Should Government Take over Health Care?

[po18guy]

Please show me direct quotes from the proposed legislation in the House and in the Senate which specifically says abortion will be federally funded by Public Insurance Option or Medicare -E.

Look, if you support abortion, just say so! We are adults here. The problem I have is when you use the Catholic name in combination with your apparent support for abortion. The USCCB has conducted its own investigation and has determined to a moral certainty that the current versions of the “health care” bill contain provisions for or funding of abortion. If you persist in your support of this legislation, you are knowingly involving yourself to some degree in grave sin. I tell you this out of concern for your eternal soul.

You have heard of ACORN and of our President’s long time association with it, as well as other “community organizing” groups, right?

ACORN is a subversive “Alinsky” group. Do a little reading. They achieve their goals through deception. They even duped the USCCB into providing “social justice” money that was then funneled into, you guessed it, abortion. All USCCB funding of ACORN has been stopped. cealed in the bill. our President is associated with a known subversive organization, and fellow subversives.

Did you know as many Americans go out of the country for prescriptions and surgeries? Also can you show me legislation in Canada or any other country which they are proposing to scrap their current healthcare system? I would be interested to see.

Red herring! This has nothing to do with drugs, but rather with the direct, active killing of the unborn in currently proposed legislation. How can you rationalize the blood of innocents?

 

[po18guy]

U.S. bishops launch grassroots effort to fight for Catholic concerns on health care

Good luck with this! Funny how any other time, and on any other subject, our liberal brothers and sisters would quote the USCCB position as authoritative. This time however, the Bishops are not to be trusted and it’s party politics as usual.

 

[josephdavid]

Look, if you support abortion, just say so! We are adults here. The problem I have is when you use the Catholic name in combination with your apparent support for abortion. The USCCB has conducted its own investigation and has determined to a moral certainty that the current versions of the “health care” bill contain provisions for or funding of abortion. If you persist in your support of this legislation, you are knowingly involving yourself to some degree in grave sin. I tell you this out of concern for your eternal soul.

How sad that you must falsely accuse me of supporting abortion. In fact I never said I did. So please search your concience and try not to lie to prove your point. In fact I applaude the Bishops to keep the issue of abortion in focus. However you yet to prove that there is abortion funding in the Bill. you can only speculate. What you fail to mention is that any Bill made into law that includes federal funding (e.g. public option) is going through HSS department which is specifically forbidden to pass out federal funds for abortion. That is called the Hyde Amendement.

Furthermore it is shameful and pathetic that you continue to 1) falsley accuse some one of supporting abortion but you can not directly quote me anywehre which I have supported abortioin by any means. Curious though, did you vote for McCain? Did you vote for Bush? I would be interested to hear your answer.

And 2) It is also shameful and pathetic that you use this to condem me and say if I do not support your political ideology that I am commiting sin. It is very sad that you would use some one’s salvation as hostage to support your political ideology. I feel sorry for you and I will pray for you. I feel sorry for the hatred in your heart.

You have heard of ACORN and of our President’s long time association with it, as well as other “community organizing” groups, right?

ACORN is a subversive “Alinsky” group. Do a little reading. They achieve their goals through deception. They even duped the USCCB into providing “social justice” money that was then funneled into, you guessed it, abortion. All USCCB funding of ACORN has been stopped. cealed in the bill. our President is associated with a known subversive organization, and fellow subversives.

This is not about ACORN. We all know how corrupt they are and the USCCB made a mistake of helping them.

Red herring! This has nothing to do with drugs, but rather with the direct, active killing of the unborn in currently proposed legislation. How can you rationalize the blood of innocents? Have you no heart?

Again lying and twisting words to discredit my position on the Public Option. I truly feel sorry for you. Why must you lie to prove your point? Why not an honest debate like most of here?

But yet you have not anwered my questions. I pray for you.

 

[josephdavid]

From most polls that ask about it, everyone globally is always pretty grumpy with their healthcare, however there is no public outcry to ‘be like the USA’ when it comes to healthcare, they all just want improvements of their public solutions.

Thank you Panthia. Your point was put very well.

 

[Lynxdk]

Why do Canadians come here in droves for competent medical care? Ask one!

I know a lot of Canadians, and I’ve asked them, and they’ve talked about, their health care system, and I’ve yet to talk to one who would exchange our system for theirs.

 

[gakroeger]

Please show me direct quotes from the proposed legislation in the House and in the Senate which specifically says abortion will be federally funded by Public Insurance Option or Medicare -E.

Have you researched this issue at all? Are you not aware of the lengths the proposers of this legislation have gone to in their attempts to bury this abortion funding so it slips through? And you expect someone to quote verbatim from the bill that it will fund abortion? As was explained by po18guy even the USCCB which has been actively supporting a government health care plan has realized that these pro abortion politicians are attempting to push through legislation that will not only fund abortion but reduce benefits for seniors who have supported Medicare for 50 years with zero benefits. Wake up…… Look at all sides not just the left.

You accuse po18guy of political ideology, it appears to me that you are the one with the political ideology.

 

[gakroeger]

I know a lot of Canadians, and I’ve asked them, and they’ve talked about, their health care system, and I’ve yet to talk to one who would exchange our system for theirs.

I wonder what age and to what extent the Canadians you know use the health care system in Canada. I also know a lot of Canadians (mostly seniors who use the system) here in Florida. They have horror stories of the long waits for major surgeries, most get and pay for their medical care here in Florida.

 

[po18guy]

How sad that you must falsely accuse me of supporting abortion. In fact I never said I did. So please search your concience and try not to lie to prove your point. In fact I applaude the Bishops to keep the issue of abortion in focus. However you yet to prove that there is abortion funding in the Bill. you can only speculate. What you fail to mention is that any Bill made into law that includes federal funding (e.g. public option) is going through HSS department which is specifically forbidden to pass out federal funds for abortion. That is called the Hyde Amendement.

Furthermore it is shameful and pathetic that you continue to 1) falsley accuse some one of supporting abortion but you can not directly quote me anywehre which I have supported abortioin by any means. Curious though, did you vote for McCain? Did you vote for Bush? I would be interested to hear your answer.

And 2) It is also shameful and pathetic that you use this to condem me and say if I do not support your political ideology that I am commiting sin. It is very sad that you would use some one’s salvation as hostage to support your political ideology. I feel sorry for you and I will pray for you. I feel sorry for the hatred in your heart.

You have heard of ACORN and of our President’s long time association with it, as well as other “community organizing” groups, right?

This is not about ACORN. We all know how corrupt they are and the USCCB made a mistake of helping them.

Again lying and twisting words to discredit my position on the Public Option. I truly feel sorry for you. Why must you lie to prove your point? Why not an honest debate like most of here?

But yet you have not anwered my questions. I pray for you.

Thank you for your prayers. Since when did asking a question, or simply stating “if” become an accusation? Calm down! My brother in Christ, please ask your Priest or Bishop for guidance on this issue. NO ONE is condemning health care. The Bishops are condemning the abortion that is hidden in it. You are currently 180º off of Church teaching on this particular issue. I am not judging - only God does that. But, when a brother strays from revealed truth (this applies especially to me), we must be corrected.

 

[po18guy]

Simply put: if you hate American health care, let the government take it over and bankrupt it. It will stimulate the economy as far as international travel goes.

We have a dichotomy here among those who cannot separate the CURRENT fatally flawed government plan from the CONCEPT of universal health care access, which is what the Bishops are asking for.

 

[Lynxdk]

I wonder what age and to what extent the Canadians you know use the health care system in Canada. I also know a lot of Canadians (mostly seniors who use the system) here in Florida. They have horror stories of the long waits for major surgeries, most get and pay for their medical care here in Florida.

Ages 20’s to 50’s. I’ve yet to hear a horror story. One close friend in her 40’s in particular is disabled and she’s always been able to get the care she needs in a timely manner. I also know people in England who enjoy similar care. They get what they need when they need it.

I think that’s great that the people you know can afford to pay for their own care in the fashion that most pleases them, more power to them… What about the great many people with ~no~ healthcare?

I won’t even try to count the number of times I’ve had to fill out free care forms when going to the emergency room for asthma attacks when I was young… I couldn’t afford the prescriptions they gave me, so I’d often be back again that week, filling out another form… The hospitals don’t just eat the costs, so who do you think pays for that? And do you think it would have been cheaper if I could have had some form of universal coverage that would pay for controller meds rather than frequent emergency room visits?

And that’s just the financial aspect. I’m ignoring the quality of life aspects because I’m such a stubborn mule about it I’d often try waiting for it to pass (which it sometimes did).

Mother: “you’re turning blue! You need to go now!”
Me: “nah… I’m fine…”
Mother: “I’m calling an ambulance.”

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Simmer down. Stay on topic. Stop personal remarks.
Or the thread will be closed.
Thank you.

 

[josephdavid]

Thank you for your prayers. Since when did asking a question, or simply stating “if” become an accusation? Calm down! My brother in Christ, please ask your Priest or Bishop for guidance on this issue. NO ONE is condemning health care. The Bishops are condemning the abortion that is hidden in it. You are currently 180º off of Church teaching on this particular issue. I am not judging - only God does that. But, when a brother strays from revealed truth (this applies especially to me), we must be corrected.

I have asked a priest the same question I am asking you. Where in any of the Bills does it say that abortion will be funded? He could not find recall seeing it.

However, I could find were Congress /President approved the Hyde Law, which they have done every year since it conception in the 70’s, regardless who is President and reagardless who holds the House. The Bill which will become Law and will be enforced by the HHS Department which is strictly forbidden to dole out our money for abortion.

Now, unless some one can give me a direct quote (page number, section) that specifically says abortion will be funded then they have point and I am not voilating my faith to support a public health insurance option.

As I told another lay person in my parish who said the same thing as you (I am 180 off Church Teacing), it that I am only off 180 to him because I do not support his political ideology. Mind you I do not support the Democrats in whole either. I think they are rushing this into Law soley for the votes.

I believe not reinventing the public option but first fix Medicare then offer it to everyone regardless of income status. If you can pay a premium then have it deducted in payroll. If you can not such as the unemployed and the poor then you can get it free.

 

[po18guy]

I have asked a priest the same question I am asking you. Where in any of the Bills does it say that abortion will be funded? He could not find recall seeing it.

So, he scoured all 2,000 +/- pages and tracked the path of the money that’s in each of the many provisions? I am frankly incredulous. However, If your Priest ignores his Bishop, he is a blind leader of the blind in this case.

Many here have shown you the truth of the matter. You “seem to” stubbornly refuse to accept it. If you will not believe the nationwide plea from the US Bishops to every parish in this nation, then nothing and no one but the Holy Spirit can convict you of the wrongheadedness of your unwavering support of evil (abortion hidden in the government takeover of your health).

 

[gakroeger]

Ages 20’s to 50’s. I’ve yet to hear a horror story. One close friend in her 40’s in particular is disabled and she’s always been able to get the care she needs in a timely manner. I also know people in England who enjoy similar care. They get what they need when they need it.

I think that’s great that the people you know can afford to pay for their own care in the fashion that most pleases them, more power to them… What about the great many people with ~no~ healthcare?

Exactly my point. These Canadians in Florida are well off enough to pay for their own care over and above the system they pay for in Canada, but what about the Canadians that cannot afford to pay twice and must wait for the Governement to decide when and if they get treatment.

It is interesting to me that virually every person supporting this health care plan on this thread is doing it because of their own personal needs, ignoring the abortion funding and the reduced care for seniors that the proposers readily admit is in the plan.

 

[pathia]

It is interesting to me that virually every person supporting this health care plan on this thread is doing it because of their own personal needs, ignoring the abortion funding and the reduced care for seniors that the proposers readily admit is in the plan.

Medicare is insolvent, it cannot continue as it is right now, how do you propose to lower costs, without um…lowering costs?

 

[Lynxdk]

It is interesting to me that virually every person supporting this health care plan on this thread is doing it because of their own personal needs, ignoring the abortion funding and the reduced care for seniors that the proposers readily admit is in the plan.

Where did you get that I’m supporting it for my own personal needs? I’m supporting it because I understand the needs of the great many people who have ~no~ healthcare because of my own, personal, past experiences. I understand their current needs directly from my own past unmet needs in a very personal way… but I didn’t ~need~ to have my own personal experience with that to understand the needs of others.

In the same sense though, it would seem that some people who are opposed to it are opposing it because of their own personal needs, that they’ll be left with not having the health care that they need for themselves, and not taking into consideration those that need it and have none.

The question in the title of the thread was, basically, should government take over healthcare… in that sense… I would ask should there be public option for people who can’t afford healthcare on their own to have healthcare even if they can’t afford it? My answer to that is, with no reservations, Yes.

 

[TEPO]

In fact, the BEST way to get any kind of reform is to ensure MORE competition. To get the government OUT of the competition because it cannot control its costs [it uses tax money without any inhibition] and because it has police powers to enforce its way.

:clapping: Thank you!

The government will shove everyone out of the way. Why will a 2000 page law on health care that no one has read be an improvement over the competitive system we now have [and that can be improved if government would get out of the way].

:clapping: Thank you!

What we need is free market interstate competition without mandatory mandates.

:clapping: Thank you!

The present insurance companies have offered innovative coverage, but the government has forbidden interstate competition. Difficult cases can be worked with using compassion, but the IRS has outlawed compassion.

:clapping: Thank you!

What has resulted in greater customer satisfaction in airlines, automobiles, telecommunications, television, radio, print media, food, computers, the internet, you name it, is MORE competition. MORE competition works; the government does not work.

:clapping: Thank you!

When the Japanese auto companies and German auto companies entered the U.S. market, they created a whole raft of innovation and competition. People could buy very economical cars like the little Nissans and Toyotas and VW Beetles. [Or BMW’s and Mercedes]. Other companies were forced to compete. Fuel economy got better and mechanical reliability got better.

The same applies to every other field.

:bowdown2: Once again -Thank You!!!

 

[gakroeger]

Here is a link to the USCCB nationwide bulletin insert this weekend…

All Catholics should take this to heart and follow the actions requested by the Bishops…

 

[Lynxdk]

In fact, the BEST way to get any kind of reform is to ensure MORE competition.

As long as healthcare uses a business model, profits will come before people.

 

[aspawloski4th]

As long as healthcare uses a business model, profits will come before people.

Donn’t get too up in arms over him, business is his whole world.