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Rosebud77
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Delusions? Humble?
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Rosebud77
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StudentMI
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And for what? Again, this screams personal fault on the part of your child because they had homosexual feelings. What priest would give you such advice? Would Pope Francis? Or Pope Benedict?
What if they discover 10 years from now that orientation is biologically determined? Keep in mind, such a discovery would in no way contradict Catholic teaching. What would you say to your kid?
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victrolatim
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This seems a bit outlandish. Have there been surveys or studies done? I know in the case of my friend he simply enjoys the spiritual richness of the EF, he has no issue with Vatican II or the Novus Ordo “faulting him for being homosexual”.
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michael7777
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The guy that I know who used to struggle with habitual homosexuality. This was a huge problem for him. His parents put him in a Catholic boarding school once they found out he had homosexual sex. He greatly struggled with it again when he went to college and graduate school. Then when he got out of graduate school for a few more years he still greatly struggled with it, then he went back to confession and Sunday mass, and the homosexual problem went totally away. He practiced daily prayer, Sunday mass, and a very penitential work life. So yes, this problem can be overcome, as all sexual sins can be overcome. So, yes, I would do the same for my child. This guy lives a very happy marriage and completely lives without any mortal sin. He lives in constant sanctifying grace and is an extremely great, loving, and successfully holy guy. I really love him. He has been a role model for me in chastity and how to live as a man. He is awesome! He probably would have went on with his homosexual behaviors had his parents not intervened and put him Catholic boarding school. He really has been free from any mortal sin for 30 years!!!
Read the link to my posts on prayer and chastity that are a few posts back from this one.
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at9009
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There is a lot in here to talk over but let me first recommend to you a few good reading sources. First I highly recommend “Washed and Waiting” by Wesley Hill. I also recommend the blog spiritualfriendship.com. One good article from there is this spiritualfriendship.org/2015/09/26/always-consider-the-person-homosexuality-in-the-family/.
You also say people aren’t born homosexual. I wrote this on possible and current research regarding the etiology of same sex attraction: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1049505 see the 2nd post in the thread. Additionally, we live in a broken world and because of that people have all kinds of disordered desires, illnesses, and other manifestations of the fall. It is not that unreasonable for the possibility that for some, this manifests as same sex attracted. We know it does not matter the etiology of the attraction, in Catholic teaching, same sex sexual acts are always objectively disordered. This attempt to draw the line n the sand of it being impossible to be congenital in a broken and fallen world is a useless and honestly waste of time as the acts are always wrong in our teaching regardless of the cause.
Your posts still seem to suggest some fault to the gay person for their attraction. We are all broken by the fall and not at guilt for what we are tempted by but are accountable for how we respond to our temptations. There is also no promise that those temptations will be removed this side of heaven. What we are promised is support and stength from the holy spirit that we will be able to withstand those temptations and by the grace of God have access to confession when we fall. I could talk longer but hope some of this is a helpful counter perspective. I apologize for any typos as this was via my phone.
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michael7777
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And another thing, people put their kids in treatment centers even today for smoking marijuana. And most priests consider that a venial sin, it is not, it is mortal. But seriously, parents today still do that. So what is the problem with disciplining your child for homosexual sins. Parents require treatment for substance abuse, but not for sexual sins, cause somehow saying sexual sins are bad puts a limit on their rights and pursuit of pleasure. Can’t say anything is wrong with sexual sins… No that would be against the child’s rights, huh??? What kind of garbage and totally messed up thinking is this.
In the famous study on sexual behavior in 1914 (they made a movie about the study a few years back), says 87% of women were virgins until marriage, and 93% of women only had sex with their husbands in their lifetime. People obviously used to live very chaste just a hundred years ago, so chastity is possible for the society at large. The roaring 1920’s happened and the 1960’s with sexual revolution completely changed people’s morality on sex. In 1914, 99% of people believed pre-marital sex was wrong, today 99% of people believe there is nothing wrong with pre-marital sex. What is wrong with people? People think now we have to accept homosexuality too? Let’s get our Catholic moral compass, back on track. *** Pray the daily rosary for chastity for the whole world.***
Look at this site too, it comes from a Harvard graduated doctor in psychiatry… purityispossible.com
Thank you At9009 for your comments, and website links.
In the famous study on sexual behavior in 1914 (they made a movie about the study a few years back), says 87% of women were virgins until marriage, and 93% of women only had sex with their husbands in their lifetime. People obviously used to live very chaste just a hundred years ago, so chastity is possible for the society at large. The roaring 1920’s happened and the 1960’s with sexual revolution completely changed people’s morality on sex. In 1914, 99% of people believed pre-marital sex was wrong, today 99% of people believe there is nothing wrong with pre-marital sex. What is wrong with people? People think now we have to accept homosexuality too? Let’s get our Catholic moral compass, back on track. *** Pray the daily rosary for chastity for the whole world.***
Look at this site too, it comes from a Harvard graduated doctor in psychiatry… purityispossible.com
Thank you At9009 for your comments, and website links.
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at9009
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An article to read: spiritualfriendship.org/2013/08/09/celibacy-and-healing/
Excerpt :
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Other articles:
spiritualfriendship.org/2014/12/16/on-the-expectation-of-change/
spiritualfriendship.org/2014/02/01/honesty-about-orientation-change/
spiritualfriendship.org/2013/09/24/orientation-change-vs-mixed-orientation-marriage/
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StudentMI
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What is habitual homosexuality? You mean he was promiscuous? That is not something called habitual homosexuality as that presumes he had a choice to experience homosexual feelings.
What is the homosexual problem? You mean he completely lost any homosexual attraction? Get some scientists on the phone as he is a landmark case in science and deserves to be studied! Unless you mean he stopped acting on homosexual attraction which is different. Or does he claim that he lost that attraction? Because if so, call the press! Or is he just claiming he did as so many exposed cases have done before?
And he lives without mortal sin? You know this how? Did God tell you so?
Please answer me this. Do you think Pope Francis would advise putting a gay young man in a boarding school or military academy just for having homosexual feelings?
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billcu1
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I don’t get that myself at all. That he’s making anything personal.
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billcu1
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Ask the father for the grace of “cleanliness”. “Create in me a clean heart”. If done in a proper way such as within the “name of our lord Jesus”. I will be done, when done. Goes for anything “sexual”.
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michael7777
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Student MI,
Pax Domini, +
It is true that being simply attracted to the same sex is not a sin. By habitual homosexuality I meant that he repeatedly sinfully coveted (desired to possess) men sexually, and that he sinfully repeatedly lusted (had sexual pleasure visually and in his mind and heart) after men, he also had homosexual sex. That was repeatedly done and he had a strong inclination to such behaviors. I am sure he is still attracted to men, but doesn’t sexually desire them nor have sexual pleasure looking at them, and he definitely doesn’t have homosexual sex so there is no sin in that regard. I know this man very well, he never does anything gravely sinful. I am not his confessor, but I would think I would know if he did, I can’t tell you how I know…, but just trust me I know this man very well.
Look, I can guarantee you it is possible to live without any sexual sin, cause I have done it for many years with my heterosexual sinful problems. Scientist would say too, that if you don’t masturbate, well you will have pollution in your dreams. This is not true, I didn’t have a pollution in my dreams for 10 years. Today’s secular scientist are unchastely sinful themselves and don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to living chaste, they want people to think it is impossible to live perfectly chaste, and if you do they say chastity is unhealthy, which is a lie. Ad Jesum per Mariam, Michael.
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StudentMI
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You didn’t answer my question. Do you really think Pope Francis would advice throwing a kid into boarding school for being gay?
Also, pollution in dreams? Fr Benedict Groeschel, one of my biggest influences in the spiritual life, wrote in his great book The Courage to Be Chaste, about such things and he said they were a natural bodily function. I think he even may have said they were a gift from God, as long as they were not perversely sought after.
I hate to say so, but if you don’t have children, I hope you don’t if you have the mindset that you would throw them into boarding or military schools for a fault they could not help. This is the kind of judging Pope Francis spoke of when he said who am I to judge? You said if your children were gay you would do so. What if they were straight?
Judge me if you want, but boarding schools and military schools have always been the cruel choice of parents who can’t be bothered. Blame my blue collar roots where parents actually raised their kids.
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Rosebud77
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Also when they speak of boarding schools… were there not real problems with many such? I know there were in the UK. And here in ireland/
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michael7777
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You say somethings like it is not their choice to be homosexual, you mention it is not their choice to have homosexual feelings. What do you mean by homosexual feelings? Do you mean lust or covetousness? Those are choices of the free will, those sins are full of choices that are full of ingratitude, evil, and presumption and direct disobedience to God, it is saying “I will not serve you God, I prefer sin over you God.” That is a choice. No one makes me sin, biology certainly doesn’t make me sin. See, if it wasn’t a choice then it the Catholic Church would not call them sins. These sins like all sins are a choice. No one makes me do them, biology certainly doesn’t cause me to lust or covet, biology doesn’t make me have sex, that is a free choice. I freely choose to not have heterosexual sex, and I also freely choose to not have homosexual sex. All that is a choice. Do you think you don’t have a choice??? Now that being said, I think our free will is not as free as most people think it is. It takes grace to get out of inclinations to sin and on the road to holiness. But, that too is a choice, I can choose to go to God or not. All that involves a choice. Yes, grace does lead one to choose God, but it is still a choice.
I would probably homeschool my children if I had any. I would definitely choose homeschool over boarding school. That too would be my choice, and you would have no right to infringe on it, lol! Someone who doesn’t parent their children away from sexual sins, that goes for all sexual sins, but especially one as absolutely evil as homosexuality is not being a good parent. See, I wouldn’t want my child to go to hell, I would want them to go to heaven. A person who lives the homosexual lifestyle, having tons of homosexual sex is seriously gravely sinning.
There was a study, I am sure you are familiar with already. It said that the number of homosexual partners a homosexual has in their lifetime was 300. Some have 500 partners and the bottom 10% only have 100 partners in their lifetime. That is a major sexually disordered problem. And homosexual marriages don’t work either, 99% end up in divorce or they have plural sex partners in marriage. Gay men never want a truly monogamous homosexual marriage, they want tons of other sexual partners, well cause that sin is hugely disordered and it doesn’t work out for them.
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michael7777
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I guarantee you Pope Francis if he had a child would absolutely not let his child act out with homosexual sins, no way he would. He would either homeschool or send them off to boarding school or military school. He would probably homeschool his children anyway if they were not gay. I personally would absolutely homeschool all my children whether they were gay or not, if my children were heterosexual I would still definitely make sure my wife stayed home and I would homeschool all my children, absolutely would do that. My wife would not work, she would stay home with the children and I would provide for the family as a man. And I would teach all my children how to live chaste, especially my boys. Boys need fathers to teach them how to be Catholic man, and yes, being Catholic means that you live chaste, live holy, and love God.
About your comment about pollution during dreams and Father Benedict G. well he doesn’t know what he is talking about, at least on this subject, if it really is true that he says pollution during a dream is a good thing or healthy or whatever you said. If you have the ability to choose to wake up during a dream to where you are conscious enough to choose to wake up, and it is a sexual dream, you should wake up before pollution occurs. Read Father Ripperger’s book on that, “Introduction to the Science of Mental Health” he says that pollution during a dream can be a mortal sin. I honestly can attest that I never had a pollution during my dream for ten years. So it is possible to not have pollution during dreams, ok. Do you agree it is possible? Or do you think I am lying? I am not lying, it is completely possible.
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michael7777
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All people need to live chastely, that is everybody whether homosexual or heterosexual. And yes homosexual (Sodomy) sex is a way bigger of a grave sin than heterosexual sex. I can objectively say so. I am not judging the culpability of the person in this sin, I am not saying that all homosexuals are going to hell, but yes a lot of them who don’t repent of the sin I am sure are. There will probably be more unrepentant sinful heterosexuals in hell than homosexuals, only cause there are more heterosexuals.
And another thing, I don’t really feel the need to discuss this any longer. Just encourage everyone to repent if they are in any grave sin and go to confession immediately and encourage these people to constantly pray and do penance, and go to mass as often as absolutely possible. And yes, we shouldn’t associate with bad company. I already explained fully what is considered bad company, that is anyone who is stubbornly unrepentant in grave sin, if these people don’t repent and if their Catholic if they don’t go to confession, well don’t be their friend. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be reasonably patient waiting for them to repent, but use discretion in how long to continue to have contact with them before you cut them off. Once they decide to repent well you can be their friend again. Sometimes you may need to break off friendship for a while, and after a period of time go back to them and encourage them to repent again if they haven’t done already/ Pray about it, do what is best for their souls and most especially yours. Bad company corrupts good morals, as the bible says. So obey it, severe yourself from all bad company and live holy yourself. You also absolutely have to severe yourself from people you sin with, if these people lead you sin and you do sin with them well then you have to severe your contact with them.
And another thing, I don’t really feel the need to discuss this any longer. Just encourage everyone to repent if they are in any grave sin and go to confession immediately and encourage these people to constantly pray and do penance, and go to mass as often as absolutely possible. And yes, we shouldn’t associate with bad company. I already explained fully what is considered bad company, that is anyone who is stubbornly unrepentant in grave sin, if these people don’t repent and if their Catholic if they don’t go to confession, well don’t be their friend. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be reasonably patient waiting for them to repent, but use discretion in how long to continue to have contact with them before you cut them off. Once they decide to repent well you can be their friend again. Sometimes you may need to break off friendship for a while, and after a period of time go back to them and encourage them to repent again if they haven’t done already/ Pray about it, do what is best for their souls and most especially yours. Bad company corrupts good morals, as the bible says. So obey it, severe yourself from all bad company and live holy yourself. You also absolutely have to severe yourself from people you sin with, if these people lead you sin and you do sin with them well then you have to severe your contact with them.
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michael7777
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There are multiple ways you can be an accessory to someone who is a homosexual sinner, even if you yourself are heterosexual. If you counsel them to have homosexual sex, well that is grave. Consenting to it, is grave. Just giving your consent to this horrible sin is a grave sin. If you command it, it is grave. If you praise or flatter their sin it is a grave sin yourself. If have provocation to the sin, it is grave.If you conceal their sin it is grave. By being silent in their homosexuality, that is grave. Also obviously if you partake in it, it is grave. And by defense of ill done is grave. There are nine ways to become an accessory to another’s sin according to Catholic teaching. Look this up on the internet. I think all those things would be hard to not do around my homosexual friends, so I just choose to not have anything to do with them. And that is only partly why I don’t want to be their friend. All those accessory to sins, also apply to people who are practicing any sin.
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michael7777
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I meant that the average number of homosexual partners a homosexual has is 300. That was what was in my college textbook, it is in Social Problems classes textbooks in college.
Here is just one website that lists some studies.
carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity
Here is just one website that lists some studies.
carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity
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Oneofthewomen
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I would like you to show me where, exactly, that the Catholic church teaches that homosexual sins are worse than any other sexual sin.
Any sin is bad, as it seperates us from God. Being a homosexual is difficult enough, and people who espouse horrible ideas like you make it even more difficult.
To be honest, I am not sure, as a heterosexual person, if I would want your friendship either.
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