Should homosexual men be allowed to be priests?

[Exalt]

Dear Eemanwe,
You have my admiration and prayers. The fact that you do have same-sex attractions and have chosen to stay celebate gives you the opportunity to become a very holy human being.

May God grant you joy, peace and many blessings.

Shannin

Thank you for your kind words.

I don’t know where some of these temptations have come from … after therapy, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s something I’m just going to have to live with, embracing a life of celibate chasity . The good thing is that I have a great deal of time to spend giving my life in ways that a married person couldn’t! I’ve thought about giving my life in the preisthood, ministry, teaching, or mission work. You know, I wish there were better resources out there for those called to a single life … I’ve always had a dream of being a preist - but it seems that the Church may not be calling me at this time, because of the whole same sex attraction issue. Oh well; I go where I am called. I am obedient to God’s Church, 100%.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

I voted yes.

Whether a priest is homo or heterosexual he is still supposed to be celibate so it would appear to my uninformed mind that the personal struggle to keep his vows would be the same.

I don’t think the seminary should be any more a hot bed of homosexual activity than other single sex institutions like the Army or of the NFL (sorry, bad examples )

Are there monster predator homosexual priests? Sure. Hopefully less than before.
(that study cited above opined that the priesthood may have been a refuge for men who didn’t want to constantly explain why they weren’t married in pre-out-of-the-closet days and that should no longer be so)

But I’m also sure that there are monster predator heterosexual Priests too. (hopefully not too many of those either but since the raw material for priests are human beings I’m sure the candidates potentially represent the full spectrum of human behavior, good and bad)

So it seems to me to be a question of proper screening.

Of course that still doesn’t solve the problem that even the best of us do things we shouldn’t sometimes.

 

[Lisa_N]

Steve well I actually agree with you more with respect to this thread than the gay “marriage” thread. I suspect the reason for the “concentration” of predatory homosexual priests that have caused scandal is partly the result of the apparent flood of heterosexual priests who left to marry in the 60s and 70s. It makes perfect sense that a heterosexual priest who was unable to keep the vow of chastity would choose to leave while the predatory homosexual priest could still maintain his (perverted) sex life and remain a priest where he had the benefits of this world. IOW he wasn’t giving up this part of his life and thus less of a hardship to remain. I know so many former priests who left to marry in this era, it’s no surprise to me that there is a higher percentage of homosexual priests who stayed behind. OTOH in no way do I believe most homosexual priests are predatory or are they pedophiles.

It does sound like some seminaries became very homosexually oriented and that went from the top down, therefore discouraging devoted heterosexuals from becoming priests. Like every other group, homosexuals are protective of their space and their lifestyle as it were, and would likely be either hostile or even attempt to seduce the heterosexuals. Then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as the more homosexuals in seminary, the more homosexual priests…do the math.

I think the Church IS facing this issue head on, both in seminary and in the parishes. Sadly it’s too late for many.

Lisa N

 

[miguel]

Steve Andersen:

I voted yes. Whether a priest is homo or heterosexual he is still supposed to be celibate so it would appear to my uninformed mind that the personal struggle to keep his vows would be the same…

Attraction to the opposite sex is not a disorder (i.e., a mental health issue). But SSA is. So I don’t think the struggle to keep the vow of celibacy is the same.

 

[e-catholic]

Since the CCC states that homosexuals are called to chastity, and the only way to achieve that is to live celebately, why then shouldn’t they be priests.

When we look at pedophiles outside of the church most are married men. The fact that a man abuses male children does not make him a homosexual, it makes him a pedophile. In the same way being a homosexual does not make you a pedophile, or more likely to be a pedophile. I think that we are assuming that if these abusive priests had not taken a vow of celibacy that they would be gay, but that doesn’t necessarily follow.

**

2358

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. [2359](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2359.htm’) Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **

 

[Neithan]

They should let married men be priests, like the Orthodox do. Would definitely help swell the ranks. I think that homosexuals should be allowed to be priests though… it doesn’t seem right to bar them from it if they are making a solemn vow to celibacy. Monk is a different matter… probably not a good idea.

 

[miguel]

e-catholic:

Since the CCC states that homosexuals are called to chastity, and the only way to achieve that is to live celebately, why then shouldn’t they be priests.

When we look at pedophiles outside of the church most are married men. The fact that a man abuses male children does not make him a homosexual, it makes him a pedophile. In the same way being a homosexual does not make you a pedophile, or more likely to be a pedophile. I think that we are assuming that if these abusive priests had not taken a vow of celibacy that they would be gay, but that doesn’t necessarily follow.

The empirical evidence as to why they shouldn’t be priests is available in the details of the clergy sex abuse scandal. Most of these cases were not true cases of pedophilia. Pedophilia involves young children (i.e., before adolescence). 80% of all victims were male, most of them were adolescents. Clearly, this is a homosexual problem as much as it is a statutory rape problem. The question is whether the CCC’s warning against “unjust discrimination” applies in this case. I think it is possible to treat homosexuals respectfully without necessarily extending ordination to them. And I think the Church is also justified in not ordaining men who have these kinds of mental health issues, especially now, with so much known about the kind of damage that can come from it.

 

[mercygate]

Neithan:

. . . I think that homosexuals should be allowed to be priests though… it doesn’t seem right to bar them from it if they are making a solemn vow to celibacy.

All those who have been guilty of abuse have made those solemn vows. The record shows that this is a problem population, and until we figure out a way to ascertain who are likely to keep their vows and who not, we need to put the brakes on . . .

 

[miguel]

mercygate:

All those who have been guilty of abuse have made those solemn vows. The record shows that this is a problem population, and until we figure out a way to ascertain who are likely to keep their vows and who not, we need to put the brakes on . . .

Yes. But what I think people keep missing in this is the Church’s complete teaching. They get part of it right…the part that homosexual acts are evil, and the part that chaste homosexuals are not in sin. But what they tend to forget is the part about the homosexual inclination itself being disordered. And clearly, forgetting that part has lead to serious trouble.

 

[Shoshana]

miguel:

Yes. But what I think people keep missing in this is the Church’s complete teaching. They get part of it right…the part that homosexual acts are evil, and the part that chaste homosexuals are not in sin. But what they tend to forget is the part about the homosexual inclination itself being disordered. And clearly, forgetting that part has lead to serious trouble.

I come from a diocese where we have had one case of abuse and this new bishop has zero tolerance for such abuse. The priest in question is defrocked…period. But, according to what my spiritual director says, (in my diocese) if there wasn’t any homosexual priests allowed, there would be no priests. So, in conclusion, priests who are homosexual can lead a chaste and holy life no different than any heterosexual priest.

But when it comes to pedophilia and pedestry, would that be a seperate illness, as it were? Many married men and fathers also prey on young children also, even into adolescence. Babies, just months old, are found to be raped. Would this illness be the same as what is experienced in the homosexual world? Can a heterosexual married man who rapes male/female children be the same as a homosexual who rapes a child who is only male? Is it the same illness, or in the same category at least? Just wondering…pathology is pathology. From what I understand, homosexuality is pathological.

But could there be just homosexuals who are just attracted to people of the same sex about the same age? And if that was the case, why can they not be ordained? Heterosexual priests would also be attracted to females at certain times in their lives and must combat their lust so as to remain pure and chaste.

And, ultimately, how would you weed out the real pedophiles? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_9_8.gif

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[fix]

e-catholic:

Since the CCC states that homosexuals are called to chastity, and the only way to achieve that is to live celebately, why then shouldn’t they be priests.

When we look at pedophiles outside of the church most are married men. The fact that a man abuses male children does not make him a homosexual, it makes him a pedophile. In the same way being a homosexual does not make you a pedophile, or more likely to be a pedophile. I think that we are assuming that if these abusive priests had not taken a vow of celibacy that they would be gay, but that doesn’t necessarily follow.

---

Can someone explain how a non homosexual would be sexually abusing someone of the same sex. 100% of the priests who had sex with teenage males were homosexual. The priest abuse scandal is about homosexuality. It is not about pedophelia. The abused were adolescent males, not children.

My answer is that homosexuals should be banned. When a heterosexual enters the seminary he gives up a good. When a homosexual enters he gives up an evil. The two situations are vastly different. Additionally, why should a heterosexual have to be in an environment where many are homosexual? Would we think it is a good idea to have female nuns living in close quaters with heterosexual male priest? Why is it ok for homosexual priests to live closely with same sex men??

 

[Brendan]

My objection to a canidate with homosexual tendencies is twofold.

1. • There is great near occaisions of sin. They will be living with many men, both in the seminary, and in rectories. The priestly life is difficult enough without having to deal with all the pressure.

2 - There are many more doubts as to the depth of the vocation. Is the man doing this because they have to be celibate anyway, might as well make the ‘best of it’.? That is pragmatism, not a calling.

 

[miguel]

Shoshana:

…But, according to what my spiritual director says, (in my diocese) if there wasn’t any homosexual priests allowed, there would be no priests.

This means that only homosexuals (in your diocese) have the priestly vocation. Ask your spiritual director if he/she has any data to back that up. I strongly doubt it.

Shoshana:
So, in conclusion, priests who are homosexual can lead a chaste and holy life no different than any heterosexual priest.

If the premise is faulty, so is the conclusion. Granted, it’s not impossible. But as I keep saying, we now unfortunately have plenty of empirical data about sex abuse by homosexual predators in the priesthood. That’s where you should make your conclusions, not on a clearly erroneous statement by one person.

Shoshana:
But when it comes to pedophilia and pedestry, would that be a seperate illness, as it were?.. Would this illness be the same as what is experienced in the homosexual world?

One thing we can all agree on hopefully, is that we don’t want pedophiles, of any stripe, in the priesthood. And every effort should be made to screen them out before ordination. To answer your question, certainly one can’t assume that all homosexuals will be pedophiles. But it also doesn’t make sense to think that pedophilia, when it involves male abusers of male children, is completely unrelated to homosexuality. But regardless of the various opinions on this, we have hard data on which to base policy. It would be the height of folly to ignore it.

 

[Shoshana]

space ghost:

yes mamm… sheese…

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu:8050/agexed/leap/aee535/discipline.jpg

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_19_3.gifSG, you did it again! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_108.gif

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[Marie]

No!

 

[monica_fan]

I realize that not all homosexuals act on their inclinations or are phedophiles but I don’t think it’s worth the risk to allow them to be priests. A message needs to be sent that phedophilia will no longer be tolerated.

 

[buffalo]

fix:

Can someone explain how a non homosexual would be sexually abusing someone of the same sex. 100% of the priests who had sex with teenage males were homosexual. The priest abuse scandal is about homosexuality. It is not about pedophelia. The abused were adolescent males, not children.

My answer is that homosexuals should be banned. When a heterosexual enters the seminary he gives up a good. When a homosexual enters he gives up an evil. The two situations are vastly different. Additionally, why should a heterosexual have to be in an environment where many are homosexual? Would we think it is a good idea to have female nuns living in close quaters with heterosexual male priest? Why is it ok for homosexual priests to live closely with same sex men??

Fix, you are correct. A fact that the media neatly suppressed as it would interfere with their pro-gay agenda.

 

[katherine2]

To rpeat myself, I say “Bring it on”. Any real effort to keep out gays will have the side benefit of keeping out these rigid, complusive, reactionary types we don’t need either.

*But more to the point, the question should be, what steps should the Church take?

As applicants to check off either gay or straight? Go ahead.

Subject seminiarians to psychological tests. Liberals will have no problems with that. These tests end up “falsely passing” men who are comfortable with their homosexual orientation while “falsely failing” the rigid, tightly wound types that liberals most worry about being ordained.

I say, bring it on!!!*

 

[fix]

katherine2:

To rpeat myself, I say “Bring it on”. Any real effort to keep out gays will have the side benefit of keeping out these rigid, complusive, reactionary types we don’t need either.

But more to the point, the question should be, what steps should the Church take?

As applicants to check off either gay or straight? Go ahead.

*Subject seminiarians to psychological tests. Liberals will have no problems with that. These tests end up “falsely passing” men who are comfortable with their homosexual orientation while “falsely failing” the rigid, tightly wound types that liberals most worry about being ordained. *

I say, bring it on!!!

Perhaps you can explain what you mean in a more clear fashion?

Decent, normal heterosexual men are denied entrance to seminaries now by sodomites and other liberated types who are the gate keepers. The Vatican needs to bring the hammer down on these hard leftist dissenters now!

 

[katherine2]

fix:

The Vatican needs to bring the hammer down on these hard leftist dissenters now!

its the right wingers you have to worry about. When they start applying psycological tests to applicants to weed out homosexuals, it weeds out the rigid reactionaries they favor. The result is they have no nerve to utilize these tests.