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Stu
Guest
Think about Who “has your back”!
- Status
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trailblazer
Guest
Collars show the presense of the Church in society. A presense I saw frequently as a child by running into priests and nuns. Seeing them would remind be of my faith, and at least for a few minutes I focused on that.
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Brendan
Guest
It’s part of the job of every Deacon. There is an exorcism as part of every Baptism using the Rite of Baptism
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GodBlessJoanie
Guest
Deacons should wear the appropriate garb during Mass but no collar during the rest of the week. Remember that during the week they are in the secular business community and are NOT fully ordained as Priests. The collar is reserved for Priests.
Blessings,
Joanie
Blessings,
Joanie
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Brendan
Guest
Actually Joanie, it isn’t.
Go into any Latin rite seminary and you will see the seminarians wearing the Roman collar.
The Roman collar is for those in clerical status (per Canon Law )and the . That includes Deacons.
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EJ79
Guest
I’d be happier if we could get them to all wear DALMATICS regularly during the Sacred Liturgy - the vestment proper to the diaconate!!
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carattinij
Guest
As a reply to Joanie’s message, deacons are fully ordained, not to the priesthood but for service. The deacon is ordained in the first level of Holy Orders. That makes the deacon a fully ordained minister in Holy Orders, not just partly ordained. Thus the deacon is an ordained cleric and has the right to wear the collar.
Code:
Peace to all,
Deacon Juan Carattini
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deaconswife
Guest
Amen! :clapping: Why do people find it so hard to understand that permanent deacons along with their transitional counterparts have received the sacrament of Holy Orders. I can’t tell you the number of people who have said to me that my husband is a “lay deacon” because he has a wife and family. They always look a bit like a deer in the headlights when I explain that he is in the clerical state like our priest but in a different manner. I think the thing that confuses most people is that they associate Holy Orders with celibacy and cannot understand how a married man could be ordained. In fact, most of the people are quite surprised when they find out that if I shuffle off to Buffalo in the future that my husband will lead a celibate life.
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carattinij
Guest
I just came from the National Hispanic deacon’s conference which was held in San Juan Puerto Rico. It was a wonderful experience and I had to get on my knees and thank the Lord for this beautiful vocation. But I did notice one thing, most deacons in Puerto Rico do wear the collar. The only difference is that most of them do not wear the black clerical shirt, they where gray, beige, or white. During the conference, clerical shirts were on sale and I was tempted to buy one. I wish that we were allowed to wear them in my home diocese, but as it stands, our bishop does not allow it. I hope that some day he as a change of heart and allow us deacons to wear the collar which is our right to according to canon law.
peace to all,
Dcn. Juan Carattini
peace to all,
Dcn. Juan Carattini
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Brendan
Guest
Deacon Juan,
Does a bishop even have that right. Canon law give that right to the National Synod. The last the US Conference spoke on that was the 3rd Plenary Council of Baltimore, where they affirmed the right and obligation of the clergy to wear the roman collar.
The obligation was removed by the 1983 Code of Canon Law,
You have the right to wear a collar, and an Ordinary who says otherwise is not acting within his authority.
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cameron_lansing
Guest
No, at least if we’re speaking about the Roman Catholic Church. I am somewhat confused about these assertions, since I think earlier posters had already clarified the point and correctly cited the canon law of the Church as well as other documents pertinent to the diaconate.
The particular legislation of 3rd Plenary Baltimore which you referenced no longer has legal force in this matter, and the Code of Canon law does not speak of wearing ecclesiastical garb as a right but rather an obligation.
As canon 284 provides, “Clerics are to wear suitable ecclesiastical garb in accord with the norms issued by the conference of bishops and in accord with legitimate local custom.” Canon 288 reads that “Permanent deacons are not bound by the prescriptions of cann. 284, 285, §§ 3 and 4, 286, (and) 287, §2, unless particular law determines otherwise.” (1983 CLSA translation)
Puerto Rico has its own Episcopal Conference, and it may have issued norms, but I do not have a copy of them.
However, the Episcopal Conference of the United States and the Virgin Islands has now set down norms in The National Directory for the Formation, Ministry and Life of Permanent Deacons in the United States (promulgated 2004).
The text on this reads: "The Code of Canon Law does not oblige permanent deacons to wear an ecclesiastical garb. Further, because they are more prominent and active in secular professions and society, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops specifies that permanent deacons should resemble the lay faithful in dress and matters of lifestyle. Each ordinary should, however, determine and promulgate any exceptions to this law, as well as specify the appropriate clerical attire. "
So I do not understand the assertion about an ordinary “not acting within his authority.” It is well within the authority of the diocesan bishop.
As a canon lawyer, I am also not aware that “Canon law give
If folks want to debate the appropriateness of Church regulations, that’s fine. Good points have been made on all sides. But let’s be clear about who has the authority to make the regulations. Let’s actually read the legal texts of the Church and quote them.
While my comments are about the law of the Church, I’ve been a deacon for 15 years, and have never quite understood the press for the Roman collar. I was even a diocesan director of deacons for about 13 years and never understood the hubbub. The Christian faithful and others I encounter in ministry seem to have no problem identifying me as a public, ordained and official minister. Whenever the law exempts me from an obligation, I’m happy.
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cameron_lansing
Guest
This was meant to express disagreement with the prior post and not to suggest bishops lacked the right to regulate clerical attire. My apology for the lack of clarity.
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carattinij
Guest
I agree with you deacon, but I have to point out something, the first time I did a wake service, the family of the deceased felt offended because they felt that apparently they were not “good enough” to have a priest at their loved ones wake service. When I started the service I explained who I was and what we as deacons do. The family still felt offended. At my second wake service, I again explained what I did as a deacon and the functions. It’s as though I was apologizing for being a deacon. I now wear an alb and a stole so the family can see that I am an official ordained minister of the church. Therefore I really believe that it would be much easier if we would be allowed to wear the collar in these situations. But that is only my opinion. I am not the bishop of my diocese and although I feel that we should wear the collar I respect the bishop’s authority since at ordination as a deacon I made a promise of obedience.
Peace to all,
Dcn. Juan Carattini
Peace to all,
Dcn. Juan Carattini
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cameron_lansing
Guest
Brother Deacon Juan,
There’s lots of room for well reasoned positions such as the ones which you and others express. Deacons run into all sorts of circumstances, and have different experiences. I’m just pointing out the law.
Since the Vigil of the Deceased is an official liturgy (that’s a redundant term, for sure), I used to recommend that deacons consider vesting for it. I’m pleased this works, and commend you for your respectful attitude toward your bishop.
On a case by case basis, it may be useful for a bishop to authorize the collar for those who customarily minister in prisons or hospitals, of course. We “compete” with the self-ordained who are doing the same from churches located in the the back of their trunks.
But you never know what’s going to happen.
I asked a young deacon shortly after his ordination how his first vigil went. He said, at the end, he asked those present if anyone wished to offer some words about the deceased. She had been a murder victim whose body was recovered after four years in an industrial freezer. Her brother stood up and offered “$5000 for the s** of a ***** who did this.” Our young deacon went on to discuss the justice and mercy of God. I was very proud.
Many blessings up and gratitude for your service to God’s people (and the same to the deacons and candidates who are on these boards). Even more to our brides.
There’s lots of room for well reasoned positions such as the ones which you and others express. Deacons run into all sorts of circumstances, and have different experiences. I’m just pointing out the law.
Since the Vigil of the Deceased is an official liturgy (that’s a redundant term, for sure), I used to recommend that deacons consider vesting for it. I’m pleased this works, and commend you for your respectful attitude toward your bishop.
On a case by case basis, it may be useful for a bishop to authorize the collar for those who customarily minister in prisons or hospitals, of course. We “compete” with the self-ordained who are doing the same from churches located in the the back of their trunks.
But you never know what’s going to happen.
I asked a young deacon shortly after his ordination how his first vigil went. He said, at the end, he asked those present if anyone wished to offer some words about the deceased. She had been a murder victim whose body was recovered after four years in an industrial freezer. Her brother stood up and offered “$5000 for the s** of a ***** who did this.” Our young deacon went on to discuss the justice and mercy of God. I was very proud.
Many blessings up and gratitude for your service to God’s people (and the same to the deacons and candidates who are on these boards). Even more to our brides.
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carattinij
Guest
Thank you deacon for your words. I appreciate your insight. I believe that there is an exception to every rule as far as wearing the collar is concerned. But as I mentioned before, I go by what my bishop says for he is my “boss.” And I do respect him very much. He is very good to us deacons in our diocese. I wish you all the best in your ministry and hope that maybe someday we can meet up and share our experiences in ministry.
Code:
God Bless,
Dcn. Juan- Status