Should Government Take over Health Care?

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gakroeger said:
Good post…

Right on target.

Thank you…
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Sorry but please remember that Pope Leo XIII wrote in his encyclical Rerum Novarum,
“Whenever the general interest or any particular class suffers, or it is threatened with evils which can in no other way be met, the public authority must step in to meet them.”
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Futher:…
Whenever the general interest or any particular class suffers, or is threatened with harm, which can in no other way be met or prevented, the public authority must step in to deal with it. Now, it is to the interest of the community, as well as of the individual, that peace and good order should be maintained"
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Rights must be religiously respected wherever they exist, and it is the duty of the public authority to prevent and to punish injury, and to protect every one in the possession of his own. Still, when there is question of defending the rights of individuals, the poor and badly off have a claim to especial consideration. The richer class have many ways of shielding themselves, and stand less in need of help from the State; whereas the mass of the poor have no resources of their own to fall back upon, and must chiefly depend upon the assistance of the State. And it is for this reason that wage-earners, since they mostly belong in the mass of the needy, should be specially cared for and protected by the government.
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Being that the government public insurance bills out there suggest that we as an indvidual will be able to choose our own doctors and which hospitals we can go to the government is not interferring with us in our rights but only protecting our rights in making sure we have affordable and equal healthcare.
There was an article written in America magazine which Michael Seant Winters wrote:
Subsidiarity is a Thomistic notion that seeks to answer the question that all public policies must face, namely, what level of society should treat a given issue. Further, subsidiarity suggests that issues be treated at the lowest level possible, that is, at the level closest to the individual. So, families should do what they can, neighborhoods should pick up the slack, the free market should adjudicate the distribution of goods and services, local government should take the lead on most issues and the federal government should only get involved when its unique reach and power, specifically the taxing power, is required. This part of subsidiarity is ably repeated in the Kansas City text. But, the text does not grasp the moral obligation of the higher levels of government. As Pope Leo XIII wrote in his 1892 encyclical Rerum Novarum, “Whenever the general interest or any particular class suffers, or it is threatened with evils which can in no other way be met, the public authority must step in to meet them.”
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Pope Benedict noted in Caritas in Veritate,
“The principle of subsidiarity must remain closely linked to the principle of solidarity, since the former without the latter gives way to social privatism, while the latter without the former gives way to paternalist social assistance that is demeaning to those in need.”
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Remember folks HR3200 is not a government take over of health care but an offering of public option for insurance. You can choose your own doctors unlike most insurance plans which dictate which doctors you can go to in order to get coverage.
 
Current health bill unacceptable, Catholic bishops say

Senior Catholic bishops are threatening to oppose the health care bill under consideration in Congress if lawmakers don’t make significant reforms regarding federally funded abortions and other issues.

Full text of article
 
I realize everyone has their own particular limits -but how far should we let it go as Catholics when it comes to giving the govornment control of health care?

Is there a line that Catholics should not cross when it comes to allowing govornment size to increase, or is patient care all that matters?

I understand that Catholic Social Teaching warns us against big govornment ! I only want to be a good Catholic, and I act politically according to my interpretations… I oppose govornment take overs at all costs period !
 
I realize everyone has their own particular limits -but how far should we let it go as Catholics when it comes to giving the govornment control of health care?
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Well, the Catholics in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain, all seem to live with the government involved in their health care systems without a theological problem. So I’d say it’s OK to consider the options here.

What kind of health care system does the Vatican have btw?

Is a Catholic in France sinning because they like their health care system?🤷

At any rate, now Now NOW is the time for all parties to speak up. I am glad the US Bishops are doing so. I support what the Bishops are saying. I also support the implementation of a public option for health insurance and coverage for all Americans.
 
Ella said:
Well, the Catholics in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain, all seem to live with the government involved in their health care systems without a theological problem. So I’d say it’s OK to consider the options here.

What kind of health care system does the Vatican have btw?

Is a Catholic in France sinning because they like their health care system?🤷

At any rate, now Now NOW is the time for all parties to speak up. I am glad the US Bishops are doing so. I support what the Bishops are saying. I also support the implementation of a public option for health insurance and coverage for all Americans.
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Did you read what the Bishops are saying?
 
US government health care WILL include abortion. That dooms the entire bill. No Catholic can morally justify “health care” as long as the blood of babies is dripping on it.

Folks, what supporters are missing here is that the amount of health care will decrease under the federal government. The bill does not increase the number of doctors, hospitals or clinics. It forces a diversion of resources from the provision of health care to satisfying government regulations and documentation. **It is not about health care, it is about new power for the federal government. **

It will decrease health care. How is that “compassionate”???
 
po18guy said:
US government health care WILL include abortion. That dooms the entire bill. No Catholic can morally justify “health care” as long as the blood of babies is dripping on it.

Folks, what supporters are missing here is that the amount of health care will decrease under the federal government. The bill does not increase the number of doctors, hospitals or clinics. It forces a diversion of resources from the provision of health care to satisfying government regulations and documentation. **It is not about health care, it is about new power for the federal government. **

It will decrease health care. How is that “compassionate”???
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For the record. Seeing the current climate I have given up on health totally. Being unemployed, theres nothing for me. When governemnt runs it, its incompetent, when privatve sector runs it, it severely corrupt. It has totally become an economics, all about the money and the heck with well being debate. The line between need and want can’t be agreed upon. Health care is not supposed to be a business in the traditional personal gain sense of the word. When this topic gets debated a monetary value defacto wise gets put on the value of life, which is diabolic. With the choices out there I want something is most likely to get me the care that satisfies my wife’s as well as my needs the best while punishing the insurance companies the harshest., also punishing ambulence chasing lawyers harsh also. The people who debate this from a conservative economics point of view, use talking points from an 1800 economics text book. That doesn’t apply here. We have a floating currency that is manipulated by insiders, who create money out of nothing almost on mere whim. I have 2 conditions that while not apparently doing anything malignent to me right now, could change course at any time and I would have to be under care of a specicialist that I have no way of affording. But hey, if I pass on at least I don’t have to worry about economics getting in the way of everything anymore.
 
aspawloski4th said:
For the record. Seeing the current climate I have given up on health totally. Being unemployed, theres nothing for me. When governemnt runs it, its incompetent, when privatve sector runs it, it severely corrupt. It has totally become an economics, all about the money and the heck with well being debate. The line between need and want can’t be agreed upon. Health care is not supposed to be a business in the traditional personal gain sense of the word. When this topic gets debated a monetary value defacto wise gets put on the value of life, which is diabolic. With the choices out there I want something is most likely to get me the care that satisfies my wife’s as well as my needs the best while punishing the insurance companies the harshest., also punishing ambulence chasing lawyers harsh also. The people who debate this from a conservative economics point of view, use talking points from an 1800 economics text book. That doesn’t apply here. We have a floating currency that is manipulated by insiders, who create money out of nothing almost on mere whim. I have 2 conditions that while not apparently doing anything malignent to me right now, could change course at any time and I would have to be under care of a specicialist that I have no way of affording. But hey, if I pass on at least I don’t have to worry about economics getting in the way of everything anymore.
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You are not alone in your plight. I cannot help but think that medicine will take measures to re-invent itself, rolling back the clock as much as can be. However, why should a doctor treat us as long as we can sue his or her socks off for the slightest transgression or sign of human fallibility. Medicine has not gotten itself into this mess without help. Yes, there is money in it - both for plaintiffs and their attorneys. Yet, the “health care” bill has no provisions for caps on punitive damages, allowing juries to award obscene amounts.

The thrust of the “health care” bill is governmental power and population control via abortion and end of life measures. The bill contains no health care, so how on earth can it be called “health care”? The big lie once again, and people are eating it up. Lord, have mercy!
 
po18guy said:
You are not alone in your plight. I cannot help but think that medicine will take measures to re-invent itself, rolling back the clock as much as can be. However, why should a doctor treat us as long as we can sue his or her socks off for the slightest transgression or sign of human fallibility. Medicine has not gotten itself into this mess without help. Yes, there is money in it - both for plaintiffs and their attorneys. Yet, the “health care” bill has no provisions for caps on punitive damages, allowing juries to award obscene amounts.

The thrust of the “health care” bill is governmental power and population control via abortion and end of life measures. The bill contains no health care, so how on earth can it be called “health care”? The big lie once again, and people are eating it up. Lord, have mercy!
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AMEN

The single greatest thing the government could do for health care is “tort reform”. Unfortunately that is not going to happen with the Dem’s having control of congress and the White House. They are all lawyers and the legal lobby has them by the throat.
 
Ella said:
Well, the Catholics in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, Spain, all seem to live with the government involved in their health care systems without a theological problem. So I’d say it’s OK to consider the options here. .
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I dont know… Do those countries allow free abortions? I know the U.N. as a whole for whatever its worth, has no objection towards abortion, and seems like most of Europe (especially the U.K.) is becoming the same way.
Ella said:
What kind of health care system does the Vatican have btw?.
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The Vatican’s policies are all 100% God based. There is no other govornment in the world completely based on the word of God. And its Catholic… 👍 So I trust them (the Vatican). I sadly dont know if I can trust the leaders of our nation (America) as many politicians openly reject the word of God.

So as you can see, there are trust problems here. Who can place their trust in this increasingly Godless Govornment? Although they do seem to work toward care of the poor. 🤷 I dont understand… I’m confused… Am I being tricked somehow?
 
TEPO said:
So as you can see, there are trust problems here. Who can place their trust in this increasingly Godless Govornment? Although they do seem to work toward care of the poor. 🤷 I dont understand… I’m confused… Am I being tricked somehow?
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Except for foreign invasion and lack of taxes, government has never solved a single problem. Our president is a lawyer who has surrounded himself with lawyers. The “hell care” bill has not one bit of medicine in it, but a lot of poison in flowery language. As to the poor, billions have been spent since 1965 in the “war on poverty”. Result: increased poverty and utter destruction of the inner city family structure.

Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem.
 
Jenny Fritts and baby girl Hailie
24 years old, Chicago, IL

Midge Hough writes:

Jenny our 24 year old daughter in-law and unborn baby died because she could not afford health insurance. In the richest country in the world our Jenny died. When she became ill she went to a for-profit hospital who was required to see her but they sent her away saying she had a cold, maybe a touch of bronchitis. 24 hours later she was much worse and my son was desperate. Sean took Jenny to the other hospital in town and lied saying they had insurance. She was examined and found to be very sick. She had respiratory failure, double pneumonia and sepsis. By that night she was on life support where she remained for 55 days, fighting for her life and the life of her baby. Jenny died 7 weeks ago. She leaves behind a 2 year old daughter who will never know her mother and her husband who is devastated. Jenny did not have to die. If there had been a public option Jenny would have been able to afford the care she so deserved. It’s too late for Jenny but not for the countless others still out there fighting.

namesofthedead.com/story.php?id=3090
 
josephdavid said:
Jenny Fritts and baby girl Hailie
24 years old, Chicago, IL

Midge Hough writes:

Jenny our 24 year old daughter in-law and unborn baby died because she could not afford health insurance. In the richest country in the world our Jenny died. When she became ill she went to a for-profit hospital who was required to see her but they sent her away saying she had a cold, maybe a touch of bronchitis. 24 hours later she was much worse and my son was desperate. Sean took Jenny to the other hospital in town and lied saying they had insurance. She was examined and found to be very sick. She had respiratory failure, double pneumonia and sepsis. By that night she was on life support where she remained for 55 days, fighting for her life and the life of her baby. Jenny died 7 weeks ago. She leaves behind a 2 year old daughter who will never know her mother and her husband who is devastated. Jenny did not have to die. If there had been a public option Jenny would have been able to afford the care she so deserved. It’s too late for Jenny but not for the countless others still out there fighting.

namesofthedead.com/story.php?id=3090
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Your story, no matter how tragic and gut wrenching, is a sign of malpractice - not of denial of care. Please explain how a rationing system that draws from a pool of LESS health care resources would have helped in any way.

How many aborted babies are worth an adult life? How much malignant neglect of the aged and marginalized does it cost so that someone else may live? We have been lied to and we are being lied to about this bill.

“Universal health care”, “universal access”, “public option”: It is all the BIG LIE! This bill REDUCES health care. What are we missing here? A Christian cannot support “health care”, no matter the good it might do, if it has the blood of innocents in it. The concept of “government health care” is frightening. Ask a disabled vet.

But, “something must be done!!!” Yes! Get the for-profit lawyers out of health care.
 
po18guy said:
Your story, no matter how tragic and gut wrenching, is a sign of malpractice - not of denial of care. Please explain how a rationing system that draws from a pool of LESS health care resources would have helped in any way.

How many aborted babies are worth an adult life? How much malignant neglect of the aged and marginalized does it cost so that someone else may live? We have been lied to and we are being lied to about this bill.

“Universal health care”, “universal access”, “public option”: It is all the BIG LIE! This bill REDUCES health care. What are we missing here? A Christian cannot support “health care”, no matter the good it might do, if it has the blood of innocents in it. The concept of “government health care” is frightening. Ask a disabled vet.

But, “something must be done!!!” Yes! Get the for-profit lawyers out of health care.
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Ditto and Amen…
 
po18guy said:
Your story, no matter how tragic and gut wrenching, is a sign of malpractice - not of denial of care. Please explain how a rationing system that draws from a pool of LESS health care resources would have helped in any way.

How many aborted babies are worth an adult life? How much malignant neglect of the aged and marginalized does it cost so that someone else may live? We have been lied to and we are being lied to about this bill.

“Universal health care”, “universal access”, “public option”: It is all the BIG LIE! This bill REDUCES health care. What are we missing here? A Christian cannot support “health care”, no matter the good it might do, if it has the blood of innocents in it. The concept of “government health care” is frightening. Ask a disabled vet.

But, “something must be done!!!” Yes! Get the for-profit lawyers out of health care.
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Show me legislation this indicates rationing? Also do we not have rationing now by these for profit health insurance agencies? The answer to my second question is yes.

The malpractice lawsuits are being addressed but is only part of the problem why healthcare is so expensive.
 
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