to be required, we ought to just require them. Christians do not need to keep kosher to do that.

 

[PetraG]

I have this way of sounding like I’m issuing a correction when I’m actually adding on to a comment.

 

[PetraG]

As far as I know, kosher slaughter rules only have to do with the slaughtering procedure. Besides that, the rules have to do with which animals are acceptable to eat and handling the meat to remove blood. It does not automatically imply that animals were humanely-raised or any of the rest.

 

[Allegra]

Dude, you don’t know that a cow is a female, but you are an expert in humane butchery? I appreciate your desire that animals be treated without cruelty and that is in line with Church teaching, however, I think you need to do a bit more research before making statements like everyone should go back to Kosher laws. Also, I’ve never been as concerned with how animals are killed for food as how they lived. I personally am far more concerned about the cruelty involved in the living conditions for animals raised for meat.

 

[delefin]

Dude, you don’t know that a cow is a female, but you are an expert in humane butchery?

English isn’t my first language. We don’t have distinctions between cows, bulls, and steers. They all translate to the same word. Usually the general term would be the one we are normally a custom with. Also, your pointing out of “irony” of not knowing the right animal names and knowing what butchery is humane is highly absurd logic.

I’m not an expert on dogs, but I can tell if that boiling dogs alive is cruel. Do you need to be an expert on specific species classifications/names to know when it’s being slaughtered cruelty. Seriously? …

 

[Allegra]

But animals aren’t routinely being boiled alive and where they are, it’s not by people who are likely to be persuaded by Catholic doctrine anyway. And you were trying to argue that Kosher methods of slaughter are more humane than the typical method, despite the fact that poster with experience in raising animals and explained why it isn’t. And yes, knowing something about the nature of an animal certainly helps to determine what pain and distress it experiences. Most people who raise and slaughter animals aren’t sadistic. You should give them some credit and listen to them as much as videos that take the extreme and make out as if they are common place.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree and have flagged both the post with the videos and the entire thread.
This isn’t a reasonable discussion, this is a case of someone with an agenda who is not listening to posters who have experience with the subject matter and/or other reasonable views.

 

[delefin]

But animals aren’t routinely being boiled alive and where they are, it’s not by people who are likely to be persuaded by Catholic doctrine anyway. And you were trying to argue that Kosher methods of slaughter are more humane than the typical method, despite the fact that poster with experience in raising animals and explained why it isn’t. And yes, knowing something about the nature of an animal certainly helps to determine what pain and distress it experiences. Most people who raise and slaughter animals aren’t sadistic. You should give them some credit and listen to them as much as videos that take the extreme and make out as if they are common place.

But what if a christian wants to try exotic food and decides to fly to places that boil live dogs such as Wuhan? Is it a sin for the christian to eat the dog with full knowledge of how it was killed?

I do think Kosher is factually humane because it was instructed by God to the Jews. Since it’s from him, then it should be fact. I am ok for modern day ways such as the stun gun, but I am interested to seeing a credible source on it being 100% effective. And Tafan2 gave nothing but info towards a misunderstanding what the topic is and even then it was backed with fake statistic (99.9%) to ignoring points.

You are acting out of tribalism. You see one guy vs a number, so you think based on the majority that I am wrong. But not one of them still knows what my topic is.

 

[Allegra]

If a Christian wants to travel across the world in order to participate in the torture of a dog, then I would say, yes, that’s a sin.

 

[delefin]

This is what my entire argument is. I never said anything about “stop eating meat”, I’m not a vegan.
I didn’t post the farm videos to argue about farms being inhumane. I’m getting replies from people arguing with me about this but they are misrepresenting me.

 

[graciew]

I ve seen one of these, not that extreme but very poorly handled . It didn’t last long. It was closed.
As I have seen one very well handled vis a vis quality of the establishment, production practices and so on. I bought from that one.
There are laws and regulations in place and we either help by not buying or denouncing what we know doesn’t follow regulations. Or we do both…When we get to know or realize what is going on.